Breaks my heart to see this so I can't even imagine how you feel. All I can say that is I want you to hang on and that the world needs to be a better place.
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New Research Shows a Vast Majority of Cis People Won't Date Trans People
- Thread starter Robin
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Breaks my heart to see this so I can't even imagine how you feel. All I can say that is I want you to hang on and that the world needs to be a better place.
It did seem like you were trying to argue that butch women were male somehow, otherwise your example doesn't make much sense. What would suit your argument that straight people are attracted to genetalia specifically would be if a straight man was attracted to a pre-op trans man.
If people socially accepted trans folk then the number of cis men and women who would date trans folk would be higher. Nothing says dishonest than going, "I support you 100%, but I can't date a trans folk because I am not attracted to them because while I view them as men and women I kind of don't cause I'm not gay."
Like, it's pretty obvious why people hard decline trans folk.
Like, it's pretty obvious why people hard decline trans folk.
Dating in general is discriminatory towards marginalized people. The more on the outside you are the harder it is.
I think you may want to reword that question because I have no idea how to parse the grammar and I can't figure out what you're looking for. Maybe use more commas, or quotation marks or something?
I'm just going to pop into this thread and say that I'm totally open to dating a trans woman. I've never had the opportunity, but if it were available, I would be open to it.
That's pretty much all I have to say on the matter.
That's pretty much all I have to say on the matter.
I would have had a hard time staying long term with a non trans woman who couldn't have kids, so yeah. The biological pairing was a major thing for me and I feel pretty lucky that I was able to fulfill that wish of mine. I realize that some might not think that important, but it was for me. It's a very unfortunate reality for trans people because I'm sure many of them feel the same way.
I mean, you just said that straight men = men who like vaginas, as compared to men who like women, because of the anecdotal evidence that men who like butch (cis) women exist.
That argument doesn't work unless you're somehow claiming them having vaginas is the reason such men (potentially) like those women, and not just that they're women?
I'm not saying you are intentionally making this claim, to be clear. It's just very unclear how this "anecdotal evidence" actually supports only the point you're trying to make.
So, you support conversion therapy?
Thats what that's supposed to be. Training gays to be straight.
Sounds odd to think you support that.
No, the study wasnt asking if you would date someone you werent attracted to. Attraction is a given, now its asking if being trans would prevent that.
No doubt the majority the responses comes down to people being afraid about how they would be perceived by other people for dating a trans person. Like when Eddy Winslow didnt wanna be seen dating a nerd. Actually on the extreme end its similar to closet homosexuals who put on a front of being republican.
Yeah I think everyone should have freedom to be themselves and be accepted for their gender identity and sexual orientation, free from persecution, but the notion that anyone has a right to be found attractive by the general population at large is absurd.
I did once date a cis woman who was fairly sure she would be unable to conceive. Took her a while to get up the courage to tell me, but it didn't really bother me, I was open to adoption or not having kids. She said she'd understand if it was a deal-breaker though.
I did once date a cis woman who was fairly sure she would be unable to conceive. Took her a while to get up the courage to tell me, but it didn't really bother me, I was open to adoption or not having kids. She said she'd understand if it was a deal-breaker though.
Yes I realise that now. That wasn't what I meant. I meant that it doesn't matter that what might be considered a butch woman doesn't match up with what is conventionally considered an attractice woman, straight men can still want to have sex with them as they have a vagina.
I didn't mean they weren't women.
But I mean... I don't see how anyone can reasonably deny that for a straight person, when it comes to a pre-op transperson the genitalia is probably going to be the biggest issue.
I genuinelly feel bad for trans people on this matter. I genuinelly do. But it's not reasonable to demand that people change their sexuality.
Ain't that the truth.
Still, these percentages are...well, shit.
Damn this covers dating and race threads where we get dumbasses going 'idk black chicks just aren't hot to me lolollol1!1' Good post
If that post didn't answer your question, then I must admit I don't understand what you were asking.
If you look further in the article, it seems like even the people willing to date trans people weren't considering post-op and/or were still reducing the people to their genitals:
Half of the straight men and half of the straight women said they would date a trans person that is opposite of the gender they're naturally attracted to. There's probably a decent amount of those people that are still making the assumptions that the straight men and women who said they wouldn't date trans people are making.
Half of the straight men and half of the straight women said they would date a trans person that is opposite of the gender they're naturally attracted to. There's probably a decent amount of those people that are still making the assumptions that the straight men and women who said they wouldn't date trans people are making.
The poster I'm talking to said the problem here was missing the marginalization of trans people and instead discussing attraction and whatnot from the perspective of cis gendered people. I'm asking if it's an issue that people are responding to claims that they are bigoted because they choose not to date and/or have sex with trans people.
User Banned (1 Week): Transphobia.
I was talking with a couple coworkers just the other night, and one friend made a comment that the other friend should get with me(knowing I was engaged). Her response was "not the right color". I'm white. She doesn't date or have sex with white dudes. I did not look at her as a bigot in any way. Why would I? Everyone has their sexual preferences. Me? I don't want a penis in bed with me. I'm straight, I want a vagina. That doesn't make me a bigot in any way.
The fact that people in this thread are talking down to straight people that want the opposite sex for a relationship is appalling.
All this says to me is that the overwhelming majority of the cis population has psychological hangups due to the complete lack of real world experience with transgendered people. I actually don't think these numbers would hold in reality because the rejection would be much more personal than hypothetical. Especially not after gender confirming surgery.
But even if they are ok with the idea on a personal level they may simply not want to deal with the societal stigma created by those hangups in the rest of the population. That's a much more difficult problem to solve. I wonder how these things typically go in the real world.
But even if they are ok with the idea on a personal level they may simply not want to deal with the societal stigma created by those hangups in the rest of the population. That's a much more difficult problem to solve. I wonder how these things typically go in the real world.
I think the issue here is, very few people made the caveat that they'd date a post-op trans person. Which betrays they've got issues beyond just a genitalia preference, no?
I really want to know what goes through people's heads when they say stuff like this.
Personally I'd date a transwoman that looked and sounded like a normal woman (could have a penis though, have come to realize that isn't the dealbreaker I once considered it).
However as best I can tell, you can pretty much always tell when someone is a transwoman. Things like voice, hands, general bodyshape just kinda gives it away even if it's on the more subtle side. And if I were to guess, I'd say that this is without doubt something that is obviously also going to effect what people answer to thing kind of question
However as best I can tell, you can pretty much always tell when someone is a transwoman. Things like voice, hands, general bodyshape just kinda gives it away even if it's on the more subtle side. And if I were to guess, I'd say that this is without doubt something that is obviously also going to effect what people answer to thing kind of question
So it IS all about the genitals! I don't get you monosexual types.
OP
OP
Depends how you look at it. I was almost raped in a parking lot (I'm assuming because I'm visibly trans), I'd prefer people find me disgusting than assault me. But they're both awful.
I find this weird.
I can't say I can say who is a trans women and who is not.
So how could I say I wouldn't date someone if I couldn't tell?
*is seriously confused*
I can't say I can say who is a trans women and who is not.
So how could I say I wouldn't date someone if I couldn't tell?
*is seriously confused*
Damn, shit must be hard for trans people.
Can't even imagine who I would feel knowing that 90+% of people are not attracted to me before we even meet.
Can't even imagine who I would feel knowing that 90+% of people are not attracted to me before we even meet.
No. I'm saying that a heterosexual is someone attracted to the opposite sex. And we all know (or at least I assume that you know) that there's a difference between sex and gender, sex being the genitalia, gender being the social construct of masculine and feminine identities.
I don't it's particularly crazy to think that someone who draws the line at a person not having a vagina, will probably continue to draw that line.
Well the urethra exits like right next to it and piss gets all over the vagina.
I totally agree, the study can be better. For starter, they can distinguish sexual preference and their acceptance of trans people and see how the number compares. Im not from psychology but how do you validate an online questionnaire which specifies the race of its subjects?
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I think I get it, but you just used the exact same phrasing :P
Here's how I might reword the question:
"Some people in here are responding to accusations that they're bigots. Is this a problem? Should they not be doing that?"
I think I could. But I haven't known any transperson that made it known to me, so every interaction I've had I took it as the gender I saw them as visually. If they were pre op, I saw them as the body they were in. If post op, I never thought they were trans. So it's possible if when it happened, there'd be a new idea to get used to. But I'm pretty sure I'd get there, if there was any there to get.
Procreating is a serious thing for a lot of people, and I don't think it's fair to say those people are lying. All of them, anyway. My wife's best friend got divorced because of problems conceiving. My best friend's wife has had her kids named since she was a little girl. A lot of people really love having their own kids. Is it possible people just flat out don't like the idea and are hiding behind procreation. Sure. But kids are a lifelong goal for a lot of people.
Procreating is a serious thing for a lot of people, and I don't think it's fair to say those people are lying. All of them, anyway. My wife's best friend got divorced because of problems conceiving. My best friend's wife has had her kids named since she was a little girl. A lot of people really love having their own kids. Is it possible people just flat out don't like the idea and are hiding behind procreation. Sure. But kids are a lifelong goal for a lot of people.
It for sure is.
But like, that's probably just what's pushing it into absurdly high numbers. The rest is probably unfamiliarity and bigotry. Like even the 50/50 group still had 50% who said they wouldnt.
Ok, so this wording of your argument/example does make more sense, but... not by much?
Who cares about conventional attraction when we're talking about individual people? If a straight man is attracted to a butch (cis) woman, how is that specifically because he's attracted to vaginas and not just that he's attracted to women, including butch ones? You still have this weird implication that straight men can be attracted to butch cis women only because despite them being butch, they have vaginas...?
I think you might want to pick a clearer example.
EDIT: sorry, posted before seeing your more recent post; this thread moves fast
The discussion we're having now, the focus of which you object to in the post I quoted, is because of a sentiment being expressed that anyone who doesn't choose to date or have sex with a trans person is a bigot, full stop. Over broad generalizations like this one are what cause the discussion to move away from the topic of addressing transphobia and its contribution to those numbers. The truth is no one disputes bigotry and hatred account for a significant portion of that 95%+. What is in dispute, and why it's the focus of the discussion, is that there are valid reasons unrelated to hatred for a person to not choose to date or have sex with trans people.
But almost fifty percent would be willing to date a trans person whose sex matched their preference even if the gender didn't. What do you think about those people?
No my no avatar low post count friend, I did not say the thing I explicitly stated I did not say 30 minutes and 2 pages ago
"normal woman"?
I understand being turned off by certain features, but, what's "normal"?
Phrasing.
Yeah that's why I think adding pre-op vs post-op would have helped this survey
I feel like there's a lot of misunderstanding going on in this thread.
If a trans person is post-op (and the op was done well) then you won't be able to tell that they're trans or not. They're just like every other cis-woman/man, and they have the genitals that correspond to their gender. The only way you'd know they were trans is if they told you.
Knowing this, I don't see how trans is a "preference" (or lack thereof) any more than "removed appendix" is a preference. Categorically ruling all of them out is indeed transphobia (unless it's for reproductive reasons).
Now, if we're talking about pre-op, I personally wouldn't fault anyone for not being attracted to someone who has genitals they don't find attractive.
If a trans person is post-op (and the op was done well) then you won't be able to tell that they're trans or not. They're just like every other cis-woman/man, and they have the genitals that correspond to their gender. The only way you'd know they were trans is if they told you.
Knowing this, I don't see how trans is a "preference" (or lack thereof) any more than "removed appendix" is a preference. Categorically ruling all of them out is indeed transphobia (unless it's for reproductive reasons).
Now, if we're talking about pre-op, I personally wouldn't fault anyone for not being attracted to someone who has genitals they don't find attractive.
After reading some of the responses in this thread I'm not so sure, but it would be nice to know.
God, between RedMurcury's dumbass comments, these people getting banned on the last few pages, and then off hand comments like that one, I feel like I'm getting a much better feel for how a few members of the community really feel about these topics... again...
Here's hoping most of it's just some simple level of ignorance that can be cleaned up nice and fast.
I think at that point there's just so much ignorance and confusion that it makes sense that it'd still be 50/50. Like others have said, dating and sex is a very individual thing. There's also the social stigma aspect. There are a lot of bigoted white people that would love to fuck a latinx or black person, but would never seriously date or marry them because they're afraid of the backlash from their families/ social circles.
User Banned (3 Days): Transphobia. Please do not refer to or imply that trans people are abnormal or unnatural.
I don't know how else i should word it? Natural? Basically someone that looks and sounds like they were born as a female
What I meant was that it doesn't really matter about any other aspect of what the person looks like or what gender they are. Butch was a terrible example and I really shouldn't have used it. But I just mean that the outward appearece or identity is irrelevant to a straight person. Most people who call themselves straight tend to draw a pretty hard line at the genitalia.
And to be clear I don't. I'm bi, I honestly can't wrap my head around it. But the point is they do draw that line. Maybe they wouldn't if they knew a trans person, a lot of straight guys are surprisingly up for experimenting, but my overall point is I or anyone can't force them to change their exclusive interest in vaginas, if they have it.
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