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Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,527
In past games in the series—and in SoulCalibur 6, too—the fighters' clothes fall off when they are damaged. This is a common feature in sexy anime games like Senran Kagura: Peach Beach Splash, High School DxD, Akiba's Trip: Undead & Undressed. In Bandai Namco's presentation on SoulCalibur 6, a spokesperson emphasized the mechanic: "Visually, we realized that the game has to be exciting for people playing, but also, spectators have to be excited as well, too. From round to round, if you continue to land these hits, characters' armors break, costumes change. You could be in your underwear by the end of a match." This isn't deliberately sexy?

"It's interesting you say you don't set out to be sexy," I continued, "because SoulCalibur has traditionally had really elaborate breast physics in the game. That doesn't exist for gameplay, of course."

"I think, as a result, the characters as a result end up being sexy," replied Okubo. "That's not something we can deny necessarily, but in the process of game design, we just really try to go after what we think would be cool actions, cool movement, strong, powerful movements. That is kind of a byproduct of this pursuit of trying to find what we think is pretty cool."

jackoffmotion.webm

Motherfucking please.
 

No42.05W70.2

Banned
Jun 14, 2018
763
Calling it a relic seems generous. Growing up I never felt the fighting genre was about female objectification. Street Fighter 2, Mortal Kombat 2, Tekken 3. There were lots of badass women with attractive designs that didn't feel raunchy or pornographic. DoA introduced this idea as the fidelity on character models went up. They cashed in on increased polygons by emphasizing cleavage, jiggle, etc. It was an easy way to market the games, not a reflection of the times. Now they're finally getting called out on it.
 

Jingo

Banned
Dec 10, 2017
1,219
Yeah but imagine a world where you turn on your TV to watch the news, and the anchorwoman is wearing a bikini while the anchorman wears a suit and tie.

That's what the videogame industry needs to move away from.

Different formats, the news on tv isnt supose to be only entertaining, they re supose to present the news in a professional way and the tone is more serious.

Video games are entertainment, do you really see any man or woman complaining about the sexy outfits of chris in resident evil?

I have a way way way bigger problem with people who are going to boycott last of us 2 cause theres two girls kissing, that is the real problem for me and i dont see much discussion about it.
 

eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,236
It has. Fanservice content in games is getting rarer and rarer. That's why people who like fanservice latch onto what's left and celebrate it.

Aside from the other comments that fanservice is still ubiquitous in the Japanese segment of the industry, what used to be considered "fan service" back in the day would be laughed at by people who expect modern day fan service. In the old days fan service was a panty shot in 5 frames of animation, or an unlockable bikini outfit. It was still based around the objectification of women for the purpose of titillating the male portion of the audience, but it was confined to something those who found it objectionable or alienating didn't have to see most of the time. But over the years, all-T&A-all-the-time has become normalized. It's no longer a 'present' for male fans (and there's almost never any 'presents' for straight women and gay men), it's now expected as the default.

Even within this series, if you look back at SoulCalibur 1, the only women that had this level of objectification were Taki and Ivy. And with Ivy, you could make an argument that she had a sexualized male parallel in Voldo. But if you look at the female characters in SC VI, every one of them has had their costume become more revealing, their breasts enlarged, and the camera is more intent on ogling them. Imagine if most of the women in this game were presented in a non-sexualized manner, but all the men were shirtless, with the camera leering at their package, butt, and glistening pecs? That's what women have to deal with who want to play this and similar games...a constant barrage of imagery that objectifies their gender and mostly reduces them to nothing but body parts for someone else to leer at.
 

Manu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,187
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Different formats, the news on tv isnt supose to be only entertaining, they re supose to present the news in a professional way and the tone is more serious.

Video games are entertainment, do you really see any man or woman complaining about the sexy outfits of chris in resident evil?

I have a way way way bigger problem with people who are going to boycott last of us 2 cause theres two girls kissing, that is the real problem for me and i dont see much discussion about it.

Those are not the default outfits. In fighting games men usually wear fighting gear while women are half naked. And there's a massive imbalance in sexualized designs of women vs men historically.

Also, assuming all entertainment is made by default for straight men is kinda gross, don't you think?

And the last part of your post is pure whataboutism. Why don't you open a thread to discuss that? We can do both.
 

zashga

Losing is fun
Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,202
We weren't necessarily going out to try and intentionally make something sexy for the purpose of being sexy.

Come on now. This is a bald-faced lie. Was he too embarrassed to admit to a real woman that he wanted sexy girl models in his game?
 

Deleted member 13560

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,087
One of the best designs in the series. Such a bad ass character. Hilde was so badass she was broken.

hilsc4art1-jpg.3675


Too bad she got nerfed in 5.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
Mostly women, if you read this thread and the actual article.Though there are a good chunk of men too in this thread that get it

Are you seriously suggesting that reducing women to sex objects is somehow glorifying us? like... what?
Which part of this are you responding to me? I'm not sure why im quoted here. I only expressed the opinion that soul caliber never bothered ME personally and that it didn't contain the sexual posing that fighters like the DOA series did as much. The costumes for ivy and taki are over the top for sure, but I'm talking about behavior specifically
 

PhazonBlonde

User requested ban
Banned
May 18, 2018
3,293
Somewhere deep in space
Which part of this are you responding to me? I'm not sure why im quoted here. I only expressed the opinion that soul caliber never bothered ME personally and that it didn't contain the sexual posing that fighters like the DOA series did as much. The costumes for ivy and taki are over the top for sure, but I'm talking about behavior specifically

I was posting from my phone and it fucked up and included you in the quote. I was replying to the person replying to you. I'll edit it out.
 

Jingo

Banned
Dec 10, 2017
1,219
Those are not the default outfits. In fighting games men usually wear fighting gear while women are half naked. And there's a massive imbalance in sexualized designs of women vs men historically.

Also, assuming all entertainment is made by default for straight men is kinda gross, don't you think?

And the last part of your post is pure whataboutism. Why don't you open a thread to discuss that? We can do both.
But media is made mostly for men, its not me saying, its the estatistics.

Im not saying that i agree that woman should be seen has sex dolls, im just saying that its whats most media consumers want.

And its not like womans do anything to help, you often see girls playing online with reduced outfits, purposely for atracting more viewers and generate more money.

Maybe the example should come from womans first? I know they re not all the same, but some are disgracing the image of woman for others.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611
I felt after 4 especially they went way over the top with the designs, but honestly, just let the horny boys enjoy their boobie games. It's a problem when EVERYTHING does it and I prefer my games without ridiculous fan service, but the push for the complete extinction of sexualized characters I see online rubs me the wrong way.

That's about where I land. The problem was never that these kind of designs existed it was that there were no alternatives. And coming out the other side of E3 I think its safe to say games are finally in a spot where there is starting to be way more diversity all around.

And thats pretty dope. (also if y'all seriously think DOA is abandoning the sexy you crazy especially with how much damn money they made on all that DLC)
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,703
Brazil
Soul Calibur 6 didn't even announced Voldo yet and people are still saying that soul calibur men is the same?

Those discussions are not the same =/

But who is complaining, woman or man?

I get what people are talking , but lets not pretend that there is no glorifying of woman in every type of entertainment, we want it, the media knows we want it, and it sells..

Who is we?
Because from the most sold videogames ever it is hard to find that this is what "we want". Even gta online would be hard to find a screen that represents it.
Hell, pokemon is the most lucrative franchise in HISTORY and it has almost zero of the things your "we want"
 

MisterHero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,934
It's good business to be as inclusive as you can but I'm not gonna force creators to do something they don't want to do.

The best thing the creators can do is own up to theie choices. It may or may not get the sales they want, but it remains their creation.
 

Jingo

Banned
Dec 10, 2017
1,219
Soul Calibur 6 didn't even announced Voldo yet and people are still saying that soul calibur men is the same?

Those discussions are not the same =/



Who is we?
Because from the most sold videogames ever it is hard to find that this is what "we want". Even gta online would be hard to find a screen that represents it.
Hell, pokemon is the most lucrative franchise in HISTORY and it has almost zero of the things your "we want"

We, the public, you re gonna see the next bond movie expecting the bond girl to be your tipical neighbour lookalike or you expect a "bomb"?
 

Manu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,187
Buenos Aires, Argentina
We, the public, you re gonna see the next bond movie expecting the bond girl to be your tipical neighbour lookalike or you expect a "bomb"?
I mean, you're using James Bond, a franchise that's been criticized for some outdated and sometimes outright misogynistic views of women of all things to make a point.

Would you pass on the next James Bond movie if there's no female character that only exists to be ogled by the audience and sexed by Bond in it?
 

SieteBlanco

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,878
Marco's battle outfit from the Shaman King manga is a far better example of a sexualized guy than Voldo:
latest
 

Zacmortar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,383
As the article points out, it IS a relic of the past. And with DoA moving on from that, it'll soon be the last mainstream one. Which is why I'm not really bothered by it and I think it's largely fine. If it was still a huge issue in the gaming industry that SC6 was a part of, then sure call them out on it. As an isolated game, you do you. Some people like it and I don't think it's necessary to see it completely gone.
The "Some people like it" excuse only works for niche games. No ones gonna be mad at Senran Kagura for being horny because that's why it exists.

Soul Calibur is a unique popular fighting game franchise, and women deserve to not be as objectified in the games they play.

EDIT: LOL AT PEOPLE CALLING VOLDO SEXUALIZED
 

DerpHause

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,379
Soul Calibur 6 didn't even announced Voldo yet and people are still saying that soul calibur men is the same?

Those discussions are not the same =/



Who is we?
Because from the most sold videogames ever it is hard to find that this is what "we want". Even gta online would be hard to find a screen that represents it.
Hell, pokemon is the most lucrative franchise in HISTORY and it has almost zero of the things your "we want"

The purchasing public isn't a monolithic entity that only wants one thing. If it was we'd all be playing nothing but pokemon ripoffs because that's what sales numbers alone as a metric state to make.

The fact remains that any franchise that has seen success and features these designs either has to exist in a world where a number of people are willing to overlook these designs at the least, or that actively likes these designs at the most. And given that these games are successfully monetizing sexualized add on content (or just creating more extreme versions of it themselves) we know that specifically is something some players are looking for.
 

TwoCoins

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,493
Houston Tx
Off-putting sexualize fan-service is a big reason why i don't play those games. I returned Xenogears 2 because of it...and i bet there are more like minded people like me who don't buy games because of it, than people who will not if they tone it done/remove it... And in most cases i feel like they don't believe in their game enough to sell well without it and is always a red flag.
 

Jingo

Banned
Dec 10, 2017
1,219
User Banned (2 weeks): Misogyny.
I mean, you're using James Bond, a franchise that's been criticized for some outdated and sometimes outright misogynistic views of women of all things to make a point.

Would you pass on the next James Bond movie if there's no female character that only exists to be ogled by the audience and sexed by Bond in it?

Actually ive only seen one bond movie cause im not a fan of the series, but yet, any woman would "kill" for the oportunity to be the next bond girl, like i said, if you wanna change mentalities, ill will have to start with the womans, its a shitty industry but if we want to start to see progress we gotta start do something.

Im sorry if i look like a mysoginist or something but this is a topic that upsets me, going a little off topic,
Woman in my country are always asking for equal rights, yet i dont see none of them complaining when they go to a night club where their entrance is free with 2 drinks and man must pay 15 euros just to get in, where is the stand up for that for example?
 

Manu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,187
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Actually ive only seen one bond movie cause im not a fan of the series, but yet, any woman would "kill" for the oportunity to be the next bond girl, like i said, if you wanna change mentalities, ill will have to start with the womans, its a shitty industry but if we want to start to see progress we gotta start do something.

[Citation needed]

Stop blaming women for the way a male-run patriarchy works.

Im sorry if i look like a mysoginist or something but this is a topic that upsets me, going a little off topic,
Woman in my country are always asking for equal rights, yet i dont see none of them complaining when they go to a night club where their entrance is free with 2 drinks and man must pay 15 euros just to get in, where is the stand up for that for example?
You clearly haven't been on the internet enough if you haven't seen anyone complain about this.

Women get into night clubs for free because more women = more guys will pay to get a chance of hitting on them. Women in your example are literally being used as advertisement.
 
Last edited:

Skux

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,942
I felt after 4 especially they went way over the top with the designs, but honestly, just let the horny boys enjoy their boobie games. It's a problem when EVERYTHING does it and I prefer my games without ridiculous fan service, but the push for the complete extinction of sexualized characters I see online rubs me the wrong way.
Yeah. There's a place for games where sex appeal of one of their selling points. "I feel sexy" is a valid character fantasy for both men and women.
 

skillzilla81

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,043
Actually ive only seen one bond movie cause im not a fan of the series, but yet, any woman would "kill" for the oportunity to be the next bond girl, like i said, if you wanna change mentalities, ill will have to start with the womans, its a shitty industry but if we want to start to see progress we gotta start do something.

Im sorry if i look like a mysoginist or something but this is a topic that upsets me, going a little off topic,
Woman in my country are always asking for equal rights, yet i dont see none of them complaining when they go to a night club where their entrance is free with 2 drinks and man must pay 15 euros just to get in, where is the stand up for that for example?

Lmao wtf.

You are a mysoginist, my man.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,703
Brazil
We, the public, you re gonna see the next bond movie expecting the bond girl to be your tipical neighbour lookalike or you expect a "bomb"?

Right now you expect a break in the expectations since the Cassino Royale reboot bought Vesper Lynd in a more non sexy way and made her much more interesting for it, culminating on Moneypenny in Skyfall and Bellucci in Spectre, a 50 year old bond girl. So yeah, if you are expecting a "bombshell" in bikini as a bond girl you are really not paying attention
 

miscellaneous houseplant

self-requsted ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
306
I loved the first two SoulCalibur games back in the day. I haven't bought one since 2, and it's in large part due to the increasingly ridiculous "fan-service." They're a ton of fun to play, but I'm not going to buy a game I'm embarrassed to play in front of or with other adults.
 

okayfrog

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,968
I'm fine with the sexualization in the early Soulcalibur games, but the tittie inflation in the later games actually did turn me away from the series a bit.
 

Ferrs

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
18,829
Actually ive only seen one bond movie cause im not a fan of the series, but yet, any woman would "kill" for the oportunity to be the next bond girl, like i said, if you wanna change mentalities, ill will have to start with the womans, its a shitty industry but if we want to start to see progress we gotta start do something.

Im sorry if i look like a mysoginist or something but this is a topic that upsets me, going a little off topic,
Woman in my country are always asking for equal rights, yet i dont see none of them complaining when they go to a night club where their entrance is free with 2 drinks and man must pay 15 euros just to get in, where is the stand up for that for example?

When toxic masculinity is also fault of women.

Please, think a little about who does this and why.
 

Playsage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,371
The biggest disappointment for me on this matter has to be no pants featured on Xianghua's default outfit for the first time in the whole series

She got straight redesigned instead of building on her original SC design, which events are even depicted in story mode as the trailer shows
 

Gradon

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,471
UK
EDIT: LOL AT PEOPLE CALLING VOLDO SEXUALIZED

There are a lot of gamers who are fans of female fanservice that like to point out shirtless dudes in games makes it equal, and yet, not actually knowing what male sexualisation is.

But people pointing out Voldo is even worse and you'd have to be an imbecile to imply he was created to be sexy and eye candy for female gamers.
 

Buran

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
365
As long as Soul Calibur keeps being fair in the way it treats both male and female characters I don't see a problem. The game (as most of fighting games) has literally a full roster of perfect bodies with idealized looks, no matter the gender, including the (maybe) best looking design iteration of Yoshimitsu up to date.

I don't think that the developers should make Voldo to wear a trenchcoat and Ivy a jilhab because some people is disturbed seeing some pixels of uncovered virtual skin. I have no problems with the degree of gore and violence portrayed in games as Doom, Dark Souls or Soul Calibur and fail to see how the sexual innuendos related to each character from the first Soul Calibur is now a problem (and by the way, Aeon Calcos was full naked in SC V and no one blinked).
 

Deleted member 15326

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,219
Ivy and what they did to Sophitia is pretty extreme. Didn't help that the games got worse and still no edge master mode
 

RoninChaos

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,338
I dont really mind it but never understood why they went that far with 4. And it's not about being sexy, the women in SC2 were more sexy imo, giving them enormously big boobs and making their costumes like underwear is bad aesthetic and it feels like the game is made for perverts and not fighting gamers.
That's why it turned me off. it was SOOOOO over the top it was just gross.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,703
Brazil
There are a lot of gamers who are fans of female fanservice that like to point out shirtless dudes in games makes it equal, and yet, not actually knowing what male sexualisation is.

But people pointing out Voldo is even worse and you'd have to be an imbecile to imply he was created to be sexy and eye candy for female gamers.

I don't know why I'm still surprised that people point to Voldo as an example of fan service for women.

I think pointing to voldo is good because it means the person is starting to identify the problems.

Voldo fits lots of the problems that usualy women gets like absolutely non pratical armor that shows way too much skin, weird poses that makes no sense but to show areas of interest, walking like you are on a catwalk.

But it is not a good comparison because ... the way sexism works on society you just can't change those things and ignore a whole imbalance of the culture and society or even in the game itself
 

RooMHM

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
277
I don't know why I'm still surprised that people point to Voldo as an example of fan service for women.
If anything I'd say that Voldo is definitely a lot more perverse than Ivy. And it reflects in his look. But you might not agree. I don't think it's fanservice but it's absolutely objectification to the max.
 

SieteBlanco

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,878
If anything I'd say that Voldo is definitely a lot more perverse than Ivy. And it reflects in his look. But you might not agree. I don't think it's fanservice but it's absolutely objectification to the max.

Voldo is a joke character. You're meant to find him funny. He isn't designed to be attractive.
 

Hikari

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,695
Elysium
One of the best designs in the series. Such a bad ass character. Hilde was so badass she was broken.

hilsc4art1-jpg.3675


Too bad she got nerfed in 5.

I hope Hildegard does come back. I have always thought her design was something I can connect with especially after playing her story. She has big breasts but they aren't emphasized on.
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,950
Ivy's default outfit has been pretty tacky looking from day one. I think it's fine for the men and women to show some skin, but let's get something more tasteful.

To say sexiness wasn't the intent is kind of funny seeing how even a ninja like Taki grew bouncy breasts. At least own up to it.
 

Choco Momonga

Member
May 24, 2018
353
Slightly off-topic, but genuine question as I think about this a lot, is there a cheesecake game that would be interesting or cool to play in your opinion?

Would Soul Calibur be more accepted if it catered to men and women equally? Do you feel SC shouldn't exist on the market? No judge, no shame, I'm just asking.

I like Frank Frazetta's art work a lot, barely-clad men and women fighting in jungles, atmospheric and terrific artwork. I personally would like to see a game like that but it would probably be poorly received? I don't know.
 

Scherzo

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,053
Yeah to reiterate, the idea that women's tastes are being pandered to anywhere near the extent of men's is downright laughable. I'm for everyone getting what they want, but the way things are run is definitely tilted in straight dudes' favor.

Slightly off-topic, but genuine question as I think about this a lot, is there a cheesecake game that would be interesting or cool to play in your opinion?

Would Soul Calibur be more accepted if it catered to men and women equally? Do you feel SC shouldn't exist on the market? No judge, no shame, I'm just asking.

I like Frank Frazetta's art work a lot, barely-clad men and women fighting in jungles, atmospheric and terrific artwork. I personally would like to see a game like that but it would probably be poorly received? I don't know.

Well for the first part, Bayonetta comes to mind. That sort of fetishism at least emphasizes Bayonetta's control of her sexuality. I'm of course for all kinds, but I have to admit that its not exactly wholesome to have a lot of exposed skin and 'enhanced' jiggle physics.

I mean your thing is one solution but I'd doubt they'd go for it; it would be fulling dedicating itself to being cheesy, whereas I think what they're doing here is mostly coasting on nostalgia.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,365
I'll agree on Voldo not being fanservice, that never once crossed my mind with his design and character.

I think it's more about it being in an ostensibly AAA game, there are plenty of horny games out there if you want that.

Are you insinuating that smut games cannot or shouldn't have high production quality, or are you talking about AAA in a marketing sense.
 

Starmud

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,443
Every time I see DOA I can't help but think of beach volleyball. I still play it with a girlfriend I grew up playing xbox with and we all think it's hilarious,

I can't take DOA serious but was it ever meant to be taken serious? I do agree there's a line. The breast attention can cross a line from sexualized to just creepy and reek of teenage video game porn.

If it's made equal though I don't have too much of an issue with it. It's not like we haven't seen sexualized male fighters with stuffed looking bulges.

Honestly though, don't you want a varried roster? Sometimes you want a serious looking character that dosent have body parts swinging out all over the place.

Personally I prefer capcoms style here but is hard to feel too conflicted about DOA given its history. It is a relic of games past.
 

Scherzo

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,053
Are you insinuating that smut games cannot or shouldn't have high production quality, or are you talking about AAA in a marketing sense.

Mostly marketing sense, and it obviously depends developer to developer. Like for example, I doubt Naughty Dog will ever do another straight 'Femme Fatale' archetype like UC2-era Chloe again, because they've sort of moved beyond that wrt how they approach creating characters.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,331
I think it's more about it being in an ostensibly AAA game, there are plenty of horny games out there if you want that.
So that explains why people latch onto it, since it gets rarer in AAA games. As a trend in the industry I'd say you could absolutely say that it has moved on, smut indie games don't change that
 

Scherzo

Member
Nov 27, 2017
1,053
So that explains why people latch onto it, since it gets rarer in AAA games. As a trend in the industry I'd say you could absolutely say that it has moved on, smut indie games don't change that

I mean yeah I'd cosign that. Women are a much more visible part of the marketplace these days, you can't just casually have sexualized content and not expect it to be alienating. It's like I said, it's a conscious choice on the part of the Devs now to go that route, and they have to accept the criticism of it.

But my main point is that people who want T&A in games will always be able to get it, it just won't be in the big titles as much. And that's a fine state of affairs as far as I'm concerned. Horny male gamers just need to accept that they can't always get what they want.
 

2+2=5

Member
Oct 29, 2017
971
As i said time ago in another thread Taki's body painting that developers want to pass for a suit is ridiculous nowadays(and i'm being very generous)