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Rolento

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,527
well it's more like... aside from a series of combat boxes where you fight stuff and bosses, I don't have a good idea of what the general... vibe of the game is yet

On the other hand I do have 2d versions of like 3 different platinum char-action mechanics which i am very happy with

anyway, i'm slowly grasping towards something i think

/edit oh, but got a link to a portfolio?

http://wolfofvictoria.com/

no pressure, just thought i'd offer.


That (ship?) design is lovely! I'm liking the colors.

Thanks ^_^

If anyone is in need of some poster art for promoting their game, if I have the time I would love to make art even if it's mostly just fan-art. I'd rather be doing fan art for smaller games than ones that already have stacks of art made for them in fandom.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Right now I'm trying to figure out snapping colors to their nearest equivalent from a palette.

If you need them to snap to a specific palette, I'm afraid with my very limited shader knowledge I have no clue how one would go around to doing that efficiently with a shader; intuitively you would need to use at least one if / branch per palette color (to select the closest one), and branches are expensive on shaders. On the other hand, it would also be intuitive to me that one would also need multiple ifs for e.g. palette swapping, but I'd be wrong: you can actually do it without any:
https://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.co...-dynamically-swap-a-sprites-colors--cms-25129
In any case, if it's acceptable as an option, it'd be considerably easier (and more efficient) to simply snap colors using a formula rather than an actual palette. Here, for example, the first post's shader simply snaps the R, G and B values to increments of 0.25.
https://forum.unity.com/threads/the-most-simplistic-fake-toon-shader.108431/

So tl:dr;
- I don't know how to snap to a palette without using if's, but this doesn't mean it can't be done, as I'm pretty noob myself (someone who's a shader guru would be very helpful here).
- Snapping to a palette using if's is possible, but likely inefficient because of how shaders work.
- Snapping using a formula (e.g. snap to closest arbitrary step for each color channel) is trivial and far more efficient, but might not be what you want.
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
If you need them to snap to a specific palette, I'm afraid with my very limited shader knowledge I have no clue how one would go around to doing that efficiently with a shader; intuitively you would need to use at least one if / branch per palette color (to select the closest one), and branches are expensive on shaders. On the other hand, it would also be intuitive to me that one would also need multiple ifs for e.g. palette swapping, but I'd be wrong: you can actually do it without any:
https://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.co...-dynamically-swap-a-sprites-colors--cms-25129
In any case, if it's acceptable as an option, it'd be considerably easier (and more efficient) to simply snap colors using a formula rather than an actual palette. Here, for example, the first post's shader simply snaps the R, G and B values to increments of 0.25.
https://forum.unity.com/threads/the-most-simplistic-fake-toon-shader.108431/

So tl:dr;
- I don't know how to snap to a palette without using if's, but this doesn't mean it can't be done, as I'm pretty noob myself (someone who's a shader guru would be very helpful here).
- Snapping to a palette using if's is possible, but likely inefficient because of how shaders work.
- Snapping using a formula (e.g. snap to closest arbitrary step for each color channel) is trivial and far more efficient, but might not be what you want.
It's not that hard. You can just use a texture as a color look-up table. Take something like the image below, convert it down to your palette, and then use the .rgb values of your unconverted color as texcoords to find something on the LUT.

S42aa.png
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
It's not that hard. You can just use a texture as a color look-up table. Take something like the image below, convert it down to your palette, and then use the .rgb values of your unconverted color as texcoords to find something on the LUT.

S42aa.png

Oh, ingenious!
I'm trying to think how the RGB values map to the XY (UV) of the texture above. From observation it seems something like Y = B + G/8, X = R/8. I'm not seeing a lot of difference between the left and right cells by eyeballing it (what would be the base X value).
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
Oh, ingenious!
I'm trying to think how the RGB values map to the XY (UV) of the texture above. From observation it seems something like Y = B + G/8, X = R/8. I'm not seeing a lot of difference between the left and right cells by eyeballing it (what would be the base X value).
Blue is ascending from left-to-right and then top-to-bottom, so you have to do a bit of modulus.

X = R/8 + (floor(B*64)%8)/8
Y = G/8 + floor(B*8)/8
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Ah, I see! Blue's least significant bits being the ones governing left to right was nearly impossible to spot by eye :).
Alternatively, I guess you could simply reformat the texture to be a long strip to save on some of the calculations (although most of them can be done as bitwise shifting).

Pretty awesome insight in any case, thanks a lot! Slamtastic, do you think you could implement this on your own? If not I'll give it a try tomorrow.
 
Oct 27, 2017
262
This discussion of changing palettes at runtime using shaders is very relevant to my interests! I'm still torn between attempting this approach (which means learning about shaders, but is probably a cleaner way of doing it) or pre-baking the colours into textures made during the procgen stage (no overhead at all during gameplay, but could be fiddly and time-consuming when generating the world).

For now, I've replaced the sample colours with Endesga 32 (or rather, Weltall Zero did and I shamelessly appropriated it). However, I realised that the only way to make the doors (and stairs) large enough is to increase the size that each "block" in the room layout represents.

Originally this was 24x24, or 3x3 tiles:

Icnmfwq.png


I've had to adjust it to 32x32, or 4x4 tiles:

HywSt40.png


Aside from the door size, this has some advantages and disadvantages. It means the edges will need to be handled a bit differently for the upper and lower floors, so the routine for converting the room layout into a full-size room will be more complicated. However, it has the huge advantage that the multiple for the floor tiles is better, so the edge pattern looks the same all the way around.

Here it is without the lines:

YrSQM6f.png


I got feedback that the floor is a little boring because the material isn't clear, so I'll try at some point to add a bit of edge lighting/shading to them to make it look more like tiles. It also needs to look weathered/cracked sometimes, but I'm putting that way down the to-do list because I have a lot of other temp art to create.

I have a slight concern that the walls look a bit less even/regular now that I've adjusted the width and redrawn the lines, but I don't know how much of this is in my head...
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
This discussion of changing palettes at runtime using shaders is very relevant to my interests! I'm still torn between attempting this approach (which means learning about shaders, but is probably a cleaner way of doing it) or pre-baking the colours into textures made during the procgen stage (no overhead at all during gameplay, but could be fiddly and time-consuming when generating the world).

For now, I've replaced the sample colours with Endesga 32 (or rather, Weltall Zero did and I shamelessly appropriated it). However, I realised that the only way to make the doors (and stairs) large enough is to increase the size that each "block" in the room layout represents.

Originally this was 24x24, or 3x3 tiles:

Icnmfwq.png


I've had to adjust it to 32x32, or 4x4 tiles:

HywSt40.png


Aside from the door size, this has some advantages and disadvantages. It means the edges will need to be handled a bit differently for the upper and lower floors, so the routine for converting the room layout into a full-size room will be more complicated. However, it has the huge advantage that the multiple for the floor tiles is better, so the edge pattern looks the same all the way around.

Here it is without the lines:

YrSQM6f.png


I got feedback that the floor is a little boring because the material isn't clear, so I'll try at some point to add a bit of edge lighting/shading to them to make it look more like tiles. It also needs to look weathered/cracked sometimes, but I'm putting that way down the to-do list because I have a lot of other temp art to create.

I have a slight concern that the walls look a bit less even/regular now that I've adjusted the width and redrawn the lines, but I don't know how much of this is in my head...
It's come a long way. I really like where it's at right now.
 

Lady Bow

Member
Nov 30, 2017
11,308
Pretty happy with how my next racing character is turning out! Still need to figure out a name for this Ghost Knight.

beIHC26.png


B7ovWzo.png
 

Deleted member 37679

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 7, 2018
41
I finally started a project again after becoming father.
As I still don't have the time, focus and nerves to release another VR Project, I thought "Why don't you make that old idea of yours"

So far my time management comes along pretty well and it feels amazing doing games again. My brain is coming back!

Doesn't look like much for you guys, but I didn' expect to get this far in just a few days.

At first I am generating a tile grid in which every tile is sending linecasts from every side to check for neighbors
01_grid.PNG


The game itself spawns meshes at the tile map I created before and marks every tile with its coordinates and if they re a "wall" (rather edqe) or "floor" tile.

02_grid.PNG

03_grid.PNG


Now its time for proper character movement
 

Jump_Button

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,787
Ok so if someone could hold me down and tell me to not go to far with this fast port i was doing, hat be a big help :/

 

blacktout

Member
Jan 16, 2018
1,209
This is kind of a depressing question to ask, but it's been nagging at me and I don't really know where else to turn for an answer: how do you guys know when it's time to give up on a project?

I've been working on a visual novel project with a couple of friends for a few months now, and ... I'm just not sure if it's going anywhere. We put together a playable demo/prologue and put it up on itch.io and even got a shockingly positive write-up in Waypoint. But we also tried to launch a Kickstarter with an extremely low funding goal that went down in flames hilariously, and I'm not sure if there will ever be enough real interest in the game to justify completing it.

I guess that's the kind of thing that shouldn't matter. This is a passion project after all, so maybe I need to look inside and see whether or not I want to move forward and to hell with whether there's an audience or not. But sometimes it feels like I'm screaming into the void, you know? And I'm just not sure if I need to suck it up and keep going or let go and move on.

Anyway, sorry to rant. Guess I'm just looking for guidance from people with more experience.
 

Minamu

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,900
Sweden
This is kind of a depressing question to ask, but it's been nagging at me and I don't really know where else to turn for an answer: how do you guys know when it's time to give up on a project?

I've been working on a visual novel project with a couple of friends for a few months now, and ... I'm just not sure if it's going anywhere. We put together a playable demo/prologue and put it up on itch.io and even got a shockingly positive write-up in Waypoint. But we also tried to launch a Kickstarter with an extremely low funding goal that went down in flames hilariously, and I'm not sure if there will ever be enough real interest in the game to justify completing it.

I guess that's the kind of thing that shouldn't matter. This is a passion project after all, so maybe I need to look inside and see whether or not I want to move forward and to hell with whether there's an audience or not. But sometimes it feels like I'm screaming into the void, you know? And I'm just not sure if I need to suck it up and keep going or let go and move on.

Anyway, sorry to rant. Guess I'm just looking for guidance from people with more experience.
You say that it's just a passion project, but is the goal to make money, or to use it as portfolio material for a job hunt or similar? If there's no other reason besides passion, the only thing I'd potentially worry about is the friendship between the team mates, depending on how you propose breaking things off. Or simply finish the game at your own pace and not worry about what comes next :) I don't think you'll lose much in terms of investment beyond time if you decide to finish the game, depending on how far along you are of course.
 

Lady Bow

Member
Nov 30, 2017
11,308
This is such a fun design. I like these colors a lot better than the red and silver you were showing off before.

For some reason it's very evocative of toothpaste to me, but I love it.

I can see it lol

oQxGTz5.png


Thanks so much!

I don't know why, but when i saw this awesome Ghost, only one name stuck into my head.
GumBolt

I'll add it to the list, thanks!
I finally started a project again after becoming father.
As I still don't have the time, focus and nerves to release another VR Project, I thought "Why don't you make that old idea of yours"

So far my time management comes along pretty well and it feels amazing doing games again. My brain is coming back!

Doesn't look like much for you guys, but I didn' expect to get this far in just a few days.

At first I am generating a tile grid in which every tile is sending linecasts from every side to check for neighbors
01_grid.PNG


The game itself spawns meshes at the tile map I created before and marks every tile with its coordinates and if they re a "wall" (rather edqe) or "floor" tile.

02_grid.PNG

03_grid.PNG


Now its time for proper character movement

Looks like it's coming along nicely, keep us posted!
 

blacktout

Member
Jan 16, 2018
1,209
You say that it's just a passion project, but is the goal to make money, or to use it as portfolio material for a job hunt or similar? If there's no other reason besides passion, the only thing I'd potentially worry about is the friendship between the team mates, depending on how you propose breaking things off. Or simply finish the game at your own pace and not worry about what comes next :) I don't think you'll lose much in terms of investment beyond time if you decide to finish the game, depending on how far along you are of course.

Thanks for replying! These are definitely all good points. It definitely wasn't a project that we were working on in the hopes of getting rich. None of us are game industry people, and it was more of a, "Hey, here's a cool idea, wonder if we can do it" thing. You're right that we don't have much invested besides time, and finishing it wouldn't require much besides time and energy and maybe paying for music and the nominal fee to get it listed on Steam.

That said, completing the demo/prologue turned out to be a lot of work, and I think knowing that we have way more work ahead of us without any real reason to believe there's an audience for what we're making ... is pretty discouraging? I guess this must be a pretty standard problem about game design hobbyists though, so maybe it's a little silly to be obsessing over it.
 

JeffG

Member
Oct 27, 2017
858
Edmonton, Alberta
This is kind of a depressing question to ask, but it's been nagging at me and I don't really know where else to turn for an answer: how do you guys know when it's time to give up on a project?

I've been working on a visual novel project with a couple of friends for a few months now, and ... I'm just not sure if it's going anywhere. We put together a playable demo/prologue and put it up on itch.io and even got a shockingly positive write-up in Waypoint. But we also tried to launch a Kickstarter with an extremely low funding goal that went down in flames hilariously, and I'm not sure if there will ever be enough real interest in the game to justify completing it.

I guess that's the kind of thing that shouldn't matter. This is a passion project after all, so maybe I need to look inside and see whether or not I want to move forward and to hell with whether there's an audience or not. But sometimes it feels like I'm screaming into the void, you know? And I'm just not sure if I need to suck it up and keep going or let go and move on.

Anyway, sorry to rant. Guess I'm just looking for guidance from people with more experience.
If it is a passion project and stuff is bugging you. Take a breather. When you are ready, just jump back on and continue.

If you want to make money, you will have to estimate how much effort for completion and compare that to potential sales. That should answer if it is worth it to continue.
 

blacktout

Member
Jan 16, 2018
1,209
If it is a passion project and stuff is bugging you. Take a breather. When you are ready, just jump back on and continue.

Right, yeah, the more I think about it, the more I realize that it's probably just burnout. I think take a breather to reevaluate is probably the best idea. Thanks!
 

Minamu

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,900
Sweden
Thanks for replying! These are definitely all good points. It definitely wasn't a project that we were working on in the hopes of getting rich. None of us are game industry people, and it was more of a, "Hey, here's a cool idea, wonder if we can do it" thing. You're right that we don't have much invested besides time, and finishing it wouldn't require much besides time and energy and maybe paying for music and the nominal fee to get it listed on Steam.

That said, completing the demo/prologue turned out to be a lot of work, and I think knowing that we have way more work ahead of us without any real reason to believe there's an audience for what we're making ... is pretty discouraging? I guess this must be a pretty standard problem about game design hobbyists though, so maybe it's a little silly to be obsessing over it.
Talk to your friends, maybe they feel the same way? :) You're gonna have to talk to them eventually anyway hehe. Seems to me that you don't operate on a time table, maybe you could work on something smaller to take a breather and reenergize? I'm in a similar situation to you, two friends and I are making a game we started as a weekend game jam, and we're edging ever closer to 2.5 years now. Sometimes it feels like we'll never be done, if nothing else due to new bugs appearing. We don't expect a single download or dollar from this, it's not the point but appreciated of course, but the amount of work put into the project can feel discouraging since it sometimes feels like we're treading water and not getting anywhere.
 

blacktout

Member
Jan 16, 2018
1,209
Talk to your friends, maybe they feel the same way? :) You're gonna have to talk to them eventually anyway hehe.

Oh yeah, definitely. I've talked to them some, and I think they're kind of worn out and frustrated too, but we haven't had a definitive "OK, what now?" chat yet.

I'm in a similar situation to you, two friends and I are making a game we started as a weekend game jam, and we're edging ever closer to 2.5 years now.

Cool! I could probably find this out by looking at your post history, but what kind of game is it? How far along are you now? Two and a half years sounds like an eternity for a small project!
 

missile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
112
... That said, completing the demo/prologue turned out to be a lot of work, and I think knowing that we have way more work ahead of us without any real reason to believe there's an audience for what we're making ... is pretty discouraging? I guess this must be a pretty standard problem about game design hobbyists though, so maybe it's a little silly to be obsessing over it.
I think you make the wrong assumption about the audience, i.e. considering your
game and the audience as two different things whereas you have to understand
that you create the audience while at the same time the audience greates your
game. What I wanna say is that you will learn about the audience while you
go, you will take note, will listen etc. all having an effect on your game
over time. It's like tuning a radio. To hit resonance with the audience you
have to tune and listen!
 

Minamu

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,900
Sweden
Oh yeah, definitely. I've talked to them some, and I think they're kind of worn out and frustrated too, but we haven't had a definitive "OK, what now?" chat yet.

Cool! I could probably find this out by looking at your post history, but what kind of game is it? How far along are you now? Two and a half years sounds like an eternity for a small project!
we're three friends making a small online multiplayer game in Unity, like a classbased cat and mouse chase game. We had a solid foundation over a game jam weekend but then we wanted to expand the scope and get proper online functionality and that took longer than we thought, even though we knew it was a bad idea from the start. We aren't working on it every day of course, it's down to once a week nowadays, give or take, and we're mostly down from three to two teammates now. I'd say we're near the finish line but I've said that for well over a year. Fact is, due to internal strife and feature creep, I said that I would drop out if we weren't ready for release by last August lol! I think we might have a beta out by this August though, it's been quite a while since I had anything major to do as the designer at least. Two and a half years sure is long and it's the longest project for me by far. I'm the only member who intends to use it as a portfolio piece though, so I won't abandon it now, and I think we got a great energy boost when I put down some hard deadlines (that we broke). I borderline lost a friend though due to the team's struggles last year.

I can't wait to get my hands dirty with something new though, I think a concept of mine almost every day now, I can't help it xD I'm also considering updating some older projects to include some nicer graphics and more robust functionality.
 
Mar 20, 2018
5
Vancouver
Been late to update on what I have been up to. We put up a downloadable PC demo for Mean Streets on our website. Its just a demo of one fight and not the core loop. Things are a bit messy, but still very playable. Would be cool if you guys check it out and let me know thoughts.

www.craftshop-arts.com

 

Veidt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
511
we're three friends making a small online multiplayer game in Unity, like a classbased cat and mouse chase game. We had a solid foundation over a game jam weekend but then we wanted to expand the scope and get proper online functionality and that took longer than we thought, even though we knew it was a bad idea from the start. We aren't working on it every day of course, it's down to once a week nowadays, give or take, and we're mostly down from three to two teammates now. I'd say we're near the finish line but I've said that for well over a year. Fact is, due to internal strife and feature creep, I said that I would drop out if we weren't ready for release by last August lol! I think we might have a beta out by this August though, it's been quite a while since I had anything major to do as the designer at least. Two and a half years sure is long and it's the longest project for me by far. I'm the only member who intends to use it as a portfolio piece though, so I won't abandon it now, and I think we got a great energy boost when I put down some hard deadlines (that we broke). I borderline lost a friend though due to the team's struggles last year.

I can't wait to get my hands dirty with something new though, I think a concept of mine almost every day now, I can't help it xD I'm also considering updating some older projects to include some nicer graphics and more robust functionality.

What's left to do before you can release it? How stable and feature complete is your current build?
 

Minamu

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,900
Sweden
What's left to do before you can release it? How stable and feature complete is your current build?
I'll write two answers for you xD The short answer is, there's basically nothing left to do. The game doesn't randomly crash anymore from timeouts thanks to our new matchmaking asset, and the gameplay loop has been stable and complete for probably two of those two and a half years.

The long answer is: well, it feels like new bugs pop up every day so it's hard to tell, and since we're just two guys most of the time, maybe working on it for half a work day per week, at least together in the same room, it's going slowly. I'm not a programmer by trade like he is so I'm not super helpful in that department yet either.

We recently started implementing a new matchmaking system we bought from the asset store so making that cooperate with our code is taking up a lot of effort. The gameplay has been stable for some time, at least to our limited knowledge; testing a four player game with only two people is difficult to say the least, so I don't know how well it holds up over longer distances and with more people. That's one of my major concerns as the level designer; maybe the maps are too small for four active players and stuff like that.

We discovered some win condition bugs today actually (stuff like win conditions not triggering if people disconnect from an active game) but in general I think we could've released an alpha or beta a long time ago actually. I've considered us feature complete for over a year or more to be honest, we're just mostly trying to squash nonsense bugs we failed to take into account while structuring the code's logic, you know, tiny things like the mouse cursor getting stuck in the middle of the screen when it shouldn't. It's mainly polish stuff that I personally would feel embarassed over.

My two biggest gripes that I'd love to see fixed, and think should never have happened in the first place are 1) there's very little camera collision with geometry so it's easy to accidentally, or not, look through walls. This also affects the occlusion culling making large chunks of the level temporarily disappear, which is ridiculous to me. And 2) our spawn points only work flawlessly while offline, but once you go online, their coordinates go out the window for some reason, and it's very easy to end up spawning below the map (which should trigger a respawn but still). This is supposedly due to our networking code approximating player positions poorly. It only happens at the start of the match though, which makes it even weirder. The currently suggested "solution" is to arbitrarily create loading screens that are long enough that players won't notice it; I'm sadly not even joking :/

I want to release it for free on for example itch.io asap to get feedback, but I'm concerned as to how to do bug fix patches without forcing people to redownload the entire game every time.

Long answer to two very short questions :)
 

TI92

Alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,598
reallly rough cs project but my first fully realized unity project so that's cool :p

up to 8 player pong game, works with controllers (but only on windows). Got a mega.nz link if anyone wants to play it. Working on a considerably different project now, will have updates when more progress is made.

edit : im dumb, here is a link to the github just download the .7z for windows or linux if you wanna play :p

https://github.com/Camology/CS372-Proj3
 
Last edited:

Sean Noonan

Lead Level Designer at Splash Damage
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
384
UK
As I'm wrapping up Jack B. Nimble for Steam I went into planning mode on my next game (codename: ND1). And I'll be honest, I'm not entirely happy with the timescale that I've mapped out, especially based on how long previous projects have taken.

My question is, how do you all feel about committing to long development cycles? Have any of you cancelled something you're passionate about just because you feel it would take too long to make?

One thing I'm beginning to consider is partnering up with somebody - probably a blueprint expert, but not sure yet.

For those interested, here's a bit of media from it:


 

SweetSark

Banned
Nov 29, 2017
3,640
ughWq5l.png


started to add a big floof to the game for the outside areas. Still working on the fluffiness.

Good advertisment strategy.
This will bring people from furry community to check the game.
Also it is me or she/he/it have thick legs?

Joking aside, the werewolf look freaking cool!!!
Would the hero have silver bullets to fight it or at least a silver blade of shorts?
 

K Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
278
Good advertisment strategy.
This will bring people from furry community to check the game.
Also it is me or she/he/it have thick legs?

Joking aside, the werewolf look freaking cool!!!
Would the hero have silver bullets to fight it or at least a silver blade of shorts?

U know my secret! always felt jealous of not being part of #FurryFridays
Yes, she/he has very thick legs - went for the stocky build.

Right now the game has now weapon abilities but the sound of a blade might be quite cool
 

Asa

Member
Oct 26, 2017
72
Helsinki, Finland
We have started to reveal our next game: few teaser gifs :)
giphy.gif


giphy.gif

Game is almost complete and we are just ironing out the kinks at the moment.
Going to be posting more info in the upcoming weeks, I just wanted to share this first glimpse here, I'vent got time to be post here lately but I'm lurking now and then :D
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 5876

Big Seller
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,559
We have started to reveal our next game: here's a first teaser gif :)
giphy.gif


Game is almost complete and we are just ironing out the kinks at the moment.
Going to be posting more info in the upcoming weeks, I just wanted to share this first glimpse here, I'vent got that much time to be posting here lately but I'm lurking now and then :D

I'm getting strong R.C. Pro-Am vibes from this
 

SweetSark

Banned
Nov 29, 2017
3,640
U know my secret! always felt jealous of not being part of #FurryFridays
Yes, she/he has very thick legs - went for the stocky build.

Right now the game has now weapon abilities but the sound of a blade might be quite cool

To be fair, any sharp object to defend yourself would do in your game. It would be also more "realistic" as well.
 

jbr373

Member
May 21, 2018
23
Decided to make some (low quality) gifs, showing the game in motion as well as new implementations:

hER6NAK.mp4

sC4qDiE.mp4

V7rlB9t.mp4

EK0VwCo.png

hrRxQJf.png

We have started to reveal our next game: few teaser gifs :)
giphy.gif


giphy.gif

Game is almost complete and we are just ironing out the kinks at the moment.
Going to be posting more info in the upcoming weeks, I just wanted to share this first glimpse here, I'vent got time to be post here lately but I'm lurking now and then :D

I love the way this looks!
 

Veidt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
511
I'll write two answers for you xD The short answer is, there's basically nothing left to do. The game doesn't randomly crash anymore from timeouts thanks to our new matchmaking asset, and the gameplay loop has been stable and complete for probably two of those two and a half years.

The long answer is: well, it feels like new bugs pop up every day so it's hard to tell, and since we're just two guys most of the time, maybe working on it for half a work day per week, at least together in the same room, it's going slowly. I'm not a programmer by trade like he is so I'm not super helpful in that department yet either.

We recently started implementing a new matchmaking system we bought from the asset store so making that cooperate with our code is taking up a lot of effort. The gameplay has been stable for some time, at least to our limited knowledge; testing a four player game with only two people is difficult to say the least, so I don't know how well it holds up over longer distances and with more people. That's one of my major concerns as the level designer; maybe the maps are too small for four active players and stuff like that.

We discovered some win condition bugs today actually (stuff like win conditions not triggering if people disconnect from an active game) but in general I think we could've released an alpha or beta a long time ago actually. I've considered us feature complete for over a year or more to be honest, we're just mostly trying to squash nonsense bugs we failed to take into account while structuring the code's logic, you know, tiny things like the mouse cursor getting stuck in the middle of the screen when it shouldn't. It's mainly polish stuff that I personally would feel embarassed over.

My two biggest gripes that I'd love to see fixed, and think should never have happened in the first place are 1) there's very little camera collision with geometry so it's easy to accidentally, or not, look through walls. This also affects the occlusion culling making large chunks of the level temporarily disappear, which is ridiculous to me. And 2) our spawn points only work flawlessly while offline, but once you go online, their coordinates go out the window for some reason, and it's very easy to end up spawning below the map (which should trigger a respawn but still). This is supposedly due to our networking code approximating player positions poorly. It only happens at the start of the match though, which makes it even weirder. The currently suggested "solution" is to arbitrarily create loading screens that are long enough that players won't notice it; I'm sadly not even joking :/

I want to release it for free on for example itch.io asap to get feedback, but I'm concerned as to how to do bug fix patches without forcing people to redownload the entire game every time.

Long answer to two very short questions :)

The answer to that is simple...playtesting. Find people to play your game asap. Check gamedev communities, both on forums and discord servers. Start with a handful of people and grow from there, get as much feedback as possible. Feedback will go a long way getting you ready to finally release the game, since it will reveal problems you probably didn't notice and make you aware of any problems you're overstating in terms of importance.

Afterwards you can put it on itch.io, when you're sure there aren't major changes to be made. Can't help you regarding your issue with patching on itch.io, since I never used their platform, but I'd be surprised if they didn't allow for incremental patches. Worse case scenario, if your builds have a small filesize I'd say the vast majority of people won't be bothered to redownload it.

As I'm wrapping up Jack B. Nimble for Steam I went into planning mode on my next game (codename: ND1). And I'll be honest, I'm not entirely happy with the timescale that I've mapped out, especially based on how long previous projects have taken.

My question is, how do you all feel about committing to long development cycles? Have any of you cancelled something you're passionate about just because you feel it would take too long to make?

Yes. Looking back they wouldn't have taken as long as I estimated, but hindsight is 20/20. What sort of timescale are we talking about here?

One thing I'm beginning to consider is partnering up with somebody - probably a blueprint expert, but not sure yet.

For those interested, here's a bit of media from it:




What is the game about? Assuming you're ready to talk about it.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
This discussion of changing palettes at runtime using shaders is very relevant to my interests! I'm still torn between attempting this approach (which means learning about shaders, but is probably a cleaner way of doing it) or pre-baking the colours into textures made during the procgen stage (no overhead at all during gameplay, but could be fiddly and time-consuming when generating the world).

For now, I've replaced the sample colours with Endesga 32 (or rather, Weltall Zero did and I shamelessly appropriated it). However, I realised that the only way to make the doors (and stairs) large enough is to increase the size that each "block" in the room layout represents.

Originally this was 24x24, or 3x3 tiles:

Icnmfwq.png


I've had to adjust it to 32x32, or 4x4 tiles:

HywSt40.png


Aside from the door size, this has some advantages and disadvantages. It means the edges will need to be handled a bit differently for the upper and lower floors, so the routine for converting the room layout into a full-size room will be more complicated. However, it has the huge advantage that the multiple for the floor tiles is better, so the edge pattern looks the same all the way around.

Here it is without the lines:

YrSQM6f.png


I got feedback that the floor is a little boring because the material isn't clear, so I'll try at some point to add a bit of edge lighting/shading to them to make it look more like tiles. It also needs to look weathered/cracked sometimes, but I'm putting that way down the to-do list because I have a lot of other temp art to create.

I have a slight concern that the walls look a bit less even/regular now that I've adjusted the width and redrawn the lines, but I don't know how much of this is in my head...

And of course ResetEra decides to stop notifying me of updates to this thread (and several others) right before this post, sigh. I'm going to have to make a point of checking the followed threads page rather than the notifications one, something is seriously wrong with the latter.

Unfortunately I'm far too tired now to read everything in the thread since then, let alone reply appropriately, but at least I will do so with this one. First I'm super happy that you found my Endesga conversion useful, and honored for you to use it. :) Second, I think it's looking great, and particularly the doors look much better now. As for your concerns:
- The floor could indeed use a bit of shadowing where it meets the walls. As for making it look like tiles, that depends on you. I see two obvious ways to do it, which one would you use? I don't have the mental energy to explain myself (least of all in English) so here's a visual of what I'd mean (replace black with appropriate dark versions of the colors):

ukUPVYT.png

- As for the walls, the upper layers do indeed have differently-sized bricks, but that's more or less inevitable at three bricks per 32 pixel tile. I don't think I'd have noticed if you hadn't pointed it out, and in any case, medieval castles weren't exactly built with mass-produced, perfectly equal bricks. :)

All in all it's coming together so nicely!
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
And of course ResetEra decides to stop notifying me of updates to this thread (and several others) right before this post, sigh. I'm going to have to make a point of checking the followed threads page rather than the notifications one, something is seriously wrong with the latter.
If you check your notifications and don't follow all of them then you don't get more notifications. You have to actually visit a thread to be re-notified about further posts.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
If you check your notifications and don't follow all of them then you don't get more notifications. You have to actually visit a thread to be re-notified about further posts.

I see, I wish there was a way to change that because it's pretty counterintuitive and bothersome. Like, sometimes I have six notifications but only have time to check one thread or two; I don't understand why the system would take that as me wanting to hide all notifications from all other threads with a current notification, present or future.

Does this happen only when checking notifications from the dedicated link (the account/alerts URL)? In other words, will it not happen if I instead just dropdown the notification icon in the main page and navigate from there?
 

Minamu

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,900
Sweden
The answer to that is simple...playtesting. Find people to play your game asap. Check gamedev communities, both on forums and discord servers. Start with a handful of people and grow from there, get as much feedback as possible. Feedback will go a long way getting you ready to finally release the game, since it will reveal problems you probably didn't notice and make you aware of any problems you're overstating in terms of importance.

Afterwards you can put it on itch.io, when you're sure there aren't major changes to be made. Can't help you regarding your issue with patching on itch.io, since I never used their platform, but I'd be surprised if they didn't allow for incremental patches. Worse case scenario, if your builds have a small filesize I'd say the vast majority of people won't be bothered to redownload it.
Thanks, yes playtesting must be done. I thought itch might be a good place for it but maybe your approach is wiser. We're gonna let fellow colleagues at our jobs test it soon I hope, they've been bugging us about it for a long time ;) I'll need to check our file size but sending it to era would also be nice for starters. We have a huge gam dev community here thanks to the university we all went to so that's of course an untapped resource, especially via facebook. Got any other suggestions for finding testers?
 

Veidt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
511
Thanks, yes playtesting must be done. I thought itch might be a good place for it but maybe your approach is wiser. We're gonna let fellow colleagues at our jobs test it soon I hope, they've been bugging us about it for a long time ;) I'll need to check our file size but sending it to era would also be nice for starters. We have a huge gam dev community here thanks to the university we all went to so that's of course an untapped resource, especially via facebook. Got any other suggestions for finding testers?

Some gamedev communities have certain events aimed at getting feedback (like /r/gamedev does with feedback friday), which gives you a chance to share a build of the game for other devs to test and give feedback, although there's no guarantee someone will actually play it. Besides what has already been mentioned, I would recommend sharing some footage of the game on social media and mentioning that you're looking for playtesters. Perhaps even make a trailer where you emphasize everyone can try a beta of the game right now, as that should catch the attention of people who are genuinely interested in playing the game, rather than just trying it out as a favour.
 

Minamu

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,900
Sweden
Some gamedev communities have certain events aimed at getting feedback (like /r/gamedev does with feedback friday), which gives you a chance to share a build of the game for other devs to test and give feedback, although there's no guarantee someone will actually play it. Besides what has already been mentioned, I would recommend sharing some footage of the game on social media and mentioning that you're looking for playtesters. Perhaps even make a trailer where you emphasize everyone can try a beta of the game right now, as that should catch the attention of people who are genuinely interested in playing the game, rather than just trying it out as a favour.
Good ideas all around :)
 

sabrina

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,174
newport beach, CA
I see, I wish there was a way to change that because it's pretty counterintuitive and bothersome. Like, sometimes I have six notifications but only have time to check one thread or two; I don't understand why the system would take that as me wanting to hide all notifications from all other threads with a current notification, present or future.

Does this happen only when checking notifications from the dedicated link (the account/alerts URL)? In other words, will it not happen if I instead just dropdown the notification icon in the main page and navigate from there?
If you've been served the notification at all then the system assumes you know there are unread posts and don't need to be further bothered.
 

Slamtastic

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,485
So tl:dr;
- I don't know how to snap to a palette without using if's, but this doesn't mean it can't be done, as I'm pretty noob myself (someone who's a shader guru would be very helpful here).
- Snapping to a palette using if's is possible, but likely inefficient because of how shaders work.
- Snapping using a formula (e.g. snap to closest arbitrary step for each color channel) is trivial and far more efficient, but might not be what you want.
It's not that hard. You can just use a texture as a color look-up table. Take something like the image below, convert it down to your palette, and then use the .rgb values of your unconverted color as texcoords to find something on the LUT.

Thanks for the tips!

I got what I want working, I used the standard toon shading look up texture method

O3NmFDM.jpg


but rather than apply the gradient shades over a color texture, I used a limited color gradient and just tied the light intensity directly to which position on the texture was used for the color applied to the pixel being worked on.

There's still if checks by nature, it's a color replacement shader as well as a palettization one.

I pass in a texture with the areas I want color replaced (I'm going for a pixel art look with low resolution rendering, so the lack of antialiasing on the texture is fine)


Then I put in which color ramps I want to use for the green area and the pink area respectively


And now I know that the shading on that specified area will have as many steps as horizontal pixels in the image I pass in for the palette, and that as the light gets more intense it will more towards the right of the image.


Doing so I can make it so shades don't have to actually follow light to dark, or stay the same color, and have more control.

Next up is going from a single directional scene light source to the aggregate of multiple lights affecting the pixel at once, then comes making outlines and possibly some kind of dithering.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
OK, let's do this! *rolls up sleeves*

This is kind of a depressing question to ask, but it's been nagging at me and I don't really know where else to turn for an answer: how do you guys know when it's time to give up on a project?

Others have adressed a lot of points, so real quick:
- Absolutely do not use Kickstarter as a metric for interest in your game. There's a huge amount of Kickstarter burnout right now and even high-profile games are failing to get and decent budgets out of it, let alone indies without access to the kind of exposure those have.
- Getting a glowing mention on Waypoint is absolutely not something you should ignore. I think most of us here would kill for that kind of exposure. :D

Been late to update on what I have been up to. We put up a downloadable PC demo for Mean Streets on our website. Its just a demo of one fight and not the core loop. Things are a bit messy, but still very playable. Would be cool if you guys check it out and let me know thoughts.

www.craftshop-arts.com



OH SHIT! Downloading right now, can't wait to try it when I have a bit of time (bit crazy right now as I want to release a build for testers for the weekend), I loved it so much when you showed it earlier.

I'll write two answers for you xD The short answer is, there's basically nothing left to do. The game doesn't randomly crash anymore from timeouts thanks to our new matchmaking asset, and the gameplay loop has been stable and complete for probably two of those two and a half years.

The long answer is: well, it feels like new bugs pop up every day so it's hard to tell, and since we're just two guys most of the time, maybe working on it for half a work day per week, at least together in the same room, it's going slowly. I'm not a programmer by trade like he is so I'm not super helpful in that department yet either.

We recently started implementing a new matchmaking system we bought from the asset store so making that cooperate with our code is taking up a lot of effort. The gameplay has been stable for some time, at least to our limited knowledge; testing a four player game with only two people is difficult to say the least, so I don't know how well it holds up over longer distances and with more people. That's one of my major concerns as the level designer; maybe the maps are too small for four active players and stuff like that.

We discovered some win condition bugs today actually (stuff like win conditions not triggering if people disconnect from an active game) but in general I think we could've released an alpha or beta a long time ago actually. I've considered us feature complete for over a year or more to be honest, we're just mostly trying to squash nonsense bugs we failed to take into account while structuring the code's logic, you know, tiny things like the mouse cursor getting stuck in the middle of the screen when it shouldn't. It's mainly polish stuff that I personally would feel embarassed over.

My two biggest gripes that I'd love to see fixed, and think should never have happened in the first place are 1) there's very little camera collision with geometry so it's easy to accidentally, or not, look through walls. This also affects the occlusion culling making large chunks of the level temporarily disappear, which is ridiculous to me. And 2) our spawn points only work flawlessly while offline, but once you go online, their coordinates go out the window for some reason, and it's very easy to end up spawning below the map (which should trigger a respawn but still). This is supposedly due to our networking code approximating player positions poorly. It only happens at the start of the match though, which makes it even weirder. The currently suggested "solution" is to arbitrarily create loading screens that are long enough that players won't notice it; I'm sadly not even joking :/

I want to release it for free on for example itch.io asap to get feedback, but I'm concerned as to how to do bug fix patches without forcing people to redownload the entire game every time.

Long answer to two very short questions :)

Sounds to me you desperately need feedback like right now. It's been said in the thread but send builds of your game to friends and family to test it. The handful of friends that played my game brought up an embarrassing number of things that seem so obvious in retrospect, and made a lot of comments that can be turned into game-changing additions. My game would literally not be half as fun without their contributions.

My question is, how do you all feel about committing to long development cycles? Have any of you cancelled something you're passionate about just because you feel it would take too long to make?

Can't speak for others but for me it just happened; it ballooned from a few months project into a year and a half one that doesn't seem to be halfway done. I simply can't imagine stopping now, it's part of my life and so fun to make. This might be an unpopular response, but if you feel exhaustion thinking of the time commitment even before starting, that might be a good sign that you might want not to start (or perhaps strip the game to its core, start with that and see what happens).

ughWq5l.png


started to add a big floof to the game for the outside areas. Still working on the fluffiness.

Your game never fails to shock with its quality. Do you make the enemy models yourself? It seems like sorcery to me.

We have started to reveal our next game: few teaser gifs :)
giphy.gif


giphy.gif

Game is almost complete and we are just ironing out the kinks at the moment.
Going to be posting more info in the upcoming weeks, I just wanted to share this first glimpse here, I'vent got time to be post here lately but I'm lurking now and then :D

Reminds me a lot of Super Off Road, which is great as there's been very few games like it in the nearly 30 years since it was released. Looking great as well, very clean looking!

Decided to make some (low quality) gifs, showing the game in motion as well as new implementations:

hER6NAK.mp4

sC4qDiE.mp4

V7rlB9t.mp4

EK0VwCo.png

hrRxQJf.png

Your game looks great but in particular the character looks amazing. It looks like I imagined Final Fantasy VI characters would look like with more graphic fidelity.

The answer to that is simple...playtesting. Find people to play your game asap. Check gamedev communities, both on forums and discord servers. Start with a handful of people and grow from there, get as much feedback as possible. Feedback will go a long way getting you ready to finally release the game, since it will reveal problems you probably didn't notice and make you aware of any problems you're overstating in terms of importance.

This absolutely cannot be overstated. Feedback is the lifeblood of game development. Get it early, get it often, get it varied.
Frankly I admire people who make games without feedback, how do you even find the drive to keep pressing on? It feels like making a game in Hard Mode :D (or Nightmare Mode more likely).

e2867ee830d7aef9c18daef9bc3a9b4d9a3e93ff.png


Things are still progressing. Unity Cloud Build almost automated for Steam. I work too slow for this world!

https://steamcommunity.com/games/679270/announcements/detail/1648761723385463207

This looks beautiful, reminds me a lot of Fantasy Life which I loved. I see it's a more straightforward MMO(-like), though?

Thanks for the tips!

I got what I want working, I used the standard toon shading look up texture method

O3NmFDM.jpg


but rather than apply the gradient shades over a color texture, I used a limited color gradient and just tied the light intensity directly to which position on the texture was used for the color applied to the pixel being worked on.

There's still if checks by nature, it's a color replacement shader as well as a palettization one.

I pass in a texture with the areas I want color replaced (I'm going for a pixel art look with low resolution rendering, so the lack of antialiasing on the texture is fine)



Then I put in which color ramps I want to use for the green area and the pink area respectively



And now I know that the shading on that specified area will have as many steps as horizontal pixels in the image I pass in for the palette, and that as the light gets more intense it will more towards the right of the image.



Doing so I can make it so shades don't have to actually follow light to dark, or stay the same color, and have more control.

Next up is going from a single directional scene light source to the aggregate of multiple lights affecting the pixel at once, then comes making outlines and possibly some kind of dithering.

Looking great! Glad that sabrina's expertise helped you, they sure know their stuff! :)
 

blacktout

Member
Jan 16, 2018
1,209
we're three friends making a small online multiplayer game in Unity, like a classbased cat and mouse chase game. We had a solid foundation over a game jam weekend but then we wanted to expand the scope and get proper online functionality and that took longer than we thought, even though we knew it was a bad idea from the start.

This sounds really cool. One of my friends is obsessed with weird, experimental competitive multiplayer games (especially if they have online). Feel free to shoot me a PM if you want another beta tester (or two or three).

Others have adressed a lot of points, so real quick:
- Absolutely do not use Kickstarter as a metric for interest in your game. There's a huge amount of Kickstarter burnout right now and even high-profile games are failing to get and decent budgets out of it, let alone indies without access to the kind of exposure those have.
- Getting a glowing mention on Waypoint is absolutely not something you should ignore. I think most of us here would kill for that kind of exposure. :D

Thanks! You're probably right about Kickstarter. We were hoping for more, because we had successfully kickstarted a collection of tabletop RPGs a few years ago, and I thought that might give us a base of support to build from, but I think we might have overestimated the overlap in audiences between our old project and new one and underestimated just how bad Kickstarter fatigue has become.
 
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