Normalisation of 'plus-size' risks hidden danger of obesity, study finds (Read OP)

iksenpets · Jun 22, 2018

It doesn't seem that hard to me to balance that no one should treat fat people badly, and stores should cater to their needs in terms of plus-sized clothing so they can dress well, but we shouldn't pretend that obesity isn't unhealthy or that public policy shouldn't be built around encouraging more healthy eating and exercise.

Trying to build stigma around it clearly doesn't work, but everyone benefits from efforts to encourage health, overweight or not, and regardless of whether those efforts actually help them lose weight. Public shame, or insisting that stores only provide them loose sacks to dress in just creates misery for no benefit.

The Almighty Tria · Jun 22, 2018

DigitalOp said:
The conflation of someone being plussize/bigger sized to people being obese is fucking disrespectful and fucked up.

It's all genetics. Not ever person is going to be a stick figure or 130lbs. How about we target this countries fucked up food situation where it's entirely easier to buy bullshit meals than healthier alternative choices.

People shouldn't be fucking demonized for having different bodytypes.

Stop spreading these lies just because people saying obesity is a bad thing. This shit is dangerous. Very little of it has to do with genetics and you do not know what you're talking about.

FinFunnels · Jun 22, 2018

Nothing is being hidden. We all know that being overweight is unhealthy. But being overweight doesn't mean that a person isn't beautiful or worthy of being loved and respected.

THE GUY · Jun 22, 2018

Volimar said:
Here's the thing about fat people. And I can say this because I've struggled with my weight. They know they're fat. They know how people look at them when they walk down the street. The idea that people are in denial is mostly not true. They know they are fat but they lie to themselves because they keep failing at bettering themselves. And even as they lie to themselves they know the truth. It just makes it easier to get through the day. They don't need society to tell them that they are fat. They don't need society to tell them that they are unhealthy. They don't even need society to say "We accept you fat person". They need society to tell them "We want you to be happy. Maybe you're fat and it's very depressing for you. Maybe you are fat and you've accepted that about yourself. Maybe you are fat and you are happy. You can be fat and be happy and still know that you should try to lose weight. You can be happy and still want to improve yourself. Even if the pounds don't come flying off, you can improve your health and your quality of life."

What fat people need is people who believe in them regardless of if they succeed or fail, because unless their weight gain is because of an injury or disease, it's probably the symptom of something else. You're not looking a fat person. You're looking at an abuse survivor. You're looking at someone who has dealt with lifelong depression. You're looking at someone who grew up poor and developed unhealthy eating habits to compensate. You're looking at someone who has never believed in themselves. You're looking at someone who was never told they were worth a damn.

It's so easy to say that the solution is diet and exercise, but you're treating the symptom and not the cause. Maybe they can overcome it with diet and exercise, or maybe it will be a constant hurdle until they learn to deal with the trauma that created the person they are now.

Anyway, I can't speak for everyone. I know there are people who glamorize obesity and I don't know what goes through their or anyone else's mind. Just my perspective from my own meanderings through life.

This is pretty solid.

Someone's self worth shouldn't be judged by their weight. Their health however is a different matter. And that's the link that needs to be focused on. There simply needs to be education from an early age into teaching peeps about calories, portion control, and generally healthy eating. You can get your weight under control even without exercise and your body will thank you for it in the future. It's less strain on the heart. There's no such thing as healthy obesity. If you're 40 lbs overweight, it really doesn't matter if you can run 2 miles. That shit is wrecking you and will have an impact in the long-term.

Deleted member 35011 · Jun 22, 2018

I will say, back when I was trying to lose weight(never obese, but I was a tad overweight for a bit) the one thing that made the process the hardest were my well-meaning friends who tried to downplay any issues with being overweight and convince me to eat more. I ended up having to basically hide when I exercised and lie about having already eaten so I didn't have to be on the receiving end of a lecture about how I should stop trying to lose weight lol Being a dick to fat people is obviously a bad thing, but sometimes the message gets taken too far.

Deleted member 2533 · Jun 22, 2018

The obesity epidemic starts young, children develop lifelong habits and it puts them on a difficult path. Schools need to spend more money on providing healthy lunches/breakfast programmes and giving more time to gym class, more recess time, active field trips like hiking, skiing, and camping, and deemphasising sceen-time and sedation. It costs money up front, but the costs of medical intervention at increasingly younger ages is much worse.

carlsojo · Jun 22, 2018

Bakercat said:
Nothing sucks more than having endocrine failure and your weight fluctuates around 50-100 pounds every year due to stress and such. Some people have it much harder to lose and maintain weight then others. Sometimes there is more going on then just laziness and junk food.

I would be curious to know what percent of obese people have endocrine and genetic issues that are out of their control.

The Almighty Tria · Jun 22, 2018

Metalingus said:
A buzz feed article, oh wow. Such a big media push. You suggesting the article should shame them instead? lol

So, just as I thought, you were looking to be offended and now that you were caught with your pants down you are backtracking and are just going to shoot down every example.

Aaaannnnddd ignore list, buh-bye!

808s & Villainy · Jun 22, 2018

Bakercat said:
Nothing sucks more than having endocrine failure and your weight fluctuates around 50-100 pounds every year due to stress and such. Some people have it much harder to lose and maintain weight then others. Sometimes there is more going on then just laziness and junk food.

I don't think anyone is denying that, but factually, the people who have genetic related issues (endocrine/thyroid related) are in the minority, as well as the people who have significant enough muscle that BMI becomes inaccurate. These discussions always seem to frame those issues as being what the majority deal with and quash any attempts at advocating portion control as a viable solution

Zornack · Jun 22, 2018

Hobbesian Thudercat said:
Or if you're young. Or elderly. Or pregnant. In the abstract, it's useless. What's more useful is your cardiovascular health, BMR and body fat %. Add in the fact that people should be shooting to increase their muscle mass as a principle of health and fitness anyway, and the BMI becomes barely useful as a starting point at best.

All true but we're dealing with a population of people with low muscle mass who don't get enough exercise and eat way too much. For them a BMI chart is more than good enough to inform them that they're obese.

Deleted member 6230 · Jun 22, 2018

I feel like obesity threads are among the most contentious threads on these forums.

Beartruck · Jun 22, 2018

SweetVermouth said:
There is a difference between overweight and obese. I personally don't mind if someone is overweight and has a few pounds more on their hips, but being over 300lb should not be celebrated.

I have never a "low salt" version of anything and it also doesn't make you lose weight because salt doesn't have any calories.

I take it you don't have many canned or frozen veggies. At least at my grocer it's very common.

riotous · Jun 22, 2018

bane833 said:
BMI works for 99% of the population. No need to attack it just because it says something you don't want to hear.

Yeah it's ridiculous the scorn it gets on the internet, and how people claim that it's now disregarded by science.

Except for..most world / national health organization still uses it.. doctors still use it..

https://www.nhs.uk/Tools/Pages/Healthyweightcalculator.aspx?
https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/educational/lose_wt/BMI/bmicalc.htm?source=quickfitnesssolutions
https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/assessing/bmi/adult_bmi/index.html

It's better for measuring populations than it is individuals; people well outside typical variations of body type should be aware of that (really short, really tall, really muscular, etc.)

Dook's Revenge · Jun 22, 2018

DigitalOp said:
According to ERA, the above people are being considered obese, unhealthy and are being coddled for accepting their bodies.

Some of you posters in here are scum. What an ugly view of people you have.

Pisses me off to no end.

These people do appear to be obese.

Why does that offend you?

Principate · Jun 22, 2018

SugarNoodles said:
...dad bods are examples of obesity?

I mean honestly potentially becoming obese isn't primary problem of being fat. Even if you simply overweight, truncal obesity leaves you in prime condition for major health event involving your heart in your 50's to 60's or diabete's risk factors. If you have a pot belly whatsoever your not doing well. Fat in the rest of body is not as much of an issue.

carlsojo · Jun 22, 2018

Velord said:
I will say, back when I was trying to lose weight(never obese, but I was a tad overweight for a bit) the one thing that made the process the hardest were my well-meaning friends who tried to downplay any issues with being overweight and convince me to eat more. I ended up having to basically hide when I exercised and lie about having already eaten so I didn't have to be on the receiving end of a lecture about how I should stop trying to lose weight lol Being a dick to fat people is obviously a bad thing, but sometimes the message gets taken too far.

My wife has this issue. She can't tell people at work she's dieting or they'll be all over her "you don't need to lose weight blah blah". She's still trying to get back to her pre-baby size.

TyrantGuardian · Jun 22, 2018

Bobson Dugnutt said:
you can have empathy when folks being bullied/feel like shit for being fat yet still be worried about increasing amounts of people posing a threat to their health/wellbeing and this being seen as ok

Really now? If you are so worried, maybe stop shaming them since it clearly hasn't worked in the US (or anywhere else, for that matter). This is just hatred being disguised as concern and it is disgusting as fuck.

Volimar · Jun 22, 2018

infinite said:
I feel like obesity threads are the most contentious threads on these forums.

Could I interest you in a circumcision thread?

Deleted member 1120 · Jun 22, 2018

infinite said:
I feel like obesity threads are the most contentious threads on these forums.

because a lot of people on here hate fat people and just want to be assholes about it. "I'm just telling the truth" is such a lovely defense. Also people thinking that the fat positivity movement is what the majority of people do.

Davidion · Jun 22, 2018

It's necessary at a high level to help people who are fat or obese strive for a healthier lifestyle while helping them maintain a positive, healthy amount of self-confidence. This is a complicated human issue of advocacy against a backdrop of a culture that pushes consumption at every turn and a society full of feckless assholes who are too stupid to understand that calling fat people fat is worthless jerking off and not enlightened truthtelling.

Managing communications on a societal level is difficult and requires nuance, but it can be done. Have some faith.

Wiped · Jun 22, 2018

I agree and I've always thought this

We should not celebrate or praise the morbidly obese
There is 'Not stick thin' and there is 'risking your own health' and the two should not be confused.

It's worrying. It's maintaining that 'feelings before facts' trend where what someone feels is more important than science and knowledge...

carlsojo · Jun 22, 2018

TyrantGuardian said:
Really now? If you are so worried, maybe stop shaming them since it clearly hasn't worked in the US (or anywhere else, for that matter). This is just hatred being disguised as concern and it is disgusting as fuck.

Also disgusting is trying to normalize a serious and ongoing health crisis.

The Almighty Tria · Jun 22, 2018

TyrantGuardian said:
Really now? If you are so worried, maybe stop shaming them since it clearly hasn't worked in the US (or anywhere else, for that matter). This is just hatred being disguised as concern and it is disgusting as fuck.

No one in this thread is shaming, stop making stuff up.

Rayne · Jun 22, 2018

Velord said:
I will say, back when I was trying to lose weight(never obese, but I was a tad overweight for a bit) the one thing that made the process the hardest were my well-meaning friends who tried to downplay any issues with being overweight and convince me to eat more. I ended up having to basically hide when I exercised and lie about having already eaten so I didn't have to be on the receiving end of a lecture about how I should stop trying to lose weight lol Being a dick to fat people is obviously a bad thing, but sometimes the message gets taken too far.

Yeah now this is bs. They should've been happy for you and encouraging. I had a friend that was doing the same thing and had to pretty much lecture everyone else to leave her alone about not wanting to eat. If she wasn't hungry leave her the hell alone. That shit is so obnoxious.

I Don't Like · Jun 22, 2018

People just need to listen to their fucking doctors. If he tells you your weight is affecting your health, lose weight. If you're otherwise healthy and you're comfortable with your weight, don't. Not that complicated.

Baji Boxer · Jun 22, 2018

I think one big problem is based on sex. The "body positive" psychology is largely in relation to far more women being cruely shamed for their body, even when no where near obese, often by men who give themselves' a pass for their own obesity or lack of fitness. Donald Trump is the most visible example of this in the world. It's neccesary to decrease the negativity, which didn't do anything to make people healthier.

btags · Jun 22, 2018

DigitalOp said:
So where did this insistence that ALL people must be slim in order to be healthy come from

First, using superlatives and absolutes is always stupid, so stop that. Second, I would say it mostly comes from quantitative biology and medicine.

Ukraine · Jun 22, 2018

So it's still cool to hate on fat people? I guess it depends on the person, but as somebody who struggled with weight my whole life I'd rather live shorter life but be happy in my body. That won't happen though because people keep judging. I can't even imagine how terrible this must be for women.

That said, making healthier foods more affordable would make a huge difference,

Yoshi · Jun 22, 2018

Cyanity said:
So what's the solution? Body-positivity culture allows people feel better about themselves on a day to day basis. Who are we to go back to fat-shaming? There must be a way to curb the obesity epidemic without making people feel like shit.

Being positive about being overweight is maybe wrong? One should not base one's whole value on one's weight, but the body positivity movement goes beyond that, with claims like "very body is beautiful". From my impression, instead of reducing the focus on visual appearance wrt self-esteem, it even promotes being content, happy even, with being overweight, which I deem problematic (though I am aware that others might have good reasons to disagree, comparing e.g. results like aborexia from a high emphasis on a good body shape to comparatively less dangerous results from body positivity, i.e. proliferation of overweightednes).

Baji Boxer · Jun 22, 2018

PlayALLTheGames said:
People just need to listen to their fucking doctors. If he tells you your weight is affecting your health, lose weight. If you're otherwise healthy and you're comfortable with your weight, don't. Not that complicated.

Basically. Idealy, weight shouldn't be shameful, just a fact about yourself that needs changed, or not, based on situation.

BronzeWolf · Jun 22, 2018

Antrax said:
Uhhh, pass

Just tell sick people to go to the doctor and improve healthcare of course. There's no reason to just come after a plus size person unless you're their doctor and have some evidence. My wife is a big girl and it's mostly genetic, which she learned in college from a specialist. But fucks like some of y'all still wanna come at her with "but what about your blood pressure"and shit.

I've told her she should just carry around a card with her stats to whip out when people do this, then ask them how they're doing on those metrics. I'd guess half of them are worse.

I say encourage. I am not saying force to.

I thank you for your anecdote, but epidemiological evidence points towards obesity and overweight issues being copart in Healthcare issues for most of the population regardless of genetic or predisposition conditions.

It's not my job to ask about your "blood pressure". That's your medical professional job. But if normalization is an issue, as the study claims, then we should work towards healthier consumers even if it's in detriment of plus sized consumers.

adrem007 · Jun 22, 2018

ITT: there is no fat acceptance movement what are you talking about hateful fucks
also ITT: BMI is stupid and everyone should be happy with their body no matter what

Deepthought_ · Jun 22, 2018

What is considered obese

Some people are chubby

While others are like that gamer dude on YouTube

Deleted member 1120 · Jun 22, 2018

Yoshi said:
Being positive about being overweight is maybe wrong? One should not base one's whole value on one's weight, but the body positivity movement goes beyond that, with claims like "very body is beautiful". From my impression, instead of reducing the focus on visual appearance wrt self-esteem, it even promotes being content, happy even, with being overweight, which I deem problematic (though I am aware that others might have good reasons to disagree, comparing e.g. results like aborexia from a high emphasis on a good body shape to comparatively less dangerous results from body positivity, i.e. proliferation of overweightednes).

You've got a problem of promoting someone being happy even though they're overweight?

That Guy · Jun 22, 2018

riotous said:
Yeah it's ridiculous the scorn it gets on the internet, and how people claim that it's now disregarded by science.

Except for..most world / national health organization still uses it.. doctors still use it..

https://www.nhs.uk/Tools/Pages/Healthyweightcalculator.aspx?
https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/educational/lose_wt/BMI/bmicalc.htm?source=quickfitnesssolutions
https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/assessing/bmi/adult_bmi/index.html

It's better for measuring populations than it is individuals; people well outside typical variations of body type should be aware of that (really short, really tall, really muscular, etc.)

Pretty much, BMI is still used when determining whether to proceed for a surgery and to calculate some drug doses. It obviously has its limitations and there are other, more accurate measurements out there but for the most part it does the job.

Ralemont · Jun 22, 2018

Metalingus said:
A buzz feed article, oh wow. Such a big media push. You suggesting the article should shame them instead? lol

No, and people suggesting that the ONLY alternative to fat positivity is shaming are constructing quite the strawman.

Don't shame.
Don't encourage.

Educate on the health risks and ways to improve, support those who express a desire to change.

Metalingus said:
You've got a problem of promoting someone being happy even though they're overweight?

Happy with being overweight and happy in spite of being overweight are two very different things.

DigitalOp · Jun 22, 2018

Zornack said:
For 99% of people, yes, we are. Obesity has nothing to do with metabolism differences. People eat way too much and move too little.

I agree that people dont eat good, eat too much, move too little. I disagree that we're 99% the same? What? you have a 100% totally different medical history than I do even if we ate the same exact diet.

carlsojo said:
Well I guess this is a good example of us needing to be better about educating our children about healthy eating and the dangers of obesity.

The Almighty Tria said:
Stop spreading these lies just because people saying obesity is a bad thing. This shit is dangerous. Very little of it has to do with genetics and you do not know what you're talking about.

"If you're big, you're unhealthy. You must be small. Everyone must be small. The best way to combat obesity is to be a fucking asshole and tell people their fat and not shit. Look how much better than others I am. I lack the intelligence or the nuance to incorporate positive reinforcement, acceptance, healthy dietary choices, and a push for an active lifestyle to help people get healthier without shitting on them simply because IM RIGHT"

rstzkpf · Jun 22, 2018

adrem007 said:
ITT: there is no fat acceptance movement what are you talking about hateful fucks
also ITT: BMI is stupid and everyone should be happy with their body no matter what

Well, there was a so-called "Health At Any Size" movement, but that apparently ended after many of its leaders died of heart attacks and other obesity-related health problems.

Catvoca · Jun 22, 2018

Volimar said:
Here's the thing about fat people. And I can say this because I've struggled with my weight. They know they're fat. They know how people look at them when they walk down the street. The idea that people are in denial is mostly not true. They know they are fat but they lie to themselves because they keep failing at bettering themselves. And even as they lie to themselves they know the truth. It just makes it easier to get through the day. They don't need society to tell them that they are fat. They don't need society to tell them that they are unhealthy. They don't even need society to say "We accept you fat person". They need society to tell them "We want you to be happy. Maybe you're fat and it's very depressing for you. Maybe you are fat and you've accepted that about yourself. Maybe you are fat and you are happy. You can be fat and be happy and still know that you should try to lose weight. You can be happy and still want to improve yourself. Even if the pounds don't come flying off, you can improve your health and your quality of life."

What fat people need is people who believe in them regardless of if they succeed or fail, because unless their weight gain is because of an injury or disease, it's probably the symptom of something else. You're not looking a fat person. You're looking at an abuse survivor. You're looking at someone who has dealt with lifelong depression. You're looking at someone who grew up poor and developed unhealthy eating habits to compensate. You're looking at someone who has never believed in themselves. You're looking at someone who was never told they were worth a damn.

It's so easy to say that the solution is diet and exercise, but you're treating the symptom and not the cause. Maybe they can overcome it with diet and exercise, or maybe it will be a constant hurdle until they learn to deal with the trauma that created the person they are now.

Anyway, I can't speak for everyone. I know there are people who glamorize obesity and I don't know what goes through their or anyone else's mind. Just my perspective from my own meanderings through life.

Completely with you, that's been my experience too.

Hey Please · Jun 22, 2018

I don't understand this:

If your GP advises that you're at risk due to your weight then it's a health issue. Otherwise you're good. I know fashion industry has wrongly celebrated the borderline and the anorexic to the detriment of so many young people (which is thankfully changing due to years of push back and criticisms) and so I personally don't see why we need to do the same for plus size if they are at risk. And again, as aforementioned, skinny or big, as long as you're assessed to be physically healthy by your GP, the rest is being comfortable in your own skin.

Shiloh · Jun 22, 2018

I'm a dude who dates bears, am I part of the problem?

Deleted member 19066 · Jun 22, 2018

TyrantGuardian said:
Did they now? So the people stating that fat shaming is merely telling the truth doesn't imply that's what they think people should be doing? We have people citing "medical obesity" based on fucking BMI to justify their hatred for crying out loud. I'm assuming every single one of the people advocating for this also walk up to every smoker you see on the street and lecture them on how they will die prematurely.

Cigarette packs tell you they can kill you now so there's not much need. But when it comes to unhealthy foods, the deck is stacked again your average person (at least in America.) We have yogurt that advertises itself as a healthy snack when it contains as much sugar as a can of soda. Our bread is full of sugar. Our sports drinks are full of sugar. Everyone deserves a positive body image, and no one deserves to be shamed, but our food and sedentary lifestyle is killing us.

carlsojo · Jun 22, 2018

PlayALLTheGames said:
People just need to listen to their fucking doctors. If he tells you your weight is affecting your health, lose weight. If you're otherwise healthy and you're comfortable with your weight, don't. Not that complicated.

I remember this one patient I had who just gushed over her doctor because he never brought up her weight or told her to lose any. She was grossly obese and bathing her and the smell under her folds haunted me for days.

Deleted member 12224 · Jun 22, 2018

riotous said:
Yeah it's ridiculous the scorn it gets on the internet, and how people claim that it's now disregarded by science.

Except for..most world / national health organization still uses it.. doctors still use it..

https://www.nhs.uk/Tools/Pages/Healthyweightcalculator.aspx?
https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/educational/lose_wt/BMI/bmicalc.htm?source=quickfitnesssolutions
https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/assessing/bmi/adult_bmi/index.html

It's better for measuring populations than it is individuals; people well outside typical variations of body type should be aware of that (really short, really tall, really muscular, etc.)

BMI in these threads winds up as an intellectual trap, of sorts, because it lures people into citing the aforementioned anecdotal cases ("I know X who is morbidly obese because they lift a lot", etc.) as a means of invalidating the entire concept.

A generally useful measurement isn't invalid because you can cite some exceptions.

TyrantGuardian · Jun 22, 2018

btags said:
First, using superlatives and absolutes is always stupid, so stop that. Second, I would say it mostly comes from quantitative biology and medicine.

I would argue that the health risks from being overweight are highly overstated by pop culture. Doctors, when talking about being overweight, usually mention it as a general concern because it has a relevant but not necessarily alarming relation to a few diseases like diabetes. It's obviously better to have average BMI than being medically overweight and certainly, if someone is incredibly obese there are plenty of health risks that come along with that but none of that gives others license to body shame anyone regardless. You're just being an asshole unless the person has specifically asked you for advice and support because they personally want to lose weight.

In short: No one is going to drop dead in 2 weeks from being medically overweight, so stop screaming at them that they will.

Dook's Revenge · Jun 22, 2018

Ersatzkopf said:
Well, there was a so-called "Health At Any Size" movement, but that apparently ended after many of its leaders died of heart attacks and other obesity-related health problems.

Probably just coincidence.

PatMan · Jun 22, 2018

Metalingus said:
You've got a problem of promoting someone being happy even though they're overweight?

Nothing is wrong with that, but perhaps we can shift the conversation to "you'd be more happy if you were a healthy weight". Both positive and encourages healthy behavior. I think most people who are overweight would agree life would be better/they would be happier if they were a healthy weight

carlsojo · Jun 22, 2018

DigitalOp said:
I agree that people dont eat good, eat too much, move too little. I disagree that we're 99% the same? What? you have a 100% totally different medical history than I do even if we ate the same exact diet.

"If you're big, you're unhealthy. You must be small. Everyone must be small. The best way to combat obesity is to be a fucking asshole and tell people their fat and not shit. Look how much better than others I am. I lack the intelligence or the nuance to incorporate positive reinforcement, acceptance, healthy dietary choices, and a push for an active lifestyle to help people get healthier without shitting on them simply because IM RIGHT"

Holy shit kid maybe do some research on obesity and the many many health issues it can cause. Or maybe go outside and play.

NinjaScooter · Jun 22, 2018

PlayALLTheGames said:
People just need to listen to their fucking doctors. If he tells you your weight is affecting your health, lose weight. If you're otherwise healthy and you're comfortable with your weight, don't. Not that complicated.

Not everyone is able to go to a doctor, which is another problem. Until societal changes are made, shaming people (not that that is what you are doing, speaking more generally) or telling them they are lazy isn't going to help the situation. Access to medical care, access to healthy foods, access to the time needed to exercise regularly, is often something out of people's control.

Rayne · Jun 22, 2018

carlsojo said:
I remember this one patient I had who just gushed over her doctor because he never brought up her weight or told her to lose any. She was grossly obese and bathing her and the smell under her folds haunted me for days.

That's disgusting.

Also if you're gonna be fat that's whatever but getting to the point you can't bathe yourself? I'd kill myself before that point fuck that.

Normalisation of 'plus-size' risks hidden danger of obesity, study finds (Read OP)

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