Well, when the historical accuracy argument doesn't pan out, then some people say they play video games to escape real world politics (and the existence of people other than themselves).
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DICE - We will always put fun over authentic (Regarding Battlefield V compliants)
- Thread starter SantaC
- Start date
Where did I say I didn't want women in Battlefield? Reading comprehension a little tough is it?
*whispers as loud as a hurricane*
go play Verdun or something if you're looking for historical accuracy you have options as a consumer, use them~
go play Verdun or something if you're looking for historical accuracy you have options as a consumer, use them~
Just where have i said anything that suggests i have a problem with there being a woman in the game? I have absolutely no issue with that, it's disingenuous of you to think that after my posts have taken issue with the Katana and the jacket being shown in situations they are out of place in that i have a specific issue with there being a player female character in the game.
I remember when I got killed by some guy named xX420Blaz3rXx with an anime girl emblem running around with a kolibri pistol in BF1. Truly an authentic WW1 experience.
Why're you so willing to forgive the sins of past battlefield games in this regard, as their portrayals of war featured many elements that regardless of you specifically think, to any historian, is laughably out of place? There's genuinely no difference, (there are many accounts of soldiers using weapons that weren't standard in their specific army for instance, that's a thing that happened, so it's fair game).
User Banned (1 Week): Strawman arguments over sexism.
This is what this thread devolved into and it's sad. "I don't really think the tone lands very well with the setting-" "SEXIST RACIST IT'S VIDEOGAMES LULZ YOU BIGOT".
Yea battlefield has always placed fun before authenticity. Its why crazy stunts are a staple of the series since 1942. Nothing seeming out of place so far. Looking forward to seeing some extended gameplay in a couple weeks cause all these new elements sound great so far
God I haven't played a BF game since BF4 and I miss it so much every time I see something like this. This one is a given.
Katana was totally used to WWII, your friend's grandpa probably got killed by one.
Joking of course, what I meant is that there are definitely Americans killed by Katana back in WWII
"I don't think the tone lands very well with the setting despite not knowing much about history and I'm willing to forgive literally any other battlefield game except this one becuz reasons. Why am I suddenly so concerned about this BF game being surface level authentic like every other one? Can't really articulate why.. I just perceive it to be less authentic because reasons."
Because it's not even surface level authentic. It doesn't sell the illusion, at all.
You're no one to say anyone's opinion is wrong to themselves.
Incredible GIF.
Bring it on, DICE. I really hope they don't bend to this manufactured outrage, it's fucking ridiculous.
The thinly veiled sexism is palpable. Every day I find myself growing further apart from gaming because of ridiculous shit like this. Insufferable children, the lot.
i can't believe people are really complaining about this, but then again i can. it literally has *no effect* whatsoever on your gameplay experience if the characters and cover model is a woman. literally nothing changes.
Muh identity! Insecurity is a hell of a drug, my man.
It's really just insane. Delete the internet and start over.
Don't get upset when you make false statements and are corrected. Nobody was trying to "get you" just make sure the truth is being told.
they act like they came out and said "female characters will be twice as strong, twice as fast, and twice as durable as male avatars" that is the *only* way there should be ANY complaints about it lol
Not everyday you see someone complaining about strawmen by making a strawman.
I love the over-the-top nature of the trailer, and look forward to playing this game. I can see why some players would be upset about the "fun" though. I mean, you can jump out of jets, shoot other jets down, and land back in your jet ever since Battlefield 3 so it's not like being over the top hasn't been part of Battlefield for years now.
This absolutely is surface level authentic, it's the straight up definition of surface level authentic, this is what they present as what the play experience is:
but surely people will give a fuck that a person has a katana and that there's a woman on the battlefield in the middle of a heated multiplayer match.
Because that's next year.
Also here was a list of all of the changes that Jackfrags highlighted in his video that make this game sound great.
• Launch locations are France, Africa and Rottedam and North Africa desert
• Coop Mode called Combined Arms
• Single player War Stories return
• Fortifications are things like sand bags, trenches, tank stoppers. Only supports can build offensively defense fortifications such as machine guns, field cannons and are much faster at building everything.
• Predetermined areas to build such as at flags, can rebuild destroyed buildings
• Attrition system — health bar is in stages, only regen up to closet stage not to 100 anymore
• Physical interactions — every action in the game requires a player interact for things like medkits, spotting, ammo, ledge grabbing (example: healing requires walking over to a health pack, character animation to pick it up, then start healing)
• No more HUD/map spotting, spotting is based on movement/changes around you
• Attrition system — much less ammo on spawn, out of ammo after a few fights, but more ways to resupply ammo in the battlefield from packs, crates, or grabbing small amounts of ammo off of bodies (all requires physical interactions)
• Revive system has a full on animation, takes a few seconds to complete, no more revive trains, takes time to complete
• Ragdolls are server side, can now drag a downed player's body elsewhere
• Any class can do a squad revive, takes longer than a medic revive, does not give full health points
• Can call for help when down such as in the trailer
• Ragdolls (player bodies) effect the environment, push down grass etc.
• Gunplay completely changed
• No more visual recoil
• Each gun has a unique recoil pattern that can be learned and mastered
• Bipods easier to use and setup
• Bullet penetration through thin wood, sheet metal, walls
• Movement change, can now dive froward, backward, left and right similar to R6 Siege prone system
• Diving has a delay to prevent dolphin diving
• Crouch sprinting is in the game
• Can burst out of widows and commando roll, no destroying windows first
• Can catch, throwback or shoot grenades
• Less grenades because less ammo
• Can tow items in the game with vehicles such as previously stationary anti-air guns, teammate can use an anti-air gun while you tow it with a vehicle
• For example, can drive a tiger tank towing a field cannon behind it or a truck towing ammo crate to resupply teammates on the front line
• Destruction explodes inwards or outwards based on where the destruction happens. Throw a grenade inside of the building? The explosion sends things outside of it. Outside of it? Breaks inwards.
• Tank driving into a building slowly destroys a building, walls slowly crack/ fall, not instant
• Heavily focused on squad play, instant placed in squad when joining a game
• New squad spawning system, squad deploy system that shows what squad mates are doing in third person in real time before the tactical map screen, so spawning on squad is kicker than spawning on tactical map screen
• Since squad spawning/deploying is faster than tactical map, squad wipes are serious
• Squads accumulate points that can be spent on "squad call-ins", only squad leader can spend them in
• Squad Call-ins are V1 or JB2 rockets as seen in the trailer, supply drops with ammo/health, a smoke barrage, heavy weapon pickups (not hero kits), squad only vehicles such as Churchill crocodile flamethrower tank or the Sturm tiger
• Elite classes are gone
• Behemoths are gone
• Large, non-fatal explosions can knock a player over
• Four classes are back: assault, medic, scout, support
• Create a solider, add them to a company of soldiers, then can customize things like gender, face look, face paint, outfit, accessories, etc. and assign them a class archtype
• Class archetypes highly customizable
• Can be an assault that specializes in anti-tank or anti-infantry only, or a mix of both, etc.
• Highly specialized archetypes called exot-ics such as a recon paratrooper, stealthy short-range behind enemy lines person who uses a suppressed SMG and silent gadgets like pistols and garrotes comes with silent footsteps and throwing knives
• Can change and add specialization trees such as agility, flak armor, suppressive resistance
• The more you play a class more you get more specializations/archtypes within said class
• Coop Mode called Combined Arms
• Single player War Stories return
• Fortifications are things like sand bags, trenches, tank stoppers. Only supports can build offensively defense fortifications such as machine guns, field cannons and are much faster at building everything.
• Predetermined areas to build such as at flags, can rebuild destroyed buildings
• Attrition system — health bar is in stages, only regen up to closet stage not to 100 anymore
• Physical interactions — every action in the game requires a player interact for things like medkits, spotting, ammo, ledge grabbing (example: healing requires walking over to a health pack, character animation to pick it up, then start healing)
• No more HUD/map spotting, spotting is based on movement/changes around you
• Attrition system — much less ammo on spawn, out of ammo after a few fights, but more ways to resupply ammo in the battlefield from packs, crates, or grabbing small amounts of ammo off of bodies (all requires physical interactions)
• Revive system has a full on animation, takes a few seconds to complete, no more revive trains, takes time to complete
• Ragdolls are server side, can now drag a downed player's body elsewhere
• Any class can do a squad revive, takes longer than a medic revive, does not give full health points
• Can call for help when down such as in the trailer
• Ragdolls (player bodies) effect the environment, push down grass etc.
• Gunplay completely changed
• No more visual recoil
• Each gun has a unique recoil pattern that can be learned and mastered
• Bipods easier to use and setup
• Bullet penetration through thin wood, sheet metal, walls
• Movement change, can now dive froward, backward, left and right similar to R6 Siege prone system
• Diving has a delay to prevent dolphin diving
• Crouch sprinting is in the game
• Can burst out of widows and commando roll, no destroying windows first
• Can catch, throwback or shoot grenades
• Less grenades because less ammo
• Can tow items in the game with vehicles such as previously stationary anti-air guns, teammate can use an anti-air gun while you tow it with a vehicle
• For example, can drive a tiger tank towing a field cannon behind it or a truck towing ammo crate to resupply teammates on the front line
• Destruction explodes inwards or outwards based on where the destruction happens. Throw a grenade inside of the building? The explosion sends things outside of it. Outside of it? Breaks inwards.
• Tank driving into a building slowly destroys a building, walls slowly crack/ fall, not instant
• Heavily focused on squad play, instant placed in squad when joining a game
• New squad spawning system, squad deploy system that shows what squad mates are doing in third person in real time before the tactical map screen, so spawning on squad is kicker than spawning on tactical map screen
• Since squad spawning/deploying is faster than tactical map, squad wipes are serious
• Squads accumulate points that can be spent on "squad call-ins", only squad leader can spend them in
• Squad Call-ins are V1 or JB2 rockets as seen in the trailer, supply drops with ammo/health, a smoke barrage, heavy weapon pickups (not hero kits), squad only vehicles such as Churchill crocodile flamethrower tank or the Sturm tiger
• Elite classes are gone
• Behemoths are gone
• Large, non-fatal explosions can knock a player over
• Four classes are back: assault, medic, scout, support
• Create a solider, add them to a company of soldiers, then can customize things like gender, face look, face paint, outfit, accessories, etc. and assign them a class archtype
• Class archetypes highly customizable
• Can be an assault that specializes in anti-tank or anti-infantry only, or a mix of both, etc.
• Highly specialized archetypes called exot-ics such as a recon paratrooper, stealthy short-range behind enemy lines person who uses a suppressed SMG and silent gadgets like pistols and garrotes comes with silent footsteps and throwing knives
• Can change and add specialization trees such as agility, flak armor, suppressive resistance
• The more you play a class more you get more specializations/archtypes within said class
Eden, unless you're sitting in a tent for 10 days nursing an infection from gunshot wound to the ass, it isn't even surface level authentic, you know thisThis absolutely is surface level authentic:
This absolutely is surface level authentic:
It is... But until DICE shows a trailer like their old ones, everyone will continue with "This doesn't look authentic".
It will literally take 1 trailer to change everyones opinion. I guarantee it.
Well at least until on a woman comes on screen. Because when that happens, it's time to whip out the concern about THE ERASURE OF HISTORY IN MY MULTIPLAYER MATCH!!!
I hope you're right, because this game sounds a lot more fun than Battlefield 1 turned out to be for me. But agendas have a way of getting in the way, and now that something of a hate train has started I'm not sure what's going to happen.
The funny (in a depressing way) part about the "authenticity" argument is that it shows just how disturbingly narrow and ill-informed peoples' image of history is, and just how damaging it is that they can look at any prior WW2 Battlefield or Call of Duty game and claim there has ever been a modicum of success at achieving that realism. It's like these games are literally their only education on something like this.
LMAO its not false, EA took down Gamespots trailer becaues the dislikes were far greater then likes bud.
I seriously cannot believe people are still arguing about authentication in this game.. Seriously people?
There were sharks jumping out of the last two games. I guarantee people didnt come in into war with crossbows, bow and arrows with gas tips. There weren't people dressed in full metal plates that ran around with a huge lmg.
"There weren't any women fighting in WWII"
"Actually yes there was. Here's some examples of some actual famous badass women in the war"
"But this woman was British!! So your reasoning doesn't count"
People need to get over themselves.
There were sharks jumping out of the last two games. I guarantee people didnt come in into war with crossbows, bow and arrows with gas tips. There weren't people dressed in full metal plates that ran around with a huge lmg.
"There weren't any women fighting in WWII"
"Actually yes there was. Here's some examples of some actual famous badass women in the war"
"But this woman was British!! So your reasoning doesn't count"
People need to get over themselves.
This is the best looking / sounding BATTLEFIELD game since Bad Company 2... They are reverting back to a team play styled game with some huge improvements. This is the game the fans have been waiting for, for a very long time.
Even if people don't buy it on release (fans will), people will jump onboard once everyone starts posting about how amazing it is. This game is going to sell like hot-cakes.
This BF V trailer looks like their previous BF MP trailers, just way more scripted.
There's a big difference. They're on two entirely separate levels.
The Battlefield series has always taken some artistic liberties in the way things have been portrayed. In BF1 the Sentry with the MG08 running around wouldn't have occurred in WW1. The weapon options had a large amount of prototypes. The term Panzer wasn't used during WW1. Aircraft-mounted rocket guns weren't carried around. With the games like BF4 real-life soldiers don't use any weapon they like in a pre-defined Battlefield while aimlessly running around on their own or in small groups driving or piloting whatever they want while fighting over arbitrarily placed flags. Those are all things included in the games that are unrealistic, inaccurate and ahistorical - they simply are not things that fit in with a true portrayal of their chosen setting. The difference is in how they are integrated into whatever setting the game goes for and the extent to which they fit in with a consistent theme.
Despite those issues the games still always showed their settings in a serious manner, outside of gameplay and silly things as the result of player agency. Battlefield One was still a gritty, atmosphere portrayal of a WW1-based setting, Battlefield 4 still had a noticeable underlying basis of being a Modern-day themed setting despite the plot and locations and such being fictional. The way they realized those settings and the effect the inconsistencies with realism or accuracy had on them is at a whole different level with Battlefield V from what we've seen of it so far.
In those previous games, the issues were not as noticeable on a surface level. They were not an aspect of the game that had been specifically implemented with disregard to the theming of the game and maintaining the feeling of a consistent setting. Despite being unrealistic in how they were put into the game, it all still felt like it had a place - the Sentry with MG08 didn't exist in that form, but he still felt like something from WW1, the gasmasks were entirely different fro WW1 era gasmasks but they weren't some obvious out of place design, the Char B1 tank despite not being made or used in WW1 still matched the theme and tone of the setting the game was going for. Regardless of those ahistorical inclusions in the game, it still maintained a consistent feeling of being the setting it was claiming to be, outside of the decisions like regenerating health or reviving palyers which were for the sake of it being a video game. The Battlefield games up until now have always been this way, realizing their settings in a way that come across as a believable abstract of the setting they try to be, they've all felt grounded within that theme in aesthetic and tone.
The games always made an effort to integrate those things which didn't quite fit the theme in a way that made them feel like they fit the theme. Reviving players instant makes no sense in terms of accuracy, but they still used the equipment that would have been available at the time. Repair tools don't magically fix vehicles, but they still looked like their real-world counterpart and made sense with the theme. Ammo or medical boxes don't cause those things to spontaneously appear, but they still matched something you'd expect from the time period. BF3 or BF4 or BC2 had planes and helicopters that didn't behave in the slightest like real versions would, but they still looked, sounded and had equipment that would make sense. The unforms would be similar to those worn at the time. The camouflage or vehicle colours aren't outlandish and brightly coloured. The weapons that are chosen to be in the game are from the time period and have relevance to the setting. The Battlefield series has always made a big attempt to make sure that even when things that don't accuracy fit a setting are included, they are still authentic feeling to that setting. Those things didn't always make sense, but they weren't shoved into the game with disregard for keeping a consistent, cohesive theme. Any historical liberties taken were integrated into the theme in a way that was at the very least an attempt to make them fit and had a justification for not being entirely correct.
That isn't the case with the BFV trailer. Those in-authentic elements are now front-and-centre. They're no longer integrated into the theme in a way that feels like they complement and are something that adds to the overall feeling, it's the oppisite - they now detract from the feeling of having that WW2 theme. By all means give players customization options, but it should still be done in a way that doesn't take away from realizing that setting. Give a Soldier playing on a map set in the Pacific a Katana or one in Normandy a more fitting type of sword, give a pilot character a flight jacket or have characters in Africa shirtless or in tank tops, or let players choose a variety of different camoflage, smocks, pouches etc. By all means do that sort of thing in the game, but do some in a way that still fits the setting and theming and is not out of place in the context given. Don't just give a katana to a British commando in Normandy for some reason. Don't just have a character with a biker jacket show up. Don't just shove these things into somewhere that it knowingly does not fit the theme to the extent that it'll feel extremely out of place even if it is something from the time period. Again, put the effort into making it feel like it fits, rather than having been thrown ontop with disregard for keeping a consistent feel, do it in a meaningful, nuanced way rather than something that's so apparent as being against the settings cohesion.
It's a bigger problem than those inconsistencies in previous games because of how it very clearly is jarring in the context the game is going for and how there has been little or no attempt to adhere to the theme with their inclusion. Rather than the usual approach of taking something that might not quite fit but then making it still feel like it fits with the rest of the games setting, this time it's done in a way that dillutes the overall consistency and claims of being the setting it tries to portray. It's simply down to the amount of these things being done in this way making the theme of the game feel like it isn't there, like it's gone from "This is a WW2-themed game" with a certain level of abstraction to portray the setting at, to just a mix of all sorts of different things from the time without context or even an attempt at fitting them into the overall theme - it's just "This existed? It must fit then!".
As said many times, these things fit the broad context of WW2. The Prosthetic exists, the Katana was used in WW2, there were jackets like that - but the fact that they existed in itself does not mean they have been integrated into the games chosen setting in a way that doesn't detract from it. The historical liberties and inconsistencies regarding the customization system are this time without the gameplay reasons for being like that, without the player agency that results in things like standing ontop of vehicles as they move and without the attempt to at least make it feels like it fits the context they're shown in.
The games have never been realistic, accurate or an entirely perfect portrayal of their chosen setting, but they have shown their setting in a way that at least wanted to try to represent it in a way that looked and felt serious. The tone and atmosphere of them and what was included in them for the most part still matched what it was trying to be.
That isn't the case with the trailer. It overall lacks a cohesive representation of the setting, that's why it's different - it goes well beyond the typical way the out-of-place things are done, to the point the setting doesn't quite feel like it's taken seriously.
that post on /v/ that's been circling around actually said BF is their source of education on the war
oh and CoD
lmao
They're not noticeable here either, this is the surface level WW2 shootbang vidya game:
At the end of the day:
Regarding the rest of your post, this sums it up well:
All these claims about the franchise's "seriousness" go out the window once the gameplay starts. You are asking for window dressing, and frankly unearned window dressing. Just because they presented themselves in the past with a grim face doesn't mean they were anything but hollow power fantasies. The ony change now is they've seemingly abandoned that pretense.
For example, even with it's cutscenes and core gameplay. BF1 completely misrepresents what warfare looked like at the time:
Why? Because a 32vs32 MP match where you sit down and wait in trenches for weeks isn't very "fun."
Those few seconds of "gameplay" seemingly meant to represent characters closer to generic NPCs doesn't change that the ones meant to be obvious player characters are much more noticable with how out of place things are.
Again, another post missing that authenticity and realism/accuracy are two separate things.
This part specifically is so patently untrue it hurts btw. If this feels like something from WW1 then please go retake your history courses.
This isn't grounded, or believable, this is completely over the top. And completely at odds with the theming of the game and the costs of war and the things it does to people.For every sad music cue paired with a mournful expression, there are at least twenty elements that contradict the theme. Stop being disingenuous.
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