I surely does not, the anguish that her parents go thru and the conclusion that's eventually made about the selfishness of that choice. Thirteen Reasons is more of a story structure assigned to explain the many aspects of teenage depression.
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Father believes death of his son, 15, is linked to Doki Doki Literature Club
- Thread starter HypedBeast
- Start date
I surely does not, the anguish that her parents go thru and the conclusion that's eventually made about the selfishness of that choice. Thirteen Reasons is more of a story structure assigned to explain the many aspects of teenage depression.
It needs clear labelling and an effective age control.
Maybe it wasn't the best idea to gain notoriety with sensitive topics like that.
Thinking about someone else's suicide, not yours.
Suicide exists, it's a fact in life, never depicting it is not the answer. Collective awareness is.
This is a good point, and speaks to the larger problem at work here. Had his parents known he was playing this game, that could've opened up a dialogue that led to him getting more support or professional help. In many of these cases it's a lack of parental involvement that allows these kids to spiral downward so far.
"The characters befriend and love you and give you tasks to do but if you do not do them, they turn nasty"
And to no one's surprise, they know nothing about the game.
And to no one's surprise, they know nothing about the game.
Ah another parent blames a video game for their own horrible, shitty parenting skills.
There's already a warning at the start of the game. The Devs are obligated to nothing else.
There's already a warning at the start of the game. The Devs are obligated to nothing else.
As someone else pointed out, talking about suicide does not implant any suicidal ideation in someone. I've interviewed a bunch of kids for a child anxiety study and some of the questions ask if they've ever thought of killing themselves or have ever tried. It was standard protocol. We had to ask these questions. It made some parents uncomfortable but there's research that shows that talking about it doesn't increase the risk of suicide.
Even if there were, a 15 year old could easily make another free Steam account and download this game, for free.
Automated parental controls are not a substitute for actually being involved in your kid's life.
You touch something here.. but i remember a lot of streamer said at start of each video, this game is not for everyone, you should consider before watching it. I saw a french youtuber that put a hotline suicide Number at the end of each part , and talk about it wide open at the end of the play. I think it could have help some of them that was watching.... This is hard to talk about that...
Spoilers ahead here?
I'm going to be honest here. DDLC has actually helped me cope with my depression. It gave me a shocker in the cut-scene that everyone knows by making me imagine how it must feel for my family if they had discovered me in the way that I found Sayori in her bedroom. And the part with Yuri shocked me cause I had/have been dangerously close to becoming as emotionally/mentally unstable as her. While the game does explain that it's all been orchestrated, it still felt real to me because I myself was going through that situation.
And then Natsuki made me feel remorse because the relationship with my father, while not as dangerous as the one that Natsuki had, is still extremely strained and it's hard for us to even talk to each other right now.
The game gave me a way to cope and it helped me just how important some things in life are that I take for granted all the time. It's still hard for me to look at some certain scenes in the game because I still feel myself being in those situations, but I did have an outlet that I could release my frustrations.
I'm going to be honest here. DDLC has actually helped me cope with my depression. It gave me a shocker in the cut-scene that everyone knows by making me imagine how it must feel for my family if they had discovered me in the way that I found Sayori in her bedroom. And the part with Yuri shocked me cause I had/have been dangerously close to becoming as emotionally/mentally unstable as her. While the game does explain that it's all been orchestrated, it still felt real to me because I myself was going through that situation.
And then Natsuki made me feel remorse because the relationship with my father, while not as dangerous as the one that Natsuki had, is still extremely strained and it's hard for us to even talk to each other right now.
The game gave me a way to cope and it helped me just how important some things in life are that I take for granted all the time. It's still hard for me to look at some certain scenes in the game because I still feel myself being in those situations, but I did have an outlet that I could release my frustrations.
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As someone that has wrestled with suicidal thoughts for a long time, I know that the biggest things that feed it are a feeling loneliness and not being understood. The fear of isolation, and being afraid to tell people you are suicidal are huge parts. A game isn't going to kill someone. Its going to be the fact that parents dont ask enough about their kids, and mental health opportunities are not available enough in schools without stigma.
Werther-Effekt? Yeah no, that one is highly disputed.
Chalk me up as someone who felt like the game helped me come to terms with some of my own darker thoughts. I especially came to appreciate how the game handles the writing of Sayori as a character who throughout your interactions with her actually evokes a pretty palpable feeling of what it's like to be depressed, and the feeling that even when you get what you want, it doesn't stop the self destructive feelings. Getting the best ending of the game was extremely bittersweet but I found a lot of solace in it by the end of it all, a sense that the game didn't patronize me for my genuine investment in the characters. While it can't be said for everyone, it at least made me want to try bettering myself as a person.
And you're extrapolating this to shock imagery?
Worked like a charm, right?
OP
OP
What more could the game have done? He was 17, so legally able to buy the game. The game has multiple warnings before even starting up, and there is even an obvious tell before the moment happens in the game.
The game didn't cause him to commit suicide. It's sad but the kid likely had been contemplating it for a while now and could very easily have done it regardless of having played the game or not.
So what should the game have done? It's not the responsibility of the devs to stop suicides .
As other say, any kid can easily bypass automated systems. There's no machine or program that can replace parenting.
OP
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And they did that just for the sake of people who might have anxiety or depression. If the game didnt have those and it was a legitimate surprise for blind players, it would be WAY more effective.
We need to stop stigmatizing the idea of suicide to the fringes of society so the people who need help can get it. Trying to lock up a VN isn't a solution to anything.
In a few quick, shallow posts, you've completely misrepresented mental illness, the content of the game, and the intentions of the person who created it.
Depression is a not an "illness of thoughts,' whatever the hell that means. It's a physical affliction. It's not treated through thinking happy thoughts.
The game DOES have several clear content warnings before and after you download the game.
And your accusation that the creator just put this game out to drum up some controversy for his next game is disgusting.
You can't know if he wouldn't have come to that point maybe only a day later, without the game.
How dare you insinuate that the parents weren't doing what they could?
Okay, that's pretty thorough.
Steam Parent App on your phone?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It's what I read about it, I believe.
I can concede that I don't know much about depression, I imagine that a depressed person is trapped in their mind. That's what I wanted to allude to.
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Ah, I see everyone is dismissing media as a factor in real world consequence again.
At least someone already posted this:
Obviously the game didn't make the kid commit suicide. It could have been a contributing factor though. Evidence does show a connection between media and suicide.
Obviously (I feel like this word needs to be used a lot in these kinds of topics smh) banning the game or blaming the game is not rational. We shouldn't suddenly stop writing/filming/developing media depicting suicide because of this.
Obviously, the correct path to take is better care and a better understanding of those who suffer from depression.
However, the casual dismissal of media having an impact on people and shaming of the father in this thread (by some, obviously not all posters) is just sad.
At least someone already posted this:
Obviously the game didn't make the kid commit suicide. It could have been a contributing factor though. Evidence does show a connection between media and suicide.
Obviously (I feel like this word needs to be used a lot in these kinds of topics smh) banning the game or blaming the game is not rational. We shouldn't suddenly stop writing/filming/developing media depicting suicide because of this.
Obviously, the correct path to take is better care and a better understanding of those who suffer from depression.
However, the casual dismissal of media having an impact on people and shaming of the father in this thread (by some, obviously not all posters) is just sad.
OP
OP
It's not shaming, it's about awareness. Parents not being aware of what their kids are doing online can have terrible repercussions.
This is why developers/writers really do need to think and take care before using such imagery. Depictions of suicide can trigger suicides. Content warning or not you really need to be sure what you're making is worth that risk. IMO DDLC just uses the issue for a horror shock value and doesn't come close to meeting this bar and that makes this even more tragic. Being free it was only a matter of time until something happend.
I'd just like to note that actually implementing "effective age control" in a case like this means completely changing the internet as we know it to something much more restrictive.
I'm not trying to be overly dramatic here, just describing the reality of the situation. To effectively prevent a 15 year old from playing some free game you need to fundamentally change the very basics of the internet (in a way that I'd consider detrimental overall, but that's open to discussion).
Making a steam account is free and super easy so I don't see how an app would help anything. Not to mention the kid In question was 17, so old enough for the mature age rating
I don't know what the parental guidelines rated this game, but when you start it up it seem to have so many warnings that I even question if I wanted to watch a video of a person starting it because I was curious about the game (A best of free to play steam games thread on Era made it sound interesting).
I think it more so normalizes it rather than idealizes...but yes your point still remains.
Sad to see... Honestly I think we need to work as a society to make hotlines and psychiatric health as available as possible to help reduce these types of incidents. We also desperately need to work on destigmatizing getting mental health. While I am certainly no expert in suicides or mental health, I personally think a lot of these issues stem from a sense of isolation and loneliness, which our society creates by demonizing those suffering. While I won't say that the game had no effect, I highly doubt it was the sole reason or even the main reason this happened.
The game is also available to download for free on Team Salvato's website so parental restrictions on Steam would not keep children from downloading it if the they motivated to do so. As others mentioned, several of the popular YouTubers, many with younger audiences, played the game and I am not sure if they all put content warnings on their videos.
The second season really is where it loses focus. It tries to cover too my topics I think.. all good topics to cover but again it just seems to lose focus by doing so.
But it's almost always better to bring topics to forefront in a show that many people will see than to pretend they don't exist.
I am aware. It's why I wondered if maybe the publisher should have provided a more restricted access to it.
I brought this up because Nintendo's setup got the first ever seal of approval by Germany's USK. Imagine getting descriptors like PEGI's on your phone about what your kids are owning/playing, and suicide being one of them. I think people would like that.
You are absolutely right. However shaming this father is not the way to go. This was a free downloadable game. His son could have downloaded it without his knowledge. Gotten it from a friend. Who knows, kids are more clever than many adults give them credit for.
I really believe artists and creators need to really think about how they portray suicide in media. I'm all for media attempting to cover any and all subjects, but the truth is that the explicit portrayl of suicide in media does cause a measurable and significant uptick in suicides, both attempted and successful. This has been studied and should always be in the back of the mind for artists when they touch upon this subject. Media can bring awareness and really help many people dealing with a variety of issues, but it has to be nuanced. My condolences to the father and I think this has to be the topic of discussion for more artists and creators.
Yup. Agreed.
Again, it's not shaming. Its raising awareness. At the point at which your kid commits suicide and you are blindsided by it, you've missed a lot more than just what free games he's downloaded from Steam. That's my entire point.
Kids are incredibly good at hiding the dangerous things they are doing from their parents. I was one of those kids. That doesnt a absolve parents of responsibility. Ultimately you are responsible for your child.
What does this even mean? Do you realize how trivial it is to pay for things while "underage"? Since when has payment ever been a sole source of age gating?