But why move to an alternative that makes things worse...?
Should you rather not research a way to make things better and then implement that?
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Brexit has already cost the U.K. more than its EU budget payments, study shows
- Thread starter xbhaskarx
- Start date
Should you rather not research a way to make things better and then implement that?
I'm not trying to have a pissing contest, you were talking as if I'm incapable of thinking independently on this.
Our growth is down and the government has rejected the single market. We know that prices are going to go up and lives are going to get harder in the short term, supposedly for up to 60 years if we go by what's reported.
Given that there was never any plan in place and our negotiating position is starting off as badly as it could possibly be, there's little positives that an be seen yet aside from ideological. And the issue isn't that the EU is so great (never said it was, nor is anyone under that impression), but that being a part of it is necesary to avoid plunging into extreme recessions as well as keep our current human rights laws (as well as the many other EU enforced regulations that benefit us).
Now you're arguing, in rather vague terms for someone whose worked in economic related areas for over 20 years, that it's worth it all because in the long run we're abandoning some unspecified neo-liberal dogma. No one here buys that because there's no reason to and you're not providing any reason to other than buzzword filed ranting about some vague neo-liberal concept that's meaningless on a practical level.
That's unfair, Neville Chamberlain actually prepared for the incoming disaster by launching rearmament campaigns.
Maybe things will be better in the long term? Again, the unwillingness to look beyond the next five years or so, cripples us. I believe we will be better out of the EU in 5-10 years time. Societally for sure. I'm hoping the UK will break up as a result.
I think the current status quo benefits the rich and not the poor. As I said at the top of the thread, we must start thinking in our value as humans in non economic terms.
Whether no one here buys it is moot. This is an entirely unrepresentative sample of the population and I'm fully aware my views are in the minority.
What evidence or reasoning do you have for this 5-10 year window for things to get better?
And how does the UK breaking up help?
Okay let me put this in the nicest way possible. There is nothing, absolutely nothing good that has come out or will come out of Brexit for the Britain's Pharmaceutical industry.
I didn't realize the EU ran the UK. I thought it had like, it's own government and elections and stuff. That maybe outside of Blair, UK governance has largely been dominated by Tories who actively promote the kind of policies you're objecting to. But I guess they're all cuddly socialists, hamstrung by evil Brussels bureaucrats.
So UK is out of the EU. Which neoliberal EU regulations and laws aren't applying to the UK anymore which made life for the poor so bad?
On what evidence are you basing this assumption? How will society be better? Can you provide some examples?
As an Irishman I was happy the EU as you say railroaded the national government. The government caused the problem and the EU fixed it. Yes it was painful but everything turned out well because we followed the guidance of the EU. Look at the Greek economy, they resisted and they continue to suffer while Ireland seen 7.3% growth last year.
Do Irish people care we were railroaded? A 90% approval rating says no.
He is Brexit-Heuelen. Dude has been posting straight shite since the sunken place.
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I don't think I've seen someone so enamored with a word since I watched 10 minutes of Jordan Peterson and almost died laughing at the amount of times he brought up 'cultural marxism'.
He has zero. He is trying to claim Leftxit reasoning, which is batshit insane since he is actively in support of far-right populism. He has actively voted to harm the very people he cares about in a very real and tangible way for decades and leave the country open to the very worst of far right politics because people always forget when things get bad it isn't normally the left that is going to profit from it, especially when the hardest hit parts of the UK will be those Labour areas in the North. They will all go full fascist. It's happening *today* and this guy is still trying to justify his insane "intellectual" reasoning for it. He is a moron.
This post is perfect because people's imagination is the only place where the policies of the right do anything to improve people's lives
Brexiteers don't care.
Driving into a burning house - these idiots don't even want a foot, let alone a brake to press with it.
Driving into a burning house - these idiots don't even want a foot, let alone a brake to press with it.
Well.
We voted to leave and made everything more expensive to buy in the shops due to shaving 20% off the value of our currency.
And that's just the economic effect of voting to leave. We haven't even left yet.
I'm sure the poor are rejoicing about that and the rich are really feeling the effects, right?
I'm sure all the rural towns that voted to leave that got EU subsidies through farming initiatives will be happy as fuck about the decreased investment in their already "forgotten" areas.
I'm sure what won't happen, is that when shit hits the fan, all the people with the power will hoard it all for themselves and successfully use British media to fight against anyone who disagrees as using "politics of envy" and other such bollocks slogans to convince the british people to fight against their own:
- hospitals
- fire fighters
- police
- teachers
- economic interests and international influence
No, that could NEVER happen.
The British people are far too smart for that.
Makes it easier for Daddy Putin to swoop in and peck at the remains.
None of this will mean anything to hardcore leavers. They are too far gone.
Brexshit continues to deliver.
Brexshit continues to deliver.
Can I just point out that it's been 2 years since the referendum and not a single Brexiteer has actually been able to explain why it's a good idea.
Always vague concepts - freedom, sovereignty, taking back control - but never any actual plans or an explanation of why we're better off or how we'll reach a point of better off.
We're just told to USE OUR IMAGINATIONS and STOP TALKING THE COUNTRY DOWN, but in 2 years no one, either on the right or left, has been able to tell me why everyone is better off outside the EU.
Always vague concepts - freedom, sovereignty, taking back control - but never any actual plans or an explanation of why we're better off or how we'll reach a point of better off.
We're just told to USE OUR IMAGINATIONS and STOP TALKING THE COUNTRY DOWN, but in 2 years no one, either on the right or left, has been able to tell me why everyone is better off outside the EU.
I'm at the point where I have zero patience left for Brexiters so I'm gonna go ahead and say the only reasons one could have to vote Leave are racism/xenophobia, ignorance, and straight up stupidity.
These are the only reasons unless you are part of the wealthier elite who are fetishizing about a deregulated no holds barred tax haven. There are no other reasons.
Brexit is a betrayal of this country.
Now c'mon guys you're being too hard on the guy.
Sure he thinks it's fine to economically fuck over a generation and strip away their rights, but if we all just use our imagination things could be better in ten years time!
I'm already imagining being in my new mansion on my own private island! Ahh, life is good!
Sure he thinks it's fine to economically fuck over a generation and strip away their rights, but if we all just use our imagination things could be better in ten years time!
I'm already imagining being in my new mansion on my own private island! Ahh, life is good!
Question. What is likely to happen then with mortgage rates when everything goes to shit in the near future?
If you're going to post here you need to address the content of people's arguments.
Obvious troll is obvious.
They vast majority of the vote was pure xenophobia and racism, brexiteers can waffle all they want about sovereignty and all that other BS till the cows come home, but the key issue was 'people coming over here and taking our jobs / benefits'
The Bank of England has been, on the down low this week, given the right to another 500bn of discretionary spending without Treasury approval to support the commercial banking system in order to deal with the shit show that is about to unfold. The Bank of England is the only reason we are not in a much worse position right now.
And maybe santa claus and the Easter bunny are real and they will see the state poor UKs economy is in and will magic all manner of gifts and chocolate for the citizens of the UK, restoring our way of life.
Because that's more likely than the UK being in a better place than it would have otherwise been in 5-10 years down the road had we remained in the EU.
You know the funny thing? We always had control of immigration.They vast majority of the vote was pure xenophobia and racism, brexiteers can waffle all they want about sovereignty and all that other BS till the cows come home, but the key issue was 'people coming over here and taking our jobs / benefits'
We get over 50% of immigration coming in from non-EU countries, complete control, leaving the EU won't "fix" that.
The EU also has a rule where failure to find work after 3 years means people can be returned to their country of origin, but it was never implimented by any government.
Immigration is controlled by each country, not the EU, but the EU makes a good scapegoat for ineffective governments.
They voted to get the brown people out. The brown people from the EU, whose member countries are 90% white.
Exactly if Brexit is going to be such a shit show as you basically admit all that will happen is that the U.K. will be back in Europe and it's 'neo liberal status quo' trappings within a decade. Nothing will have been gained and the country will have been severely damaged.
While I have heard very racist statements in person ("I'm voting Brexit because there are too many Indians"), there has also been a lot of discrimination targeted at individuals from Eastern European countries such as Poland as well.
Brexit xenophobia is driven a lot by British exceptionalism, where all 'foreigners' are treated with disdain.
The article you linked to talked about crushing loneliness being a big trigger for this mental health crisis that's suddenly exploded out of nowhere - let's ignore the fact that mental health problems used to be dirty little secrets that got swept under the carpet, or just not talked about, so any "explosion" of cases nowadays could simply be signs of us as a society getting better at recognising these issues and trying to work on them - so your best solution is to isolate us as a country from a host of other countries and cultures?
Break up the status quo? Anarchy would do that. Voting the Monster Raving Loony Party into power would do that. Being different to what's come before doesn't automatically make it a good idea. Thus far, it's proving to be a horrible idea already. You can try to handwave financial considerations all you like, but money is a HUGE factor in quality of life. With so many on the poverty line already in the UK, it's only been made worse. Quality of life isn't going to improve for most. Catering to the xenophobic crowd who blame Johnny Foreigner for all of the country's ills isn't conducive to anything good...it creates yet more division, drives more wedges. So many videos of average looking white Brits suddenly turning into abusive pieces of trash telling people to get back to their own countries, on buses, on trains, on the street. THAT'S mentally healthy to you? How is that going to fix the issues with our country?
There have been moral panics in the past - mods vs rockers to blame the youth, single mothers were classed as this crippling burden on society, EU citizens being allowed to work in any other EU member country was going to lead to tidal waves of immigrants flooding the country and taking our JERBS! - but this latest panic of blaming the EU for our country's problems is one that's causing lasting, tangible, country-wide damage to us. It's all deflection from our own governments failings and obvious hatred of the poor. They get to dismantle the NHS stealthily, but middle England is happy to stick it to Johnny Foreigner. They get to treat those on benefits - the most vulnerable in society - as pariahs, or as criminals. Yeah, quality of life is sure going to be great when the healthcare system so many countries have envied is gone and people can start going bankrupt for the crime of getting sick. Quality of life has surely increased in this period of Austerity, all these vicious cuts, being told we all have to tighten our belts for the greater good, and it's done fuck all to make a dent in our national debt.
Quality of life is indeed a great measure....it's spiralling downwards, and spiralled further for many after this Brexit bullshit. All because a bunch of racists and xenophobes have a wet dream about "controlling our borders again!", as if we didn't before. I'm sickened by what our country is becoming, I thought we were better than this small-minded, isolationist, cowardly mentality. Brexit proved otherwise.
The latest nonsense.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s-back-at-airbus-over-brexit-warnings-on-jobs
Fucking insane. So nobody can criticise how terrible this all is cos "negotiating!". Also mildly fascist perhaps.
Be under no illusion, a hard brexit means our NHS will be like America's healthcare system within a decade under the fucking 'Tories Unleashed'. That's all Brexit is.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...s-back-at-airbus-over-brexit-warnings-on-jobs
Fucking insane. So nobody can criticise how terrible this all is cos "negotiating!". Also mildly fascist perhaps.
Be under no illusion, a hard brexit means our NHS will be like America's healthcare system within a decade under the fucking 'Tories Unleashed'. That's all Brexit is.
Why would a company get behind something which is going to, fundamentally, damage them? Does he listen to the drivel he spouts?
Ugh. What a cunt.
Who ever described Brexit as Englands Moby Dick was incredibly on point.
Ugh. What a cunt.
Who ever described Brexit as Englands Moby Dick was incredibly on point.
I'm sorry for the people of the UK but at this point atleast some part of me hope the UK crashes out without the hardest brexit it has just to give these idiots in politics a reality check.
I still think the british goverment will start to panic and take any deal the EU offers shorty before Brexit happens.
So you couldn't defend a single one of your points and now you're bailing.
You are counting on the people who voted for Brexit to not vote Tory for the foreseeable future. A Tory government that can implement whatever they want and now no longer has the EU to reign them in. Good luck with that.
I'm about as left as they come, but thinking that Brexit will make things better is just wishful thinking. But who knows, maybe wishes do come true.
You put your left leg in, your left leg out.
In.Out.in.Out.
You shake it all about.
You do the hokey cokey and you turn around.
Thats what its all about.
:-)
In.Out.in.Out.
You shake it all about.
You do the hokey cokey and you turn around.
Thats what its all about.
:-)
I don't think it will be as bad as everyone makes out (I don't have a crystal ball though) so this is my 'hunch' so no I can not link to a 100 articles stating it will be ok.
Things have hardly been rosy since 2008 have they!
There will be a lot of threats made and some businesses will move and some (and we know this happens) will use Brexit as an excuse to do lay offs etc
Wage growth in real terms has been very poor, and actually several areas that rely on immigration will end up paying more as they search for staff...
TLDR there will be pain, just not as severe as people think imo
Things have hardly been rosy since 2008 have they!
There will be a lot of threats made and some businesses will move and some (and we know this happens) will use Brexit as an excuse to do lay offs etc
Wage growth in real terms has been very poor, and actually several areas that rely on immigration will end up paying more as they search for staff...
TLDR there will be pain, just not as severe as people think imo
Yep, a leftist uprising through a brief period of fascism, that's what will make Brexit worth it!
Ugh.
Ugh.
One positive out of all of this
At least the proposed farming subsidies make sense over the current EU farming subsidies
....
I'm out of positives
At least the proposed farming subsidies make sense over the current EU farming subsidies
....
I'm out of positives