Cyberpunk 2077 E3 2018

Se_7_eN said:

When something like this comes down the pipeline, it is almost guaranteed that those who want something to complain about will get first word... And they have here.

When it comes to FPP in 2077, it only makes sense... If you are going for a more in-depth realistic feel to augmentation.
Think about this... If the player doesn't have any augmentations then they will have a normal FPP screen with their gun down at the bottom. Now... Send the player to get some eye augmentations, and you can add the extra added UI to their screen and it just feels more like you got eye augments as to where TPP it would not.

It doesn't really make sense to add the new UI to the screen in TPP, since you aren't actually viewing through the character.

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The TPP fans already got ran off reddit and the discord, people are constantly attacking them for voicing their opinions on why they prefer tpp, the official forums are about the only place left that they are holding out and haven't been drowned out by people constantly attacking them for voicing their opinion on why they prefer tpp.

Regarding the augments it doesn't really hold water imo.

There are plenty of games that have your view being "augmented" through game mechanics and do it just fine in a third person view. Having it be first person vs third makes no difference in terms of UI And the information you want to display to the user, the only difference is on one view you "see your characters backside" and the other you don't, that's literally it.

The Witcher 3 had you drinking potions that let you see better at night and other things that impact your view mechanics like the witcher senses that let you track things, worked fine in third person. Detroit: Become Human has you playing as an android and you are constantly using your robotic view to find things in scenes and pull up information a la Robocop and such, 3rd person view as well.

I don't know how they've done it exactly in Cyberpunk, but I assume it's elements like you being able to "track" people or see information over npc's heads (IE names/social information), basically think of the scene in T2 or Robocop where you're seeing the "robots" view, that kind of thing can easily be shown through third person just as well as first person if they wanted to allow it. It's not something that "must" be done in first person for technical reasons.

One scene they talked about in Cyberpunk was where a guy pulls out your eye and you see the world from the eyes perspective, that kind of thing can be switched to when it happens, basically a first person "cutscene" that kicks in if you are playing in third person. This kind of thing has been done before in tpp games, in Detroit even there's a scene that switches from third to first person view so you see the scene from that viewpoint for narrative reasons and it worked fine, then switched back to third person afterwards.

Stiler said:

The TPP fans already got ran off reddit and the discord, people are constantly attacking them for voicing their opinions on why they prefer tpp, the official forums are about the only place left that they are holding out and haven't been drowned out by people constantly attacking them for voicing their opinion on why they prefer tpp.

Regarding the augments it doesn't really hold water imo.

There are plenty of games that have your view being "augmented" through game mechanics and do it just fine in a third person view. Having it be first person vs third makes no difference in terms of UI And the information you want to display to the user, the only difference is on one view you "see your characters backside" and the other you don't, that's literally it.

The Witcher 3 had you drinking potions that let you see better at night and other things that impact your view mechanics like the witcher senses that let you track things, worked fine in third person. Detroit: Become Human has you playing as an android and you are constantly using your robotic view to find things in scenes and pull up information a la Robocop and such, 3rd person view as well.

I don't know how they've done it exactly in Cyberpunk, but I assume it's elements like you being able to "track" people or see information over npc's heads (IE names/social information), basically think of the scene in T2 or Robocop where you're seeing the "robots" view, that kind of thing can easily be shown through third person just as well as first person if they wanted to allow it. It's not something that "must" be done in first person for technical reasons.

One scene they talked about in Cyberpunk was where a guy pulls out your eye and you see the world from the eyes perspective, that kind of thing can be switched to when it happens, basically a first person "cutscene" that kicks in if you are playing in third person. This kind of thing has been done before in tpp games, in Detroit even there's a scene that switches from third to first person view so you see the scene from that viewpoint for narrative reasons and it worked fine, then switched back to third person afterwards.

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I am not meaning to "run anyone off" for their opinion, it is just my personal opinion that FPP makes more sense for this style of game.

The argument isn't that it "can't" be shown in TPP well, its just that it will make the augments feel more real if they display as the character / player would actually view them had they actually got them...

Either way, some people like TPP and some don't, I hope they can enjoy the game in the end.

Se_7_eN said:

I am not meaning to "run anyone off" for their opinion, it is just my personal opinion that FPP makes more sense for this style of game.

The argument isn't that it "can't" be shown in TPP well, its just that it will make the augments feel more real if they display as the character / player would actually view them had they actually got them...

Either way, some people like TPP and some don't, I hope they can enjoy the game in the end.

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oh no no, I wasn't referring to you or anything, most everyone here has been respectful and constructive on the subject.

I understand for many people first person will work/feel better, just would nice to have the choice there so the player can decide which they prefer instead of having the option not existing for those that'd want it.

Stiler said:

The TPP fans already got ran off reddit and the discord, people are constantly attacking them for voicing their opinions on why they prefer tpp, the official forums are about the only place left that they are holding out and haven't been drowned out by people constantly attacking them for voicing their opinion on why they prefer tpp.

Regarding the augments it doesn't really hold water imo.

There are plenty of games that have your view being "augmented" through game mechanics and do it just fine in a third person view. Having it be first person vs third makes no difference in terms of UI And the information you want to display to the user, the only difference is on one view you "see your characters backside" and the other you don't, that's literally it.

The Witcher 3 had you drinking potions that let you see better at night and other things that impact your view mechanics like the witcher senses that let you track things, worked fine in third person. Detroit: Become Human has you playing as an android and you are constantly using your robotic view to find things in scenes and pull up information a la Robocop and such, 3rd person view as well.

I don't know how they've done it exactly in Cyberpunk, but I assume it's elements like you being able to "track" people or see information over npc's heads (IE names/social information), basically think of the scene in T2 or Robocop where you're seeing the "robots" view, that kind of thing can easily be shown through third person just as well as first person if they wanted to allow it. It's not something that "must" be done in first person for technical reasons.

One scene they talked about in Cyberpunk was where a guy pulls out your eye and you see the world from the eyes perspective, that kind of thing can be switched to when it happens, basically a first person "cutscene" that kicks in if you are playing in third person. This kind of thing has been done before in tpp games, in Detroit even there's a scene that switches from third to first person view so you see the scene from that viewpoint for narrative reasons and it worked fine, then switched back to third person afterwards.

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The notion isn't that it can't be done in third person, but that the elements here are designed to both work in first person and be immersive in the sense that you're viewing the world through augmented eyes, enhanced by augmented brain.

It's no different than how Metro's visor effects and wrist watch UI are aspects that could be done in third person - have effects on the camera and have a watch HUD icon come up on screen - but are designed in way that feel intrinsically first person: wiping the condensation off your mask, checking your wrist for how much you have left on your filter, pulling out your notepad to check objectives. Or how you need to pull out your map and look at down at it while driving in Far Cry 2. Among other examples. Taken out of context, they may just seem like just a change in UI placement but in practice, their diegetic nature influences the sense of tension and atmosphere, they can help place you in the headspace of your character (running out of oxygen as your visor fogs up in the midst of combat with only a few bullets left). They aren't merely pieces of HUD with no impact on gameplay.

It's the difference between Dead Space having its UI as elements on the screen versus having them as tangible parts of your character


Cyberpunk being in first person and having a diegetic UI that is a product of your augmentations could be even more tied to gameplay than those other games. Imagine being hacked by enemies and having your vision altered or implants manipulated. Imagine Siren: Blood Curse's split-screen "seeing through your enemy's eyes" mechanic but it's you hacking into a guard's vision or having a security camera feed being transmitted to your left eye. Or imagine this scene from Altered Carbon but in first person (getting bombarded by unfiltered ads on your AR overlay). There's a huge difference between seeing it happen to your character and having it happen to you.

More_Badass said:

The notion isn't that it can't be done in third person, but that the elements here are designed to both work in first person and be immersive in the sense that you're viewing the world through augmented eyes, enhanced by augmented brain.

It's no different than how Metro's visor effects and wrist watch UI are aspects that could be done in third person - have effects on the camera and have a watch HUD icon come up on screen - but are designed in way that feel intrinsically first person: wiping the condensation off your mask, checking your wrist for how much you have left on your filter, pulling out your notepad to check objectives. Or how you need to pull out your map and look at down at it while driving in Far Cry 2. Among other examples. Taken out of context, they may just seem like just a change in UI placement but in practice, their diegetic nature influences the sense of tension and atmosphere, they can help place you in the headspace of your character (running out of oxygen as your visor fogs up in the midst of combat with only a few bullets left). They aren't merely pieces of HUD with no impact on gameplay.

Or even just the difference between your phone being a UI icon in third person being an in-game object you interact with first person in GTA V

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It's the difference between Dead Space having its UI as elements on the screen versus having them as tangible parts of your character

Cyberpunk being in first person and having a diegetic UI that is a product of your augmentations could be even more tied to gameplay than those other games. Imagine being hacked by enemies and having your vision altered or implants manipulated. Imagine Siren: Blood Curse's split-screen "seeing through your enemy's eyes" mechanic but it's you hacking into a guard's vision or having a security camera feed being transmitted to your left eye. Or imagine this scene from Altered Carbon but in first person (getting bombarded by unfiltered ads on your AR overlay). There's a huge difference between seeing it happen to your character and having it happen to you.

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I understand, but to me these kind of elements can be replicated in third person. Will they be as "immersive" as physically looking at a watch on your characters arm or phone in their hand vs seeing it as an icon on the screen? No, but I think that most tpp players can understand when your vision gets hacked (and your view becomes artfacty/corrupted or whatever they use to show that) or you see "virtual adds" popping up around your character that it's representing what your character is seeing through their eyes into the world. Just as you get new augments and suddenly see information popping up over npc's heads because of your augments, that kind of thing most people can grasp what it is representing and why it's being shown to them in the same way Batman and Witcher 3 had their detective/witcher sense views to show you things through the characters view.

If there are elements that "must" be first person they could switch to first person for those elements. So like if you use a phone and it's only done in first person? Switch the view to first person and use the phone, then when you're done the camera pans back out to the third person view. I think that's an ok compromise that many 3rd person fans could live with.

For me personally, I'm not one of the motion sick players, I will be fine if we could just use third person while walking around the world and exploring and switching into first person for combat/dialogues. I still plan to play and enjoy the game regardless of the view it ends up in, I just prefer third person from an rpg standpoint cause I like to see my character and how they look, getting new loot and watching as they visually change through those mechanics are part of the main things I enjoy about rpgs.

I do feel bad for those who've waited this long though and are prone to motion sickness and will miss out on the game because of it though, CD Projekt in the past has been the kind of company that goes out of their way to please fans and try to accommodate different things and useability options in their games. Adding a storage option, giving people a new movement system because to some it felt strange (because Geralt/Roach had weight to their movement and didn't respond immediately to movement controls). Having an optional tpp is in line with this kind of thing and will allow those players to enjoy the game while fpp players can still play their way and how cd projekt envisioned it, even if it's something they can't do at release an update down the road would be nice.

The response to the first person thing has certainly been eye-opening - I had no idea that the visual perspective alone was such a factor for so many. I wonder whether this may have taken CDPR by surprise - not to mention other devs as well?

The strong reaction indicates, at face value, that there's a sizable portion of the gaming market for whom first person games are a non-option, and simply not playable - but not all first person games are created equally, are they? As in, some with more tweakable FOV, head bob, etc, might be far less prone to inducing motion sickness? It may be that 2077 is on the better end of the scale, but of course it's impossible (I assume) to know either way until it's played.

Personally, the closest I've been to this is the last time I fired up Half Life 2 - that made me feel a little woozy, but never to the point that I've baulked at other first person titles.

Dude, after watching this video impression from Gamespot and how they described the First Person view and the actions they saw with it..... YUP YUP YUP!! GIVE ME THAT FIRST PERSON!!!



From what they've described, this game vision seems to fit way better than making the game Third Person imho.

Shit, everytime I watch the live reveal trailer I legitimately get chills. I can't think of another E3 reveal as awesome as that. Seeing how far CDPR has come makes me smile. Such a fantastic development team, and they deserve all of this.

I was already pretty excited for the game simply due to the Cyberpunk IP, but everything I've read about the game sounds even more incredible than I had imagined. The wait is going to end up driving me crazy.

Has there been any word on development and release timeline? Reading about these demo impressions, the game seems very playable and complete in its gameplay, systems and UI and whatnot. I'm feeling optimistic about this releasing next year, anywhere from mid-late 2019.

Dennis8K said:

Do you have beans to spill about the game?

No one from CD Projekt is watching this thread...….

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Kyle Rowley said:

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:OOOOO


They're on to us, run!

Kyle Rowley said:

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Hello Mr Rowley you can spill the deets to me, back in '07 I spent countless hours playing dice poker with Thaler and when I beat him he promised Geralt (me) that sometime in the near future I would find myself accost upon a black-purple field, and that a man would sojourn with me to reveal the secrets of the land of metal heads and bright lights.

I believe that time has come, and so have i

Stiler said:

The TPP fans already got ran off reddit and the discord, people are constantly attacking them for voicing their opinions on why they prefer tpp, the official forums are about the only place left that they are holding out and haven't been drowned out by people constantly attacking them for voicing their opinion on why they prefer tpp.

Regarding the augments it doesn't really hold water imo.

There are plenty of games that have your view being "augmented" through game mechanics and do it just fine in a third person view. Having it be first person vs third makes no difference in terms of UI And the information you want to display to the user, the only difference is on one view you "see your characters backside" and the other you don't, that's literally it.

The Witcher 3 had you drinking potions that let you see better at night and other things that impact your view mechanics like the witcher senses that let you track things, worked fine in third person. Detroit: Become Human has you playing as an android and you are constantly using your robotic view to find things in scenes and pull up information a la Robocop and such, 3rd person view as well.

I don't know how they've done it exactly in Cyberpunk, but I assume it's elements like you being able to "track" people or see information over npc's heads (IE names/social information), basically think of the scene in T2 or Robocop where you're seeing the "robots" view, that kind of thing can easily be shown through third person just as well as first person if they wanted to allow it. It's not something that "must" be done in first person for technical reasons.

One scene they talked about in Cyberpunk was where a guy pulls out your eye and you see the world from the eyes perspective, that kind of thing can be switched to when it happens, basically a first person "cutscene" that kicks in if you are playing in third person. This kind of thing has been done before in tpp games, in Detroit even there's a scene that switches from third to first person view so you see the scene from that viewpoint for narrative reasons and it worked fine, then switched back to third person afterwards.

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I Tweeted at them letting them know that FPP motion messes with me. If the combat and Exploration could be done in TPP optional they can keep the dialog and everything else they envisioned in FPP.

Any sort of compromise would mean I could play this game.

Kyle Rowley said:

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Hey, your game looks absolutely phenomenal. I love every single thing I've seen or heard about it. Good luck, and I look forward to seeing more!

I really hope that subway system in the trailer is functional and usable. That's more compelling to me than the usual GTA car stuff, and it'd be cool to do some Jason Bourne style subway chases.

Kyle Rowley said:

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lol

Kyle Rowley said:

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The corps are watching

Kyle Rowley said:

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Hey, how are you doing? You and your lovely team have something quite wonderful here.

Brian Damage said:

Dishonored had pretty good melee combat, as I remember. Not amazing by any means, but it felt good and worked well with the game's other systems. If they can pull off melee at least as good as that then I'll be perfectly happy.

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I love Dishonored though outside of stabbing, blocking stabs and choking I can't really think of what else there is melee-wise (I suppose the pistol might be included given its short range?). In terms of gameplay I mostly think of its agility and powers systems (which function really well in first-person).

Some of design choices in FPP with regard to melee likely just come down to both not wanting to disorient the player (so fewer complex maneuvers) and keeping the animations clear to still know what's happening.

Kyle Rowley said:

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Hi, just wanted to say, thank you and your team for making many people's (mine too) dreams into reality, please stick to your vision and build the greatest god damn game anyone's ever played ;)

Kyle Rowley said:

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no way!

Kyle Rowley said:

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Kyle Rowley said:

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Lmao

Do you have any beans to spill about the game?

Frostman said:

Lmao

Do you have any beans to spill about the game?

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I've spilled all my available beans on interviews :(.

Kyle Rowley said:

I've spilled all my available beans on interviews :(.

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Some people want that 3rd person view, can we have Roach too because it was in your previous games?
/s

Kyle Rowley said:

I've spilled all my available beans on interviews :(.

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Ahhh, well at least I've caught all the current spilled beans. The interviews were great, even the ones that asked mostly the same questions! ;)

It's great to have solid info on the game after so long.

Kyle Rowley said:

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Come on dudes, please release some gameplay footage already. We want to see at least a smidgen of what the press are seeing. Pretty please with neon lights on top!

nib95 said:

Come on dudes, please release some gameplay footage already. We want to see at least a smidgen of what the press are seeing. Pretty please with neon lights on top!

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Wow yes. Just a cool snippet of the demo.

Kyle Rowley said:

I've spilled all my available beans on interviews :(.

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You guys got to show that weather/day and night cycle! hopefully next time. I don't care if it's a showcase demo for how that works.

Kyle Rowley said:

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Create a page where we can donate. Make goal 10k. Once amount is paid we'll get a trailer.
Put in tiers.
Donate money you got to charity (fully)
Become even better company
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Profit?

Smh

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Ayy what you and the team are making sounds incredible.
Glad you're taking your time to create what sounds (and looks) like pretty much the game of the forever.

Good luck during the rest of development!

Kyle Rowley said:

I've spilled all my available beans on interviews :(.

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First of all, thank you and your team for an astounding job. Guys, I hope you won't listen to haters and continue crafting your vision. Oh btw... you should visit ERA more often. Maybe AMA? Would be cool. Thanks once again.

Kyle Rowley said:

I've spilled all my available beans on interviews :(.

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Kyle Rowley said:

I've spilled all my available beans on interviews :(.

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Let me just say that the game sounds amazing and the trailer looked beyond incredible. Truly beyond what I was expecting.

On a selfish note - Please please please tell me that we can augment our characters to have chrome skin like the female character that was shown at that red carpet event in the trailer.

Bansai said:

Just found this video:



Wish I was there, those live reactions sound really cool.

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Yep, that mirrors what happened in our living room. Bring it home, CDPR... we have faith in you.

Lol. He popped in.

Anyways I much prefer TPS over fps sl it's kind of a bummer.
Can live with either tho. Just give me the game

Kyle Rowley said:

I've spilled all my available beans on interviews :(.

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Please stay well fed...

It's good to see you around anyway, even if there's little or nothing more to tell.
It's a rollercoaster ride, fasten your seatbelt, some people are serious loop-de-loops, specially when they don't consider the drastic changes that can happen in close to 60 years.

I've been thoroughly impressed by the trailer, i freeze framed all the way to digest it all properly, it was dense in content, and that's much appreciated.
Serious props to everyone involved, and take all your time.

I can't think of a time I've been this excited about a game where I haven't even seen an ounce of gameplay yet....


This fucking killing me, bros.

Stiler said:

https://pcgamesn.com/cyberpunk-2077/cyberpunk-2077-weapons

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Cyberpunk 2077 will feature both melee and gun combat, with the melee combat being transferred from The Witcher 3. The information was confirmed at E3 by CD Projekt Red associate designer Kyle Rowley.

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Kyle Rowley said:

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I caught one!

Now, assure me that HUD is something that can be toggled off with the push of a button.

You don't go through 10 years of development on an FPS just to deliver a product unsuitable for screenshot taking and walking simulation.

johancruijff said:

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This will be glorious to witness.

Baton & Katana - Main Weapon

• Kosugi Tonfa or Excalibur Nightstick w/ Mace (or Constitutional Arms Telescopic Electro-Baton)
• Mifune Masterwork Quality Dual Jian or Katana

Stun Gun & SMG with HE/HVAP Ammo Clips - Secondary Weapon

• Dynatech Handtaser
• Ingram MAC 34 855eb (HV Ammo, Explosive Charge, HESH - High Explosive Squash Head)

Equipment/Skills - NetRunner Hacking Focus

I'm just going to throw my opinion in here since it's kind of the opposite reaction to the third person only people.

I actually HATE third person. Honestly, I dislike anything other than first person 3D games. Even 2D isometric or otherwise games like Stardew Valley, I'll be like, man, but what if this was in first person (ala 98' era 3d graphics or like Minecraft without the stupid voxels)?

If any game isn't in first person that I am looking forward to, I am disappointed quite a bit. First person perspective just pulls you down to the ground in an immersive way that any other perspective just can't do. I'm not really articulate enough to really explain it well, but I just can't get immersed in the world being pulled up and over the shoulder of the character I'm supposed to play. Not to mention having a portion of your view constantly blocked by a character is very annoying. Want to admire the sky in a game? Well here's a panty shot of your character instead. PASS.

Having said that, I'll still bite my tongue and play them anyways. CDPR should try and accomadate motion sickness best they can with FOV, crosshair, headbob options. But not changing the perspective. I hope they're unmoved in wanting first person perspective. Save the third person perspective for character action games like Bayonetta or DMC where it really belongs.

Jams775 said:

I'm just going to throw my opinion in here since it's kind of the opposite reaction to the third person only people.

I actually HATE third person. Honestly, I dislike anything other than first person 3D games. Even 2D isometric or otherwise games like Stardew Valley, I'll be like, man, but what if this was in first person (ala 98' era 3d graphics or like Minecraft without the stupid voxels)?

If any game isn't in first person that I am looking forward to, I am disappointed quite a bit. First person perspective just pulls you down to the ground in an immersive way that any other perspective just can't do. I'm not really articulate enough to really explain it well, but I just can't get immersed in the world being pulled up and over the shoulder of the character I'm supposed to play. Not to mention having a portion of your view constantly blocked by a character is very annoying. Want to admire the sky in a game? Well here's a panty shot of your character instead. PASS.

Having said that, I'll still bite my tongue and play them anyways. CDPR should try and accomadate motion sickness best they can with FOV, crosshair, headbob options. But not changing the perspective. I hope they're unmoved in wanting first person perspective. Save the third person perspective for character action games like Bayonetta or DMC where it really belongs.

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Interesting to see someone from the hating third person side pop up.

You feel 3rd person only belongs in character action? What about turn based games? Especially PC RPGs with RTWP gameplay where you control a team of characters? Strategy? etc etc

People throw the immersion word around. I can see how it's more immersive. IRL is the ultimate immersion, and that's first person. But for others, seeing the character interact with other characters, the world, the gameplay, connects us to it more.

Eros said:

Interesting to see someone from the hating third person side pop up.

You feel 3rd person only belongs in character action? What about turn based games? Especially PC RPGs with RTWP gameplay where you control a team of characters? Strategy? etc etc

People throw the immersion word around. I can see how it's more immersive. IRL is the ultimate immersion, and that's first person. But for others, seeing the character interact with other characters, the world, the gameplay, connects us to it more.

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You seem to be conflating top down and isometric perspective with third person perspective but I assure you they are not the same. In fact if you don't lump all of those perspectives together there are almost no games which are both third person and fit within those genres.

Ferris Bueller said:

You seem to be conflating top down and isometric perspective with third person perspective but I assure you they are not the same. In fact if you don't lump all of those perspectives together there are almost no games which are both third person and fit within those genres.

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Gotcha. I guess better question would be if he feels Persona 5 gameplay should be like SMT4/Etrian Odyssey.

My most anticipated game since Burnout 2.

Any links to good resources, reactions etc other than the Gamespot one?

I'm surprised at what this game turned out to be. And I'm craving to see gameplay footage.
It's going to be a long wait.

My biggest question right now is if augmentation is represented visually on your character, and what the scope of your cybernetics are. Mostly, I want to know if I can have mechanical limbs.