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Madison

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,388
Lima, Peru
Making it so they're too ashamed to admit to it in public

Can this even work in a world where far right nationalist movements are picking up speed all over the world? I get that allowing them a platform is what helps their ideas spread around but sometimes I have doubts that just taking away their platforms is enough to take them down.
 

Alimnassor

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
773
Fuck him. The only way to combat them is defeat them and win. I've long since stated my unpopular belief we need to go Big Brother on these people. Instead of Big Brothering Muslims and Blacks why not root out White Supremacists and Neo Nazis?

He's literally talking about what transformed him and got him out of it. He's not just theorizing.

Nobody cares. he's trying to convert people. Once a nazi always a nazi. You people are falling hook. line and sinker for him. Yes, he's so "reformed" that he went to make an AMA telling them that they're misunderstood an d should be loved. Who believes that shit?
 

RoyaleDuke

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,397
Nowhere
Fuck him. The only way to combat them is defeat them and win. I've long since stated my unpopular belief we need to go Big Brother on these people. Instead of Big Brothering Muslims and Blacks why not root out White Supremacists and Neo Nazis?



Nobody cares. he's trying to convert people. Once a nazi always a nazi. You people are falling hook. line and sinker for him. Yes, he's so "reformed" that he went to make an AMA telling them that they're misunderstood an d should be loved. Who believes that shit?

Fools and people working for them believe that shit.

As for me I'm not about it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
16,738
The problem with this is it frames the white supremacist as the victim. And what's being advocated is that black people or whomever be the therapist. Sit there listen to them and say. "I understand how you feel, but..."

Nah don't expect us to pat you on the back and hug you.
 

Bakercat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,154
'merica

Rayne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,634
It's not about being a doormat. It's about showing them humanity.

Armies try hard to dehumanize their enemies, because it makes them easier to kill. Most people naturally have a lot of difficulty killing someone that they feel is like themselves.

So some brave people take the time to challenge these extremists' perceptions. They see that a muslim woman is just a normal human like everyone else, and they find it hard to hate them. Sometimes it turns them away from extremism and helps make this world a better place. This is his story.

If you don't want to do that, don't. No one is really asking you to. But why put people down that are doing nothing but positive things?

Man that must be nice. To be able to get kid gloves even when you're treating other people like shit.

I put those people down when they talk down to people who are actually being attacked and telling them how to behave meanwhile that judgement is absent when it comes to the actual problem.

Can this even work in a world where far right nationalist movements are picking up speed all over the world? I get that allowing them a platform is what helps their ideas spread around but sometimes I have doubts that just taking away their platforms is enough to take them down.

It could work if more people were willing to call them out on their shit instead of sitting there because it doesn't effect them and they don't want to rock the boat. Instead it's brushed off and the people who call it out are called hysterical.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
Fuck him. The only way to combat them is defeat them and win. I've long since stated my unpopular belief we need to go Big Brother on these people. Instead of Big Brothering Muslims and Blacks why not root out White Supremacists and Neo Nazis?



Nobody cares. he's trying to convert people. Once a nazi always a nazi. You people are falling hook. line and sinker for him. Yes, he's so "reformed" that he went to make an AMA telling them that they're misunderstood an d should be loved. Who believes that shit?
That's not what's he saying at all. Like this isn't the first time this has happened in the history of mankind. There have been examples of reformed cult members/gang members/ISIS/neo-nazis for years, we've seen that de-radicalization is very effective in working with young Muslims
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,652
The problem with this is it frames the white supremacist as the victim. And what's being advocated is that black people or whomever be the therapist. Sit there listen to them and say. "I understand how you feel, but..."

Nah don't expect us to pat you on the back and hug you.
yea

folks don't get points cuz they tired of bein racist
 
Dec 2, 2017
3,435
Nobody cares. he's trying to convert people. Once a nazi always a nazi. You people are falling hook. line and sinker for him. Yes, he's so "reformed" that he went to make an AMA telling them that they're misunderstood an d should be loved. Who believes that shit?
He's been leading a non-profit organization to help people get out of that life for years. Racist beliefs are based on lies, people absolutely can wake up to that fact and change.
 

ishan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,192
Fuck him. The only way to combat them is defeat them and win. I've long since stated my unpopular belief we need to go Big Brother on these people. Instead of Big Brothering Muslims and Blacks why not root out White Supremacists and Neo Nazis?



Nobody cares. he's trying to convert people. Once a nazi always a nazi. You people are falling hook. line and sinker for him. Yes, he's so "reformed" that he went to make an AMA telling them that they're misunderstood an d should be loved. Who believes that shit?
I truly believe attitudes like this is part of the problem .
 

Psittacus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,933
Yeah, I see your point. Like, if it were just some random fucks around town being racist, I'd probably say "love thy neighbor" or whatever. But when they're in power like that, you can't just give 'em a hug and call it a day. How do you even fix this shit?
You can show someone compassion and understanding without letting them walk over you.

I agree that the burden of doing this work shouldn't fall on minorities, but it is a tactic that can work and someone should be doing it (like this guy).
 

Samara

Member
Oct 25, 2017
407
Québec
Dont look for us to teach them that we re human.

All these docs with a black person getting thème out us ridiculous.As if to say that we' re not doing enough.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,247
NYC
or you know

there can be broken people that can be fixed. Some can't, but many can.

so you're saying there should never be second chances and to exile them to die or something instead of reforming?

Like I said, there will be cases where they can't be reformed. But the opposite will also be true.

it's not up to minorities to turn the otehr cheek, it's up to other white folk to set them straight.
 

Air

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,262
Even if he's right that white supremacists are broken people (this is definitely true), it is not on minorities to fix their problems and placate them with love. I'm a rational world that could work, but in this reality love isn't enough sometimes and there needs to be systematic changes to remove that level of hate. It is on white people to call out these behaviors and to fix the system they created that would allow these beliefs to fester. This is not to say that minorities can't or haven't helped in the past because we have, but it's never been enough and it will never be enough until the average white person actively rejects that path
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,759
some of y'all kinda have to chill for a hot second

This dude is trying to change the behavior of other people like him, hop off the urge to kill for a bit.
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,760
The problem with this is it frames the white supremacist as the victim. And what's being advocated is that black people or whomever be the therapist. Sit there listen to them and say. "I understand how you feel, but..."

Nah don't expect us to pat you on the back and hug you.
It frames them as victims, but not as "thee" victim. There can be multiple victims. Some of these pieces of shit are broken as he says. I don't place them on the same level as those who are actual targets of bigotry and hate, but I can see them both as victims, sure. Just different ways. It's not easy for me to see like this though because we have concrete evidence right in front of our faces everday about how minorities are treated like shit, second class citizens, etc. My racist white neighbor? If he had a fucked up childhood, I can't just see that. It isn't appearant , and I'm not going to just assume, "aww...this poor guy went through some shit himself." As for the therapist bit, I don't think we have to be therapists to these assholes...we just have to not be violent towards them. Shine a spotlight on them, don't be silent, but don't "punch a nazi" because as he said, it solves nothing. Unless the hope is it inspires fear in others, but fear feeds these people. Makes more of them. Not less.

At least, that is all my interpretation of what he was saying. Now whether to agree to disagree with all that? That's a whole other thing. I can say for sure there are bits I agree with, and other bits not so much.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,826
Im perfectly fine. Im just making the point that I dont have to do shit for anyone whos bringing that shit to my door first.

Fuck all the understanding bullshit... You coming at us with garbage and we aint do one thing to them.

Nah, thats some weakboy nonsense. Ill respond with apathy.



Thats fantastic, heres an idea. How about white people take that initiative up?

Dont expect minorities to do it.
He is doing an AMA on Reddit, to be fair. :p
 

The Appetizer

Member
Apr 24, 2018
289
Wow at the antagonism towards this guy. Like you don't have to agree with his solutions or think they're fair. But he is clearly talking from first hand experience, he is clearly not a Nazi anymore, and he is clearly putting in work to atone for what he's done.
 

Bakercat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,154
'merica
reading the AMA and I didn't realize that American History X's influence came partly from his life. Pretty interesting on top of hearing about the use of normalized words used to slowly grab potential members.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,289
Wow at the antagonism towards this guy. Like you don't have to agree with his solutions or think they're fair. But he is clearly talking from first hand experience, he is clearly not a Nazi anymore, and he is clearly putting in work to atone for what he's done.

He's talking about what worked for him. Because he was big enough to actually self reflect on himself. Something that is lost on alotttttttt of Supremacists in this day and age. Self Reflection.

You're naive if you think thats going to work for all of them.


The second part is that he claims that you have to treat an actively hostile and violent force with kid gloves and love. Aint nobody got time for that. Not when they putting on uniforms and shooting our kids in the street.

some of y'all kinda have to chill for a hot second

This dude is trying to change the behavior of other people like him, hop off the urge to kill for a bit.

No tolerance for hatred means we now we have the urge to kill..... you're pathetic dude. What a pathetic post
 

Enduin

You look 40
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,488
New York
If you want to show these people kindness and compassion that's great, but don't expect, let alone tell, other people, especially those who are the actual victims of their hatred and bigotry, to do so as well. No one owes them shit, let alone the targets of their bigotry.

I'm all for reform and second chances. People are almost always the products of their environments and a victim of it to some degree in these cases, but once you actively victimize others you can't play that card anymore and you're no longer entitled to that second chance. If you're lucky you'll still get one and hopefully you have the sense to take it when offered, but no one is obligated to treat you with kindness and take a chance on you. You can't use you're own issues and problems as a shield to excuse treating other people as sub-human. You're still responsible for your choices and actions. What you say, support and take part in.
 

Deleted member 835

User requested account deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,660
Wow at the antagonism towards this guy. Like you don't have to agree with his solutions or think they're fair. But he is clearly talking from first hand experience, he is clearly not a Nazi anymore, and he is clearly putting in work to atone for what he's done.
No one has to accept his "atonement". It's easier for white people to forgive and forget than it is poc who are actually on the end of racists like this dude
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
Did the ex-white supremacist specifically say minorities need to befriend white supremacists or something? I'm not seeing that anywhere. He was asked what works in breaking through the programming, he said exactly what worked for him. That doesn't mean you specifically as an individual have to do it.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
some of y'all kinda have to chill for a hot second

This dude is trying to change the behavior of other people like him, hop off the urge to kill for a bit.

Wow at the antagonism towards this guy. Like you don't have to agree with his solutions or think they're fair. But he is clearly talking from first hand experience, he is clearly not a Nazi anymore, and he is clearly putting in work to atone for what he's done.

Alright. Why? If people don't want to forgive him they don't have to. Personally, I'm glad he's out of the life and trying to repent. But that's his journey. He doesn't need, nor should he want or expect the forgiveness of minorities who hate white supremacy and those who keep/kept it running. Some people have families, close and extended, current and in the past, that suffered at the hands of the bullshit this man participated gleefully in. The soul of this country is destroyed because of the efforts of men and women like him. People need to remember how easy it is for him to slough off his history as a white supremacist while it's not so easy for others. He no longer has to be a white supremacist to benefit from the actions of white supremacy, where as black people still have to and are currently dealing with the consequences of his sick religion. In that context, telling minorities how they should be feeling about this guy is BS.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,289
Did the ex-white supremacist specifically say minorities need to befriend white supremacists or something? I'm not seeing that anywhere. He was asked what works in breaking through the programming, he said exactly what worked for him. That doesn't mean you specifically as an individual have to do it.

Who else is going to realistically do it? We've been waiting for white people to show up for how long? We got Orange Man instead.
 

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,589
some of y'all kinda have to chill for a hot second

This dude is trying to change the behavior of other people like him, hop off the urge to kill for a bit.

White people need to be pulling these organizations apart by the ear, just by pulling their angry cousins and brothers home and talking to them. but instead people want to soften the responses of those that these white supremacist people target?

Does that make any sense?
 

Deleted member 835

User requested account deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,660
Did the ex-white supremacist specifically say minorities need to befriend white supremacists or something? I'm not seeing that anywhere. He was asked what works in breaking through the programming, he said exactly what worked for him. That doesn't mean you specifically as an individual have to do it.
Doesn't mean we have to agree with what he says
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,623
He's talking about what worked for him. Because he was big enough to actually self reflect on himself. Something that is lost on alotttttttt of Supremacists in this day and age. Self Reflection.

You're naive if you think thats going to work for all of them.


The second part is that he claims that you have to treat an actively hostile and violent force with kid gloves and love. Aint nobody got time for that. Not when they putting on uniforms and shooting our kids in the street.
No one is saying it will, or that this is the answer to beating white supremacy on a systematic scale
 

Madison

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,388
Lima, Peru
No one has to accept his "atonement". It's easier for white people to forgive and forget than it is poc who are actually on the end of racists like this dude
Yeah this thread has taught me that. Its definitely easier for me to be sympathetic because I dont really think I have experienced race discrimination in my life. I do question the paths some here suggest to eliminate white supremacy but I cannot pretend that I fully understand the struggle of racial minorities.
 

The Appetizer

Member
Apr 24, 2018
289
again, you don't get points cuz you got over bein a nazi

No one has to accept his "atonement". It's easier for white people to forgive and forget than it is poc who are actually on the end of racists like this dude
I didn't say he deserves points. Nor do I expect poc to forgive him for his past. But people seem angry at him for what he's doing now, which is even trying to atone (whether you accept it or not) and providing his perspective.

He's talking about what worked for him. Because he was big enough to actually self reflect on himself. Something that is lost on alotttttttt of Supremacists in this day and age. Self Reflection.

You're naive if you think thats going to work for all of them.


The second part is that he claims that you have to treat an actively hostile and violent force with kid gloves and love. Aint nobody got time for that. Not when they putting on uniforms and shooting our kids in the street.



No tolerance for hatred means we now we have the urge to kill..... you're pathetic dude. What a pathetic post

I literally said you don't have to agree with him. But I honestly don't see why his current actions warrant such anger, regardless of whether you forgive him for his past actions.
 

Deleted member 19844

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,500
United States
User Banned (5 Days): Tone policing reactions to dealing with racism
Guy: "Hey guys, I was a white supremacist, recruited at 14, rejected it at 22. Now I'm dedicated to educating people about how they recruit people and helping folks disengage from hate groups. Here's what got me out of it, and here's what others can do."

Era: "FUCK this guy. WE DONT OWE YOU SHIT! Fuck you! You're all fools for listening to this guy! Fuck him!"

eyeroll.gif
 

Afrikan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
16,990
We should ask current young White Supremacist how they would like for us to deal with them.

Violence on the spot

Or

Show patience and compassion

Real curious what their answer would be.....lol
 

Deleted member 2171

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,731
The recruitment stuff is true. Which is why I get annoyed when people want to platform nazis. You're literally giving them free recruitment breeding grounds.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
Who else is going to realistically do it? We've been waiting for white people to show up for how long? We got Orange Man instead.

Presumably the people in the AMA who asked about it.

Doesn't mean we have to agree with what he says

Sure, and most Nazis are not going to drop their beliefs because someone was nice to them. They're not all Christian Picciolinis or Derek Blacks. But that doesn't mean it makes sense to write him off wholesale or do what Alimnassor is doing and claim he's secretly trying to recruit people to fascism (???).
 

Deleted member 835

User requested account deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,660
Yeah this thread has taught me that. Its definitely easier for me to be sympathetic because I dont really think I have experienced race discrimination in my life. I do question the paths some here suggest to eliminate white supremacy but I cannot pretend that I fully understand the struggle of racial minorities.
Add that to we don't actually know all the shit he did. He could have beat up a poc, he could tormented a family. Etc
 

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,589
ecb20e627cc1f4cc4b33bd2893baa1e3.gif
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,289
His site is specifically built around those who have reformed helping others getting out of that life.

Thats fine, Im not mad at his work. Im mad at how his message is being used as a weapon to police how we feel about supremacists.


I didn't say he deserves points. Nor do I expect poc to forgive him for his past. But people seem angry at him for what he's doing now, which is even trying to atone (whether you accept it or not) and providing his perspective.



I literally said you don't have to agree with him. But I honestly don't see why his current actions warrant such anger, regardless of whether you forgive him for his past actions.

Again, all throughout this thread, his message is being used as "See, yall been doing it wrong. This is why hate continues"

As if we had any fucking involvement in any of this besides existing.

Guy: "Hey guys, I was a white supremacist, recruited at 14, rejected it at 22. Now I'm dedicated to educating people about how they recruit people and helping folks disengage from hate groups. Here's what got me out of it, and here's what others can do."

Era: "FUCK this guy. WE DONT OWE YOU SHIT! Fuck you! You're all fools for listening to this guy! Fuck him!"

eyeroll.gif

Exhibit A everyone.

Someone who completely ignores what we're saying AND is using this to police how we feel.
 

Rayne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,634
My thing is so many people I've seen take the "just talk to them." to an extreme and scream that nothing else will work when the truth is you need a mixture. Some people will not give two shits about love and others will convert because of that. That said telling people who are on the end of their bs that they need to get over it and use love because that's the only solution piss me off because it's not even true. It works on some people much like breaking teeth will work on others. Not to mention actually solving Nazism on a wide scale will need a wide scale effort on its behalf. Small groups of people no matter how well meaning won't get far in penetrating it without help especially given how it's spread like locusts to every part of our society. It's why that so quick to shut down violence while they sat on their hands while it was spreading pisses me off. After contributing to the problem you want to cry about how someone else fights back against it? FOH.
 

Deleted member 835

User requested account deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,660
Guy: "Hey guys, I was a white supremacist, recruited at 14, rejected it at 22. Now I'm dedicated to educating people about how they recruit people and helping folks disengage from hate groups. Here's what got me out of it, and here's what others can do."

Era: "FUCK this guy. WE DONT OWE YOU SHIT! Fuck you! You're all fools for listening to this guy! Fuck him!"

eyeroll.gif
This dude: "Hey guys, that's say minorities should be thankful a dude learned he was a racist fuck. Doesn't matter who he hurt when he was a racist fuck he has learnt not to be one so we can't call him out"
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,760
Is violence, specifically sexual violence to female members, rampant?

Also...how were you recruited at 14? Did they plant a seed and gradually become more radical or did they come at you full force and bring you in

Answer:
Yes. It's not a mandate per se, rather male insecurity, misogyny, and poor values reinforced.

Yes, it started with a gateway drug of feeling accepted and using very benign language that is the equivalent of the #ItsOKtobewhite hash tag nowadays
I really find interesting all his answers about how calmed down and more benign language started to be used, and is just as insidious, like liberal media used to call out the "Jew media"