Burned out of stealth kills....

Father Kratos · Jun 23, 2018

Started playing Horizon recently. Everything is great, however, I am a bit bored of this game mechanic where you hide and monitor enemy patterns using some sort of gadget and then stealthy kill them. Some of the games, I've played recently where this mechanic was "part" of the gameplay -

1. Wolfenstein TNO, TOB
2. Uncharted 4
3. The Evil Within
4. RoTR

Stealth is not mandatory, but still it feels like you are forced to use it. For example, in UC4, you will otherwise be facing half a dozen enemies,several of them having shotguns and snipers make it even harder. Same for Horizon, where at least in the beginning you are not that strong to take on multiple machines at once and limited ammo in TEW makes you go the stealth route.

Compared to last gen, seems like more n more games are using this mechanic or maybe as I mostly play SP action adventure games, I am noticing it more often. From the trailers looks like this will be heavily used in upcoming games like -
1. TLOU 2
2. Death Stranding
3. GoT(at some point)
4. Days Gone

There are enough games without it too, GoW, Yakuza, Doom to name a few. All in all, I am feeling burned out of it. What about you guys, do you enjoy this game mechanic?

Deleted member 7450 · Jun 23, 2018

Deleted member 1413 · Jun 23, 2018

I still like them, though they are admittedly in a ton of games.
Mostly just sucks if it's a terrible experience if you get caught

Velocity:Design:Comfort · Jun 23, 2018

Thank you, OP. EVERY third person game barring souls and gow basically demands you using these and they feel identical across multiple publishers and developers entire outputs. Things need to change imo.

Deleted member 42221 · Jun 23, 2018

Agreed, Horizon's stealth felt so cookie cutter and boring that I just straight up dropped the game. Would not complain if the sequel got rid of human enemies completely.

To make a great stealth game, there's got to be variety in options for gameplay. Think about how many options - some completely wild - that Deus Ex or Metal Gear Solid 3 give you. Those games are replayable as hell.

For most modern AAA stealth systems there's basically 3 options - throwable distraction noise, stealth Melee kills, and headshots. From The Last of Us to Horizon. It feels uninspired and boring.

Ailanthium · Jun 23, 2018

It's really not necessary in Horizon: Zero Dawn, but it is useful for dealing with enemy camps and there's no real way to override machines without stealth mechanics. I do agree with you in general though. Wolfenstein doesn't play all that well as a stealth game so it's frustrating when you feel forced to take that route. I don't think there's anything wrong with giving players that option, though.

Unicorn · Jun 23, 2018

Stealth Kills just make me miss Tenchu. They were all so fucking good.

Aragami is mainly disappointing because the stealth kill animations suck.

NO!R · Jun 23, 2018

Don't hate on stealth, dawg.

EJS · Jun 23, 2018

Yeah, I'm not a fan. It's implemented almost exactly the same across the board.

SunhiLegend · Jun 23, 2018

I put well over 100 hours into Horizon and quite a lot into Uncharted 4 and I barely used stealth at all, Uncharted I basically played it like an action movie, same goes for Horizon really and had a blast, don't need to use stealth if you don't want to. You're not forced to unless you play on higher difficulties, in that case just turn the difficulty down.

Zhukov · Jun 23, 2018

I remember when stealth was a niche genre. It's kinda weird to see it in everything.

I'm not burned out on it exactly, but it is getting awfully samey. A lot of games don't even do it well. The amount of games in which you can effortlessly clear areas by luring enemies out one by one or basically remote control them by throwing things to make a noise is pretty crazy.

The thing that is really starting to irritate me is games always trying to combine action and stealth. The two systems tend to work at cross purposes. The availability of action makes the stealth feel like a waste of time. If I get spotted... so the fuck what, I can just murder everything anyway. On the other side, the action is made pathetically easy because all the enemies are nice and spread out, I always have the drop on them and they spend half their time staring at walls in order to accommodate the stealth playstyle.

The amount of games that do both styles well and make them feel like a cohesive whole could be counted on one hand.

Cathcart · Jun 23, 2018

I'm burned out on games that don't let me stealth past or use non lethal takedowns for the entire game (including bosses).

Psychonaut · Jun 23, 2018

I don't think there's anything wrong with providing the tools necessary for a stealthy play style. I love stealth, and will always utilize it to its fullest potential if it's an option. Some games, however, should (and in my experience do) provide other ways of dealing with things. Stealth is not at all necessary in Uncharted or Horizon, but I appreciate that they allow for player choice.

EDIT: On Wolfenstein, I loved the TNO could be played either way with ease, but they bungled stealth in TNC and made it much less viable than it was before. That's doing it bad.

Deleted member 15447 · Jun 23, 2018

I can see where you're coming from but it's a minor part of Horizon or at the very least certainly not necessary.

I have finished the game on the highest DLC added difficulty level and rarely HD to use stealth kills or overrides.

And rarely did I want to, the fighting and hit points on the enemies is just so much fun.

I do agree with Uncharted though.

Kyle Cross · Jun 23, 2018

I literally started playing games with emphasis on stealth on Easy so I can just go full action, even did it on Horizon and it's much more fun. First game I ever did it was MGS3 and I literally went Rambo, and won't have anyone tell me I played it wrong cause I had a great time.

hydruxo · Jun 23, 2018

You don't really have to use stealth in Horizon if you don't want to. Like you said you have to sort of use it a bit during the beginning hours but the vast majority of the game you can go in to battles without using stealth whatsoever. Use bomb slings / war bows / traps along with the slo-mo abilities in HZD and you're golden.

psynergyadept · Jun 23, 2018

well in Horizon just flip the script; go all out, I don't think there's was any set piece that required stealth in Horizon.

Karak · Jun 23, 2018

More varied AI would help me personally

Strat · Jun 23, 2018

I enjoy stealth mechanics and stealth kills, but you're right that they're a way overused mechanic in way too many action games. Just reading your lists made me tired, OP.

Laughing Banana · Jun 23, 2018

I'm playing Assassin's Creed Origins right now and there are times where I just said Eh, Fuck It and go in there like a madman brawling and killing all the guards like a lunatic berserker, lol.

signal · Jun 23, 2018

Such a small amount of titles mentioned compared to the overall amount of releases. Why is this more tiring than "guns blazing" style gameplay, where way more than 4 titles could be listed.

SmittyWerbenManJensen · Jun 23, 2018

Stealth in games is responsible for burning our crops, poisoning our water supply, and setting a plague on our houses!

I agree

BouncyFrag · Jun 23, 2018

Laughing Banana said:
I'm playing Assassin's Creed Origins right now and there are times where I just said Eh, Fuck It and go in there like a madman brawling and killing all the guards like a lunatic berserker, lol.

That's when the random cool shit happens like when a hippo shows up. Now that's a party.

KomandaHeck · Jun 23, 2018

BiGBoSSMk23 said:
Don't hate on stealth, dawg.

Stealth games are among my favourites, but I feel the ubiquitous implementation of it since around the time Last of Us originally released has been a crutch for a lot of games.

I'm tired of hiding in waist high underbrush, whistling or throwing a bottle to draw attention then tapping a single button to perform a takedown. That it's offered as an option in many games that are designed to also be competent shooters ends up often creating an identity crisis where the game is simply mediocre across the board and nothing stands out as truly excellent design.

I'm not saying a balance can't be struck, but I see a lot of games resort to this kind of design seemingly just because it's proven to work and feel the genre needs an adrenaline shot.

Heid · Jun 23, 2018

AAA stealth mechanics kind of came to a jarring halt

Watch NPC, NPC does patrol, sneak up or hide until they walk by, takedown. Its so stale that DXHRs NPCs turning around while walking in one direction felt like a notable addition.

Another stealth trope? Traq a baddy. Baddy falls asleep. Baddy friend walks up to check up on sleepy baddy. Traq the baddy. Rinse and repeat until you have a pile of bodies.

I want to see NPCs drop smoke to revive their team mates. If I start shooting through that, then they start uses flash nades. I want biometrics so whenever you take down an NPC, HQ sees their heart rate stopped and notifies everyone of their position. I want the level to lock down and never open up again because "oh that guy who killed half our security just disappeared for 60 seconds. Guess he stopped existing. Everyone go home."

All this would probably be terrible for an action game wheres its about being actual fun but just gimme Deus Ex style game with deep stealth mechanics pls

I've hear snippets that MGSV does a lot of interesting things but I've avoided 'gameplay spoilers' for now (backlog life)

skeezx · Jun 23, 2018

immersive as games are now it's kind of mandatory for some kind of stealth mechanic. aside from stuff like Doom it doesn't make sense for a bunch of enemy AI to instantly lock onto you

i thought wolfenstein TNO was a good balance, where the stealth kill option is kind of just there for certain instances. i don't think i've used it or felt forced to use it outside of a handful of times. haven't played the second one so can't speak for how it's handled there

AlexBasch · Jun 23, 2018

*get caught
*reload checkpoint

Yeah, it's tiring.

100%TrophyMaster · Jun 23, 2018

I love stealth games—Evil Within, Dishonored, Assassins Creed—stealth kills give me life. If they are incorporated well it feels amazing

Stranger Things · Jun 23, 2018

i enjoy stealth games for the most part.

even games like Uncharted with are good mix of run/gun and stealth are just really fun to me.

some games do force stealth on you in a level or two, but it's only annoying if the games mechanics don't fit the stealth. Like in COD games you can't really sneak around or take down unaware enemies so stealth is just pointless.

ResidentEvil2_REmake · Jun 23, 2018

Enemy reactions tend to be so dull, like the new Tomb Raider E3 trailor. When enemies discover their Conrad's have been taken out, they only react be saying 'there's a body and to start searching', there's not emotion or genuine human reaction.

Snake Eater · Jun 23, 2018

There is something so inherently satisfying with a stealth kill as opposed to any head-to-head collision

Van Bur3n · Jun 23, 2018

I'm someone who enjoys stealthy play styles immensely and sometimes I feel this way. And yet, every time a game offers a stealthy approach, I levitate toward it naturally. I just can't help myself.

Karateka · Jun 23, 2018

stealth is dead and yet in everything at the same time

Father Kratos · Jun 23, 2018

Cordelia Blimey said:
To make a great stealth game, there's got to be variety in options for gameplay. Think about how many options - some completely wild - that Deus Ex or Metal Gear Solid 3 give you. Those games are replayable as hell.

For most modern AAA stealth systems there's basically 3 options - throwable distraction noise, stealth Melee kills, and headshots. From The Last of Us to Horizon. It feels uninspired and boring.

Yup. I have not put Batman games here as personally I liked the stealth take downs there. Feels so natural and necessary and is so much fun.

SunhiLegend said:
I put well over 100 hours into Horizon and quite a lot into Uncharted 4 and I barely used stealth at all, Uncharted I basically played it like an action movie, same goes for Horizon really and had a blast, don't need to use stealth if you don't want to. You're not forced to unless you play on higher difficulties, in that case just turn the difficulty down.

They call you a legend for a reason :)

signal said:
Such a small amount of titles mentioned compared to the overall amount of releases. Why is this more tiring than "guns blazing" style gameplay, where way more than 4 titles could be listed.

I am not creating some list man..have given few names just to help explain my point. Have given examples of great games that dont use this mechanic too.

SugarDave said:
Stealth games are among my favourites, but I feel the ubiquitous implementation of it since around the time Last of Us originally released has been a crutch for a lot of games.

I'm tired of hiding in waist high underbrush, whistling or throwing a bottle to draw attention then tapping a single button to perform a takedown. That it's offered as an option in many games that are designed to also be competent shooters ends up often creating an identity crisis where the game is simply mediocre across the board and nothing stands out as truly excellent design.

I'm not saying a balance can't be struck, but I see a lot of games resort to this kind of design seemingly just because it's proven to work and feel the genre needs an adrenaline shot.

This exactly!! You have put it in a much better way.

Airing of Grievances · Jun 23, 2018

I always figured stealth games were made this way in order to make them easier and more approachable. The closest thing I've seen to a realistic stealth game was probably MGSV's extreme missions without the sneaking suit or high tech gear AND during broad daylight. You'll be spotted quite easily and have to tip toe around enemies to not alert them. Even then, the AI's vision is somewhat limited over longer distances to make the game playable.

If they ever made a really hardcore stealth game, only masochists would play it.

texhnolyze · Jun 23, 2018

What I hate the most about stealth mechanics in games.

As you others have said already here, they're painfully identical.

Deleted member 41931 · Jun 23, 2018

I'm fine with games that actually develop and put effort into like MGSV, but yeah, I'm definitely running out of patience for games that just use it as cheap gameplay variety.

Robin · Jun 23, 2018

Stealth is great, and Horizon is great, but I agree that Horizon felt a bit too "by the numbers" in it's execution on too many beats like that. In particular little things like chasing after scents and hiding in predetermined grass patches, etc, just felt boring. Same thing with the climbing mechanics, they were so poorly executed I was left wondering why they included them at all. The only thing about combat that really set Horizon apart to me was the gadgets, at least those had a certain amount of uniqueness that set it apart.

Aurc · Jun 23, 2018

Playing through Horizon at the moment. Really like the game, but it gets funny when you think about it.

I'm just a tribal girl with no advanced gear or anything, yet I can just hide in the grass and outsmart these sophisticated machines and their high-tech sensors. My "Focus", a tiny device I found on a corpse when I was 6 years old, is a way better piece of tech that can pinpoint the location of any of these machines, no matter what.

Jadow · Jun 23, 2018

If a game is gonna have stealth it better be implemented in a way it complements the gameplay, not just some after thought to "please" stealth fans (like me). Every Spiderman game lately seems to have this, yet Ive never considered Spidey to be one to stealth punch some goons, infiltrate? Sure, but go all Batman on people? Nah fam leave that shit to Rocksteady

AzureFlame · Jun 23, 2018

I agree, it became very boring.

TransEuropaExpress · Jun 23, 2018

One of the coolest stealth moves in recent memory was the bottle to the face, duck and stealth kill The Evil Within had. Then somehow the sequel was so ultra-checklist that they axed the few unique elements the first one did have to offer.

And I agree. I love Stealth games but shoe-horning in the same type of simple stealth plus grass plus waist-high shit into random games is getting tedious.

Strangelove_77 · Jun 23, 2018

As long as it's optional I don't mind it.

Igniz12 · Jun 23, 2018

Heid said:
AAA stealth mechanics kind of came to a jarring halt

Watch NPC, NPC does patrol, sneak up or hide until they walk by, takedown. Its so stale that DXHRs NPCs turning around while walking in one direction felt like a notable addition.

Another stealth trope? Traq a baddy. Baddy falls asleep. Baddy friend walks up to check up on sleepy baddy. Traq the baddy. Rinse and repeat until you have a pile of bodies.

I want to see NPCs drop smoke to revive their team mates. If I start shooting through that, then they start uses flash nades. I want biometrics so whenever you take down an NPC, HQ sees their heart rate stopped and notifies everyone of their position. I want the level to lock down and never open up again because "oh that guy who killed half our security just disappeared for 60 seconds. Guess he stopped existing. Everyone go home."

All this would probably be terrible for an action game wheres its about being actual fun but just gimme Deus Ex style game with deep stealth mechanics pls

I've hear snippets that MGSV does a lot of interesting things but I've avoided 'gameplay spoilers' for now (backlog life)

All of this. Basically the mechanics have not evolved past a certain point and now every game that uses it feels too samey and boring. Idk how it fix it so that it can feel meaningful again, even games that have stealth as the core gameplay feels so tired and boring as well. MGSV does everything you just listed and falls for the same design tropes as other games but in its defense I think the arcadey, open ended gameplay allows for the player to tackle mission in their own way so coming with a plan an executing it perfectly feels great.

If you want a different take on the genre then I suggest you try Invisible Inc. It is a tactics stealth game that does pretty much everything you wanted. Guards have heart rate monitors, levels become progressively harder the more you dally or if people start becoming aware of your actions. Its not perfect but I think it is a game that is designed around knowing the player is gonna stealth their way through the game and giving the AI the appropriate counters vs a game that fills a level with hobos with shotguns and wonders why the hero managed to get past 20 people without being noticed.

Deleted member 8860 · Jun 23, 2018

I've hated stealth mechanics since the PS1 (OG MG was fine because the camera was top-down and zoomed out sufficiently).

Oddly, I find stealth gameplay most acceptable in Assassin's Creed games (although I lament the loss of social stealth in Origins). It's easy to run past/around guards in the open world, and in closer quarters you usually have a lot of tools (including fast kill weaponry) at your disposal, as well as verticality and alternate routes. And even if you're detected, you can fight off a few guards and run/climb away pretty easily.

Knight613 · Jun 23, 2018

I'm usually fine with it as long as it's an option and not a requirement.

The Unsent · Jun 23, 2018

I love it, I appreciate the quietness of Uncharted 4's beautiful scenery like Madagascar when you solve a potential situation by lurking through the grass, or climbing towers, neck snapping enemies along the way.

Jerykk · Jun 23, 2018

I like stealthy gameplay so it doesn't bother me at all. None of the games you listed have mandatory stealth. It's simply advantageous (or outright overpowered) in certain situations. If you want to shoot people, there's nothing stopping you.

It's true that AAA stealth mechanics have stagnated a bit. That's largely because developers don't want it to be too complex or difficult for their primarily casual target audience. Thankfully, we still have games like HITMAN that are willing to dive deep and really flesh out their stealth gameplay. There also smaller games like Invisible Inc, Shadow Tactics, ECHO and SpyParty that do interesting things with the genre.

werezompire · Jun 23, 2018

For the longest time, I thought I hated stealth games and then I played Siren. Now, I just dislike stealth if it's not attached to a horror game.

Rickenslacker · Jun 23, 2018

My only dislike for stealth in games is when it's a game of binary states, especially in terms of takedowns. I'm not a fan of just standing behind a guy to initiate a canned contextual animation for taking them out. I want it to feel more like Thief, Deus Ex, or Metal Gear where they actually feel like mechanics I'm properly interacting with and influencing instead of a win button.

Burned out of stealth kills....

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