ERA, are any of you considering leaving the US now?

shounenka · Jun 28, 2018

MistaTwo said:
I hoped to time it for when my eldest son entered middle school, as I think that's the point where most Japanese schools go to shit.

This was a issue for me as well (wanted to ensure my daughter had native English to complement her native Japanese, so we contemplated a temporary move back), but we just decided to bite the bullet and pay for her to get an English education here rather that compromise our lifestyle.

MistaTwo said:
I just decided to apply for Permanent Residency here (fingers crossed!) and am looking to just buy a house in Osaka.

Good luck with both.
Having the red passport helped me out immensely with the latter. PR would have sufficed too I'm sure.

Shauni · Jun 28, 2018

entremet said:
What about those who can't afford to leave? Gotta fight for our less privileged brethren too. They're also the most vulnerable.

Man, what happened to the West? We've become so weak and spineless without any real opposition.

What would you say to those who fleed Nazi Germany before the final takeover? Weak spineless? Especially the Jews who left?

Shauni · Jun 28, 2018

PBalfredo said:
What's grinding my gears is we're setting up to ride the blue wave but then I look here and see people who would rather abandon ship. Conservatives at least always stay, and we've seen their patience pay off. Lesson's lost on us, I guess.

Because you're thinking short-term, and a lot of others are thinking long-term.

TheGreatMightyPoo · Jun 28, 2018

Lol, no.

MistaTwo · Jun 28, 2018

shounenka said:
This was a issue for me as well (wanted to ensure my daughter had native English to complement her native Japanese, so we contemplated a temporary move back), but we just decided to bite the bullet and pay for her to get an English education here rather that compromise our lifestyle.

Yeah, I am a bit worried about this as well. My wife mostly uses Japanese in the house, so our kid's English exposure is limited as work keeps me from spending too much time with them outside of the weekends.
My wife and I also fall into the habit of speaking to each other in Japanese too often. Need to break that habit...

My son can understand my English fairly well at this point, but still doesn't speak it at all outside of simple phrases.
Probably going to start putting him in an English program as well in the next year or so just like you decided to. Hopefully it's not too late at that point.

PBalfredo · Jun 28, 2018

Shauni said:
Because you're thinking short-term, and a lot of others are thinking long-term.

Only if you think packing up and moving is a long term solution to right-wing parties on the rise everywhere.

gogosox82 · Jun 28, 2018

No. Besides being expensive as shit. I'm comfortable here and all my friends and family are here and I'd have to get accustomed to a new country with a totally different culture, laws, customs, etc. I mean, I'm thinking of moving out of the state I currently live because its been shit for years and I see no sign of it getting better only worse but a new country? Nah.

Shauni · Jun 28, 2018

PBalfredo said:
Only if you think packing up and moving is a long term solution to right-wing parties on the rise everywhere.

We're not talking about everywhere, we're talking about the United States.

MistaTwo · Jun 28, 2018

Can we also please stop equating leaving the country with giving up completely?

Ya'll do realize that it's totally possible to vote in elections from outside the country, right?

Hypron · Jun 28, 2018

PBalfredo said:
Only if you think packing up and moving is a long term solution to right-wing parties on the rise everywhere.

Not everywhere for starters (see NZ for example), and not all countries have governments as dysfunctional as the US.

MistaTwo said:
Can we also please stop equating leaving the country with giving up completely?

Ya'll do realize that it's totally possible to vote in elections from outside the country, right?

This too. I'm still voting in French elections and I haven't set foot in the country in more than 7 years.

Shauni · Jun 28, 2018

MistaTwo said:
Can we also please stop equating leaving the country with giving up completely?

Ya'll do realize that it's totally possible to vote in elections from outside the country, right?

Yep, I'm in Korea now and I donate more than I'm guessing a lot of these super patriots lol

entremet · Jun 28, 2018

Shauni said:
What would you say to those who fleed Nazi Germany before the final takeover? Weak spineless? Especially the Jews who left?

Not comparable. At least in this state yet.

My beef isn't people leaving per se, but the general discussion, especially with liberals, is when there is opposition or setbacks to want to leave instead of mounting a strong offense. Where's the fighting spirit?

What about the vulnerable minorities communities that are left in country? Are we just gonna abandon them en masse as a liberal movement?

The Mad Mango · Jun 28, 2018

PlanetSmasher said:
The blue wave can't do shit. The damage is too deep, too systemic, and will last long after Trump is dead or out of office. Meanwhile we'll get a few years of increased Democratic power that'll all be undone the next time a Republican takes office and we'll be right back here again. There's no point in fighting anymore - the mask finally slipped and the true face of America has been revealed.

Trump lost the popular vote. Bush lost the popular vote. And Democrats are increasingly realizing that bipartisanship is a loser's game. We all saw how little was accomplished by Obama reaching across the aisle, noble as his intentions were. I'd like to think we won't make the same mistake again. Next time the Dems are in power, I think there's a decent chance that the electoral college might be dismantled. And hopefully that's just the tip of the iceberg for the sweeping changes to come.

Ocasio-Cortez's win gives me a lot of hope. It sure doesn't feel like there's no point in fighting anymore.

entremet · Jun 28, 2018

MistaTwo said:
Can we also please stop equating leaving the country with giving up completely?

Ya'll do realize that it's totally possible to vote in elections from outside the country, right?

True.

However, my issue is that anytime liberals are defeated policy wise, these conversation happen. It's getting old. The GOP has mastered the long game and we still can't turn out for midterms.

If liberals would just turn out for midterms would be in such different spot now. I'm not talking about protesting, riots, or anything like that.

It's not some crazy revolutionarily thing to ask for, just vote in midterms, vote locally. But like clockwork, a big GOP policy passes--let's get outta of the country. And doom and gloom. I'm just tired of the complaining when there are pragmatic solutions out there.

Shauni · Jun 28, 2018

entremet said:
Not comparable. At least in this state yet.

Keyword: yet.

A lot of people who feel this way feel the same writing is on the wall that was in Nazi Germany before the final takeover.

My beef isn't people leaving per se, but the general discussion, especially with liberals, is when there is opposition or setbacks to want to leave instead of mounting a strong offense. Where's the fighting spirit?

What about the vulnerable minorities communities that are left in country? Are we just gonna abandon them en masse as a liberal movement?

I think most people who feel this way feel either that the fight is already lost or fruitless.

PlanetSmasher · Jun 28, 2018

The Mad Mango said:
Trump lost the popular vote. Bush lost the popular vote. And Democrats are increasingly realizing that bipartisanship is a loser's game. We all saw how little was accomplished by Obama reaching across the aisle, noble as his intentions were. I'd like to think we won't make the same mistake again. Next time the Dems are in power, I think there's a decent chance that the electoral college might be dismantled. And hopefully that's just the tip of the iceberg for the sweeping changes to come.

Ocasio-Cortez's win gives me a lot of hope. It sure doesn't feel like there's no point in fighting anymore.

The only way I'm having any faith in the Democrats again is when all the pathetic, capitulating old white men and women are gone. They had every opportunity to step up for us and they failed, over and over again, while simultaneously begging for money in my inbox every three hours.

When the next generation of Democrats steps up and proves they have a spine, things might change. But the current incarnation of the party is too weak and too spineless to be worth a damn.

Shauni · Jun 28, 2018

entremet said:
True.

However, my issue is that anytime liberals are defeated policy wise, these conversation happen. It's getting old. The GOP has mastered the long game and we still can't turn out for midterms.

If liberals would just turn out for midterms would be in such different spot now. I'm not talking about protesting, riots, or anything like that.

It's not some crazy revolutionarily thing to ask for, just vote in midterms, vote locally. But like clockwork, a big GOP policy passes--let's get outta of the country. And doom and gloom.

Short-term thinking. What about in the long-term when an even more radical GOP is eventually given power?

And you know, let's nip this in the bud, too, this isn't about some single policy that has been passed. This is about a series of multiple things that has happened and the things people are seeing for the future based on that. You're being incredibly disingenuous in your argument here.

entremet · Jun 28, 2018

Shauni said:
Short-term thinking. What about in the long-term when an even more radical GOP is eventually given power?

And you know, let's nip this in the bud, too, this isn't about some single policy that has been passed. This is about a series of multiple things that has happened and the things people are seeing for the future based on that. You're being incredibly disingenuous in your argument here.

Those series of things that have passed were decades in the making as well. Again, the GOP hasn't given up, why should we?

It was only ten years ago when Obama had the House and Senate and passed the ACA. Dems got complacent again with the turnout and then we were given McConnell and Ryan to do damage.

DarthSpider · Jun 28, 2018

PBalfredo said:
What's grinding my gears is we're setting up to ride the blue wave but then I look here and see people who would rather abandon ship. Conservatives at least always stay, and we've seen their patience pay off. Lesson's lost on us, I guess.

Let me tell you about a strange and magical thing some people like to call an "absentee ballot." It's gonna blow your mind my friend.

Shauni · Jun 28, 2018

entremet said:
Those series of things that have passed were decades in the making as well. Again, the GOP hasn't given up, why should we?

Because they won due to those decades in the making. There's no reason for them to leave because they are getting what they want. Poorly thought out question there lol

It was only ten years ago when Obama had the House and Senate and passed the ACA. Dems got complacent again with the turnout and then we were given McConnell and Ryan to do damage.

And...? Doesn't really address anything I said. It's not like this back and forth politics is some new engima.

Xiaomi · Jun 28, 2018

Kisaya said:
I might get one of those TEFL certifications just in case. Otherwise I don't really have the luxury of just leaving.

I missed this post earlier, but make sure you understand what you're getting with this. If you want to work full-time in a school in Asia, for example, and live relatively comfortably, you'll need a US teaching license of some sort. A TEFL license will usually only get you a cram school tutor job with erratic hours.

entremet · Jun 28, 2018

Shauni said:
Because they won due to those decades in the making. There's no reason for them to leave because they are getting what they want. Poorly thought out question there lol

And...? Doesn't really address anything I said. It's not like this back and forth politics is some new engima.

I'm not saying they will leave lol. I'm saying they've been successful because they focus on the long game, something Democrats should do. We're are not the best strategic thinkers.

Even so, we're still talking about the federal government here. Local politics are massively influentially.

brochiller · Jun 28, 2018

I moved to Canada 2 years ago but part of me wishes I was still there to fight the bullshit that's happening. I don't want to just run away because things aren't going my way now.

random51 · Jun 28, 2018

My day to day life hasn't changed an iota with Trump in office other than being alternately amused and appalled by what I read in the news every other day.

I do get a kick out of people thinking that the GOP is the problem. They're not the problem, they're a symptom.

The Mad Mango · Jun 28, 2018

entremet said:
Those series of things that have passed were decades in the making as well. Again, the GOP hasn't given up, why should we?

It was only ten years ago when Obama had the House and Senate and passed the ACA. Dems got complacent again with the turnout and then we were given McConnell and Ryan to do damage.

In fairness, the GOP has far fewer marginalized members. And where would Republicans even move to? Their entire identity is based around American exceptionalism.

Shauni · Jun 28, 2018

entremet said:
I'm not saying they will leave lol. I'm saying they've been successful because they focus on the long game, something Democrats should do. We're are not the best strategic thinkers.

Yeah, and you're demonstrating that, you can't seem to even process a time when the GOP will have power again after a blue wave that hasn't even happened yet.

But it's hard to play the long game when you're shut off the field.

Nothing Loud · Jun 28, 2018

random51 said:
My day to day life hasn't changed an iota with Trump in office other than being alternately amused and appalled by what I read in the news every other day.

I do get a kick out of people thinking that the GOP is the problem. They're not the problem, they're a symptom.

It's cyclical. They're a symptom of a problem they caused. People vote against their interests because they're gerrymandered or kept dumb by bad republican policies.

PBalfredo · Jun 28, 2018

MistaTwo said:
Can we also please stop equating leaving the country with giving up completely?

Ya'll do realize that it's totally possible to vote in elections from outside the country, right?

Turnout within the country is shit as it is, I don't have any faith in those outside the country being any better, especially with local elections. For most people it's out of sight, out of mind.

Also, you can't protest in absence. Even the most well-meaning of expats can't march with the rest of us.

mewmedic · Jun 28, 2018

I think whoever would be in charge of handing out green cards would just scoff when they see all the student debt I owe. How the hell do you just move to another continent? How do you buy a house there, find a job, ect?

dc3k · Jun 28, 2018

Yes. I can pick up and bail out at any time. But at the moment I'm making very very good money, so I'm putting up with this shithole for another couple of years.

DarthSpider · Jun 28, 2018

Xiaomi said:
I missed this post earlier, but make sure you understand what you're getting with this. If you want to work full-time in a school in Asia, for example, and live relatively comfortably, you'll need a US teaching license of some sort. A TEFL license will usually only get you a cram school tutor job with erratic hours.

This is mostly true, but it's possible to get by without one. I just got tenure at a private girl's school in Hiroshima, making about 6mil a year (including bonuses) and I don't have a masters or a teaching license in the US. I think it's getting a lot easier for foreigners to find permanent gigs in Japan. My prefecture also has a track for JETs who want to stay in Japan full-time jobs with the same pay scale as Japanese teachers. It's called the Global Initiative program.

Shauni · Jun 28, 2018

PBalfredo said:
Turnout within the country is shit as it is, I don't have any faith in those outside the country being any better, especially with local elections. For most people it's out of sight, out of mind.

Glad you speak for every expat out there lol

Xiaomi said:
I missed this post earlier, but make sure you understand what you're getting with this. If you want to work full-time in a school in Asia, for example, and live relatively comfortably, you'll need a US teaching license of some sort. A TEFL license will usually only get you a cram school tutor job with erratic hours.

Where are you getting this? I teach ESL and have never seen a requirement for a US teaching license at either a public or private place, at least in Asia

entremet · Jun 28, 2018

Shauni said:
Yeah, and you're demonstrating that, you can't seem to even process a time when the GOP will have power again after a blue wave that hasn't even happened yet.

But it's hard to play the long game when you're shut off the field.

Of course the GOP will have power again. Same with right wing parties gaining power in Europe as well. Are you expecting some utopia or something? Look at history. It just seems your outlook is one of doom and gloom, where the GOP is some invincible dragon.

The entire West will continue to be threatened by Right Wing populism. What's your strategy? Just to move to a place not affected by this?

Even rising star global darlings like China are going back to more autocratic tendencies with ending terms limits for their current President.

Shauni · Jun 28, 2018

DarthSpider said:
This is mostly true, but it's possible to get by without one. I just got tenure at a private girl's school in Hiroshima, making about 6mil a year (including bonuses) and I don't have a masters or a teaching license in the US. I think it's getting a lot easier for foreigners to find permanent gigs in Japan. My prefecture also has a track for JETs who want to stay in Japan full-time jobs with the same pay scale as Japanese teachers. It's called the Global Initiative program.

I don't think it is. I don't know about Japan, but I have not seen an Asian ESL posting that requires this

the_bromo_tachi · Jun 28, 2018

I'm already out. Though I miss my family and friends dearly, I don't think I'll ever go back. Sometimes the tech job offers I get from America does seem enticing at times, I just remember what's going on in America and decline.(plus, I bet the rent is way too high and most of the money will be going towards that)

gaogaogao · Jun 28, 2018

Squarehard said:
I have the luxury of dual citizenship, so luckily I can hightail it out of here if I really needed to.

.

Deleted member 176 · Jun 28, 2018

entremet said:
Of course the GOP will have power again. Same with right wing parties gaining power in Europe as well. Are you expecting some utopia or something? Look at history. It just seems your outlook is one of doom and gloom, where the GOP is some invincible dragon.

The entire West will continue to be threatened by Right Wing populism. What's your strategy? Just to move to a place not affected by this?

How about a place being threatened by right wing populism where there aren't regular mass shootings

Shauni · Jun 28, 2018

entremet said:
Of course the GOP will have power again. Same with right wing parties gaining power in Europe as well. Are you expecting some utopia or something? Look at history. It just seems your outlook is one of doom and gloom, where the GOP is some invincible dragon.

The entire West will continue to be threatened by Right Wing populism. What's your strategy? Just to move to a place not affected by this?

Moving goalposts. We're talking about the US, not other countries. No one said anything about moving to a Utopia, this is just something you guys throw out there to paint those who are fearful disingenuously. I'll stick to talking about the US

Xiaomi · Jun 28, 2018

Shauni said:
Where are you getting this? I teach ESL and have never seen a requirement for a US teaching license at either a public or private place, at least in Asia

It's this way in Taiwan; they're cracking down on it a lot at international schools. They wanna see a credential from an overseas school for new hires. I got in with a provisional license that expires in 2023 before they changed the policy a couple years ago, but I'll have to get that upgraded to a permanent license in the next year or two just to be safe.

Jpop · Jun 28, 2018

entremet said:
Not comparable. At least in this state yet.

My beef isn't people leaving per se, but the general discussion, especially with liberals, is when there is opposition or setbacks to want to leave instead of mounting a strong offense. Where's the fighting spirit?

What about the vulnerable minorities communities that are left in country? Are we just gonna abandon them en masse as a liberal movement?

What makes you think that liberal minorities, who are most affected, are not the ones who are thinking of leaving the country?

I'm half Arab, I was in second grade when 9/11 happened, I grew up in Texas.

I am seeing radicalization, dehumanization, and oppression of minorities much worse than what happened back then.

Do I want to leave, no. Do I feel that I am better off leaving the country, yes.

Deleted member 274 · Jun 28, 2018

I'm very very close to doing this. Some of my family has already done it

Shauni · Jun 28, 2018

Xiaomi said:
It's this way in Taiwan; they're cracking down on it a lot at international schools. They wanna see a credential from an overseas school for new hires. I got in with a provisional license that expires in 2023 before they changed the policy a couple years ago, but I'll have to get that upgraded to a permanent license in the next year or two just to be safe.

Not familiar with Taiwan, but I don't think this is really a standard yet elsewhere. At least not from what I've seen

DarthSpider · Jun 28, 2018

Shauni said:
I don't think it is. I don't know about Japan, but I have not seen an Asian ESL posting that requires this

It certainly used to be in my area. In the past, in Hiroshima City, you couldn't get a private school gig without either a masters or TESL cert or license in your home country. This was maybe 10 years ago. I can't speak for the entire country though.

Nowadays, because of the speaking requirement for uni entrance exams starting in 2020, they're giving out "special licenses" like candy. Those special licenses are almost exactly the same as the Type 1 licenses that Japanese teachers get. Renewable every 10 years until retirement. In think the laws changed in 2012 and made it much easier for schools to give them out.

Deleted member 15933 · Jun 28, 2018

Switch Back 9 said:
A lot of y'all still defend Black Pete in 2018.

Literal whataboutism. One shitty thing vs literal child concentration camps. Also, I am not a black person myself, but I'd rather endure that consequence free silly play once a year vs the constant prospect of being shot by the literal law enforcement .

I am not of the opinion that a 'liberal life' is now impossible in the US, but Western Europe is simply more advanced than the American average, that's really not up to discussion anymore.

Mortemis · Jun 28, 2018

My parents left a war torn state to raise me and my siblings here in America, and we're so much more well off than we would've been back home. But there's also looking out for yourself and always trying to improve, so yeah if I had the opportunity it'd be great to go experience another well off country.

I doubt I'd permanently leave here though. I've been thinking of possibly doing my masters overseas, that'd be fun. Maybe if my home country improved, would love to help build something nice there.

Deleted member 13496 · Jun 28, 2018

Berry Phazon said:
Literal whataboutism. One shitty thing vs literal child concentration camps. Also, I am not a black person myself, but I'd rather endure that consequence free silly play once a year vs vs the constaunt prospect of being shot.

I am not of the opinion that a 'liberal life' is now impossible in the US, but Western Europe is simply more advanced than the American average, that's really not up to discussion anymore.

Sure it is. I'm just saying that for a black person to move to a place where they parade around a slave character in blackface every Christmas and try to act like "it's just tradition" they might feel just a bit uncomfortable, and maybe you guys aren't as amazing and progressive as you want to think.

The fact that you're not black and simply brush it off as "consequence free silly play" just supports that fact.

Is it better than getting shot and killed by the police for no reason? Definitely, no argument there. But your country also has a massive history of racism and oppression and, while perhaps not maliciously, still celebrate that every single year.

Shauni · Jun 28, 2018

DarthSpider said:
It certainly used to be in my area. In the past, in Hiroshima City, you couldn't get a private school gig without either a masters or TESL cert or license in your home country. This was maybe 10 years ago. I can't speak for the entire country though.

Nowadays, because of the speaking requirement for uni entrance exams starting in 2020, they're giving out "special licenses" like candy. Those special licenses are almost exactly the same as the Type 1 licenses that Japanese teachers get. Renewable every 10 years until retirement. In think the laws changed in 2012 and made it much easier for schools to give them out.

You say or, so was either/or or needed a of them? I've seen a lot of listening that were like that, like a master's or a TEFL or a US certificate. Never can recall one where you literally needed all three. But like I said, not looked a lot into Japan

lingpanda · Jun 28, 2018

Absolutely not.

Deleted member 15933 · Jun 28, 2018

Switch Back 9 said:
Sure it is. I'm just saying that for a black person to move to a place where they parade around a slave character in blackface every Christmas and try to act like "it's just tradition" they might feel just a bit uncomfortable, and maybe you guys aren't as amazing and progressive as you want to think.

That is a comical logical fallacy right there: yeah, we shoot the black folks regularly here scott-free, but you paint your face black on one day per year, so let's call it even.
Also, I'm not Dutch, so Germany wins it all according to you, or what?

DarthSpider · Jun 28, 2018

Shauni said:
You say or, so was either/or or needed a of them? I've seen a lot of listening that were like that, like a master's or a TEFL or a US certificate. Never can recall one where you literally needed all three. But like I said, not looked a lot into Japan

Not all three. Just any one of the above.

ERA, are any of you considering leaving the US now?

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