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Łazy

Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,249
Maybe next year they'll actually show a single new 1st party game.
They'rejust not treating E3 like the others.
When you see what have been announced out of their E3 there would be no surprise if they announce new games in a next direct or just through random news for third party.

Next Direct could be as important if not more than the E3 one. They are that unpredictable.

That said, I'm not sure this it the best way to communicate, but... we'll see how they work this out.
 

Puroresu_kid

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,471
I think a part of the audience is in denial. Sure, Smash will do big numbers. 10 millions in a year? Maybe! But that's not something extraordinary anymore. God of War is going to do that. And God of War is just one of the many, many multimillion games that the PS4 will see in one years.

Nintendo isn't in danger, because their business model is perfectly self-sustainable. It's just becoming less and less attractive for investors.

10 mil on a much smaller userbase is something different
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
How are they "struggling to keep up"? Because they didn't show Metroid Prime footage?

Because they can't match the offer on other consoles alone. Even 4-5 high profile games a year is too little compared to what the competition is getting. And they're struggling to reach that.

Again, look at the calendar between september and february. Look at the releases on PS4 and the releases on Switch. They can't keep up with that onslaught of titles, and the competition is constantly accellerating. My impression is that the production pipeline is really struggling at the moment. The world is moving too fast for Nintendo.
 

Deleted member 26462

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 30, 2017
488
With this mentality and the inability to create a good cataloge for their main console, it's impossible to see a bright future for Nintendo in the console market unless other executives take the lead of the company.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,128
Okay fine, they define it as mainline. So it's a mainline game that falls drastically behind the standards that the series has set, removes a lot of the core features, and adds in a mechanic from a mobile game.

Second point seems kind of apples to oranges. 3DS already HAD 42 million. Switch is projected to have 37 million, a lot of that projection would be based on their expectations for Pokemon.
Yeah and before Pokémon, in September 2013, the 3DS had sold 34 million. It's almost as if Pokémon spurs sales
 

Xx 720

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,920
I wish they had just skipped labo, the time and dev cost had to of affected the year two switch software output.
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
10 mil on a much smaller userbase is something different

Investors won't particularly care. Again, we're not talking fans here. Fans have no reason to worry, they're going to keep getting Nintendo titles at an acceptable pace.

But an investor is going to look at what's happening in other places they may be putting money in and rethink their options.
 

Hero2Zero

Member
Mar 10, 2018
101
Because they can't match the offer on other consoles alone. Even 4-5 high profile games a year is too little compared to what the competition is getting. And they're struggling to reach that.

Again, look at the calendar between september and february. Look at the releases on PS4 and the releases on Switch. They can't keep up with that onslaught of titles, and the competition is constantly accellerating. My impression is that the production pipeline is really struggling at the moment. The world is moving too fast for Nintendo.
\

honestly after E3 i want to throw my PS4 into the trash, i always had issues with it but blocking my fortnite account sony can fuck off and anyone who sheep defends them for uncharted with god of war skin
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,128
Because they can't match the offer on other consoles alone. Even 4-5 high profile games a year is too little compared to what the competition is getting. And they're struggling to reach that.

Again, look at the calendar between september and february. Look at the releases on PS4 and the releases on Switch. They can't keep up with that onslaught of titles, and the competition is constantly accellerating. My impression is that the production pipeline is really struggling at the moment. The world is moving too fast for Nintendo.
But how many of those titles are Sony made, and Microsoft made?

You're splitting hairs here. You're wanting Nintendo to not just be Nintendo but to cover the realm taken by Activsion, Ubisoft, EA etc. which is unrealistic. If Nintendo's production pipeline is struggling? How the hell is Microsoft's doing?
 

Shifty1897

Member
Oct 28, 2017
702
Surprising, as I'm 100% in on buying Smash and about half of the other first party titles they showed.
 

KcebAnier

Member
Oct 29, 2017
257
The Desperate Attempts to tear down Nintendo in this thread are just sad. In the next Two and a Half Months alone Switch is getting Nine Significant retail releases.

Crash N. Sane
The Lost Child
Mario Tennis
Ys VIII
Wolfenstein
Captain Toad
Octopath Traveler
Monster Hunter
Dark Souls

I really hate to destroy some folks Delusions, but Ports Count. Ports do sell systems.

Regardless, Mario Tennis, Octopath and Monster Hunter make for a incredibly effective summer lineup. Add a little Dark Souls and Wolfenstein on top of that and you have a very good summer line up. Anyone who says otherwise is just console warring.
 

Hero2Zero

Member
Mar 10, 2018
101
like wtf, when did smash and pokemon became "small time" reset era nintendo trolls are like trump level dumb
 

Deleted member 6730

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,526
With this mentality and the inability to create a good cataloge for their main console, it's impossible to see a bright future for Nintendo in the console market unless other executives take the lead of the company.
Games take time, development is hard, they have two big games come out this year. Look how many games Sony and MS release this year and tell me why you expect one game a month like it's some effortless task.
 

freakybj

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,428
Because they can't match the offer on other consoles alone. Even 4-5 high profile games a year is too little compared to what the competition is getting. And they're struggling to reach that.

Again, look at the calendar between september and february. Look at the releases on PS4 and the releases on Switch. They can't keep up with that onslaught of titles, and the competition is constantly accellerating. My impression is that the production pipeline is really struggling at the moment. The world is moving too fast for Nintendo.
Nintendo's problem is that they keep creating consoles that people mainly buy for first party titles only and they don't make a lot of effort to fix that issue. I don't think many Switch owners just have a Switch. Most buy it as a complement to another console or PC.
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,371
there is a reason Nintendo has kept last year's games relevant with continuous updates and DLC.

I wish they had.

If Mario Kart and Odyssey had DLC coming this year, I would be way more accepting of the release schedule for this year. Xenoblade and Splatoon are alright, but they can't hold me for a year on those two games with updates alone until Smash right at the end.

Also how come Wii U ports are seen as a bad thing? I bought my Switch for a Wii U port (Zelda lol). Plenty of people who never bothered with that thing and it would be unfair to let those games rot away on a trash system, porting takes less effort than making brand new games but to a lot of people they might as well be brand new.

People here are disproportionately likely to have had a Wii U and so not give a damn about Wii U rereleases. If we wanted to play them, we would have already.
 

Coxy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,187
That's not true though. Sony showed four first party games. That's it. And most of those games aren't coming for a loooong time. Nintendo's direct was about the immediate future. They could have showed games that are coming out in late 2019 or 2020, but that's not their style. Leave that to Sony.
That wasn't my point. My point was Sony didn't have to show any more new games - the PS4 has been out for longer and therefore has plenty of first party games.

Switch needs more games - yes they take time and yes it's early in its life (PS4 also didn't have many first party games in its life) but my point is I'm not surprised the stocks went down - it was a disappointing conference
 

xyla

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,387
Germany
All absolutely relevant information in the OP. It will be harder to reach 20m then expected. That is all that is needed for this drop. Some people don't want to be there when Nintendo course corrects again.
 

Łazy

Member
Nov 1, 2017
5,249
And the major problem with all of that is that Sony and MS are ready to transition in the next gen. They're revving the engines: next E3 may already seem them announce the new consoles.

So you have a console that is already a full generation behind in power that is just hitting its stride and that Nintendo isn't exactly flooding with software, and when you'll finally reach the point where its game library can rightfully stand up to the competition, they will have moved on.


I think what's worrying the investors is that the videogame market is growing and changing at an accellerating pace, and Nintendo seems to be really struggling to keep up.
It's not "a full generation behind" though.
 

Lunar15

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,647
I think the E3 direct was pretty lackluster and that 2018 is looking a little meager, but Pokemon and Smash will move some units. I don't think they'll make their predicted goal, though.

That said, stock movements like this are kinda meaningless in the long run.
 

Mr_F_Snowman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,883
How are they "struggling to keep up"? Because they didn't show Metroid Prime footage?

Because they cannot put out the same number of AAA titles with scope and ambition that most third party publishers can? And also that they do not have said publishers in support no matter the sales success? Because they are not capable of doing in house stuff like their online services and back end and have to get outside help from the likes of dena who then mess it up and delay it?

Nintendo employ about half the number of people most major third parties do (Acti/EA/Ubi all around 10'000 - Nintendo around 5'000). They are in serious need of growth and expansion or they are going to be utterly fucked in the next 10 years
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,128
While this is true, have they ever announced a second mainline title before the first mainline title has even released? To me it suggests they are covering all their bases and aren't as confident in LGP.
It's like Nintendo revealing the NX when they announced going mobile. They knew the Internet, media etc. would go crazy with asinine stuff like "Pokémon is getting rebooted"
 

Deleted member 11008

User requested account closure
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
6,627
Sony and MS have third parties.

Nintendo has...well...good intentions at least.

Daemon-x-Machina_06-12-18.jpg
 

Lunar15

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,647
While this is true, have they ever announced a second mainline title before the first mainline title has even released? To me it suggests they are covering all their bases and aren't as confident in LGP.

I think they know it's going to sell well, but also know that there's a bunch of angry nerds out there who won't like that its a more casual take on the franchise, designed to entice the Pokemon GO audience onto the console before the next major title lands.
 

lovecatt

Member
Nov 12, 2017
2,427
Idgi.

If Nintendo are doomed cause they "only" have Smash and Pokemon this holiday then what does that Make Microsoft that only has Forza or Sony with Spiderman
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,128
Because they cannot put out the same number of AAA titles with scope and ambition that most third party publishers can? And also that they do not have said publishers in support no matter the sales success? Because they are not capable of doing in house stuff like their online services and back end and have to get outside help from the likes of dena who then mess it up and delay it?

Nintendo employ about half the number of people most major third parties do (Acti/EA/Ubi all around 10'000 - Nintendo around 5'000). They are in serious need of growth and expansion or they are going to be utterly fucked in the next 10 years
Nintendo manage to publish at least 1, if not 2, titles a month for the Switch, many of which are developed in house or overseen inhouse. At least 2 of these a year are big titles. Not even Ubisoft or Activision have this level of output and you're telling me it's not enough?

Nintendo are doing fine and are keeping up. Making decisions you do not like does not mean they're not keeping up. It means maybe their stuff isn't for you.
Idgi.

If Nintendo are doomed cause they "only" have Smash and Pokemon this holiday then what does that Make Microsoft that only has Forza or Sony with Spiderman
Never has a more true post been made
 

henlo_birb

Member
Dec 15, 2017
1,885
They were really overvalued in my opinion. Even if a lot of fans are still happy with them, their presentation for E3 wasn't strong. They didn't bring hardly any games, they lack big new AAA exclusives, they lack big third part AAA support (and will clearly not get it headed into the future at this point) and Retro's absence, Yoshi's delay, and Fire Emblem's delay smell fishy.

People still seem sensitive about Smash, and while it's clearly labeled as a new game with tweaked mechanics and updated character models etc., it looks strikingly similar to that game that came out a few years ago. As their big game along with Pokémon for the whole year of 2018, that's pretty lackluster when you look at how high they were valued so it only makes sense it would drop.

Personally as someone who played mostly on Switch last year, I have hardly touched it this year aside from when playing games that came out last year, so as a fan I'm pretty dissatisfied as well.
 

Casual

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,547
Yeah and before Pokémon, in September 2013, the 3DS had sold 34 million. It's almost as if Pokémon spurs sales

Which goes back to my original point.

Proper Pokemon entry on a cheap handheld is not the same as a dumbed down entry on a relatively expensive console.

Mainline Pokemon on relatively inexpensive handhelds spur sales. I'm sure this one will too, but I doubt anywhere near as much.
 

freakybj

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,428
Nintendo does too and it'll get more. Dozens of new games come out on the Switch every week. If you're thinking there's droughts that's flat out wrong.
The problem is that there aren't many of those games I want to play. Most seem to be low budget indie titles. And the 3rd party games that are released on Switch have been on other platforms for a while already, so I would rather buy them cheaper on those platforms rather than spending $60 for the Switch version.
 
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