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Horse Armour

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
89
https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-s...on-gains-as-gang-violence-rises-idUKKBN1JM0QC

Crazy to see what's happening in probably the most progressive country in the world.

Sweden has one of the highest levels of lethal gun violence in Europe, World Health Organisation data showed. But while the number of foreign-born citizens has risen for decades, murder rates are roughly flat.

The government denies it has lost control but Prime Minister Stefan Lofven has not ruled out sending the military into problem areas.

Moving to the right, he has tried to deal with the threat posed by the Sweden Democrats by saying immigration - down to 26,000 in 2017 - should halve from last year's level.

The government has also proposed tougher punishments for gun crimes and sexual assaults, wants to stop financial support for undocumented foreigners, put more of those whose identity is unclear in holding centres and accelerate repatriation of failed asylum seekers.

The Moderates have also toughened their stance on crime and immigration, promising a crackdown on welfare for asylum seekers and a ban on begging. Both main parties say Sweden will not return to liberal asylum rules suspended in 2015.




Dozens of people have been killed in the past two years in attacks in the capital Stockholm and other big cities by gangs that are mostly from run-down suburbs dominated by immigrants.

In the latest bloodshed, three men were shot dead and three were wounded outside an internet cafe in the city of Malmo on June 18. A fourth man was shot dead days later and another man survived because he was wearing a bullet-proof vest.

With public calls growing for tougher policies on crime and immigration, support has risen for the Sweden Democrats, a party with neo-Nazi roots that wants to freeze immigration and to hold a referendum on Sweden's membership of the European Union.

Their worried mainstream rivals have started moving to the right on crime and immigration to try to counter the Sweden Democrats' threat in the Sept. 9 election. But so far, they are playing into the hands of the far-right.

BACKLASH
Five years ago, Sweden saw itself as a "humanitarian superpower" that generously welcomed migrants, many of them fleeing conflict in the Middle East and Africa.

But as in Germany, where Chancellor Angela Merkel's government has been cracking under pressure from her coalition partners to tighten immigration curbs, Sweden's government now faces a backlash over the scale of immigration.

About 400,000 people have sought asylum in the wealthy Scandinavian country of 10 million since 2012, and it took in 163,000 asylum seekers in 2015 alone. Some voters fear schools, hospitals and welfare services cannot cope, and Sweden's reputation for tolerance and social equality is threatened.

The Sweden Democrats still trail the Social Democratic Party but has overtaken the main opposition Moderates in many polls. All mainstream parties have ruled out working with them.

But they could emerge from the election as kingmakers, and a strong election showing could force the next government to take their views into consideration when shaping policy.

Their policies include a total freeze on asylum seekers and accepting refugees only from Sweden's neighbours in the future. They also want tougher penalties for crime and more powers for police, and say tax cuts and higher spending on welfare could be funded by cutting the immigration budget.

RUTHLESS CRIMINAL UNDERCLASS
There were 129 shootings in Stockholm in 2017. Nineteen people were killed in the attacks, almost twice as many as in 2016, according to official figures.

In Malmo, where about 45 percent of the 330,000 inhabitants have an immigrant background, police say three or four gangs are operating. Swedish media say nine people have been shot dead in the city this year after 21 in the previous two year-period.

A 2017 police report into Sweden's most deprived areas pointed to a heavily armed and ruthless criminal underclass.

All the areas identified by police are socially deprived suburbs with large immigrant populations, places where poverty and long-term youth unemployment are big problems.

Among these is the Stockholm suburb of Rinkeby, where two men walked into a pizzeria packed with families in January and shot a man dead in what police said was a gang killing.

When it was built in the 1970s, Rinkeby was a symbol of modernity, part of what became known as Sweden's Million Homes project to replace run-down inner-city slums with clean, well-planned suburbs with their own schools, shops and healthcare facilities.

With ninety-one percent of its 16,000 inhabitants born abroad or to parents born outside Sweden, only half of them working, the area is now synonymous with failed integration, unemployment and social exclusion.

Police say people in Rinkeby live in fear of a group known as the Death Patrol gang.
 

Blue Ninja

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,756
Belgium
Yeah, think I'll make sure to stick to the touristy bits of Malmö when I cross the bridge this summer. Shame to hear it's gotten so bad.

I can't even fathom how you can fix something like this. Neither does the right: they'll want to stop them from coming in and do their best at kicking the rest back out. Make problems somewhere else.
 

PaddingtonDidntDoIt

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 8, 2018
698
Gang violence from immigrants?
Or right wing?

Also, immigrant swedes often tell me they feel excluded from jobs and proper education is there truth to this? If so, pretty much fuels resentment. People thinking they are being treated as others whilst at the same time expected to integrate.
 

CoolOff

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
3,437
I mean, the other parties didn't move to the right for many years and SD still went up, and the trend has continued. Given that far-right parties have risen all across the Western world, I'd suggest that SD would be around where they are now regardless of where the other parties positioned themselves.

That's actually a great argument for not trying to placate those voters.

Gang violence from immigrants?
Or right wing?

Also, immigrant swedes often tell me they feel excluded from jobs and proper education is there truth to this? If so, pretty much fuels resentment. People thinking they are being treated as others whilst at the same time expected to integrate.

Mostly immigrant-heavy suburbs. Far-right violence has sparked a bit in recent years as well, but rarely (if ever?) in the form of shootings.

As for the second part, I can't imagine it being worse than anywhere else in Europe. The situation in Sweden is just a result of European integration efforts and their failure, multiplied with a larger amount of immigrants arriving than in other countries.

Given the extraordinary circumstances around 2015 I'd say we've even done surprisingly well so far. Not sure about the long-term though.
 

astroturfing

Member
Nov 1, 2017
6,450
Suomi Finland
129 shootings in Stockholm?? what the fuck..

i remember in 2004 when i was in Stockholm i spent the entire night outside roaming the city with my friend (because we hadn't booked a room and everywhere was full lol), and it was so peaceful everywhere.. did not see one single drunk person even. felt 100% safe.
 

Deleted member 11113

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
139
Yeah, think I'll make sure to stick to the touristy bits of Malmö when I cross the bridge this summer. Shame to hear it's gotten so bad.
Unless you're in a gang you don't have anything to fear. I work in Malmö (looking to move there soon) and have felt safe walking all over the city. If you're visiting Malmö it'd be a shame if you missed places like Möllevången.
 

Midas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,535

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,467
Cmon Sweden

Do not follow the USA's footsteps here

Whats the deal with the Gang violence anyways? I didnt even know Sweden was struggling with that
 

Torres

Member
Oct 29, 2017
265
Here lies the weakness of the welfare state. You can't have billionaires coexisting with the poor because this is the result. The only way to fix this is to provide extensive funding for programs to help the adapt and integrate into Swedish society, as it stands now they're being dumped into ghettos. And the money does exist, but now there's a choice: do you side with the billionaires or the maladjusted downtrodden?
 

Ac30

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,527
London
Yeah, think I'll make sure to stick to the touristy bits of Malmö when I cross the bridge this summer. Shame to hear it's gotten so bad.

I can't even fathom how you can fix something like this. Neither does the right: they'll want to stop them from coming in and do their best at kicking the rest back out. Make problems somewhere else.

I'm rather sure that most of these aren't even recent arrivals, so there's nowhere to deport them to - they're probably 2/3 gen. kids.
 

BlackLagoon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,760
Here lies the weakness of the welfare state. You can't have billionaires coexisting with the poor because this is the result. The only way to fix this is to provide extensive funding for programs to help the adapt and integrate into Swedish society, as it stands now they're being dumped into ghettos. And the money does exist, but now there's a choice: do you side with the billionaires or the maladjusted downtrodden?
They're not being "dumped" into ghettos though, they've been creating these clusters of poverty and poor integration by choosing to live close to other immigrants with a similar background. If you look at Norway, where asylum seekers are assigned to a municipality based on available capacity of the integration program and required to live there for a certain number of years (to keep getting subsidies), stats are significantly better (though parts of Oslo are showing worrying trends.)
 

Fudgepuppy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,270
This makes me so sad. I'm not even living in Sweden at the moment, but I will vote and I refuse to let it fall into the hands of SD.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,293
So gang members are killing other gang members in impoverished areas. Pretty much no one who's not actively involved has been killed. Let's solve this by uh... refusing asylum seekers? What? Fucking idiots, all of them. Where is Olof Palme when you need him? The social democratic party can fuck right off. Hope there's a huge upsurge in Vänsterpartiet/FI/whatever is actually left-leaning nowadays but I'm honestly not too hopeful.

Whats the deal with the Gang violence anyways? I didnt even know Sweden was struggling with that

Most of these articles are insanely sensationalist and only serve as propaganda for Sverigedemokraterna (our resident nazi party). Credit where credit is due; they have completely taken control of social media and the fact that no one fact checks anything while only reading the headlines and leaving it at that.

To say that we are "struggling" with gang violence is ridiculous. I have never once in my life felt anything even resembling a threat and I grew up in one of the "no-go ghetto" zones all of these articles really love pointing to. Almost everyone I knew was involved in gang activity and this was back in the early 2000s. It was almost comically easy not to get involved personally if you didn't want to and unless you were actively looking for violence it was hard to come by. The worst thing I've personally witnessed in Sweden is two guys walking into a restaurant while I was eating, having a threatening conversation with a dude over some dispute and slapping him in the face once before walking away.

Now, I can't say things haven't changed - I don't personally live there any more (though many of my friends still do and I visit quite often) but aside from car burning being a fairly recent activity I honestly can't say I've heard of much of anything going on. A bigger problem is that not even my non-immigrant young friends can find a fucking job because business has been so deregulated no one is even bothered to hire actual workers any more. They're all on board as "consultants" and other types of contractors on a project-by-project basis (even after having worked 10+ years at the same place sometimes...) just so corporations can avoid paying certain taxes and being able to, in effect, fire whoever for any reason.

Should we stop the rise of gang on gang violence by enacting policies that give these people something better to do with their lives? Of course. Should we block immigration and enact totalitarian policies that have literally nothing to do with any of this? Uhhhhh????????????????????????????????
 
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Rosejamie95

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
457
User Banned (1 Week): Racism.
I think even if SD get into power it's to late for Sweden. I reckon the civil society is mostly comprised of people who believe a monocultural Sweden is racist and big changes ought to be made to undermine the Swedishness and demographic of the country.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
So is the Right just encroaching all over the world or something?
 

CoolOff

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
3,437
They're not being "dumped" into ghettos though, they've been creating these clusters of poverty and poor integration by choosing to live close to other immigrants with a similar background. If you look at Norway, where asylum seekers are assigned to a municipality based on available capacity of the integration program and required to live there for a certain number of years (to keep getting subsidies), stats are significantly better (though parts of Oslo are showing worrying trends.)

Yeah, the leniency in allowing immigrants to congregate in certain areas, and the unwillingness from more ethnically Swedish areas to allow for them to live elsewhere, really is one of the main problems. And it has been a problem for like 30-40 years, it's not something caused by the recent wave of asylum seekers.

So is the Right just encroaching all over the world or something?

The Western world, yes.
 

Torres

Member
Oct 29, 2017
265
They're not being "dumped" into ghettos though, they've been creating these clusters of poverty and poor integration by choosing to live close to other immigrants with a similar background. If you look at Norway, where asylum seekers are assigned to a municipality based on available capacity of the integration program and required to live there for a certain number of years (to keep getting subsidies), stats are significantly better (though parts of Oslo are showing worrying trends.)

Are you suggesting it's a logistical failure, not a funding one?
 

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
Umeå, Sweden
I had such high hopes for my country, and now people are making the exact same idiotic mistakes as done through history when some pressure is applied from a world crisis and are turning to the far right fuckers for "answers"...
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,748
Honestly considering getting out of the country if SD ends up taking over. This shitshow has gotten out of hand.
 

Sloth Guevara

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,331
Gang violence from immigrants?
Or right wing?

Also, immigrant swedes often tell me they feel excluded from jobs and proper education is there truth to this? If so, pretty much fuels resentment. People thinking they are being treated as others whilst at the same time expected to integrate.


It is sadly true that if you have a darker shade of skin and/or a foreign sounding (and Muslim in particular) both housing and work is harder to find.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,884
London
I can see Sweden closing off fully to asylum seekers soon and only way of living there is to somehow get a job. Sad to see that a country with such progressive politics and ironically, surveys show the most positive attitude to migrants in Europe, wanting to vote for Sweden Democrats. Part of the blame is mainstream politicians not reacting robustly against bad apples and letting people destroying their passports claim asylum, and some Turkish background politician meeting some extreme right nationalist Turkish group IIRC.

Seems like nowhere is safe from the far Right, unfortunately. Don't know what anyone can do to stop this other than give the far right everything they want which is just capitulation.
 

Duxxy3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,686
USA
We really are headed for another Nazi state at some point, aren't we? It just seems inevitable.
 

Fudgepuppy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,270
So gang members are killing other gang members in impoverished areas. Pretty much no one who's not actively involved has been killed. Let's solve this by uh... refusing asylum seekers? What? Fucking idiots, all of them. Where is Olof Palme when you need him? The social democratic party can fuck right off. Hope there's a huge upsurge in Vänsterpartiet/FI/whatever is actually left-leaning nowadays but I'm honestly not too hopeful.

I feel that I have to vote for Social Democrats to stop SD, even if I on a lot of policies align more with FI and V.
 

Sloth Guevara

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,331
They're not being "dumped" into ghettos though, they've been creating these clusters of poverty and poor integration by choosing to live close to other immigrants with a similar background. If you look at Norway, where asylum seekers are assigned to a municipality based on available capacity of the integration program and required to live there for a certain number of years (to keep getting subsidies), stats are significantly better (though parts of Oslo are showing worrying trends.)


Sweden tried making more municipalities take refugees burg the result is either a burned housing place or they (if they have the money) pay another municipality to take them.
 

Rosejamie95

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
457
Yeah, the leniency in allowing immigrants to congregate in certain areas, and the unwillingness from more ethnically Swedish areas to allow for them to live elsewhere, really is one of the main problems. And it has been a problem for like 30-40 years, it's not something caused by the recent wave of asylum seekers.



The Western world, yes.
Latin america
 

CoolOff

Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
3,437
Sweden tried making more municipalities take refugees burg the result is either a burned housing place or they (if they have the money) pay another municipality to take them.

It's not a recent thing. This is a policy issue that goes back decades.

The gang members are rarely, if ever, recent arrivals. They're second and third generation.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,884
London
I live in London and most people who stab and shoot people are citizens. Refusing asylum seekers ain't doing shit. The problem is poverty and shitty parenting. Sweden should really look at legalizing weed as well now to help take power away from gangsters. And lol, Latin American extreme right makes European ones look like nice people in comparison. Colombia just elected someone tied to Uribe who is himself a criminal.

Given Brexit, since I want to try and look for a job in Sweden at some point how much harder is this process likely to become? My current EU citizenship is protecting me from changes in the law because I generally have the right to enter and live in the country, but what about when these protections go away
 

Arebours

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,656
Here lies the weakness of the welfare state. You can't have billionaires coexisting with the poor because this is the result. The only way to fix this is to provide extensive funding for programs to help the adapt and integrate into Swedish society, as it stands now they're being dumped into ghettos. And the money does exist, but now there's a choice: do you side with the billionaires or the maladjusted downtrodden?
Money isn't all the is to it. There are other resources like availability of education and social services, living accommodations, good will and so on - that you can't just throw money on. Sweden has taken in far more people than we have the capacity to integrate, that's all there is to it. Btw I don't blame the immigrants in the slightest, can't be mad at people for wanting a better life for themselves.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,293
I feel that I have to vote for Social Democrats to stop SD, even if I on a lot of policies align more with FI and V.

I think a more effective strategy is to completely gut Socialdemokraterna and force them to shift back really far left and ally with the other left parties in order to block M and SD from continuing to do damage. All we have with S on the throne in terms of immigration issues right now is SD lite, to be honest. Granted, the current government has done a lot of improvements after the complete destruction "Alliansen" wrought on the middle class, so I'll give 'em that. Maybe I'm asking for too much at the wrong moment here, I don't know. Maybe people need to be asking with a much more aggressive stance? It's honestly hard to tell.

Money isn't all the is to it. There are other resources like availability of education and social services, living accommodations, good will and so on - that you can't just throw money on. Sweden has taken in far more people than we have the capacity to integrate, that's all there is to it. Btw I don't blame the immigrants in the slightest, can't be mad at people for wanting a better life for themselves.

Compared to what? Sweden has had waves of immigrants in humanitarian crises pretty much always. That's how the fuck I ended up here. What exactly are these nebulous "difficulties to integrate" I keep hearing about? Everyone keeps saying it but no one ever specifies what the fuck they mean by it. Please explain if that is "all there is to it".
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,884
London
Well, if SD gets their way in the future, depends on your skin color.
Then it will depend if you're from Scandinavia or not.
Then it will be basically if you're from anywhere but Skåne you're disgusting.

I'm Asian so I'm fucked then, lot of my family is from singapore/malaysia, well, it was nice having EU citizenship for 25 years, guess I'm stuck in UK whilst we become USA lite.
 

Aramon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
754
Finland
Problems have been known years, but politicians have not been willing to tackle the issues.

Beside crime there are also many problems.

Segregation and moral police in the suburbs.

Massive amount rise of honor culture. It is estimated that every third immigrant background youth age under 25 lives under pressure of honor.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,293
White people are the worst.

That's the crazy part. In Sweden, not even being white is good enough for the nazis. We're still at the infant stage of separating whiteness. The people being attacked by these idiotic policies are often so similar to Swedish white people in appearance that there would literally be no distinction made in the US, yet here they can barely get a job simply because of their name. I honestly can't even imagine what it's like being black in this soon-to-be piece of shit country.

Problems have been known years, but politicians have not been willing to tackle the issues.

Beside crime there are also many problems.

Segregation and moral police in the suburbs.

Massive amount rise of honor culture. It is estimated that every third immigrant background youth age under 25 lives under pressure of honor.

"Moral police in the suburbs"? What does that mean? Explain.

Got any sources for your claims about honor culture (presumably leading to criminal actions, from the context of your post) being on the rise? Who is estimating that?
 

Torres

Member
Oct 29, 2017
265
Money isn't all the is to it. There are other resources like availability of education and social services, living accommodations, good will and so on - that you can't just throw money on. Sweden has taken in far more people than we have the capacity to integrate, that's all there is to it. Btw I don't blame the immigrants in the slightest, can't be mad at people for wanting a better life for themselves.

"availability of education and social services" has everything to do with money and billionaires. There's only so much labor to go around, and most of it is going to fill the pockets of the super-rich. The lower wages of social sectors compared to others is directly tied to this because capitalist economies undervalue this form of labor since it's not immediately profitable.

"living accommodations" there are more than enough places to live in Sweden, one of the richest countries in the world.

"good will" also has everything to with money, considering the former.

The reaction against immigrants is exactly what happens in every welfare nation as the rich try to fund their control over the state and find the easiest scapegoat.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,293
Don't worry, SD wants to hold a referendum on the EU too!

See, I actually always wanted Sweden to leave the EU because I think that the EU has, in many ways, forced Sweden to pass laws to prevent state-owned enterprise such as our car makers (long since moved their production to other countries, resulting in industry towns grinding to a complete halt and now, presumably, being fed racist garbage and voting for SD) and drug stores being sold off to publicly traded international companies. Now people suddenly want to leave the EU for the complete opposite reason and push even more of those policies than the EU allows. Fucking siiiiiigh.

The reaction against immigrants is exactly what happens in every welfare nation as the rich try to fund their control over the state and find the easiest scapegoat.

What is your proposed solution here? Abolish the welfare state? Genuinely curious.
 

Hassel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,363
The natural swing of the pendulum. To you young folks, this will swing back and forth a few times in your lifetime.
 
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