Pretty big news. This was posted in one of the other threads, unfortunately it didn't get much attention apparently. Seems like we can expect much more 60fps games on next-gen consoles! Thanks to Wollan for finding this!
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Phil Spencer about next Xbox: The "next thing" is framerate, CPU/GPU balance is out of whack
- Thread starter Gemüsepizza
- Start date
Pretty big news. This was posted in one of the other threads, unfortunately it didn't get much attention apparently. Seems like we can expect much more 60fps games on next-gen consoles! Thanks to Wollan for finding this!
It helps too that since 2013 cpu's have barely advanced but they have grown less expensive (amd finally has competitive parts)
Next gen is going to be one where pc doesn't have that enormous advantage
Next gen is going to be one where pc doesn't have that enormous advantage
I'd highly suggest people watch the whole interview. Jeff interviews Phil every year and it's always fascinating.
I would rather they use the cpu to improve a.i and other simulations than waste it on framerate. Not all games need to be 60 fps.
The one sensible man in video games management.
I am waiting for the day when people realise that the highest resolution in the world is pointless if the frame rate is terrible. And yes 30fps is just not good enough for the vast majority of games.
I am waiting for the day when people realise that the highest resolution in the world is pointless if the frame rate is terrible. And yes 30fps is just not good enough for the vast majority of games.
I think Phil might not understand how developers work, or in this particular case is ignoring that for the purposes of this interview.
It doesn't matter how big the bag is, a developer will try to stuff more into it than it can hold. Give them a 5 pound bag? Somebody will try to put 10 pounds into it.
Additionally, FPS isn't a hard technical limit, at least within the ranges we're talking about here. It is a trade-off. You can sacrifice FPS to do other things and a lot of developers on console make that sacrifice purposely. No amount of hardware is going to change that thanks to the 5 pound bag rule.
As somebody who spent most of his career supporting developers I can tell you that "throw more hardware at it" is a band-aid when it comes to fitting the developers' vision into your current hardware footprint. The more hardware you give them the more time they spend on feature creep instead of optimization and you end up in the same place you started.
It doesn't matter how big the bag is, a developer will try to stuff more into it than it can hold. Give them a 5 pound bag? Somebody will try to put 10 pounds into it.
Additionally, FPS isn't a hard technical limit, at least within the ranges we're talking about here. It is a trade-off. You can sacrifice FPS to do other things and a lot of developers on console make that sacrifice purposely. No amount of hardware is going to change that thanks to the 5 pound bag rule.
As somebody who spent most of his career supporting developers I can tell you that "throw more hardware at it" is a band-aid when it comes to fitting the developers' vision into your current hardware footprint. The more hardware you give them the more time they spend on feature creep instead of optimization and you end up in the same place you started.
I hope he never reads your post and actually does put a huge emphasis on framerate.
Finally, someone who knows what these consoles truly need.
Also, Phil, you should really respond to me on Twitter. I've made many attempts to communicate but they seem to go unanswered. I'm just a little worried, Phil. But don't worry, Phil. I'll be fine.
Also, Phil, you should really respond to me on Twitter. I've made many attempts to communicate but they seem to go unanswered. I'm just a little worried, Phil. But don't worry, Phil. I'll be fine.
Phil, please respond. Did I say something wrong? Phil? Phil.
I think the comparison to PC he drew is giving us options.
Giving us a 4k/30fps or a 1080-1440p/60fps option. But they need hardware capable of doing that seamlessly. Which is what he is getting at.
Yeah, I don't think he has a clue. You should probably get in touch with him to give him the lowdown.
Well if he gave them the best possible CPU for the next Xbox and developers still try to "break the bag", can't really blame Phil for that.
Everyone knows this, and this was best they could get in APU back in 2013, so its not their fault and they made conscious decision to go with it. Tech has improved, and this time its possible to get balanced CPU.
Ugh. It's a fact that the Jaguar CPUs in the consoles this generation are not balanced with the GPU. There are plenty of games on Pro and X for example, where the GPU is easily capable of serving up 60fps but the CPU is holding it back.
What Phil is saying here, is that the CPU needs to be more balanced, and as a result it will allow for an increased number of opportunities for higher framerate games. Which is a fact. Especially for open world games, or games with a greater use of physics and AI.
Of course devs do what they want. Point is in consoles its completely unbalanced. The X has a 6tf gpu and a 2013 notebook cpu. If you had a PC it would be a ridiculous set up.
Good job ignoring the second half of the sentence, cupcake. He almost certainly has a clue, but the marketing clue is taking precedence in this particular instance.
AI is hard and people good at it don't make games. Not to mention if it's too complex, it's not fun to play and rockstar said most players barely notice it when they play.
But Pinello said it was the "most balanced system".
It is quite obvious the CPU has been the bottleneck since 2013, and there is no other choice but to improve it for next gen, otherwise it is a waste of GPU silicon.
It is quite obvious the CPU has been the bottleneck since 2013, and there is no other choice but to improve it for next gen, otherwise it is a waste of GPU silicon.
Even If you are right, a better CPU/GPU could give us more chances to "performance mode" being a standard.
Uuh, pretty sure it's up to the devs to decide that, and not something the hardware makers can guarantee.
Do what some ps4 (i guess Xbox too) games do: let the players choose.
Just make an option if you want higher resolutution, higher framerate or something in between. Done.
--> but this depends on the developers and not Xbox/Sony. But at least with more power they get more responsibility.
Just make an option if you want higher resolutution, higher framerate or something in between. Done.
--> but this depends on the developers and not Xbox/Sony. But at least with more power they get more responsibility.
Nobody is using the word "guarantee". A better balanced system with CPUs that aren't severely underpowered will allow more developers to create games with higher frame rates.
It'll also help VR.
He said this when the OG Xbox launched, compared to the PS4, back in a Gaf post.
Interesting that he'd say that. I certainly hope we see 60fps become more viable for even more genres next gen. It feels like this generation, graphics got "good enough" that most FPS devs would target 60fps and then push the visual fidelity as far as the framerate and other elements allowed. I hope that we can get devs of other genres saying that graphics have gotten good enough that they can focus on the framerate first.
So what is he supposed to do? He's talking about balancing the CPU and GPU to have them far less out of whack compared to the current generation, which is a good thing. And you're stating that it will barely matter as developers will just crank up the graphics anyway to the point where the framerate will chug regardless.
Like, removing the bottleneck is at least going to make it less likely there'll be framerate issues going forward. We all know that certain games will be too taxing already. But there's nothing he can do about that.
Oooh, I'm intently interested now.
The developers decide based on the hardware available to them.
Well a better CPU for nextgen system is obvious, so devs will finally have 60 fps as an option for most games without having to compromise too much on their visions, and other devs will have the option to make better use of the CPU by having better AI/physics in their games. This current gen I think the CPU wasn't able to do either, as it wasn't that powerful compared to even lastgen offerings. I hope we at least get a 2nd gen Ryzen at 3.0 GHZ, that should be many times more powerful than what we have now.
