Nintendo stock down almost 7% after the E3 showcase (down another 5.27% per Tokyo Stock Exchange)

Pablo Mesa said:

what were you Expecting? Mario Kart 9??

Nintendo games as every other company take time. they can release a new game of a different genre every month every year

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You can say that, but if Nintendo can't do a better job of securing significant volume in 3rd party support/exclusives, then they should being expanding their own development capacity to compensate. Particularly when they had teams working on 3DS games well after the Switch launch. They are publishing about the same amount of content as Sony this year, yet have a fraction of the support outside from 3rd parties and/or exclusive partners.

New Fang said:

I'm happy Nintendo is getting some real blowback for this E3 showing. Not just from fans, but actual stock holders and financial media. Hopefully they realize they need to appeal to a broader audience at E3 than Smash and Pokemon fans.


This is exactly what bothered me. It's RPGs, and Smash. I would have loved to see a racing game in the mix.


Yes, and the lack of 2018 games is part of the problem. They don't have a big game for August or September.

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what. there are plenty of 3rd party stuff from here to september. Monster hunter comes in August and Dark Souls is a summer release too.

Instro said:

You can say that, but if Nintendo can't do a better job of securing significant volume in 3rd party support/exclusives, then they should being expanding their own development capacity to compensate. Particularly when they had teams working on 3DS games well after the Switch launch. They are publishing about the same amount of content as Sony this year, yet have a fraction of the support outside from 3rd parties and/or exclusive partners.

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Not gonna derail the thread into the same old argument but short answer to "What Can Nintendo Do now to get more 3rd party"
Ans: Nothing

Pablo Mesa said:

Not gonna derail the thread into the same old argument but short answer to "What Can Nintendo Do now to get more 3rd party"
Ans: Nothing

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Make a system that features specs that are up there with SONY and MS.

Switch said:

Make a system that features specs that are up there with SONY and MS.

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Good luck trying to get that level of performance crammed into a 6 in. tablet.

Instro said:

You can say that, but if Nintendo can't do a better job of securing significant volume in 3rd party support/exclusives, then they should being expanding their own development capacity to compensate. Particularly when they had teams working on 3DS games well after the Switch launch. They are publishing about the same amount of content as Sony this year, yet have a fraction of the support outside from 3rd parties and/or exclusive partners.

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They don't need to expand their development teams, because they've already got plenty. Their handheld teams weren't fully transitioned over yet when the Switch released, so their projects will need more time considering this is a new console. Besides, the Switch isn't exactly starving for first party releases either. We're still getting at least a game a month from Nintendo, Wii U ports or otherwise. If this is what a Switch drought looks like, then it's still leagues better than past Nintendo droughts.

Switch said:

Make a system that features specs that are up there with SONY and MS.

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yeah, just what the market need, another PConsole with off shelve parts, cause who needs creativity and RnD when you can sell a poor man PC to the masses, Im being serious

Switch said:

Make a system that features specs that are up there with SONY and MS.

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Yes. Make a real console.

TheMisterManGuy said:

Good luck trying to get that level of performance crammed into a 6 in. tablet.



They don't need to expand their development teams, because they've already got plenty. Their handheld teams weren't fully transitioned over yet when the Switch released, so their projects will need more time considering this is a new console. Besides, the Switch isn't exactly starving for first party releases either. We're still getting at least a game a month from Nintendo, Wii U ports or otherwise. If this is what a Switch drought looks like, then it's still leagues better than past Nintendo droughts.

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They have almost no studios outside of Japan, and many of their non EPD studios(i.e. handheld studios) are very small in size that will likely need support from Nintendo or outsourcing to make Switch games. Overall Nintendo is a significantly smaller company than SIE. That doesn't strike me as a great situation, or to be described as having plenty of resources, when 3rd party support is so limited.

Instro said:

and many of their non EPD studios(i.e. handheld studios) are very small in size that will likely need support from Nintendo or outsourcing to make Switch games.

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Not really. The Switch is so easy and straight forward to develop for that they should adjust fine. If they want to make a game with a handheld-like development cycle and scope, they can, especially since they can just use any of the modern middle-ware options the Switch supports. Just look at Good Feel with Yoshi on Unreal Engine 4.

Switch said:

Make a system that features specs that are up there with SONY and MS.

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Gamecube. It didn't.

TheMisterManGuy said:

Not really. The Switch is so easy and straight forward to develop for that they should adjust fine. If they want to make a game with a handheld-like development cycle and scope, they can, especially since they can just use any of the modern middle-ware options the Switch supports. Just look at Good Feel with Yoshi on Unreal Engine 4.

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The game that just got delayed to a TBA 2019 title? I'm not sure that helps your point. Btw Good Feel is a 100 person studio that actually has experience in the HD arena, and struggled to get Woolly World out in a timely manner. Now they are struggling again. We just saw Fire Emblem get a significant delay as well. All concerning. How do you think it's going to be for teams half the size like Alpha Dream with no HD console or modern engine experience. We already know how bad, because they've been stuck making 3DS ports of old games for a couple years now. I mean Bamco has basically become a partner/developer on a number of Nintendo IP now because they can't do it themselves.

Shoot look at what happened with Zelda. Half of Monolith had to be pulled in to help get the game completed. None of that points to a healthy development capacity/pipeline.

Shares seem to going back up.

The time to buy back in was yesterday. I hope nobody missed the boat.

TheBeardedOne said:

Yes. Make a real console.

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You mean a Gamecube?

Worst possible move Nintendo could make.

This thread look at lot more ridiculous now that the share drop has been reduced.

Reggies PR and Panic Buttons announcement of an announcement worked!

Instro said:

The game that just got delayed to a TBA 2019 title? I'm not sure that helps your point. Btw Good Feel is a 100 person studio that actually has experience in the HD arena, and struggled to get Woolly World out in a timely manner. Now they are struggling again.

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I think that has to do with them reworking the flip mechanic rather than struggling to use an engine. Wooly World's long dev cycle was also caused by a similar change in direction during its development.

Instro said:

How do you think it's going to be for teams half the size like Alpha Dream with no HD console or modern engine experience. We already know how bad, because they've been stuck making 3DS ports of old games for a couple years now.

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That's what I mean. It'll take time for these developers to get fully accustomed to the Switch. But they will eventually. Which is why I point to 2019 where their titles will be ready to show.

Instro said:

I mean Bamco has basically become a partner/developer on a number of Nintendo IP now because they can't do it themselves.

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Nintendo never developed the Smash Bros. series in-house. HAL's done the first two games, then an ad-hoc team developed Brawl, now Bamco is doing the series.

Instro said:

Shoot look at what happened with Zelda. Half of Monolith had to be pulled in to help get the game completed. None of that points to a healthy development capacity/pipeline.

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Zelda's a massive open world game that started development on a failed console who's elongated development cycle had a lot to do with the producer wanting to make the game as big as possible.

Switch said:

Make a system that features specs that are up there with SONY and MS.

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I mean you could have a Switch that powerful. It'd cost the earth though

I hardly heard the Switch mentioned at all during E3, probably due to the sheer amount of third-party games that are skipping the platform.

Now with the talk of next-gen systems, Nintendo needs to step it up.

DeathyG said:

I hardly heard the Switch mentioned at all during E3, probably due to the sheer amount of third-party games that are skipping the platform.

Now with the talk of next-gen systems, Nintendo needs to step it up.

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Actually the best news for Nintendo is that outside of indie, Nintendo singlehandedly sold the Switch off of their own efforts and third parties have not done a damn thing for hardware sales (indies have been great but truthfully have probably not sold very many Switches either).

Meaning, next gen should have no impact on them whatsoever at third parties current support rate.

DeathyG said:

I hardly heard the Switch mentioned at all during E3, probably due to the sheer amount of third-party games that are skipping the platform.

Now with the talk of next-gen systems, Nintendo needs to step it up.

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I'm sure Smash and Pokemon will sell gang busters, but for whatever reason they haven't had a huge amount of social media presence. In terms of YouTube views from E3 for individual games, Smash is at 13th place in terms of YT view rankings, whilst Pokemon is the next Nintendo game at 37th place.

http://vizioneck.com/forum/index.php?topic=6396.0

nib95 said:

I'm sure Smash and Pokemon will sell gang busters, but for whatever reason they haven't had a huge amount of social media presence. In terms of YouTube views from E3 for individual games, Smash is at 13th place in terms of YT view rankings, whilst Pokemon is the next Nintendo game at 37th place.

http://vizioneck.com/forum/index.php?topic=6396.0

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Pokémon is low because it hadn't had a reveal trailer and it's just a 48 minute Treehouse segment. Its reveal trailer came 2 weeks ago and has amassed a combined 13+ million views on Youtube.

It wasn't revealed at E3 so it wasn't talked about as much. When it was revealed, it was talked about a lot.

nib95 said:

I'm sure Smash and Pokemon will sell gang busters, but for whatever reason they haven't had a huge amount of social media presence. In terms of YouTube views from E3 for individual games, Smash is at 13th place in terms of YT view rankings, whilst Pokemon is the next Nintendo game at 37th place.

http://vizioneck.com/forum/index.php?topic=6396.0

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Pokemon barely had a presence at E3. As has been mentioned it has already had its big reveal.

Does smash bros have a shorter trailer than that 20 minute boreathon? I only did a quick search on google but I'm not sitting through that thing.

Serebii said:

Pokémon is low because it hadn't had a reveal trailer and it's just a 48 minute Treehouse segment. Its reveal trailer came 2 weeks ago and has amassed a combined 13+ million views on Youtube.

It wasn't revealed at E3 so it wasn't talked about as much. When it was revealed, it was talked about a lot.

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I didn't realise that. Assumed the Direct footage plus perhaps even some new sliced material would have made for a new E3 trailer or something. Weird that Nintendo didn't bother with that given more E3 exposure could have helped.

Adventureracing said:

Pokemon barely had a presence at E3. As has been mentioned it has already had its big reveal.

Does smash bros have a shorter trailer than that 20 minute boreathon? I only did a quick search on google but I'm not sitting through that thing.

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It has a Challenger trailer



A Ridley reveal trailer


It also has 65 different character trailers.

All of these are a bit hard to find on the official site so don't have the exposure you'd think

Strat said:

Thank you. Paints a dire picture there. Aug-Oct is rough.

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you think an advanced port of pokemon go is not dire?

Switch said:

Make a system that features specs that are up there with SONY and MS.

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Gamecube did that, didn't turn out really profitable

TheBeardedOne said:

Yes. Make a real console.

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Great idea! The GameCube, after all, was a roaring success that competed toe-to-toe with the competition.

GameCube had a shitty controller and disc format definitely held it back

Nintendo also abandoned the US shooter market that had basically saved the N64 from disaster

Chitown B said:

you think an advanced port of pokemon go is not dire?

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It's not a port of Pokémon GO. What the hell are you on about?

Saucer said:

You mean a Gamecube?

Worst possible move Nintendo could make.

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I mean a regular console. Not one with mini disks or strange controllers.

Nintendo is at fault with the GameCube, like it has been since. They release consoles but don't support them enough, all the while releasing them with gimmicks that make them less appealing to third parties and hardcore gamers.

requiem said:

Great idea! The GameCube, after all, was a roaring success that competed toe-to-toe with the competition.

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Due to Nintendo. Then they followed that up with one of the worst consoles in gaming history.

Vault said:

GameCube had a shitty controller and disc format definitely held it back

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Yeah. And a lack of support.

TheBeardedOne said:

Then they followed that up with one of the worst consoles in gaming history.

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The Wii did amazingly...

TheBeardedOne said:

I mean a regular console. Not one with mini disks or strange controllers.

Nintendo is at fault with the GameCube, like it has been since. They release consoles but don't support them enough, all the while releasing them with gimmicks that make them less appealing to third parties and hardcore gamers.



Due to Nintendo. Then they followed that up with one of the worst consoles in gaming history.



Yeah. And a lack of support.

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If we're talking about what works best for Nintendo...I'd think the Wii is an example of Nintendo at their apex console wise.

Serebii said:

The Wii did amazingly...

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It sold well, but it wasn't a good console. Gimmicky, full of shovelware, first party games were few and far between.

Nintendo in its prime was the Super Nintendo. Their first three consoles were phenomenal. It has been downhill since.

TheBeardedOne said:

It sold well, but it wasn't a good console. Gimmicky, full of shovelware, first party games were few and far between.

Nintendo in its prime was the Super Nintendo. Their first three consoles were phenomenal. It has been downhill since.

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Yeah SNES is amazing, as was N64 but I don't think your personal opinion (or my own) really matter in the context of this thread.

People thinking Nintendo would get third party parity with MS or Sony by releasing a comparable system are naive.

Third parties have built stong ties with them over the last decades while Nintendo has been the odd out man out of the room. While a Nintendo home console may be marginally stronger than Switch in terms of AAA third party support, it would be significantly worse than Gamecube (which was already third tier) because Nintendo is that much further detached from them since that era.

They would settle for a measly, distant third place with a PS/Xbox like console, while in 2017 Switch was the fastest selling platform of all time. They definitely made the right choice branching out to do their own thing rather than leaving themselves at the mercy of third party.

TheBeardedOne said:

It sold well, but it wasn't a good console. Gimmicky, full of shovelware, first party games were few and far between.

Nintendo in its prime was the Super Nintendo. Their first three consoles were phenomenal. It has been downhill since.

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Lmao this thread gets worse and worse.

TheBeardedOne said:

It sold well, but it wasn't a good console. Gimmicky, full of shovelware, first party games were few and far between.

Nintendo in its prime was the Super Nintendo. Their first three consoles were phenomenal. It has been downhill since.

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Regardless of what you think of the Wii, there are people who like it. So your opinion isn't an objective reflection of its reception.

Among my friends and colleagues, both MS and Sony conferences made up huge buzz and discussions around various games. The Switch direct was the complete opposite, everyone just agreed it was lackluster and that the Smash segment was like a car crash in slow motion.

So I missed the buy in day eh. :(

zoukka said:

Among my friends and colleagues, both MS and Sony conferences made up huge buzz and discussions around various games. The Switch direct was the complete opposite, everyone just agreed it was lackluster and that the Smash segment was like a car crash in slow motion.

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Are they Smash Brothers fans? Pretty odd reaction I think.

Renna Hazel said:

Are they Smash Brothers fans? Pretty odd reaction I think.

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It was probably not about Smash being bad or irrelevant in their eyes, but more of everyone wanting to see new and surprising reveals when the Smash segment just went on and on and on...

Nintendo made a decision a long time ago that their world doesn't revolve around E3 and I think it was a smart decision. Throughout the year we are getting Directs which reveal new games. If Nintendo decided to save these all for E3 announcements then it would have been a stronger showing for them. E3 is mostly for the AAA market to flex.

Pablo Mesa said:

yeah, just what the market need, another PConsole with off shelve parts, cause who needs creativity and RnD when you can sell a poor man PC to the masses, Im being serious

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You are being serious and I completely agree with you. People who think a lack of computing horsepower is where Nintendo's shortcomings are understand nothing about the business. NOTHING.

A 4K Mario doesn't/wouldn't address any of people's disappointment with their showing at this year's e3(for the record I personally wasn't a disappointment. They said for months now it was going to be smash heavey AND..... it was Smash heavy).

TheBeardedOne said:

Due to Nintendo. Then they followed that up with one of the worst consoles in gaming history.

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You really don't know what you are talking about. Outside your personal taste which I could give two flips about the Wii was incredibly successful. You are spouting off personal taste opinions like they are objective truths brah.

TheBeardedOne said:

It sold well, but it wasn't a good console. Gimmicky, full of shovelware, first party games were few and far between.

Nintendo in its prime was the Super Nintendo. Their first three consoles were phenomenal. It has been downhill since.

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The Wii was awesome. Simple interface, games you could play with everyone along with great traditional experiences like Prime 3, Galaxy twins, Twilight Princess, and DKC Returns. And the first expansive and affordable way to play retro games, in a way I still don't think anyone has matched since, Nintendo included.

The Switch seems determined to top it, but the Wii remains the richest home console experience I've enjoyed to date, and I've owned every Nintendo console so far.

Making a real "console" will kill Nintendo. If Nintendo get into the graphic arm race you will have one Zelda per decade. Even right now they are having problem pushing games out. Switch is the perfect console for Nintendo, they just need to work better with the games.

Also, I'd like to ask you guys to stop making comments like "time to buy back" unless you absolutely know what you are talking about (aka look at your own trade record and ask yourself if you are qualified to make recommendation). Suggesting stock is not recommending videogames, it's serious business.

I would like to remind us that all this talk, all this Nintendoom is not caused by sales numbers, not caused by actual events that would affect Nintendo's bottom line, but because Nintendo's stock went down a bit. Like it does. THIS is the thing we are basing are "Nintendo is 2 steps away from doom from". Not anything that would actually show this, but from freaking investors, who probably were more concerned from mobile titles than actual games. It's amazing the lengths some will go to scream bile at a company they are no longer the audience for.

The switch is fine as a hardware. Its power is as close as it could be, or almost, to receive downported versions of virtually any game. If Nintendo wants third parties on their machine, they have to lay down the dollarz. Either for ports, simultaneous releases, or to fund some tailor made exclusive (what I would like to see the most).
Coming to the E3, biggest game event of the year, and giving the direct they have, is just being cocky and I hope it'll backlash hard on them. The switch can still be the most amazing device ever released but they'll have to do something about thist parties for that.

Xaszatm said:

I would like to remind us that all this talk, all this Nintendoom is not caused by sales numbers, not caused by actual events that would affect Nintendo's bottom line, but because Nintendo's stock went down a bit. Like it does. THIS is the thing we are basing are "Nintendo is 2 steps away from doom from". Not anything that would actually show this, but from freaking investors, who probably were more concerned from mobile titles than actual games. It's amazing the lengths some will go to scream bile at a company they are no longer the audience for.

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Everyone informed and intelligent in this thread already know it's much ado about nothing. We're just posting here for entertainment value.

FrostyLemon said:

Nintendo made a decision a long time ago that their world doesn't revolve around E3 and I think it was a smart decision. Throughout the year we are getting Directs which reveal new games. If Nintendo decided to save these all for E3 announcements then it would have been a stronger showing for them. E3 is mostly for the AAA market to flex.

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I think that the presentation would've been stronger with Smash in the middle, a more extensive look at the third party games shown in a hurry, and a surprise announcement to end. I also wish that there hadn't been so many leaks, as Fortnite would've been a major bombshell if it wasn't leaked beforehand.

But I agree about the Directs. They are so much more enjoyable throughout the year because they are announced on short notice and always include something unexpected. This one got lost in the crowd at E3 and just wasn't tailored enough to the E3 audience to be satisfying, even if what was shown will drive console sales more than the stuff the E3 crowd goes crazy over.

The 1-2 punch of BOTW and Odyssey satiated traditional gamers in a way that is almost impossible to match, but releasing Mario Party, Pokemon, and Smash in consecutive holiday months on a system that also now plays Fortnite is going to move far more consoles than last year's lineup did.

Switch won't even be two years old this Christmas, and its first party catalog alone will include Zelda, 3D Mario, Pokémon, Smash, Splatoon 2, Mario Party, Mario Kart, Donkey Kong, Kirby, Mario Tennis, and Xenoblade. It's going to be a holiday for the ages.

I get frustrated with Nintendo as much as the next guy but all this Nintendooomed talk that comes up from time to time is getting old fast, and is pure nonsense.