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Bernie Sanders, Pelosi and Schumer Find Common Ground: SHS should be allowed to Dine in Peace
- Thread starter excelsiorlef
- Start date
No counter protesters are Red Hen is sobering
What happened there
Ok let's put it like this, Democrats will never ok whatever level you want this to be at.
What more influencial person other than Waters would have made it "ok"? Is there something particular about this elected representative that undermines her influence to you?
I don't need to be violent to do be "doing something." I'm at protests, I'm donating to causes that will help, I'm voting. I'm active in my community. To think that violence is the be-all-end-all of "signs shit is being done" is silly.
If Democrats think publicly talking to white supremacists and making them uncomfortable until they stop concentration camps is unacceptable then I want new Democrats.
I had no idea that there was a gay staff member. It makes a lot more sense why they would kick her out. And it definitely makes sense for members of marginalized groups to feel uncomfortable around people that promote further marginalization of their group. Good move by the restaurant.
I guess it was easy for me to disagree with the restaurant staff's decision on an online forum. I bet I would complain or leave angry if I saw her eating at the same place as me.
Regardless of anyone's interpretation of Waters' statement
leaving her out to dry in isolation like that was a bad fucking call
At the very least they could have used this as an opportunity to attack the cause of her emotional response to the far worse situations going on that need attention
Fucking ANYTHING to rally the base outside of telling us to fucking calm down
leaving her out to dry in isolation like that was a bad fucking call
At the very least they could have used this as an opportunity to attack the cause of her emotional response to the far worse situations going on that need attention
Fucking ANYTHING to rally the base outside of telling us to fucking calm down
Man it's no wonder the right can do whatever the fuck they want in America. Some of you guys really rather make excuses and do nothing while the right shit all over America and manipulate your passivity to their advantage.
Tbh Democrats are kind of a joke IMO. America needs more actual left politics, not center fencesitters than pretend to be left. The left in America has a big hole that needs to be occupied IMO.
Tbh Democrats are kind of a joke IMO. America needs more actual left politics, not center fencesitters than pretend to be left. The left in America has a big hole that needs to be occupied IMO.
Yeah. Not like they're battleground seats either. Bernie is gonna be a senator until he croaks or retires.
Besides the fact that I never heard of her until this moment. Which leads me to believe only people who really follow politics would know who she is, when you want the message to resonate with people like myself you find someone with more name recognition for the general masses.
I still had to reference the front page to remember her name and I'll probably forget it 2 hours from now. Oddly enough, the people who spoke against this in the OP are Democrats I would consider having more household name recognition.
Makes me wonder how thin the line is between protest and harassment and how much of it is a matter of semantic based on who defines them incident by incident.
IIRC, last year, the white supremacist and fascist, Richard Spencer got punched in the face and there was similar talk back then. People need to be careful and understand the context before falling on swords defending the Nazi and Nazi-lite because, "civility". Heck, if we were all civil all time, there'd still be slaves and we'd be speaking German as long as you were not a jew or non-white.
The incumbent democrats are all about platitudes, taking big corporate money and preaching civility in the face of eroding democracy, discriminating policies, gutting social security programs and alienating allies.
IIRC, last year, the white supremacist and fascist, Richard Spencer got punched in the face and there was similar talk back then. People need to be careful and understand the context before falling on swords defending the Nazi and Nazi-lite because, "civility". Heck, if we were all civil all time, there'd still be slaves and we'd be speaking German as long as you were not a jew or non-white.
The incumbent democrats are all about platitudes, taking big corporate money and preaching civility in the face of eroding democracy, discriminating policies, gutting social security programs and alienating allies.
Spot on. If party leadership fails to recognize our sentiment we'll just get more pissed off since convential political avenues have failed us. I'm not advocating for violence, I am saying that you'll see more actual protesting occur which the media has castigated as forbidden because they're wealthy, compassionless fucks.
There's a key difference between those three Democrats and Waters. I'll give you time to spot it. Perhaps you should be more open to her message considering she understands bigotry better than any of them.
It's not a valid political view. And it's certainly not worth defending. The problem is that someone like Sarah Sanders would never even acknowledge that her political views and the shit that she defends and promotes includes discrimination against marginalized groups. I have always felt that exposing someone like Sanders to the people she might be hurting would help change thier views. But deep down I know this is not true. I know it's naive optimism.
Y'all really quick to cape for facists over a free meal.
Ya know, I guess you all really are the true progressives.
If this is who I have on my "side" in a culture war.... Shit... Might as well find me a maga hat. Like goddamn.
At least those fuckers have no qualms and no issues fighting for what they want...
Ya know, I guess you all really are the true progressives.
If this is who I have on my "side" in a culture war.... Shit... Might as well find me a maga hat. Like goddamn.
At least those fuckers have no qualms and no issues fighting for what they want...
Yeah I see you keep trying to steer it back to that, you were pretty transparent with that in your initial reply. End of the day she is not a household name, which is where I was going.
End of the day it was wrong, I can say that while still condemning what happened at the border.
Transparent as to what? A black woman is more openly opposed to bigotry than white party leaders. It was their job to support her and they failed. That doesn't mean she's wrong, it means they are comfortable and myopic.
But just don't do anything to rock the boat right?
Better to have that peace without conflict than that presence of justice.
This needs to be the next meme. Start posting all the movies and games with characters saying they will remain civil.
Like for people to be so unaware of history yet consume all this media that runs counter to their actual beliefs
You're being vague, what do you consider rocking the boat and conflict.
For all I know I may agree with you. When I think conflict my mind immediately goes to violence
I am not, nor would I ever, defend anything Sarah Sanders' believes or stands for. Nothing I said was a defense of her as a person.
However, I do believe *everyone* has the right to not face discrimination because of who they are and what they believe, and that includes despicable people like Sanders. We aren't talking about her sharing her beliefs or whether they are worth hearing, we are talking about whether she is permissed to merely exist and operate within our society without being marginalized and segregated.
The base is already rallied, there are actually important issues to be excited about. I doubt many people are saying "oh wow, democrats aren't cosigning being a dick. I guess I'm staying home." This story...does not fucking matter on that level. It's not a winning issue, it's not a losing issue. Who cares.
And frankly if someone decides to not vote because of this, good riddance.
Racists don't deserve peace. People like you allow them to thrive.
See, I don't get this. Suddenly it makes sense if it's a gay person that was uncomfortable, as if a gay person is the only person who should be allowed to based on what the staff said. Reminds me of when Trump said grab them by the pussy and suddenly every republican was like, "I have a daughter/wife/sister/aunt/niece and I wouldn't want her to be subjected to such reprehensible behavior and language."
You don't need to be related to a woman to know that Trump's behavior and statements were terrible then. You don't need to know a gay person to know that what this administration is doing is awful. You don't need to be involved at all personally with any of the groups this administration attacks to be willing to act against them. All you need is to empathy.
We are long past, "beliefs" and deeply into the territory of "action" by being the mouthpiece and defender of a lying, bigoted, racist piece of Trash.
The laws about protected class exists in US because discrimination is prohibited against people for they are born, the religion and ethnicity they're born into. People belonging to these classes do not actively try and sabotage the lives of others or do so by the virtue of their existence. SHS does not remotely fit into that category. She is free to spout the lies of the administration and stand behind the liar in charge. That doesn't mean that there won't be any consequences for said actions.
Trying to fall on sword for her right to do whatever she wants bereft of consequences for her current and ongoing actions is tantamount to defending the rights of a Nazi sympathizer.
"Their role in politics" what a fucking joke. She and this administration don't hold valid political positions that should be defended. I've said it before and I'll say it again, being a politician doesn't mean at any point you're off the clock. There are no office hours. People who she and her boss are directly attacking (yes, attacking) shouldn't have to serve her because of civility, or because they disagree on "politics". You don't need to be civil to those who don't want you to exist.
Nothing I'm saying precludes me from thinking she shouldn't face consequences. We should have a political uprising, we should see her and the sect of the right Trump is benefitting from snuffed from existence and any chance of her voice being elevated gone. Harassment and bullying is not the answer. It's entrenching views and driving more to their ranks. They do not thrive on normalcy, they thrive on disorder.
Now, if you want to get cynical, I, as well as I'm sure you, have no faith that will happen. We've spent the last decade with every shamed advisor of Bush slowing raising back to prominence and seen Bill Clinton's voice continue to a prominent one. This is all bad. Fuck that. But this is where our energy should go, stifling these voices by first defeating them politically and then letting them yell into the void without a microphone for the rest of their miserable existence. Not by prohibiting them from society et all.
It's still funny seeing people pretend anyone in America ever got rights or escaped oppression simply by asking nicely. Black people marched and conducted sit ins as leadership was assassinated. Anti war protestors were gunned down on college campuses. Trans women of color threw bricks at police after being arrested just for existing. Women suffragists went on hunger strikes, starving themselves in the prison cells they were being held in.
I'd love to see examples of times when civility accomplished anything except a further cementing of the status quo. Calling for calm just shows ignorance of what our country is and always has been. Only certain kinds of people can afford to exist in that much denial without putting themselves at risk. A few years ago you might have pointed to Obama as proof that things can be accomplished rationally, but the blowback makes it obvious we were wrong as hell.
I'd love to see examples of times when civility accomplished anything except a further cementing of the status quo. Calling for calm just shows ignorance of what our country is and always has been. Only certain kinds of people can afford to exist in that much denial without putting themselves at risk. A few years ago you might have pointed to Obama as proof that things can be accomplished rationally, but the blowback makes it obvious we were wrong as hell.
u can tell deplatforming and throwing out trumpies works because its been days and theyre still filling their diapers over it when nothing else sticks for more then one news cycle. Do more
It's so frustrating that our cultural understanding of history is so mindnumbingly misguided.
What is it with this shit? Why do all of the "new democrats" or whatever you all are calling yourselves have this mindset that it's "all or nothing" or "our way or the highway" like, do you all not see the actual big picture? This short sighted bullshit has already cost enough and set the country back decades. Harassing people at restaurants or in public isn't gonna do shit except further their cause and make it open season on all politicians. They are laughing their asses off right now. No one is talking about immigration or other issues now. Who gives a crap if Pelosi and Schumer didn't back Waters. They have a responsibility to say it's not right because it could escalate and people will ultimately get hurt. Blame Waters for putting them in that situation. You all know Waters has gone against the party herself many times and trashed Obama. Who gives a shit? Point is there are a lot of crazies out there wanting shit to get worse because these fuckers are going down. That's why Kennedy retired now. After midterms, there's no guarantee that Trump would be able to fill that seat. So maybe all the old and out of touch people who lived through this before know more than we think. Maybe we ought to listen to them and not rock the boat when so much is on the line. Not rocking the boat probably would have saved us from Trump and secured SCOTUS for decades... but those damn establishment dems, wall street, etc etc.
OP
OP
that's dopey ass shit. learn how to break up a paragraph too. smfh
I'm gonna listen to my grandmother. A black woman who grew up during the civil rights era.
Or did you mean old white people?
They also focus on the wrong things. Instead of saying HOW TERRIBLE it is people are jeering politicians, they don't stop to realize WHAT LEAD US TO THIS MOMENT. Why is this happening? Can they truly understand, because even if they say, "Yeah, I know, but...", just the way they quickly change focus with that "but" shows me it really isn't sinking in to their thick skulls. They don't empathize with the shit we're going through. They can't even TRY to put themselves in our shoes. Their comfort and status quo is too important. Tis the bullshit we've been dealing with for centuries.
Or the mere fact that the establishment has ALWAYS resisted change that is retroactively supported.
People want to misunderstand history. The people who aren't overly disadvantaged want a safe and stable society where "politics" is just polite disagreements between gentlemen. A bit of joshing between old chums.
They don't want to accept the reality that society's progress has always been a real battle and it gets ugly. As that naturally implies that any further progress might require someone to actually stick their neck out.
They don't want to accept the reality that society's progress has always been a real battle and it gets ugly. As that naturally implies that any further progress might require someone to actually stick their neck out.
I'm confused. You're mocking people for being obsessed with wall street and establishment while saying you agree with the recommended approach of Bernie Sanders?
And if you seriously think nobody is still talking about immigration, I don't know what to tell you. Maybe tune in to the nationwide protests planned for this Saturday. Or is that too much boat rocking too?
He has been before; that's why this is his stance.
One of the things James Loewen talks about in Lies My Teacher Told Me is how we teach American history as a constant progression forward -- seldom acknowledging the times when we backslid -- because less complicated answers are more appealing and easier to test on. As an example, he mentions that professional baseball was segregated, then integrated, then segregated again, then re-integrated. Most people, myself included before reading this, don't know that. We think it was bad, then it was fixed. That kind of simplicity suggests far less struggle than was certainly the reality and a landscape where the world is ever improving. Nothing ever gets worse, or at least it didn't in the past. Now we know that sometimes things are difficult, complicated, and can get worse. That's not how we envision the past, so we are certain that everything about now is worse because "worse" is even an option.
That distorted and simplified view of the past makes it easy to question the complexity of now. Before things were easy and they had clearly defined right and wrong. Things were fixed and they remained that way. This idealized perspective on our past makes it even easier to bemoan our present without ever taking the action required to improve it, because we don't realize such action has always been required.
Seems clear as day to me that some people WANT Democrats to keep believing this. They'll just keep on racking up the wins while being absolutely the worst of people because apparently that's what Americans want. Democrats with their tails between their legs and letting Republicans walk all over them, while Americans vote for the bullies and the blatant.
You got about three views of Democrats in America. The evil. Well you aren't winning them anyway. The weak and easy targets for Republicans. We can win them over with some actual spunk. And then the people that actually see the Democrats as the party of the people.
Nobody in this thread is going to get through to you about how wrong you are, which only highlights how impossible it is to get through to anyone outside our sphere.
I hope this realization isn't lost on any of you. We're never going to win because we can't even convince ourselves of what needs to be done.
Can someone draw a picture of a sinking ship with a bunch of people running around with buckets trying to get the water out, and a man standing in the middle of all of them shouting at them to "stop rocking the boat"?
Everything we do to counterattack is wrong, whether peaceful or disruptive.
At some point we'll learn to stop giving a shit, but by then it'll be too late. It's already too late.