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Bryan Cranston shares his thoughts regarding societal forgiveness of sexual abusers [title edit]
- Thread starter Khanimus
- Start date
yup.
he's a full-on milkshake duck now.
it's not an unreasonable suspicion.
considering the way human projection works, his stance is potentially indicative of wrong-doings himself, which he would hope humanity would have the capacity to forgive him for as well.
really not that crazy / hard to comprehend my breh.
its a pretty easy response to give. But, that function didn't run in his mind. I think that speaks towards a world perspective.
No.
I have issue with the answer and timing of it but there's nothing in it to read him as trying to cover any personal misdeeds.
I'll let the population(s) they targeted decide if they want to give them a second chance - particularly give them a second chance in having a position of power over them. This works on the individual level, but collectively, honestly, I don't know.
I think the issue is if you want to talk about forgiveness and what not, you have to comment on what that entails, and if that means allowing them to return to their previous work positions... because absent that it's not really saying all that much... and I think it's far too early to be focusing on how the abusers being exposed can save themselves.
Once they do all those things maybe we can talk. Right now it just reeks of taking it easy on them, particularly since both are still denying stuff.
1. That's not what Milkshake Duck refers to.
2. So because Cranston speaks about rehabilitation he's hiding a guilty secret? Of course it's a potential possibility, but unless there's something to back it up it's not what we should default to just because a person is speaking about rehabilitation
If you watch the full interview his comments are far less inflammatory. They're also not specifically aimed at Weinstein & Spacey (horrifically extreme examples) but rather sexual offenders as whole, the whole gamut. Hence his 'case by case' approach.
We've literally got to the point where someone suggesting something outside of instant, feverish and perpetual condemnation means they're immediately forever blacklisted along with their work and accused of being a closet rapist/paedophile. That kind of approach will make any kind of meaningful or reflective discussion of these issues impossible.
We've literally got to the point where someone suggesting something outside of instant, feverish and perpetual condemnation means they're immediately forever blacklisted along with their work and accused of being a closet rapist/paedophile. That kind of approach will make any kind of meaningful or reflective discussion of these issues impossible.
Cranston should just shut the fuck up lol. I mean the "idea" of forgiveness is good but in this climate when were just now finally giving due to accusations of abuse it's not time yet to forgive these assholes. Maybe in ten years revisit it Walt :/
He was asked a specific question... he gave a reasonable answer.
Not click-baity enough. Needs more pizzazz if you want to engender enough misplaced anger.
Having seen the full interview I see no problem at all with Cranstons response, actually I respect the guy even more as I think it was a very thoughtful and levelheaded view. OP title is way misleading and not at all what Cranston was trying to communicate.
Cranston can eat one after the "fuck you" for not cheering for Trump, not really his place to forgive Hollywood sexual harassment perps
I bet he'll be really depressed when he reads your hot take. Maybe watch the video.
I feel like that would take too much time. I trust the OPs assement wholly.
Perhaps I should have read he quote lol. I'm at work and hurried the response. In fact his quote seems far more nuanced than his trump quote so I'll give him credit. I still think my point stands, that now is not the time for forgiveness, but it seems he also thinks that's something for far down the road
Going by the laws we live by and what the prison system is meant for these people are redeemable but first they have to be tried and convicted and serve sentence and be rebiliated. These people aren't going to be so some form of justice is still needed imo and in my eyes being cast out completely forever from industry they used to abuse people is acceptable in my book.
Yeah. I think this is an unreasonable leap.
People can have views without being accused of sexual abuse.
I'm more annoyed by the idea that people seriously think there's a culture of people sitting around waiting to be mad. It's incredibly dismissive of people's concerns.
If the allegations of rape are false? Absolutely.
But those who engage in extreme, sadistic abuse should be imprisoned. Let them find redemption away from the rest of us.
But those who engage in extreme, sadistic abuse should be imprisoned. Let them find redemption away from the rest of us.
Cranston is being painted a villain here by most of you when he's literally citing how the justice system is supposed to work? He was asked a direct question and answered it. The people he's talking about are scumbags no doubt, but surely there's a chance that some of them could actually be rehabilitated one day? If they actually face the correct punishment for their crimes. Like he said, it's a long road and most of them probably won't change, but if we don't believe it's possible for ANY of them to be rehabilitated then that's a pretty damn cynical viewpoint to have.
And the accusation that he must have a guilty conscience for sharing this view is offensively stupid. So if I say a murderer can one day be rehabilitated it means I probably murdered someone?
And the accusation that he must have a guilty conscience for sharing this view is offensively stupid. So if I say a murderer can one day be rehabilitated it means I probably murdered someone?
Oh, Commedieu is here! Awesome!
On topic: he was prepared to give a somewhat noncommittal response, a gray area if you will. Though, I agree that we all will individually make up our minds about these people one way or another.
Having now seen the video and not just read the article it's not as bad as the article appears. I still don't think there should be any path back to prominence for someone like Spacey or Weinstein, though, and it's the victim's forgiveness that really matters, not societies.
Again I want to reiterate he is talking about a spectrum of offenders here and as a result a case-by-case approach to considering rehabilitation. He literally gives an example of a person reflecting on whether they should have called someone 'sweetie'. He is not exclusively talking about rapists.
Boy, that thread title change sure isn't leading, no sir. No way is it slanted to make people who take issue with Cranston for this look unreasonable, not at all.
/s
/s
Forgiveness can take many forms so sure, whatever, case by case and all that.
But people like Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey can and should be rehabilitated outside of the function that allowed them to commit these crimes in the first place. You don't give a mass shooter a gun after he's said he's sorry.
But people like Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey can and should be rehabilitated outside of the function that allowed them to commit these crimes in the first place. You don't give a mass shooter a gun after he's said he's sorry.
okay so what people still aren't getting is he was specifically asked about two people but he answered in a general way. the problem with that is hollywood has a sordid history of protecting its own and whether he meant it or not (and I assume he didn't) the two positions are incompatible. People can take his statement at face value and it's fine but when you apply it to the people he was asked about his position becomes completely unacceptable. That's the problem, you have to see it through the lens of history for people like Weinstein and Spacey in hollywood who get nothing but second chances and people have rightly said enough is enough. His answer should've been "no". "No, there isn't a way back for these men in this industry". Take a goddamn stand when it counts.
He is right in that they all probably will be forgiven and accepted back into polite society. Maybe not Weinstein but Louis CK and Kevin Spacey are beloved and talented and once the furor dies down people will be looking for an excuse to welcome them back. Hollywood loves a good comeback. I mean if Mel Gibson can come back, these guys surely will at some point.
I could be misremembering but I think initially there was only the article in the OP which did paint Cranston in a bad light. Later the video was added which cleared up that the article was leaving things out and changed the context of what Cranston was trying to say.
I think the thread title change was warranted, and I'm one of those initial "Shut the fuck up, Cranston" people. Although as I wrote higher up I don't totally agree with him re seeking the forgiveness of the victims vs. society.
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Yup
Honestly Cranston's statement is redundant considering how society in general and Hollywood in particular has already shown how willing they are to forgive these kinds of people
Hmmmm, no. Even that nuanced read is kinda bunk.
You deserve to lose your career if you do that shit. There is no rule that says a supposedly rehabilitated person deserves to get their amazing careers back.
He assumes anyone would ever actually know if a person is rehabilitated, and not just being deceptive. Which is ridiculous. These are very manipulative people, who only apologised once forced to. And even then, every single one of these apologies tried to justify their actions to a degree.
It's fine that Spacey and CKs career is over. Even if you believe the bullshit that they could be rehabilitated, well so what? Why does that entitle them back into the public eye? There's plenty of talented individuals who don't sexually assault women.
I can't help but feel if the perpetrators weren't exclusively affluent white people, we wouldn't have this blase attitude.
You deserve to lose your career if you do that shit. There is no rule that says a supposedly rehabilitated person deserves to get their amazing careers back.
He assumes anyone would ever actually know if a person is rehabilitated, and not just being deceptive. Which is ridiculous. These are very manipulative people, who only apologised once forced to. And even then, every single one of these apologies tried to justify their actions to a degree.
It's fine that Spacey and CKs career is over. Even if you believe the bullshit that they could be rehabilitated, well so what? Why does that entitle them back into the public eye? There's plenty of talented individuals who don't sexually assault women.
I can't help but feel if the perpetrators weren't exclusively affluent white people, we wouldn't have this blase attitude.
I have had one or two male friends on my Facebook list come forward since the Weinstein story broke, and following the flood of other industry stories, to say that they regretted the way they had behaved with women in their own past. They weren't talking about anything near as serious as the things Weinstein or Spacey were accused of, but they had read these stories, read the accounts of the women and men involved and realised that some of the things that they themselves had done had been unacceptable and they felt compelled to talk about it and take responsibility for it. I can't speak for them, but I think that the prospect of some kind of forgiveness - or even just the opportunity to publicly admit to these things - played at least some part in their decision to be honest.
It is vital that victims are given the platform to have their voices heard and they should be the main focus of the public conversation, but having some voices saying that there is at least a chance that some of the people who have been accused could redeem themselves or eventually be forgiven is important too, I think - we want to encourage people to reflect on their own assumptions and behaviours and to be honest and open about what they've done wrong if we want to change the culture that let people like Weinstein and Spacey thrive for so long, and if the public conversation is all pitchforks and no-quarter then there is little incentive for the many more who have low-level toxic attitudes or shitty behaviours to come forward.
To be absolutely clear: I think men like Spacey and Weinstein have shown themselves to be predatory, abusive and criminal and I personally can't imagine either of them doing enough to redeem themselves, but I'm not going to condemn someone who can imagine that, and I hope that having at least some voices saying that there might be the prospect of redemption and forgiveness for shits like them might encourage the people I do consider having the ability to redeem themselves to come forward, rather than hide away.