Normalisation of 'plus-size' risks hidden danger of obesity, study finds (Read OP)

The main issue is that most of body positivity messaging around obesity treats obesity as an absolutely permanent condition rather than a potentially temporary one. Ideally it should act as a means of generating a feeling of self worth in order to further catalyze action towards a healthier lifestyle

Soda said:

"It's all genetics" is not only extreme simplification, but just wrong. Don't peddle pseudoscience buzzwords as fact.

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Nude_Tayne said:

Science and the entire medical community say it's a problem that should be addressed on a large scale, but DigitalOp says "it's all genetics" and we shouldn't shame because "not every person's gonna be a stick figure yo".
That's a tough one.

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Its almost as if I never mentioned targeting food availability options in my post!

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Cyanity said:

So what's the solution? Body-positivity culture allows people feel better about themselves on a day to day basis. Who are we to go back to fat-shaming? There must be a way to curb the obesity epidemic without making people feel like shit.

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No one wants to go back to fat shaming, but celebrating obesity is dangerous and stupid. Being fat is not a positive, it's a dangerous and costly thing and is waaaaaaaaay too prevalent in this country.

We should not be shaming them, but we should NOT be coddling them like we have been doing.

If fat shaming is considered to be stuff like this advert (which had a bit of a twitter backlash to it) then I'd have to say I fully welcome the findings of the study, because there surely has to be a way for organisations that are interested in better public health to be able put across difficult truths without obesity being handwaved away/ met with a denial of what being that way does to a person

So long as society conflates body type as a beauty issue, as opposed to a health issue, this is going to be a problem and requires a complete upheaval of cultural norms.

Most 'default' food options are also loaded to the brim with salt and sugar. Whenever possible I get the low salt version, and guess what? It tastes the same and costs the same usually.

Cyanity said:

So what's the solution? Body-positivity culture allows people feel better about themselves on a day to day basis. Who are we to go back to fat-shaming? There must be a way to curb the obesity epidemic without making people feel like shit.

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Stop building cities around cars, subsidize healthier foods and better food availability (addressing food deserts), tax unhealthy foods, and offer other positive incentives to get healthier. Maybe even borrow Japan's workplace exercise routines where appropriate. A lot of this can be paid for by the healthcare savings it would bring.

bane833 said:

The solution is to tell the people the fucking truth even if it hurts their feelings. Being fat is bad, end of story.

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If that was the best solution, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's more nuanced than that.

Mental health
Healthy food prices
Access to Healthcare
Access to workout facilities

All need to be addressed.

It's far easier to eat unhealthy and do low levels of exercise than it is to maintain a good weight and stick with larger levels of activity. Environment is a larger problem than genetics imo, understanding that some people definitely have a much more difficult time in losing weight.

Like, if it was easy to eat healthy, this wouldn't be as much of a problem as it is. Eating a snack at a movie is going to crush half of your caloric budget. That's not okay -- it's not a meal, it's a snack. When I started counting calories and seeing what I was eating, I lost like 70 lbs in 6 months or so. And I feel a lot better, and I think a lot of people are capable of achieving an image that they want rather than coming up with ways to justify their body, but the societies that push the garbage foods we eat don't make that easy.

The Almighty Tria said:

No one wants to go back to fat shaming, but celebrating obesity is dangerous and stupid. Being fat is not a positive, it's a dangerous and costly thing and is waaaaaaaaay too prevalent in this country.

We should not be shaming them, but we should NOT be coddling them like we have been doing.

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Yeah I'm sure all this time fat people have been coddled.

This is a hard balance for sure. I think the important thing is to indoctrinate children into a value system that sees health and fitness differently: it's hygiene. Period.

hygiene
[hahy-jeen]
See more synonyms on Thesaurus.com
noun

1. Also hygienics. the science that deals with the preservation of health.
2. a condition or practice conducive to the preservation of health, as cleanliness.

That bolded portion is key.

People would take health and fitness more seriously if they understood that it's just as important as brushing your teeth or taking a bath, and ignoring it would fall victim to the same social sanctions.

Aquamarine said:

Yup...losing weight is actually really simple:

(1) Dramatically lower your portion sizes. Eat 1/3rd of what you used to.
(2) You'll be starving every single night, but that's normal. Your stomach is so bloated and stretched from obesity that it thinks massive portions are normal, and normal portions are starvation levels...but that's not the case.
(3) With time, your stomach will shrink dramatically and those "tiny portions" will fill you right up.


Here's a simple barometer: if you're fat and you feel full, you've eaten way too much.

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Thinking any part of that is simple is part of the problem.

DigitalOp said:

I did see that part, that's why I mentioned the food.

And what you explain is exactly what is driving me nuts. You can already see who's jumped in the thread and who is seeing "plussize" or biggersized people as obesity outright.

And that's fucked up. There is a big difference between overweight and obesity. And people better have some nuance and some respect before spreading their bullshit.

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Those terms, like I said, are completely arbitrary. Overweight and obese are at least tied to some quantifiable BMI range, but "plussize" and "biggersized" have completely different meanings depending on the person. Your idea might be of a person much smaller than someone else's, and that's largely from the stigma of even discussing the topic preventing any sort of definition from being established

As someone who has suffered from both weight and depression issues, IMO, being mean to me/overweight people (social pressure in other words) is FAR more effective than body-positivity and talking to your doctor to motivate you to actually make a lifestyle change. That's just my experience though. No idea if there have been any studies into it.

Also, DigitalOp they aren't 'conflating' plus-size with obesity, plus-size is and always has been a euphemism for overweight. And for guys it also used to be 'husky'. And for everyone it has been 'big boned'. It all means overweight.



I just hope everyone can eventually find both positivity and good health in their own lives.

I have noticed at my local Target that the Plus Size section is the first section you see when entering into the main middle clothing section. If that ain't a sign, I don't know what is.

America done threw in the towel. It's okay to be unhealthily fat. When 40% of the populace is obese or nearing obese, you know we are screwed.

We should really be giving better subsidies to local farmers (everywhere with weight problems not just the UK) so we can lower the cost of healthy food and ingredients. And give people whith lower incomes a better chance of eating healthy food.

I think we all knew this was going to happen but didn't say it due to 'fat-shaming' embarrassment. There's nothing positive from heart issues and diabetes.

Here's the thing about fat people. And I can say this because I've struggled with my weight. They know they're fat. They know how people look at them when they walk down the street. The idea that people are in denial is mostly not true. They know they are fat but they lie to themselves because they keep failing at bettering themselves. And even as they lie to themselves they know the truth. It just makes it easier to get through the day. They don't need society to tell them that they are fat. They don't need society to tell them that they are unhealthy. They don't even need society to say "We accept you fat person". They need society to tell them "We want you to be happy. Maybe you're fat and it's very depressing for you. Maybe you are fat and you've accepted that about yourself. Maybe you are fat and you are happy. You can be fat and be happy and still know that you should try to lose weight. You can be happy and still want to improve yourself. Even if the pounds don't come flying off, you can improve your health and your quality of life."

What fat people need is people who believe in them regardless of if they succeed or fail, because unless their weight gain is because of an injury or disease, it's probably the symptom of something else. You're not looking a fat person. You're looking at an abuse survivor. You're looking at someone who has dealt with lifelong depression. You're looking at someone who grew up poor and developed unhealthy eating habits to compensate. You're looking at someone who has never believed in themselves. You're looking at someone who was never told they were worth a damn.

It's so easy to say that the solution is diet and exercise, but you're treating the symptom and not the cause. Maybe they can overcome it with diet and exercise, or maybe it will be a constant hurdle until they learn to deal with the trauma that created the person they are now.

Anyway, I can't speak for everyone. I know there are people who glamorize obesity and I don't know what goes through their or anyone else's mind. Just my perspective from my own meanderings through life.

Metalingus said:

Yeah I'm sure all this time fat people have been coddled.

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Nowadays? Most definitely.

Spoo said:

Like, if it was easy to eat healthy, this wouldn't be as much of a problem as it is. Eating a snack at a movie is going to crush half of your caloric budget. That's not okay -- it's not a meal, it's a snack.

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What the hell are you eating at cinema that is 1000 kcal? And is it really hard to just stop from doing it?

I got fairly overweight in a span of 1-2 yearsand peaked about 1 year ago. I've lost the grand majority of that weight via a healthier lifestyle in general. While I don't agree with fat shaming necessarily as normally it's more about the looks and attractiveness when that is being discussed, I can't deny that the people telling me I got really fat and the constant jokes didn't ultimately have a positive effect on me to finally stop being so lazy and change my bad habits.

I feel more confident, feel healthier, feel better about myself about wearing clothes and overall I can't ever see myself going back to such an unhealthy lifestyle that lead me to where I got.

When somebody calls out a kid for being chubby or obese to make fun of him that sucks and as a whole it should be avoided, but if people had kept telling me I was fine the way I was I would not have pushed to improve myself to where I am and aim to continue to improve.

It's a tough situation. Fat shaming is awful, leads to depresssion, sucide etc.

But normalizing being very overweight has major negativ implications for public health and health care costs.

Society has to find a way to balance the two issues.

DigitalOp said:

I'm not talking about obesity.


I'm talking about body type. Which is mainly going to be determined by your genetics and family history. And then further affected by diet and food available.

We all aren't born at a standard weight. We all don't have the same bodies.

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If this is about somatotypes (endo/ecto/meso) then it has long been considered bullshit by scientists. We don't all have the same bodies, and while genetics can play a part, it's mainly environmental factors which affect it.

You obviously need to consider the dangers of the whole body acceptance movement in normalising obesity and unhealthy lifestyles, preventing people from wanting to improve their health outcomes. And no, the only other solution in the world isn't fat shaming. You can tell people about the dangers of being obese and how to address it without completely demoralising them.

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Body positivity has nothing to do with any of the things in the OP.
Plus size clothing by fashion standards is like the lowest levels of fat shaming =P

Body positivy means people being pissed a "non perfect" women is eating a cake because it will kill her while that person is a stressed fuck smoking a cigar and not seeing the double standard in it.

There is a HUGE distance of weights between what were being fat shamed and what actually brings problems to your health.
And the insanely skinny (which most of the time also brings problems to your health) not being more an "ideal" also helps more than hurt

The Almighty Tria said:

Nowadays? Most definitely.

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fat shaming is the majority of what happens.
acting like fat positive is the majority is straight up bullshit

According to ERA, the above people are being considered obese, unhealthy and are being coddled for accepting their bodies.



Some of you posters in here are scum. What an ugly view of people you have.

Pisses me off to no end.

Arc said:

I don't think people totally understand the weight threshold to overweight and obese. A lot of people who think they're in an acceptable range are probably overweight.

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Also I think many people don't realise where the line of obese goes. It's lower than most probably think.

Here's me just above overweight at obese. I always thought of myself at not obese, but that's what living in an obese society does to your self perception.

Google "plus size" and you don't get pictures of people who are ten pounds overweight with love handles, you get pictures of obesity. Glamours pictures of obese models.

DigitalOp said:

According to ERA, the above people are being considered obese, unhealthy and are being coddled for accepting their bodies.

Some of you posters in here are scum. What an ugly view of people you have.

Pisses me off to no end.

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Most of those people are undeniably obese.

DigitalOp said:

According to ERA, the above people are being considered obese, unhealthy and are being coddled for accepting their bodies.



Some of you posters in here are scum. What an ugly view of people you have.

Pisses me off to no end.

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You can't help but read obese as an insult, like stupid, when that's incorrect.

Obese is a bodyfat/bodyfat percentage classification.

I would bet most of the people pictured are obese.

Spare us your childish insults.

We anit here for a long time we're here for a good time!

But seriously theres many layers that need to be covered to tackle this issue. Income, mental health, and access to healthy foods/weight management programs should all be worked on.

Personally I know I'm overweight and its all due to the reasons listed above along with my family history of being overweight.

Obesity a symptom of an addiction: I am in the middle of trying to lose weight as well, and eating less has the consequence of leaving you distracted, lethargic, and irritable.

Rather than shaming people (which will probably work as well as shaming other sorts of addicts), society as a whole should work towards providing social support towards weight loss.

Metalingus said:

fat shaming is the majority of what happens.
acting like fat positive is the majority is straight up bullshit

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No one said it is, but it's the most prevalent message in the media currently, which is far more dangerous than you're letting on.

Spoo said:

Like, if it was easy to eat healthy, this wouldn't be as much of a problem as it is. Eating a snack at a movie is going to crush half of your caloric budget.

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This epitomizes the problem. People say a tax on unhealthy foods would help, but you basically have cinema foods being INCREDIBLY marked up and still not deterring people from buying them. Even if salad places were the cheapest options around, people would just bite the bullet and go for the more expensive, "tastier", but less healthy, options.

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Its the huge portions here and not to mention the super easy access to cheap fast food everywhere. I was in Virginia a few months ago and literally the only options were a diner, mcdonalds, some fried chicken place and Burger King. It's also way cheaper than in the big cities. You're getting like 2 burgers, a hot dog, fries, a cookie and a large soda for $5 out there. It's insane.

adrem007 said:

What the hell are you eating at cinema that is 1000 kcal? And is it really hard to just stop from doing it?

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Well, I mean candies / snacks (like a smoothie, or a box of junior mints, etc) these things can range from low end 350 calories (about a meal's worth) all the way to 1000+ calories for a single hot dog. And people don't stop there; they're gonna do popcorn, a drink (not diet, because people hate that diet taste, lol), and you're going to chew through an entire day's worth of your allowed caloric intake before you've gotten to dinner time.

And of course, when we eat, we eat out a lot, and people need to stop doing that. Home cooked meals, smaller portions, a lot of the advice in this thread is good and if most people who are overweight took to just counting calories for a few months they'd see insane weight loss.

It's not hard to lose weight (generally), but you need to first see obesity as a problem. It's like alcoholism; you're not going to quit drinking if you don't see it as a problem.

The Almighty Tria said:

No one said it is, but it's the most prevalent message in the media currently, which is far more dangerous than you're letting on.

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How is fat positivity the most prevalent message in the media currently?

Metalingus said:

How is fat positivity the most prevalent message in the media currently?

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Because it's normalizing fatness and treating it as beauty, which is dangerous.

BlackGoku03 said:

If that was the best solution, we wouldn't be having this conversation. It's more nuanced than that.

Mental health
Healthy food prices
Access to Healthcare
Access to workout facilities

All need to be addressed.

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Well obviously it's not enough to tell people the truth but it's the starting point. There are plenty of delusional people out there who actually believe this healthy at every size bullshit.

Other than that there are several steps that need to be taken to fight the obesity epidemic:

1. Fight obesity were it starts for most, in their childhood. Parents of obese kids need to be busted for child abuse.

2. Education. Kids need to learn how to cook healthy food and how gaining/losing weight works. Also focus on physical activity.

3. Tax the shit out of soft drinks and fast food/unhealthy food.

4. Access to healthy food especially in poor neighborhoods.

I struggle with portion control. I am a stress eater at heart and I recognize that. But what I do to "correct" this is work out 5 times a week and run about a marathon worth of miles each week. So, I guess I'm like a Dr. Cox from Scrubs.

The Almighty Tria said:

Because it's normalizing fatness and treating it as beauty, which is dangerous.

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What are some examples of this?
Also fat people can't be beautiful?

ERA is tolerant and empathetic to you unless you're fat

Chittagong said:

Also I think many people don't realise where the line of obese goes. It's lower than most probably think.

Here's me just above overweight at obese. I always thought of myself at not obese, but that's what living in an obese society does to your self perception.

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Hopefully you're not using BMI for your "obese" classification, because BMI isn't very good.

DigitalOp said:

According to ERA, the above people are being considered obese, unhealthy and are being coddled for accepting their bodies.



Some of you posters in here are scum. What an ugly view of people you have.

Pisses me off to no end.

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Plug their height in metres and weight in kg into a BMI calculator. If they're in the obese classification then they're obese. It's as simple as that.

I suggest you get off your computer and calm down. Calling everyone with an opposing view to yourself "scum" isn't exactly inviting great debate.

The Almighty Tria said:

Because it's normalizing fatness and treating it as beauty, which is dangerous.

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All fat people confirmed ugly

The Almighty Tria said:

No one wants to go back to fat shaming, but celebrating obesity is dangerous and stupid. Being fat is not a positive, it's a dangerous and costly thing and is waaaaaaaaay too prevalent in this country.

We should not be shaming them, but we should NOT be coddling them like we have been doing.

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This.

The push for body positivity about obesity is bizarre. There is nothing positive about obesity. Stop trying to normalize it. I recognize that genetics can play a role in some, but let's be honest: most people can't be bothered to count calories, do portion control, or work out.

Zornack said:

Google "plus size" and you don't get pictures of people who are ten pounds overweight with love handles, you get pictures of obesity. Glamours pictures of obese models.



Most of those people are undeniable obese.

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cagey said:

You can't help but read obese as an insult, like stupid, when that's incorrect.

Obese is a bodyfat/bodyfat percentage classification.

I would bet most of the people pictured are obese.

Spare us your childish insults.

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Congrats, you're technically correct assholes.

The funniest apart about all of this is I havent seen not one nation of people that all shared the same bodytype....

So where did this insistence that ALL people must be slim in order to be healthy come from? Esp when people wildly vary from height to height.

Yall so quick to talk about BMI and shit and don't even realize it wasnt even created by a fucking doctor.

also cagey you gonna sit here and act like the US doesn't use the term obese as an insult? Irregardless of how benign the medical term is, really?