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Kongroo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
2,972
Ottawa, Ontario, CA
There are a lot of assumptions that need to be made here. We can't know for sure that the man had racist intent, although it is very likely.

I have lifeguard friends who have told me that the showering rule is the most awkward one to enforce. They are expected by management to mention the rule to guests.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,441
Phoenix
Exactly. And it's not an issue of "victim mentality". It's just come the fuck on?! Dude ONLY asks the Black woman and her kid? I bet his punk ass would ask some Deebo looking mofo that shit. Nope. He'd be like "hello sir. Mighty fine weather we're having".

No one saying this isn't about race got an answer why he only do that to a Black person. Not a peep about that shit.
Just a coincidence I'm sure. Probably the same amount of chance that the guy actually was a health inspector from another county.
 

JoeNut

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,482
UK
User Banned (1 Week): Downplaying the existence of racism based on personal experience
I'm sure JoeNut will not post here again, but how do you read a story about a white man who lied about his occupation to stalk a black woman and her daughter around a pool asking if they showered while ignoring white pool patrons and be like "yeah, dude was a dick, but a racist? Eh". How?! Seriously, how?!
Happy to post again if necessary. I guess as others have said I'm just not exposed to this stuff so don't understand it. I'd rather see him as a Dick than as a racist Cos as far as I know I don't come across many racists. Perhaps I'm just part of the ignorant white people you're talking about.
 

skillzilla81

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,043
There are a lot of assumptions that need to be made here. We can't know for sure that the man had racist intent, although it is very likely.

I have lifeguard friends who have told me that the showering rule is the most awkward one to enforce. They are expected by management to mention the rule to guests.

Yup, makes sense to compare a dude only harassing a black woman (and only a black woman) and her child to lifeguards doing part of their duties.

Makes 100% sense.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,441
Phoenix
There are a lot of assumptions that need to be made here. We can't know for sure that the man had racist intent, although it is very likely.

I have lifeguard friends who have told me that the showering rule is the most awkward one to enforce. They are expected by management to mention the rule to guests.
Again, this is not that situation. If there are showers by the pool and every guest is expected to shower then fine. But, these people were already in the pool. They were not "simply reminded" of the rules, they were very blatantly asked if they showered and were then followed around and kept getting asked. This person did not work there, they were a rando that decided to harass a Black woman and child AND lie about being a health inspector so that they had some kind of authority to do so. See, even they knew they had to lie to justify the shit they were trying to pull.
 

Shoreu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,010
Been on the list
Motel-manager-pouring-acidCU_1964-2.jpg
What is this?
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,362
New York
There are a lot of assumptions that need to be made here. We can't know for sure that the man had racist intent, although it is very likely.

I have lifeguard friends who have told me that the showering rule is the most awkward one to enforce. They are expected by management to mention the rule to guests.

So unless you have 100% proof we have to give a piece of shit like this the benefit of the doubt? Nah. Fuck that. That just allows bigots to continue their bullshit without getting rightfully called out for it. Sorry. Meanwhile we get thrown under the bus to fucks like him by our "oh we just don't know for sure" allies? I have the biggest eyeroll in Han history going on right now....

If we allies trust our fucking judgment on this shit. Dear God. No other reason he'd approach ONLY a Black person with this shit. And if you're thinking "maybe he saw something" you're stanning for a bigot and giving them the benefit of the doubt over us. Gross. Go wash that shit off...
 

JDSN

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,129
You all should know better to ignore posts that have that "Im just a well meaning guy for europe, land of tolerance, asking a question" crap
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,362
New York
Happy to post again if necessary. I guess as others have said I'm just not exposed to this stuff so don't understand it. I'd rather see him as a Dick than as a racist Cos as far as I know I don't come across many racists. Perhaps I'm just part of the ignorant white people you're talking about.

I do come across racists breh. I got a PhD in passive-aggressive European sociology. Trust me.
 

vanmardigan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
710
Happy to post again if necessary. I guess as others have said I'm just not exposed to this stuff so don't understand it. I'd rather see him as a Dick than as a racist Cos as far as I know I don't come across many racists. Perhaps I'm just part of the ignorant white people you're talking about.

I respect this honest response. Thank you. In the case of this specific story, the circumstances mentioned in the article and thread are damning. This is an easy call, friend.


I have lifeguard friends who have told me that the showering rule is the most awkward one to enforce. They are expected by management to mention the rule to guests.

Dude was not an employee of the hotel and even if he was the hotel didn't have any such policy in place. You're making an irrelevant argument.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,441
Phoenix
"When they drug us out in bathing suits and they carried us out to the jail, they wouldn't feed me because they said I didn't have on any clothes. I said, 'Well, that's the way you locked me up!'

I mean fuck, doesn't that remind you of what's going on right now in this country with illegal immigrants and their families? Things just staying the same...
 

Bernd Lauert

Banned
May 27, 2018
1,812
You all should know better to ignore posts that have that "Im just a well meaning guy for europe, land of tolerance, asking a question" crap

American behaviour regarding race seems weird to us Euros. Different history, different experiences. Most Euro countries don't even have race as a category. Usually most you get is "immigrant" or "descendant of immigrants".
 

0ptimusPayne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,759
As a black male. This is America...Nothing new to see here. "I thought these things only happen in the south?" *Rolls eyes

Black people cant do shit right. Not even swim in a damn pool. Jesus
 

the_wart

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,264
The man may not have been motivated by an explicit belief that black people are dirty. Maybe he's just officious asshole. But even under this charitable interpretation, well, officious assholes shit on people they think are vulnerable, where they think they can get away with it. There's a 0.000001% chance his victims' race and gender doesn't come into that.

Some people in this thread act like calling someone or something racist is like a verdict in a criminal trial where the burden of proof should be impossibly high (except how often to people of color get all that benefit of the doubt in the legal system?). That's bullshit. Racism is part of the fabric of our society, have the intellectual honesty to acknowledge it instead of coming up with excuses to avoid the issue. And no one is getting sent to jail for being called racist on the internet anyway.
 

Kongroo

Avenger
Oct 31, 2017
2,972
Ottawa, Ontario, CA
I respect this honest response. Thank you. In the case of this specific story, the circumstances mentioned in the article and thread are damning. This is an easy call, friend.




Dude was not an employee of the hotel and even if he was the hotel didn't have any such policy in place. You're making an irrelevant argument.

Sorry. I misunderstood the story. I thought it was an employee doing a part of his job. I should have looked into this more before posting.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,441
Phoenix
The man may not have been motivated by an explicit belief that black people are dirty. Maybe he's just officious asshole. But even under this charitable interpretation, well, officious assholes shit on people they think are vulnerable, where they think they can get away with it. There's a 0.000001% chance his victims' race and gender doesn't come into that.

Some people in this thread act like calling someone or something racist is like a verdict in a criminal trial where the burden of proof should be impossibly high (except how often to people of color get all that benefit of the doubt in the legal system?). That's bullshit. Racism is part of the fabric of our society, have the intellectual honesty to acknowledge it instead of coming up with excuses to avoid the issue. And no one is getting sent to jail for being called racist on the internet anyway.
I mean that's just it. I'm sure if you asked the guy he'd swear he's not racist, and you know what? He probably honestly believes it. Nonetheless, something about this Black woman rubbed him the wring way so much so that it encouraged him to walk up to her and asked her if she bathed and he rationalized it as him just doing some kind of public service and nothing racist. Hell I'm sure that lawyer that was yelling at Mexicans in Subway swears he's not a racist too. It's this country man, it's how it works. You ain't racist unless you make a public declaration that you hate Black people or other minorities. Meanwhile, people will continue to target others and believe it's innocent because that's what this country WANTS to believe.

"I'm not racist but, Mexicans sure trash up a place"
"I'm not a racist but, Black people don't want to work"
"I'm not racist but, I doubt that Black woman showered before getting in the pool. In fact, I'm not racist but I think I'll go ask her!" (completely ignores all the White people on his way over there).

This is America and I see it all the time.
 
Last edited:

the_wart

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,264
I mean that's just it. I'm sure if you asked the guy he'd swear he's not racist, and you know what? He probably honestly believes it. Nonetheless, something about this Black woman rubbed him the wring way so much so that it encouraged him to walk up to her and asked her if she bathed and he rationalized it as him just doing some kind of public service and nothing racist. Hell I'm sure that lawyer that was yelling at Mexicans in Subway swears he's not a racist too. It's this country man, it's how it works. You ain't racist unless you make a public declaration that you hate Black people or other minorities. Meanwhile, people will continue to target others and believe it's innocent because that's what this country WANTS to believe.

Maybe it would go down easier if instead of calling the person racist, we said there was a racism-involved incident. Like with police shootings.
 

John Doe

Avenger
Jan 24, 2018
3,443
American behaviour regarding race seems weird to us Euros. Different history, different experiences. Most Euro countries don't even have race as a category. Usually most you get is "immigrant" or "descendant of immigrants".

Don't even try this.

Plenty of European countries had slave colonies and treated Black people as lesser human beings.

Do I really need to google and post results on here about European Racism? Black football players having bananas thrown at them and racist chants directed at them in Spain.

https://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/05/...ts-racism-football-atletico-madrid/index.html

I don't have time for it but here is a United Nations article to get you started:

https://news.un.org/en/story/2018/04/1008392

Data disclosed by the Metropolitan Police in August 2017 found that people of African descent and those belonging to ethnic minority groups, in particular young African and Caribbean men were twice as likely to die after the use of force by police officers and the subsequent lack or insufficiency of access to appropriate healthcare

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_United_Kingdom

If you check this Wiki article you will also find that the UK experienced a series of race riots in the 80s.

In the early 1980s, societal racism, discrimination and poverty — alongside further perceptions of powerlessness and oppressive policing — sparked a series of riots in areas with substantial African-Caribbean populations
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,362
New York
American behaviour regarding race seems weird to us Euros. Different history, different experiences. Most Euro countries don't even have race as a category. Usually most you get is "immigrant" or "descendant of immigrants".

Yea so much easier to just keep Black people in your nation to an absolute minimum to keep Europeans comfortable. Miss me with this insipid nonsense.

"We don't have race as a category" aka, we sweep our bullshit under the rug and don't talk about it.
 

Bernd Lauert

Banned
May 27, 2018
1,812
Don't even try this.

Plenty of European countries had slave colonies and treated Black people as lesser human beings.

Do I really need to google and post results on here about European Racism? Black football players having bananas thrown at them and racist chants directed at them in Spain.

https://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/05/...ts-racism-football-atletico-madrid/index.html

I don't have time for it but here is a United Nations article to get you started:

https://news.un.org/en/story/2018/04/1008392



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_the_United_Kingdom

If you check this Wiki article you will also find that the UK experienced a series of race riots in the 80s.

What I meant with my post is that the topic of race isn't really being discussed that much in Europe. Black people are a tiny minority in most countries here so the topic doesn't come up that often. That's why a man being an asshole to a woman making national news might seem weird to us, while to an American it might make sense because of the racial make up of the two. There's also a big difference between having colonies and having slaves in your own country for hundreds of years. I also assume racism is a more frequent topic in the UK, France, Spain and maybe Italy. My perspective is from Germany and Croatia. The latter country has a black population of 200.
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,362
New York
Black people are a tiny minority in most countries here so the topic doesn't come up that often. That's why a man being an asshole to a woman making national news might seem weird to us, while to an American it might make sense because of the racial make up of the two. There's also a big difference between having colonies and having slaves in your own country for hundreds of years. I also assume racism is a more frequent topic in the UK, France, Spain and maybe Italy. My perspective is from Germany and Croatia. The latter country has a black population of 200.

Exactly. No offense but the minute you add more Black folk to your nation you'll see the bigots come out the woodwork. America isn't some exception. There's just enough of a Black population here to make a great deal of white people uncomfortable. Don't think your nation isn't immune to this. Change demographics and you'll see the same shit.
 

John Doe

Avenger
Jan 24, 2018
3,443
What I meant with my post is that the topic of race isn't really being discussed that much in Europe. Black people are a tiny minority in most countries here so the topic doesn't come up that often. That's why a man being an asshole to a woman making national news might seem weird to us, while to an American it might make sense because of the racial make up of the two. There's also a big difference between having colonies and having slaves in your own country for hundreds of years. I also assume racism is a more frequent topic in the UK, France, Spain and maybe Italy. My perspective is from Germany and Croatia. The latter country has a black population of 200.

Again, No.

Croatia:

http://www.euronews.com/2018/05/15/racism-and-hate-speech-in-croatia-is-on-the-rise-
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/770594/Jamie-Foxx-shocked-horrific-N-word-racist-attack-Croatia

Germany:
https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/what-is-it-like-to-be-a-black-person-in-germany--16498

This discourse is reflected in wider society. Last year a UN fact-finding mission described racism in Germany as "systematic" and revealed how black men don't go to certain areas for fear of being attacked. That came off the back of a 2016 report by the Education Ministry which highlighted the "stronger inequalities" between white children and children with an immigrant background in higher education.

https://news.un.org/en/story/2017/0...profiling-against-people-african#.WLVEam_yuUk

People have been talking about racism in Europe, even in Germany and Croatia. You just haven't been listening.

That's just from two seconds of googling and I'm sure if I spent more time I could find more. Don't act like it doesn't exist or its not been talked about just because it hasn't personally reached your ears or affected you.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
The man may not have been motivated by an explicit belief that black people are dirty. Maybe he's just officious asshole. But even under this charitable interpretation, well, officious assholes shit on people they think are vulnerable, where they think they can get away with it. There's a 0.000001% chance his victims' race and gender doesn't come into that.

Some people in this thread act like calling someone or something racist is like a verdict in a criminal trial where the burden of proof should be impossibly high (except how often to people of color get all that benefit of the doubt in the legal system?). That's bullshit. Racism is part of the fabric of our society, have the intellectual honesty to acknowledge it instead of coming up with excuses to avoid the issue. And no one is getting sent to jail for being called racist on the internet anyway.

This. I mean yeah, maybe he was just doing his job. But it's hard to believe that and ignore the undercurrents. Under Trump hate crimes have increased while he has simultaneously undercut government programs meant to counter white extremism, so...
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,441
Phoenix
This. I mean yeah, maybe he was just doing his job. But it's hard to believe that and ignore the undercurrents. Under Trump hate crimes have increased while he has simultaneously undercut government programs meant to counter white extremism, so...
We know he wasn't doing his job, he didn't work there and wasn't a health inspector like he claimed. I agree with what you said mind you, but yeah, we know that much anyway.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,994
Don't know why I'm surprised that there's a defense force formulating for this, or the "We don't have racism in Europe" crowd showed up.

Well she said "I let him know that being black is not a disease and showering would not wash the BLACK off our skin". Which implies that they didn't.

I know you took a ban to the face like you totally deserved but I'm going to use this post as a jump off point to highlight that the belief black skin and/or people to be inherently dirty is a very old school form of racism enforced around pools and hotels.

Lena Horne was the exception who proved the rule. A favorite of Bugsy Siegel, the gorgeous torch singer was allowed to stay at the Flamingo as long as she steered clear of the casino, restaurants and other public areas. When she checked out, her bedsheets and towels were burned.

Another local tells of the day Sammy Davis Jr. took a dip in a whites-only swimming pool at the New Frontier. "Afterward, the manager drained the pool.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,942
Few things people need to understand. Black people, white people and swimming pools have a long history of this kinda BS happening.

Also in America it's generally not a rule that you have to shower before getting into a pool. Honestly except maybe at the YMCA no hotel I've ever been to has had this rule. Nor is it a normal thing to wonder if the person who is swimming next to you has showered before getting into the pool. So yeah I'm gonna go with racism on this one
 

Bernd Lauert

Banned
May 27, 2018
1,812
Again, No.

Croatia:

http://www.euronews.com/2018/05/15/racism-and-hate-speech-in-croatia-is-on-the-rise-
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/770594/Jamie-Foxx-shocked-horrific-N-word-racist-attack-Croatia

Germany:
https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/what-is-it-like-to-be-a-black-person-in-germany--16498



https://news.un.org/en/story/2017/0...profiling-against-people-african#.WLVEam_yuUk

People have been talking about racism in Europe, even in Germany and Croatia. You just haven't been listening.

That's just from two seconds of googling and I'm sure if I spent more time I could find more. Don't act like it doesn't exist or its not been talked about just because it hasn't personally reached your ears or affected you.

You're arguing with a strawman, not with me it seems.
 

Macleoid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
204
Scotland
When will this sad world learn, there is no indignity your can inflict on anyone worse than calling them racist when they haven't explicitly stated that they regard other races as inferior.
 
Jun 10, 2018
8,867
Lol at Europeans acting like their countries aren't also flowing with hatred and ignorance.
I'd like to know what alternate stream of reality they're living in when EU wasn't active exporters of manifest destiny, colonialism, colorism, and anti-black sentiments.

It's almost the same kind of reality where opinions are often substituted as fact, and ignorance is brandished as a badge of honor.
 

Jom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,490
It's amazing that people are even talking about this with an example of blatant racism. It's fucking irrelevant.
Yeah seriously lol. Never heard of anyone concerned about showering before and certainly no one ever accosting someone to make sure they've showered beforehand. It was racism plain and simple.

People do want to jump into a shower right after though to get all the kid pee and shit particles off them though. It's like people aren't aware that people's anuses get cleaned out in the pool when they're swimming? Ain't nobody giving two shits about whether you've showered beforehand.

https://www.popsci.com/swimming-pools-are-gross#page-2

Everyone still arguing about showering before swimming as a legitimate concern read that article and then come back and say again that the real concern people should be having is whether it's been over 8 hours since someone last showered before they hopped into a pool.

Like you're literally swallowing countless people's shit and piss when you go swimming and someone showering right before they go in is the fear looool.
 
Last edited:
Jan 18, 2018
2,625
While this reeks of questionable behaviour that might very well be is probably racist, this:

is incredibly stupid and a disgusting attempt to sexualize the act of cleaning yourself before going into a pool.

Many public pools have rules that require guests to shower, and that statement is just astonishingly dumb.

I agree with this

At my gym, the lifeguard asks everyone if they showed before getting in.

This man had no business asking anyone else, especially since they were already in the pool and should mind his own fucking business

... But based on the woman's reaction she clearly didn't know you're supposed to shower before getting in.

Hotel should post a sign