I'm sure it will turn out that Joel died and Dana will just get captured and Ellie is on a warpath to free her
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Kotaku: Let Queer Characters Be Happy
- Thread starter BDS
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I mean DAi kinda counts cus even if you don't romance them, the characters remain gay and can have romances without you. If you don't romance Dorian or the Iron Bull, and have them together in your party alot, they get together and depending on your decisions with Iron Bull can have a really, cute sweet ending or a horrible one. If you don't romance Sera, she ends up with Dagna in Trespasser and are defo happy ending. It's not a large part of the game but they are there. It would be cool to have a game where it's larger part.
While I do think gay characters get very few happy endings I do think it's okay if a writer wants it the way they want it.
Also is queer not an insensitive word or???
Also is queer not an insensitive word or???
You first start with the world of the story being told, then consider whether the character is uneccesraily falling into a trope that contradicts it.
So in the Last of Us, it wouldn't have made sense for any of the women to be overly sexual. Sexy characters are fine, but that had no place in the world that the game took place in (a horrific survival of the fittest environment).
The same goes for happiness. The only time we see happiness, it comes at a high price (Joel doing the unthinkable and being selfish to keep it). And there is always an underlying tension that the bottom will eventually fall out with whatever happiness there is.
So given the context of the world, I don't feel it makes sense for Ellie to be happy - especially if it's being done so because she's gay. That sounds counter-productive to progressive writing, and would almost be patronizing.
Ellie is not being defined by her sexuality. She's just like everyone else, and is struggling with the horrible world she lives in.
I also find the article strange with the "we know what's gonna happen". I mean yeah that's predictable. But why base an article on something not even out yet (especially when it's one of criticism).
That said, the articles greater criticisms of the trope of gays being met with violence and unhappiness is a valid one. I think the argument could be made that this is a problem. I just think her use of Ellie as an example, doesn't really work here.
So in the Last of Us, it wouldn't have made sense for any of the women to be overly sexual. Sexy characters are fine, but that had no place in the world that the game took place in (a horrific survival of the fittest environment).
The same goes for happiness. The only time we see happiness, it comes at a high price (Joel doing the unthinkable and being selfish to keep it). And there is always an underlying tension that the bottom will eventually fall out with whatever happiness there is.
So given the context of the world, I don't feel it makes sense for Ellie to be happy - especially if it's being done so because she's gay. That sounds counter-productive to progressive writing, and would almost be patronizing.
Ellie is not being defined by her sexuality. She's just like everyone else, and is struggling with the horrible world she lives in.
I also find the article strange with the "we know what's gonna happen". I mean yeah that's predictable. But why base an article on something not even out yet (especially when it's one of criticism).
That said, the articles greater criticisms of the trope of gays being met with violence and unhappiness is a valid one. I think the argument could be made that this is a problem. I just think her use of Ellie as an example, doesn't really work here.
I disagree on The Last of Us. I mean, yeah, it's sad that Riley died, but we knew she died long before we even knew Ellie and her had a thing. Who knows if Ellie's sexuality was even locked on before Left Behind? Even then, I agree that such events fit the world of The Last of Us. The game is all about loss every step of the way.
And I do think Dorian is an example of a queer character with a happy ending. As is the Iron Bull (which weirdly doesn't seem to be considered queer, as the article does not mention him at all?). Iron Bull's personal questline has nothing to do with his sexuality, he is never bullied for being pansexual and gets a happy ending with the right choices.
Dorian, while having the usual storyline of family rejection, has a positive outcome in how he stands up to his father. And, as the story unfolds, Dorian goes back to Tevinter to take his father's place in the magisterium and activelly works to right the Imperium's wrongs.
Those sound like happiness to me.
Yes, do let more queer characters be happy, by all means. But do so where it fits, just like you would with any other character.
And I do think Dorian is an example of a queer character with a happy ending. As is the Iron Bull (which weirdly doesn't seem to be considered queer, as the article does not mention him at all?). Iron Bull's personal questline has nothing to do with his sexuality, he is never bullied for being pansexual and gets a happy ending with the right choices.
Dorian, while having the usual storyline of family rejection, has a positive outcome in how he stands up to his father. And, as the story unfolds, Dorian goes back to Tevinter to take his father's place in the magisterium and activelly works to right the Imperium's wrongs.
Those sound like happiness to me.
Yes, do let more queer characters be happy, by all means. But do so where it fits, just like you would with any other character.
Never really thought that her girlfriend gets killed and she is on her way to revenge her... I think she will get kidnapped and the community will get fucked up by the group and Ellie will try to safe her and avenge the killed community members. Would be cooler. Women and fridge yeah yeah, still...maybe they even have Joel too and want to bait Ellie.
There's also Sera who's a lesbian and has a happy ending where she's happy being a Red Jenny and also ends up in a happy, cute relationship with Dagna in Trespasser. Really don't think DAI was a good example for this. You could argue DA2 but I don't think any character gets out of that game unscathed. I'm trying to think of a character that gets a happy ending in that game and really can't, at most they sort of try to move on and deal with what happened to them.
I do agree that we need more types of representation. We've only recently starting having more varied representation of the gay community in gaming and I truly believe we'll see that expand. It feels more like devs are trying to mirror reality atm where the gay community is still oppressed, and thankfully they are treating the subject matter with a sense of respect.
The one thing I do appreciate I do appreciate (at least in regards to TLOU) is that they make these characters easier to relate to and empathize/feel for. The feeling of loss when we know Ellie will lose Riley was so strong for me and I would assume it would effect many other people the same way. I feel like we are in a transition period in gaming where we are only starting to see more stories with fleshed out gay characters.
The one thing I do appreciate I do appreciate (at least in regards to TLOU) is that they make these characters easier to relate to and empathize/feel for. The feeling of loss when we know Ellie will lose Riley was so strong for me and I would assume it would effect many other people the same way. I feel like we are in a transition period in gaming where we are only starting to see more stories with fleshed out gay characters.
The Walking Dead pulled this with some of their characters too. From new relationship to eaten by zombies in the span of like 1 episode, and since that couple was made up of minor characters I think everyone just brushed it off. It's a trope that I didn't realize was so common until the whole thing with The 100 happened and I started looking through things to see where else it happened.
Since we're speculating on the story: My take is that the community will turn on Ellie and Joel for reasons, and her new boo will end up being the main antagonist.
Happiness in TLOU is fleeting.
Happiness in TLOU is fleeting.
Thank you for this thread! I really hope they don't kill off Ellie's love interest to give her a revenge arc. Queer characters so rarely get happy endings, and it would be great to see it happen for once. I also would hate that direction because it would basically be giving Ellie the same motivations as the generic video game male hero; killing off a woman in order to provide characterization for the protagonist. And as others have mentioned, it's already been done in Left Behind.
Queer is a label many take because LGBT doesn't really fit. I use queer to describe myself because while I am bisexual, I fall more towards same sex relationships because I'm more romantically attracted to women. My girlfriend takes the queer label because while she is bisexual, she's much more attracted to women than men.
It's also more easy to write about queer culture than "LGBT" culture, and the term is more inclusive while at the same time being easier to say.
Queer is a reclaimed word, much like how black people have reclaimed the N word or how gay men have reclaimed another slur.
Queer is a label many take because LGBT doesn't really fit. I use queer to describe myself because while I am bisexual, I fall more towards same sex relationships because I'm more romantically attracted to women. My girlfriend takes the queer label because while she is bisexual, she's much more attracted to women than men.
It's also more easy to write about queer culture than "LGBT" culture, and the term is more inclusive while at the same time being easier to say.
I think the cult will massacre the town, kidnap some, spurring Ellie, perhaps Joel too, to go after them.
I think that too many folks focused on Max's ambiguity.
That they don't take into account that Chloe, the very explicitly LGBTQ member of the cast of LiS, suffers a rather disproportionate amount.
Now I won't deny that there are times Chloe is insufferable.
but compared to literally everyone else in the cast? Chloe's life is suffering.
so many bad things can and will only happen to Chloe
That they don't take into account that Chloe, the very explicitly LGBTQ member of the cast of LiS, suffers a rather disproportionate amount.
Now I won't deny that there are times Chloe is insufferable.
but compared to literally everyone else in the cast? Chloe's life is suffering.
so many bad things can and will only happen to Chloe
It is always interesting to see games from the perspective of someone who has a different life than me. When a gay character is treated poorly or has a bad/sad ending I guess it does not stand out to me as much as someone who is gay.
From my perspective though, minority/gay characters have been underrepresented in video games. There is an effort, just like it other forms of media, to balance this but it will take many years to get it right.
The problem I see is that writing in video games is overall poor. I am not sure why this is, but most games that make an effort to have a story end up feeling like the a poorly made soap opera. All forms of media copy themselves, but in video games I almost feel like I am playing the same story over and over at times with just different names and settings.
Completely off subject, but an effort to show how writers in game just reuse ideas over and over. Video games are a power trip for a lot of people. Writers love to put segments and sections in their games where the main characters is knocked out/overpowered out of no where. They then try to allow that character to escape and get powerful again. Sometimes it is horrible how this is handled, with a character walking into a room and getting knocked out with the but of a gun to the head. This arc is, in the writers/developers mind, a way to build emotion and a response from the gamer. I just find it boring now, especially with how someone at Ubisoft seems to REALLY love doing this 5 or more times in their games.
So I guess my long winded point is I have felt for years that writers in games are unnecessarily cruel to most of the game characters in video games that try to have a strong story. I think it is just easier to write a sad/bad ending for someone outside a more nuanced blended ending. It is more shocking now when a character has a true happy ending and not a sad/gotcha ending.
I remember the reaction to the ending of Mass Effect 3. No matter how you feel about the ending, there was no doubt there was backlash. One person on another forum I go to was trying to defend the ending saying people where upset with the sad nature of the ending. I did not get into an argument but I remember thinking, "so many games have a sad ending...if I was upset with how Mass Effect 3 ended because it was sad, I would be upset with just about every major game out there"
So I think the problem with how gay characters are treated has less to do with trying to be cruel to gay people and more to do with how writers in that media just follow a playbook they use for every form of their writing. When a powerhouse like ND decides to put the focus on a gay character (and to be fair their writing is fantastic) it is only natural that they would want to treat that character just like every other character in that universe....
From my perspective though, minority/gay characters have been underrepresented in video games. There is an effort, just like it other forms of media, to balance this but it will take many years to get it right.
The problem I see is that writing in video games is overall poor. I am not sure why this is, but most games that make an effort to have a story end up feeling like the a poorly made soap opera. All forms of media copy themselves, but in video games I almost feel like I am playing the same story over and over at times with just different names and settings.
Completely off subject, but an effort to show how writers in game just reuse ideas over and over. Video games are a power trip for a lot of people. Writers love to put segments and sections in their games where the main characters is knocked out/overpowered out of no where. They then try to allow that character to escape and get powerful again. Sometimes it is horrible how this is handled, with a character walking into a room and getting knocked out with the but of a gun to the head. This arc is, in the writers/developers mind, a way to build emotion and a response from the gamer. I just find it boring now, especially with how someone at Ubisoft seems to REALLY love doing this 5 or more times in their games.
So I guess my long winded point is I have felt for years that writers in games are unnecessarily cruel to most of the game characters in video games that try to have a strong story. I think it is just easier to write a sad/bad ending for someone outside a more nuanced blended ending. It is more shocking now when a character has a true happy ending and not a sad/gotcha ending.
I remember the reaction to the ending of Mass Effect 3. No matter how you feel about the ending, there was no doubt there was backlash. One person on another forum I go to was trying to defend the ending saying people where upset with the sad nature of the ending. I did not get into an argument but I remember thinking, "so many games have a sad ending...if I was upset with how Mass Effect 3 ended because it was sad, I would be upset with just about every major game out there"
So I think the problem with how gay characters are treated has less to do with trying to be cruel to gay people and more to do with how writers in that media just follow a playbook they use for every form of their writing. When a powerhouse like ND decides to put the focus on a gay character (and to be fair their writing is fantastic) it is only natural that they would want to treat that character just like every other character in that universe....
User Banned (1 Week): Vilifying journalism + misrepresenting diversity and inclusivity efforts
If somehow we lived in an alternate timeline where many queer characters in popular video games had coincidentally been placed in happy circumstances, there would be a Kotaku or Polygon article outraged about how, "Queer characters aren't allowed to show a full range of emotions in game. Queer people are allowed to be sad too! Why aren't these video games reflecting MY LIVED EXPERIENCE?"
There's no winning with these people.
There's no winning with these people.
User Banned (Permanent): Dismissing concerns about representation, previous infraction for similar behaviour.
This. The identity politics crowd is never satisfied. But that's what happens when you view life through the prism of group rather than individual.
I've always found this weird psuedo rule book for when it comes to writing LGBT characters that members of the internet have seemingly created for writers is incredibly restrictive
Things like
- A gay character can't be evil or bad because it enforces negative stereotypes on the LGBT community because people associate that as a condition of them being gay (even when a show goes out of its way to correlate that them being bad or evil is not because they are gay)
-A gay character can not die or their love interest can not die because it enforces the "bury your gays" trope or "gays can't be happy"
-A gay character must be in the forefront of a show otherwise it is tokenism
and then there is the complete opposite of people going "having gays are politicizing things, forced representation, etc"
The amount of criticisms and complaints I have seen regarding LGBT characters just feels like they get a ridiculous amount of scrutiny regardless of someone being pro or anti LGBT.
As for this article, the context of the story and the world of TLOU2 makes the inevitable death of Ellies GF obvious sure, but understandable.
I doubt anyone was shocked during the opening of TLOU, the most surprising thing about it was the cause of the thing that happened
Things like
- A gay character can't be evil or bad because it enforces negative stereotypes on the LGBT community because people associate that as a condition of them being gay (even when a show goes out of its way to correlate that them being bad or evil is not because they are gay)
-A gay character can not die or their love interest can not die because it enforces the "bury your gays" trope or "gays can't be happy"
-A gay character must be in the forefront of a show otherwise it is tokenism
and then there is the complete opposite of people going "having gays are politicizing things, forced representation, etc"
The amount of criticisms and complaints I have seen regarding LGBT characters just feels like they get a ridiculous amount of scrutiny regardless of someone being pro or anti LGBT.
As for this article, the context of the story and the world of TLOU2 makes the inevitable death of Ellies GF obvious sure, but understandable.
I doubt anyone was shocked during the opening of TLOU, the most surprising thing about it was the cause of the thing that happened
Omg you're so perceptive! I just know as a queer person the first thing I'd want to see is other queer people suffering because that's real life! I'd just be so tired of seeing happy queer couples after the fourth or fifth one. I mean who wants to normalize that kind of thing? So much better to show tragic gays getting hurt by homophobia.
/s
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To clarify, I didn't mean sex wouldn't exist in that world. But it wouldn't make sense for the women in the story to be wearing skimpy clothes. It's a game about survival. It's a brutal world. Those left alive, had to claw their way to the top.
It would just be a tone a clash IMO. I think you have to look at any games world + story, and decide if in the context, something makes sense or doesn't make sense. I don't think Tess wearing sexy clothes would make that much sense.
Maybe it was a bad example. But my whole point was, happiness doesn't really make sense in the world / story of the game. Or if it exists, it's fleeting or under constant threat. A happy character would be a tone clash.
Nah, I'd bet a not inconsequential amount of money that Naughty Dog wouldn't go there.
Attempted rape or considering suicide, maybe, but not actually going through with either of them.
The article is cherry picking like mad.
It mentions Bioware games which have plenty of queer characters who get happy endings (or at least can do, depending on player choices). Isabella, Merrill, Iron Bull, Zevran, Liara, Jack, Samara, just off the top of my head. Many of them are generally cheery characters as well. But omigod look Anders is angsty and sad! Why this injustice?!
"Why do games refuse to acknowledge the genuine hardships of queer people".
Many male villians are coded gay and effeminate in opposition to a more masculine hero; which sends a pretty direct message that femininity in men is 'other' and evil, and that masculinity / straightness is right and good. There is also the disturbing trope about crossdressing with villans that plays into the whole transphobic perception that trans women are 'lying' about being women. (See Ace Ventura for the most disgusting example of this).
In itself it's not a problem. We're talking about tropes that exist on a wide level within culture. It would be novel or interesting if it wasn't beaten to death a million times (pun somewhat intended)
Usually it's not queer people complaining about 'tokenism', but people sick of diversity. Nevertheless it's nice to see a character's queerness at the forefront rather than hidden away in a half mumbled line (See Beauty and the Beast or Power Rangers from last year)
Those people are bigots, and need not be listened to.
a) The possibility was very heavily implied in the first game, yes, but it never got to the point of anyone actually attempting the deed.
b) I'm specifically talking about it happening to Ellie, which is what the person I quoted mentioned. Someone else committing suicide, sure, could definitely happen. I could even see it happening to Joel, although that's unlikely.
So many rules and restrictions around how to present gay characters, it's incredibly restrictive. People (rightly so) want more representation in games, yet when devs do include they are criticised left and right with things like this. Ridiculous amount of scrutiny.
Complaining about things like this isn't exactly inviting for more devs to include this representation. You should focus your time and energy on criticising genuinely poor gay characters, rather than attack the few great written ones.
If you want a lovey dovey, can't be hurt and does no wrong character in a game your asking for a boring character imo.
Complaining about things like this isn't exactly inviting for more devs to include this representation. You should focus your time and energy on criticising genuinely poor gay characters, rather than attack the few great written ones.
If you want a lovey dovey, can't be hurt and does no wrong character in a game your asking for a boring character imo.
While I completely understand why this trope is negative, I can't help but feel it's misplaced in video games. Nearly every single adult led mature game opens with a great who's significant other gets killed, or was killed and that's what set them on their path.
That's not excusing them either, mind you. It's a lazy story telling mechanism. I just don't think even subconsciously this is anything against LGBT characters, and especially not main story characters.
That's not excusing them either, mind you. It's a lazy story telling mechanism. I just don't think even subconsciously this is anything against LGBT characters, and especially not main story characters.
Yeah, exactly. To bring up BioWare on a semi-positive argument makes no sense. They're the devs bringing the most diversity in characters and storylines for said characters out there. You get your happy and sad characters in BioWare games. Queer or not. And I speak as a gay man.
True. Also, considering every romance option in DA2 (with the exception of Sebastian) is player-sexual, which renders them bisexual, it's kind of hard to avoid having a queer character that doesn't get hit by a sad event. Dragon Age 2 is grim-dark as fuck through and through,
We don't know anything about the plot, so this kind of speculation is a bit too premature.
But I hope she gets killed if that means I'll see Ellie going full berserk. I didn't play TLOU -the game that opened with a murdered child that still today makes me choke and tear up- for the happy story, so I expect everything that could go wrong really.
But I hope she gets killed if that means I'll see Ellie going full berserk. I didn't play TLOU -the game that opened with a murdered child that still today makes me choke and tear up- for the happy story, so I expect everything that could go wrong really.
While I can see issues with that, I am more attributing this to even when a character is not "coded". For example recently in the web show RWBY there is a character who is revealed as gay. She is a villain who had feelings for one of the main characters but was never able to express them, however the reason she is doing "evil actions" is because she feels that what she is doing is right and it is not motivated by those feelings for the character. People still attributed this character as a "psycho lesbian" even though the show kept going "she isn't doing this because she is gay"
Or in Dexter season 6 or 7 I think, the villain is gay. He is not coded as effeminate, but people still took him as a "negative" because the show was portraying a gay man as a criminal and that his motivation was the death of his partner.
Sure, but the increased amount of scrutiny LGBT characters are seemingly constantly under must be a complete headache for writers because them being "LGBT" becomes their defining character trait and every action they perform in the story is blamed on "this is happening because they are LGBT or that is why they are doing it"
Considering Druckman has said that the theme of the game is "hate" a happy ending really makes no sense. Even the old god of war games were aware enough to not give Kratos a happy ending as reward for his path of revenge.
That sucks to hear. Really liked that character and assumed no one would take offense with it as it was really just played as a mob boss who happens to be gay
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Not to single you out, but I'm not sure why people are acting like this is particularly scathing criticism or shows a "ridiculous amount of scrutiny." Lazy, repeated use of tropes is something that get criticized whether queer people are involved or not. The article is just asking for more variety in how queer characters and their relationships are depicted, which seems fair. Why should that scare developers away from including them?
Frankly, these kind of comments really stink of "well you got your queer characters so stop complaining!"
And this is just a straw man, nobody is asking for that.
Ah, ok well I'd see where this is annoying then if people are still saying that's bad. Also I'm only on Season 4 of RWBY so I'm REALLY excited now to catch up and see which of the villans is gay. I think the distinction is something like you pointed out. She's not being evil because she's gay, she's evil for other reasons. If her gayness was the cause of her being evil, I could see people more taking issue with it.
Probably. Some parts of the fandom of NEVER satisfied. I remember a Stephen Universe artist getting tons of shit for 'queer baiting' this one couple. Ironically the artist was, herself, a lesbian. I think overall though it's a problem of the fact queer characters are so underrepresented right now. Might also help to hire more LGBT writers or get perspective from them themselves. When more queer character exist, there will probably be less heightened scrutiny.
Druckmann is already on thin ice for me after Uncharted 4 but if he rapes Ellie (which I really don't think he will, but hey it could happen) then he's fucking cancelled forever
Same. Lesbian character getting raped because hate/homophobia is going to make me nope out of this shit HARD.
If anyone wants a game with a queer couple that gets a happy ending, check out GrimGrimoire for PS2 (it's also a PS2 classic on PS3). It's like Harry Potter but gay!
I may have exaggerated, but clearly people are looking specifically for happy gay couples that have happy endings. You don't have to go far in the thread to see people wanting that. Is that wrong? No.
If you want straw men look at your perspective of my post. That couldn't be further from what I meant.
Same. Lesbian character getting raped because hate/homophobia is going to make me nope out of this shit HARD.
If anyone wants a game with a queer couple that gets a happy ending, check out GrimGrimoire for PS2 (it's also a PS2 classic on PS3). It's like Harry Potter but gay!
See what I'm thinking is that the cult is going old school in their reasons for raiding Tommy's camp.
What did man do back in the day when we lived in super tribal societies? We raided other tribes for their females for breeding purposes and to kill competing hunters and take other resources.
So I can see the religious people wanting to expand but not having the numbers so they could be raiding communities to get alot of women for breeding their next generation. Just because it seems to be a female run cult, doesn't rule out this at all.
We also already know that this cult thinks that they are the only good humans left on this earth to some degree so I can see them thinking that this breeding will help repopulate the earth in their own image. Also I Doubt Ellie will be raped if only because she is the player character and we usually have control when those type of situations pop up. Her Girlfriend being kidnapped with other women in the camp being raped is not out of conventional thinking.
They could also be kidnapping people for forcible conversion to their faith or whatever. We really don't have a concrete image of their motives yet.
Slightly off topic, but here's my current theory for how the game will go down:
Ellie's revenge will mainly be motivated by learning about something that happened to her mother (Laura Bailey's character.) She takes it too far and drives away the people who care about her.
Ellie's revenge will mainly be motivated by learning about something that happened to her mother (Laura Bailey's character.) She takes it too far and drives away the people who care about her.
Apologies, I probably worded that in a more accusatory sounding way than I should have. To clarify, I don't think that's what you in particular were trying to say, only that that sort of sentiment (that people are just being overly critical etc.) comes off that way sometimes, especially after hearing it repeated a bunch.
I mean, that's not quite fair. It's not about this sort of thing not being able to happen--it's about the fact that queer characters have a history of a)being over-the-top villains; b)having their love interest killed in higher proportion to straight couples, and c)being reduced to just being queer instead of having well-rounded characterization instead of solely stereotypes.
It's definitely not an easy issue, because there are some people who will criticize representation no matter what. Discussion and analysis isn't bad--every medium gets it--but you're definitely going to have people who, for instance, insist Dream Daddy is inherently homophobic. These kinds of discussions are complicated for sure. The biggest thing with the push for representation, though, is "hey. let us have queer characters who are people. even if they're feminine guys or masculine women, let them have more character traits than just the one". Hell, Ellie herself is awesome--she has a distinct character arc and there's more to her than just kissing women.
The issues of them being evil or dying come from the way media has historically treated us. It's definitely a hard balancing act: you don't want to avoid putting them through suffering or else it seems unfair, but once you're conscious about the tropes that LGBT characters have faced, it becomes more about thinking about influences and really considering how to proceed. Think of it this way, for villains: a gay villain who gets complex motivation and isn't just one-dimensionally stereotypical may be a better choice than no gay character at all. Sure, you'll run into the issue of killing off a gay character in a game that may only have one. It's a balancing act, and yeah, not everyone will be pleased, but doing *something* to change the landscape of representation is preferable to throwing up your hands in frustration. Essentially, it boils down to "give us more diversity in gaming", from character designs to arcs to motivations to fates.
I get it but using TLOU2 as an example is dumb for reasons already explained. In general I hate the whole "kill the bf/gf" route and it pisses me off even more when it happens to the sole gay character(Deadly Class comes to mind, I just stopped reading after that). I think the context here makes everything make a lot more sense in this case. We'll see. I'm gonna trust them on this one.
Mostly I'm just happy that we have a gay character fronting such a huge game. Completely unheard of.
Mostly I'm just happy that we have a gay character fronting such a huge game. Completely unheard of.
I've got no horse on this race. However, thanks for this post, it expresses what I feel.
I hope we get more and more games that feature happy LGBT relationships soon...
I think it's a good post! I do think it's important to look at the history of representation and the issues surrounding it (like Bury Your Gays), but I think it's also important we celebrate progress. From what I've read from this author, I don't think she's ignoring that it's a huge step forward--it's just also something that spurred her to write this given how often queer characters are killed. We can celebrate progress while still craving it in other areas, after all.
I understand what the author is trying to say, but I'm not sure I'm 100% on board. In video games, deaths of loved ones, clans and families happen all the time to motivate protagonists of all creeds colours, whether they're gay or not. - Even the original The Last of Us started with Joel's daughter being killed.
With that being said, it's not exactly something I've been keeping an eye out for, and gay characters aren't as commonplace as they perhaps should be. I'll have to make a point of checking if the author's thoughts really ring true.
With that being said, it's not exactly something I've been keeping an eye out for, and gay characters aren't as commonplace as they perhaps should be. I'll have to make a point of checking if the author's thoughts really ring true.
I think the point is that a lot of lgbt people would never expect a game like Uncharted 4 but with a gay character. We know Drake's wife is never going to die because of the love interest plot armor. Meanwhile in queer fiction characters suffer most of the time to the point it's hard to expect a happy ending. I definitely never expected Ellie's new girlfriend to survive the game after watching the trailer, not even for a minute. And while it's great TLOU has a prominent gay female character, it's okay to criticize common tropes surrounding them.
Often times it feels like a character can be lgbt but can't be happy. It's one or the other.
Often times it feels like a character can be lgbt but can't be happy. It's one or the other.
I'll use any excuse to bring up NieR and this is a pretty good thread to do so.
So the NieR series has Emil, everyone's favorite basilisk eyed immortal boy turned weird skeleton lich wizard turned weird cart-driving head, who is only subtly implied to not be straight (an implied attraction to young Nier in the Japan only Replicant version of the game) in the game, but was confirmed as gay by Yoko Taro.
Emil goes through a lot. His life in general is pretty awful and full of tragedy, but not because he's gay, but because everyone who lives in the NieR world is fucked for some reason or another. But the best part about Emil is he never gives up hope, and is willing to put others before himself in a selfless way.
People who only play Automata just see him as that weird ball head that drives a cart around playing goofy music, but he's a complex character who just happens to be queer while having his own desires and friends and makes his choices based on who he is as a person.
There's also Operator 6O, probably the cheeriest, happiest person in the whole series. This is a bit more difficult because she's clearly coded as queer (in that she mentions asking a female android coworker on a date but got turned down) but the androids don't seem to have the concept of things like "gay, straight, bi, whatever" and are generally just presented as male/female genders because that's what they were told humans did so they have to do it too, right? But for all intents and purposes, and as seen by the fanbase, she's gay. And she's a fan favorite, everyone loves 6O, as they should.
Yoko Taro doesn't discriminate when it comes to tragedy, everyone is subject to it.
So the NieR series has Emil, everyone's favorite basilisk eyed immortal boy turned weird skeleton lich wizard turned weird cart-driving head, who is only subtly implied to not be straight (an implied attraction to young Nier in the Japan only Replicant version of the game) in the game, but was confirmed as gay by Yoko Taro.
Emil goes through a lot. His life in general is pretty awful and full of tragedy, but not because he's gay, but because everyone who lives in the NieR world is fucked for some reason or another. But the best part about Emil is he never gives up hope, and is willing to put others before himself in a selfless way.
He ends up outliving all the people he cares about, and through his attempted heroic actions even loses his memory of them, but is able to remember them in his final moments, when he finally gets to be at peace.
People who only play Automata just see him as that weird ball head that drives a cart around playing goofy music, but he's a complex character who just happens to be queer while having his own desires and friends and makes his choices based on who he is as a person.
There's also Operator 6O, probably the cheeriest, happiest person in the whole series. This is a bit more difficult because she's clearly coded as queer (in that she mentions asking a female android coworker on a date but got turned down) but the androids don't seem to have the concept of things like "gay, straight, bi, whatever" and are generally just presented as male/female genders because that's what they were told humans did so they have to do it too, right? But for all intents and purposes, and as seen by the fanbase, she's gay. And she's a fan favorite, everyone loves 6O, as they should.
Shes does meet a tragic end, but so does the entire YoRHa organization.