You're basically saying that Waters isn't doing her job here.
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Bernie Sanders, Pelosi and Schumer Find Common Ground: SHS should be allowed to Dine in Peace
- Thread starter excelsiorlef
- Start date
Chris Hayes had Bernie on and asked him about this
Basically, "we have to win, yelling in restaurants isn't going to do that", Hayes responds "some people want to do something", Bernie back, "What you can do is win!"
Paraphrased obv, hopefully it's uploaded but... pretty empty stuff. Like he does say "I'm not going to tell them to stop".... but reemphasises it's not gonna win anything, tsk tsk.
Basically, "we have to win, yelling in restaurants isn't going to do that", Hayes responds "some people want to do something", Bernie back, "What you can do is win!"
Paraphrased obv, hopefully it's uploaded but... pretty empty stuff. Like he does say "I'm not going to tell them to stop".... but reemphasises it's not gonna win anything, tsk tsk.
Did he forget he marched for civil rights in the 60s lol
Saw him talking about it on air this morning, I was very disappointed. I didn't expect him to be encouraging this stuff, but the just whimpering response was rough to hear.
I mean your definitely right, voting is the only absolute thing that can change the system. Things like these Dems calling for people to "calm down" is just so not what people want to hear from politicians right now. Especially given the current admins policies, their ideas need to be hit back with as much vitriol as they have for your average person. They don't give a fuck and we should give them passes when they are awful.
Wow I skipped to the conclusion and completely missed that. I guess it makes sense, since a lot of people vote on a whim and aren't married to their vote.
I'm not familiar with Waters (and I'm not american).
My only point was that "disruptive acts of moral justness" will rarely be celebrated by established authority, because it directly calls into question who, in this society, is fit to enact power onto other people.
I don't "have a dog in this fight"; just thought I should try to give some context as to why, even politicians on the left, very rarely will openly encourage actions that can be described as civil disobedience.
My comments was more about the structure of power. My aim was to give some context as to why allies in positions of political power often are reluctant to give a thumbs up to these kinds of things, the way you and I might, on a discussion forum.
Whether their actions are later seen as cowardice, or, in hindsight, a failure to properly act when the situation called for it, is another thing entirely.
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This is a good post
And yes I remain disappointed but most because the consequences are hitting unacceptable extremes or at least nearing a breaking point
Uh no, you fence sitting fucks. You can wring your hands and clutch your pearls, but we are still gonna give these children snatching fucks hell.
Sanders included.
Sanders included.
In other words, "Hey Bernie, what you gonna do about racism and police discrimination?"
"The top 1% of the 1%, what we need to do is fix income inequality."
"But racism..."
"The 1%!"
None of these 3 should have their jobs.
They are spineless cowards.
Go rot in cages like those kids and shut the fuck up forever. Give Trump supporters a hug on the way.
They are spineless cowards.
Go rot in cages like those kids and shut the fuck up forever. Give Trump supporters a hug on the way.
He really needs more nuance when he talks... He doesnt seem to deep dive into anything.. I worry he is too schooled on his messaging and script
He's not wrong though. Citizens United should be number one on our political hit list (after saving these kids) so that this fuckery doesnt happen again and people like Alexandria can continue to advocate for her constituents instead of spending the majority of her time fundraising
Great post, and this is the absolute reason why.
But their failure (The vast majority of the political body at large, since the boomers assumed power) at those positions lead to this very point, and to these very acts.
This is just the shape of things to come.
There should be no rules on non-violent protest and civil disobedience. It's sort of the definition. Disrupt the power structure to influence change.
I've brought it up twice since I came into the thread, the idea that a guy that pushed against the police and the system for change is now telling people to "calm down" is very troubling to me. He should be one of the loudest critics of what's going on and support the people who supported him, not other people in the Capitol.
Yes, the way the US is conducting itself is completely unsustainable, and it's remarkably self-destructive.
Even in the hypothetical of a 2-term Trump, his actual governance is currently actively hurting things that Republicans ostensibly care about.
Whatever this type of governance will ultimately be called, it simply can't sustain itself in the long run. That's not a comfort to anyone suffering through it though; nationally or otherwise.
Oh our days of leading the world are effectively over. They were sorta over the moment we overreacted to 9/11. Bin Laden won. :-(
It's a big part of the premise behind the first amendment, we as Americans are allowed to express our thoughts in a non-violent way without penalty. The fact that these three want the people to play nice and not express THEIR ACTUAL FEELINGS on the matters at hand is sick. If we are pissed off we are going to express our infuriation at the fuckers who are causing all the problems.
I don't know how I missed this thread, but yea. Also Hayes was coddling the fuck out of Bernie and he still whiffed.
Yelling in restaurants makes evil fucks think twice about boarding the train to fuck-you-ville.
It was only Sanders who seemingly said anything about SHS.
Unless there is more info buried in this thread the other 2 were defending Waters from Trump.
But do to a bad thread title and people not reading the actual op they are being conflated for being in the wrong like Sanders.
The problem is that Republicans have celebrated similar behavior. So when you say "politician", what you really mean is "democrat". That's ultimately the problem. Democrats get shit on and Republicans celebrate, Republicans get shit on and everybody calls for civility.
They're not even trying to think about where the line is when action and resistance is called for. They're not thinking at all.
WTF??
So she should be left alone as long as she has a fupa, but if she loses it then she is a OK target? Classic example of misogynist body-shaming and perhaps even rape culture.
It's not. But the fringes on both sides are using it to their advantage.
I got booted from House of Pies once. Where's my security detail?
No we do not. You don't counter concentration camps by politely asking them to please shut down.
Telling Sanders to leave WAS being polite. It could have been a lot worse.
"Boycotting the buses is bad idea. All those innocent people would lose jobs and the local economy. It'll only hurt the black folks."
-some white person, 1955
Civil protests are not anarchy.
You don't stop fascism by asking nicely.
The only effective time to make your voice heard is not every two or four years (this is the most dangerous idea)
Any society worth anything is able to handle some peaceful protests and not collapse into a fit.
I'm not american, and I weigh my words carefully, so no need to translate my original post back to me :).
My point was that the structure of political power on its highest level rarely encourage actual civil disobedience.
This is generally true for most countries, and could be an explanation for why prominent politicians - that you feel represents your concerns - are reluctant to publically applaud these acts (despite, perhaps, privately agreeing with them).
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I wish more people would realize this. She got to eat, and the owner asked the other employees what they thought. Sanders and Trump escalated this civil protest through their online actions.
I've still yet to see a single argument as to what this harassment will actually accomplish apart from further galvanize the assholes committing the atrocities in the first place.
The harassment is coming from the right harassing the restaurant.
Fringe on the left doing what exactly?
Wanting these kid prisons shut down? Asking their elected officials to be human beings?
If you gonna both sides this shit for real then show me.
I can both sides this pretty easily
https://www.google.com/amp/www.nyda...ee-red-hen-20180626-story.html?outputType=amp
I have yet to see any proof that you know what harrasment is.
Jesus fucking Christ.
Kids in prison. Normal.
Being politely asked to leave a business. Harrasment.
In only one case the owner was embraced by their party
It wasn't the democrats
I really find it difficult to suffer the "both sides" fallacy any more.
From what I've heard, they didn't even do that to SHS. The manager asked SHS to leave and both reached an understanding that that would happen. SHS blew the situation up on Twitter. Out of Nielsen, Miller and that woman in Florida (and Mitch and his wife), SHS got off clean as far as mockery and heckling was concerned. Yet they are pinning her as the biggest victim (she isn't even CLOSE).
I definitely wasn't trying to retranslate or be condescending in my post. Hope it didn't come off that way.
I understood your overall point and largely agree, however, I have a hard time defining a restaurant owner telling a customer that they were making the staff uncomfortable and might want to leave as "civil disobedience". This just feels like another attempt at taking "the high road" that will in fact prove pointless and self-defeating.
Ultimately I'm just disappointed but unsurprised. Gotta vent somewhere.
Sorry? The very first tweet in the OP is specifically addressing Waters' comments about harassment.
In any event you're presenting a false equivalence. In no way am I saying that getting kicked out of a restaurant or being harassed - again, per Maxine Waters - is equivalent to what's going on in the detention camps.
I'm asking how the former is going to positively impact the latter.
Getting in their face won't do as much as voting them out. However, I completely believe in bringing attention to the matter by having massive protests.
User Banned (Permanent): Junior account with a history of inflammatory political commentary + trolling
No he didn't forget but it's not like anyone but his specific supporters even cared.
Identity politics automatically ruled him an enemy for being a cis white male, gg any chance for real leftist policies he would have made and not be corrupted by corporate money.