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Former White Supremacist hosting an AMA on Reddit (Read OP)
- Thread starter Don Fluffles
- Start date
ah yes, the condescending reply while defending white supremecists
The emotional weight that the oppressor class expects the oppressed class to carry is abhorrent
I do blame them, violence should never be the response to a group of people unless you're on a literal battlefield. And I agree with the author that it only strengthens their views. I'm black (biracial) and have experienced racism first hand. I even have some unique experiences of seeing how young people can be warped into developing these toxic views and lost many friends because of it in high school. Some of those people I am now good friends with as they over time abandoned those views. I don't believe they abandoned those views cause others physically beat it out of them. They abandoned them as they developed relationships with people of color and began to realize how stupid those ideas were.
Lmao. Where did I defend white supremacists? Have you read and actually understood any of my posts?
This isn't really happening though. I don't see many in this thread saying that the oppressed themselves need to engage/understand/forgive.
The crazy thing is showing any actual compassion and understanding towards the oppressed is used as a tool for radicalization more than any actual violence against the radicalized
There's literally nothing the marginalized can do that isn't spun as a tool for white extremists. Dylan Roof shot a church full of praying people while ranting about black people taking over.
They spun players kneeling into an attack of the flag; how many can we really worry about what they can spin when it's already everything?
This white persecution complex isn't gonna stop when minorites stop being angry at unending marginalization. We've got well known YouTube personalities spinning the Last Jedi into being an anti straight white male film... maybe the problem isn't actually whatever they say it is and we can stop using their rhetoric for them?
And I hope the people who think we should understand where white extremists are coming from will afford me and people from other targeted groups(we're a bit more than bullied remember?) that same compassion and understanding
One side is taking the Jesus approach and the other is taking the US military approach. Neither solves the issue.
This analogy is repugnant.
Especially because I know which side you are claiming is acting like the US military.
I don't understand how you blame them but want compassion and understanding for Nazis that hold an inherently violent ideology
How quick your desire for compassion and understanding ends. It's almost like it was only ever for the one group
Because your response was not condescending at all? You didn't make a shit ton of assumptions about people in this thead? You didn't start calling people yuppies and snowflakes while knowing absolute shit about them? You started with the condescending attitude, accusing anyone who don't agree with you with "caring about white supremacists"
uhh I was talking about those against white supremacy and oppression in general.
No, that's a job for ALL of us. It is our country and we are one people. And why should it be the responsibility of only white americans, unless you want to use a broad brush and paint them all as such? Especially when once you start seeing their hateful ideology, that they even have specific ideas of what it means to be white, and they spew their hate not only towards people of color but to groups of white people that don't consider white because of where they are from or their faith or not the right type of Christianity. So where the hell does it end?
No one is saying YOU have to do shit personally, but it's not just the job of people with white skin. And if you think it is, fine, but we don't all feel that way.
I'm confused were you agreeing with my post or disagreeing with it?
Because now I have no idea what you were trying to say in reply to me.
Dude went around jumping black people and putting them in hospital or even worse. To call that a mistake is disgusting
This thread just shows how badly us minorities are treated. A guy that went around beating up poc and probably killing a few is forgiven and allowed to get on with life by so many
User Banned (5 Days): Tone policing reactions to racism.
You're all speaking in hypotheticals and it's very strange.
As a POC, I get asked constantly "what can I do to help" and I recently learned how useless that question is. It puts the onus on the victim to come up with a way for you to be an "ally". It's also a way for you to feel good about yourself since hey... you tried. Instead, ask yourself another question:
"What do I WANT to do?"
Which leads me to my next question. Do you WANT to fight? And when I say "want" I mean "are you willing"? Have you ever? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say most of you can't/won't. Because either you can't fight or you're too weak or afraid. And since that's the case for 99% of you: what the fuck are you arguing here exactly? You're sitting on a message-board arguing about some hypothetical situation where you likely won't punch a Nazi.
You're not being helpful, you're not dismantling anything, you're not DOING anything. And I'm not only speaking to white people here either by the way. What the fuck are you doing other than discrediting this man on a message-board arguing with a bunch of people you'll never meet? If you aren't doing anything then you aren't being helpful. This man just told you that people use Overwatch and message-boards to recruit and incite.
This doesn't bother you?!
You're ON a fucking message-board. You likely play this game online. These are your spaces and your communities. People that are interacting with your friends and potentially your families in a space that you frequent and have some say in. And your first fucking inkling is to say "we need to be violent?". Again:
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO FUCKING FIGHT...
so why the fuck are you even bringing it up?! If you're not willing to fight then do something else. Do something that you're capable of. If you want to fight then by all means fight. But if you're not going to do either one then what the fuck use are you? Reading this thread has been so incredibly infuriating because you're all just talking out of your ass advocating for something you'll NEVER FUCKING DO.
You're advocating for someone else to do the dirty work. You want someone else to fight. You want the guy/girl next to you to throw hands. Yea you'll cheer them on when you see the video but what the fuck else are you doing?
I'm not gonna stay in this shit ass thread to "argue" this but I'll just ask you to ask yourself what the hell are you willing to actually do to help dismantle this shit. I've been asking myself this a lot recently. From what I can see, this man has done more for the cause than you and I ever did or likely ever will. Take a very long look in the mirror here and ask yourself what you're actually capable of or willing to do and stop speaking in hypotheticals. Ask yourself what spaces you're in and what positions of power/influence you hold where you can actually do some good.
Otherwise shut the fuck up.
As a POC, I get asked constantly "what can I do to help" and I recently learned how useless that question is. It puts the onus on the victim to come up with a way for you to be an "ally". It's also a way for you to feel good about yourself since hey... you tried. Instead, ask yourself another question:
"What do I WANT to do?"
Which leads me to my next question. Do you WANT to fight? And when I say "want" I mean "are you willing"? Have you ever? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say most of you can't/won't. Because either you can't fight or you're too weak or afraid. And since that's the case for 99% of you: what the fuck are you arguing here exactly? You're sitting on a message-board arguing about some hypothetical situation where you likely won't punch a Nazi.
You're not being helpful, you're not dismantling anything, you're not DOING anything. And I'm not only speaking to white people here either by the way. What the fuck are you doing other than discrediting this man on a message-board arguing with a bunch of people you'll never meet? If you aren't doing anything then you aren't being helpful. This man just told you that people use Overwatch and message-boards to recruit and incite.
This doesn't bother you?!
You're ON a fucking message-board. You likely play this game online. These are your spaces and your communities. People that are interacting with your friends and potentially your families in a space that you frequent and have some say in. And your first fucking inkling is to say "we need to be violent?". Again:
YOU'RE NOT GOING TO FUCKING FIGHT...
so why the fuck are you even bringing it up?! If you're not willing to fight then do something else. Do something that you're capable of. If you want to fight then by all means fight. But if you're not going to do either one then what the fuck use are you? Reading this thread has been so incredibly infuriating because you're all just talking out of your ass advocating for something you'll NEVER FUCKING DO.
You're advocating for someone else to do the dirty work. You want someone else to fight. You want the guy/girl next to you to throw hands. Yea you'll cheer them on when you see the video but what the fuck else are you doing?
I'm not gonna stay in this shit ass thread to "argue" this but I'll just ask you to ask yourself what the hell are you willing to actually do to help dismantle this shit. I've been asking myself this a lot recently. From what I can see, this man has done more for the cause than you and I ever did or likely ever will. Take a very long look in the mirror here and ask yourself what you're actually capable of or willing to do and stop speaking in hypotheticals. Ask yourself what spaces you're in and what positions of power/influence you hold where you can actually do some good.
Otherwise shut the fuck up.
Basically what I was saying is that on the side of the oppressed it seems to me that they either advocate talk and non violence or they encourage violence and to kill/punch all Nazis. But both of those tactics completely miss the mark and fail to make any headway.
OH SHIT, damn. You should open a discussion and copy paste this.
Empathy imo is the the most important quality a person can't have when dealing with other people. That's not to say you have to have compassion for their views but you should try to understand why they hold them and from there educate them to as why they are wrong.
Attacking hate groups with violence is never going to weaken them.What will weaken them is dwindling their numbers, and that will not be done by beating up some stupid white kid cause he called you a racial slur.
Last part of your post are some mental gymnastics that I'm just ignore. TBH, very insulting as well.
Stopping white supremacy is a classic case of ounce of prevention worth a pound of cure.
Isolate and contain these groups in real life and online to keep them from programming as many people as possible. Once programmed, don't put the burden of deprogramming on those in the line of fire.
Everyone should read Into the Devil's Den, the information there about programming is eye opening. Its also an interesting human story, about a biker who becomes an informant and embeds himself deeply in a white terrorist organization, who succeeds in the end but has his old life destroyed. He could have just gone to jail or quit at any time but showed true courage. A model for white people as to what has to be done to stop direct white supremacist threats.
Isolate and contain these groups in real life and online to keep them from programming as many people as possible. Once programmed, don't put the burden of deprogramming on those in the line of fire.
Everyone should read Into the Devil's Den, the information there about programming is eye opening. Its also an interesting human story, about a biker who becomes an informant and embeds himself deeply in a white terrorist organization, who succeeds in the end but has his old life destroyed. He could have just gone to jail or quit at any time but showed true courage. A model for white people as to what has to be done to stop direct white supremacist threats.
Man, we have to be intolerant to those who are intolerant. You can save a few adult white supremacists, but most of them are incorrigible. The focus should be on the children, these people keep passing their bullshit to their kids and that's why we are on this never ending cycle of hate.
Yes which is why I advocate infiltration and education. Create underground schools and other forms of indcoctrination (for lack of a better word).
It really is exhausting. Every time I've been directly confronted with homophobia, from the deliberate to the casually ignorant -- from the guy who spent all day hanging out with me in a group of friends before getting two inches away from my face to angrily tell me being gay is a mental illness to the other member of my cousin's wedding party who declared his shock when discovering I was gay because "lesbians are ugly," as just some examples -- the straight people around me have always not only remained silent, but often expressed their annoyance if I don't just drop the subject. People generally want it to be accepted in silence.
Yet ironically, when a member of a minority group is the one to try to engage, it's so easily dismissed. My genuinely pretty moderate family who hates Trump and supports Black Lives Matter despite being in a pretty rural area still sometimes have some fucked up beliefs or habits. Even when my pushback is so very gentle and casual, the response is always eye rolling and the dismissive suggestion that of course the lesbian living in New York City would say that, we're so sensitive. Nobody actually listens to it, even when they like you, if they can find a reason to dismiss you. People who preach the slow and kind acceptance really do think that this is shit nobody's ever tried. I've given up on correcting the "small" things from my family entirely because it's completely changed how they look at me. Say one thing in the entire week I'm there about how actually oriental isn't something people like to be called and I'm that humorless buzz kill who sucks the fun out of the room. I've learned to save my ammo for bigger battles.
And these are the people who genuinely like me. I guess the benefit with strangers is they might take me seriously if they didn't realize I'm gay.
Yeah, there's a certain age where I just don't think you're worth the time of most people to try to save. Let the other former monsters atone for their sins by trying to reach out, but no reasonable person should be concerned with actively setting themselves up to suffer in order to save anyone except possibly minors whose brains aren't fully developed.
Infiltration and going underground rofl.
Welcome to 2018, where saying Nazis are bad means you are part of the guerrilla resistance now.
What we need to do is fund deradicalisation programs like this but at the same time taking away any platform for their hateful rhetoric, take them off the TV, get them banned from social media, drive them underground and keep telling Nazis and other hateful pricks to go fuck themselves at every single opportunity.
What we SHOULDN'T* do, is clutch our pearls about people that might be a bit too mean to white supremacists because that only makes them stronger.
*Unless you're some milquetoast fool that wants to live in a bubble and pretend the oppressed don't exist.
It always goes back to the empowered class is more interested in negative peace than justice.
Also as a POC, thanks for this post. Seriously don't understand the attitude of armchair commentators who somehow need to express the righteousness of their own opinion, as though it were something nobody else has thought about. Like that is what should be the focus here. Like reiterating that fact of his complicit nature, and that he is damned, is more useful than moving forward and processing this dude's info.
I'm a person too. I'm not here to have my buttons pushed as a game or expirement.
I feel like like I shouldn't have to explain that but in your rush to empathize with the stupid white man that called me a racial slur you don't seem to sympathize at all with me for being put in the position where I feel like I had to punch him in throat
and as much as I hate to be put in that situation, I'm glad I reacted the way I did even though you blame me for it and the compassion and understanding you claim to wield with such virtue never made it my way
I already said on the last page that nobody honestly wants to have to fight Nazis and more importantly that violence against Nazis isn't some big thing. The argument people are making is that violence against nazis is used to make them more sympathetic and gain followers and I've been saying that's not happening
He should have paid for his crimes, don't twist my words. There is value in listening to his experience so that the authorities can better identify how these groups work and how they attract new members so that they can better protect young people from their influence.
It seems that people misunderstand what "listening to the other side" means. It doesn't mean "let's listen to this nazi asshole explain to us why ethnic cleansing is actually a good thing". It means " let's listen so we can undestand how this person came to this perverted and scary way of thinking so that we as a society can better protect others from falling into the same trap".
I hate that places like NYT have given these fuckheads the impression that we care what they think or how/why they were radicalized.
Don't care. Fuck them. Eat Shit and crawl back under the hole we drove you fuckers into after destroying Hitler's movement. Fucking inbred losers.
Don't care. Fuck them. Eat Shit and crawl back under the hole we drove you fuckers into after destroying Hitler's movement. Fucking inbred losers.
That's what I wanna know did he suffer any consequences for you know being part of a roving gang of skinheads who attacked Black people for fun .
Well he hasn't paid for his crimes and people expect dudes to listen to him. He doesn't deserve a platform at all.
I didn't twist your words at all you said exactly what you said.like I said before, some dudes do not deserve a 2nd chance etc this is one. If the dude was a racist guy spewing shit then I would be more accepting of the shit he said. But we have a dude that at the very least put poc in hosiptal just because our skin is different and at the very most killed some one and got away with it. This guy ruined so many lived yet now thinks he deserves a 2nd chance and to be seen as a guy that has mended his ways. All at the same time getting away with the shit he did. Fuck that
You should probably not compare a bunch of mostly minorities in this thread to the US military
From what I've read, he's done more to combat skinheads than either you or I have. If we really want to dwindle the number of white supremacists - and I really, really do - is that not worth talking about?
And I can't believe I need to make this distinction, but I'm not in any way endorsing the fact that he probably got away with a lot of shit because he's white. White folks can get away with a lot, and it's messed up.
He didn't get a platform to spout nazi rhetoric. I don't know why you can't see this. I understand your anger, I really do. But what he has to say regarding the way neonazis recruit new members has value and is worth listening to in order to stop more people from being indoctrinated into the same way of thinking.
Do you consider jail the only way to pay for crime? Would you rather him sitting in a cell than doing what he's currently doing? I'm seriously asking. I don't trust the jail system much and I think him seeking to pay for his crime and repent through activism is a much better alternative. You don't have to like him or forgive him for the horrible acts he committed, but as I see it - He's dedicating a good portion of his life to paying for his crimes.
What is an underground school and how do you plan to get white supremacists or anyone to go to one?
Why don't you care how/why they were radicalised? If we can identify that we can build systems to prevent it from happening.
