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Bernie was far from a perfect candidate, but he seems to have garnered the most enthusiasm.

entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,241
Let me be clear, I thought many of Bernie's campaign policies were unrealistic--free college, guaranteed jobs, and so on. And I thought he could be tone deaf on social issues, especially with things like racism. I didn't support him in the primaries either. So I don't come from the POV of a Bernie die hard.

However, outside of Obama, Bernie and his legacy now being continued with the young Ocasio-Cortez, seems to be the type of candidate that has brought the most excitement to the Democrat Party. When I see the current roster of Democratic Presidential hopefuls, I don't see much passion or excitement. My senator, Gillibrand looks to be a good candidate, but I can honestly see her being beaten by Trump handily.

Bernie really did connect to section of voter that the traditional, boring corporate stooge Democrat has had trouble appealing to. I remember reading the interesting cross section of voters who supported Trump and Bernie. And I know the retort is, why do we have to appeal to racist Trump supporters? I think this misses the strategic point. While Bernie struggled with racial politics, and some of more diehard supporters were annoying, I want to win elections. Bernie's campaign was not one that comprised on social justice. He did have blind spots. I do agree there. But if I could keep a GOP President out of the WH, I don't care if some Trump voters join the bandwagon, especially as we've seen with the how the crucial Presidents are to SCOTUS picks, and shaping the laws of this country for decades.

However, it still seems the Democrats are fractured. Too much infighting. And Schumer frankly sucks. As a New Yorker, I'm sorry, guys lol.

So while many in the community have been very critical of Bernie. I do think there is some clues in his candidacy the Dems are missing. And with the recent rise of Ocasio-Bernie, a Bernie protege, I hope we don't miss this lesson.

What do you think the Democrats can learn from Bernie's candidacy?
 
El Bombastico

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,062
He got so much enthusiasm that he lost the primary against one of the most disliked women in US political history.
 
Volimar

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
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Oct 25, 2017
38,629
I think Bernie has a lot to offer democrats to continue pushing discourse left. I don't want him to run for president again.
 
OP
OP
entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,241
El Bombastico said:
He got so much enthusiasm that he lost the primary against one of the most disliked women in US political history.
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https://www.cnn.com/2016/04/21/politics/2016-bernie-sanders-fundraising-hillary-clinton/index.html

Sanders likes to say that most of his fundraising has come from small donors where the average contribution is $27. He has criticized Clinton for larger donations, but the Clinton campaign said Wednesday their average donation size for March was $45.
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That's a lot of grassroots support.
 
Reverse Giraffe

Reverse Giraffe

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,853
Orlando, FL
I voted for Bernie Sanders in the 2016 Democratic primary but I think its time to pass the torch to a new generation of progressives because the fight seems to have left Bernie.
 
Dark Knight

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,338
BackLogJoe said:
Pretty much this. He lost to the candidate that lost to Trump. Lol. Time to go away, Bernie.
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Funny thing is that Bernie would have done much better against Trump, pretty sure every major poll on it was saying so. Says more about the democratic party/DNC than Bernie's national efficacy tbh.
 
excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
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Oct 25, 2017
73,330
He did a good job shifting the party... now it is time to let people who actually can commit to things take the reigns.
 
Meows

Meows

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,399
Mcfrank said:
Bernie's ideas are great. Bernie sucks.
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Basically this is how I feel. Well, I don't think that he completely sucks but he is a tone deaf old man that is too stubborn for his own good. He is good at his stump speech and that is about it and doesn't really have much more to offer otherwise. The ideas in his stump speech are really important though and I am glad more people are fighting for those same ideals. I don't really think he is the one that should still be leading that charge because it seems like he constantly has a bad case of word vomit lmao.
 
NoName999

NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
People need to realize that Ocasio-Cortez and Sanders are not one and the same. She's not Sander's legacy because not only is she probably not the only one calling for stuff Sanders' wants, she's not socially blind to throw the oppressed under the bus. And how is it that no one ever brings up Bernie "I'm not a hawk" Sanders' support for the military industrial complex?

Mcfrank said:
Bernie's ideas are great. Bernie sucks.
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Also this
 
excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
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Oct 25, 2017
73,330
Also I love that the incredible success of a young woman of colour is getting credited to Sanders.

Legit one ticker news said Sanders supporter wins upset in primary...
 
OP
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entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,241
acheron_xl said:
He pulled them leftwarrd. His usefulness is near an end.
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This is a great point. And it's one of the things that his detractors fail to mention. Heck, I thought many were very unrealistic too, but the fact that he brought issues that have long been dormant in the national political discourse was great. We've moved way too right in the last 20 years.

Also, while I know thinking of running for 2020, that's not this thread focus.
 
saenima

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
I know my kind of opinion will probably never be a popular one because people need optimism in their lives, something to look forward to.

But i have no trust whatsoever in the current 'democracy' we inhabit, a system and political body that is completely beholden to the worst facets of capitalism, where almost every decision is a corporate mandate that is then made palatable to the general populace to swallow. A system completely put in place to siphon wealth toward the top at the expense of everything, including our own survival as a species.

Some people look at Sanders and see a break from the mold. I just see another old, rich and white career politician with his own brand of shit flavor. He's one of the least bad from the big Dem names and he'd definitely be much better than literally all of the GOP put together, but does it even matter what name is on the paper when the whole system is broken top to bottom and he will never have the tools or will to fix it?


Just venting. I hate everything today :|
 
Luchashaq

Luchashaq

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
4,329
excelsiorlef said:
Also I love that the incredible success of a young woman of colour is getting credited to Sanders.

Legit one ticker news said Sanders supporter wins upset in primary...
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People want to have it both ways.

"Only white dude bros liked Bernie"

"Any success by anyone remotely progressive but especially women and POC were Sanders supporters and he should get credit"

Can't have it both ways fuckers.

What idiots never realized was that Bernie was already the compromise candidate by actual lefties, the compromise not the ideal.
 
99Luffy

99Luffy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,344
Do everything the same minus free college. Not even democrats like that idea because they all paid thousands in students loans.
 
OP
OP
entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,241
saenima said:
I know my kind of opinion will probably never be a popular one because people need optimism in their lives, something to look forward to.

But i have no trust whatsoever in the current 'democracy' we inhabit, a system and political body that is completely beholden to the worst facets of capitalism, where almost every decision is a corporate mandate that is then made palatable to the general populace to swallow. A system completely put in place to siphon wealth toward the top at the expense of everything, including our own survival as a species.

Some people look at Sanders and see a break from the mold. I just see another old, rich and white career politician with his own brand of shit flavor. He's one of the least bad from the big Dem names and he'd definitely be much better than literally all of the GOP put together, but does it even matter what name is on the paper when the whole system is broken top to bottom and he will never have the tools or will to fix it?


Just venting. I hate everything today :|
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While I get you. I think you're missing the point. Even with the Dems are same as everyone narrative. Hasn't Trump showed that the Dems are not just Republican lite?
 
Sadsic

Sadsic

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,806
New Jersey
Sanders appeals primarily to Trump voters that are not likely to leave the cult in 2020. I do not see him inherently doing much better than say, Gillibrand/Harris as they all have the same level of policy-based impurities and are all relatively clean on the character actor level and will all command a similar amount of the minority vote (if not much more for Harris)
 
Poodlestrike

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
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Oct 25, 2017
13,499
Even AOC has said over and over that her win is as much about putting in the work as some hypothetical shift in the base. She was out there, campaigning, going door to door, talking directly to her constituents. Crowley wasn't. Sanders didn't have a thing to do with it.

I would also agree that Sanders's "enthusiasm" levels are grossly overrated. Dude lost by millions of votes, and the pollable enthusiasm gap swung in the other direction entirely. Sanders supporters were more visible, that's it.

Finally, I would caution against buying into this notion that Dems are super fragmented. Democrats believe in dialogue, hashing out ideas instead of having them delivered from on high, but by and large the actual message coming out of the candidates is pretty harmonious. Most of the infighting is confined to the pundit class, and occasional spars between activists and leadership. Nothing out of the ordinary for a healthy party.
 
DigitalOp

DigitalOp

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Nov 16, 2017
9,292
I voted Bernie in the primary.

Him attacking the corporate grip that has a hold on this country was refreshing to hear from a politician on a national stage.
 
Dark Knight

Dark Knight

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Oct 25, 2017
19,338
excelsiorlef said:
Also I love that the incredible success of a young woman of colour is getting credited to Sanders.

Legit one ticker news said Sanders supporter wins upset in primary...
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They def need to give her more credit but I'm thinking they do that partly because they assume a good deal of their viewers aren't socialists or may be uninformed about the socialist party/delineation, so they're basically saying "she's got Sanders-like policy" or "from the same party that brought you Sanders..."

I definitely agree with you though, and I actually think some coverage of her(particularly some stuff I've seen on CNN) has actually given her a lot of credit for her win(and rightfully so).
 

Deleted member 6230

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Oct 25, 2017
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I'm having a hard time putting my thoughts into words but I think Bernie got the enthusiasm he did partly because the Democratic Party became the party of the "professional class" the type of folks who live in a coastal city that's becoming gentrified and probably works in either tech, marketing, finance, or entertainment and they ran away from the l"working class" or the people that have degree but are stuck working retail in a coastal city that's rapidly gentrifying. Bernie managed to appeal to both those groups. Idk I hope that makes sense
 
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entremet

entremet

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Oct 26, 2017
60,241
infinite said:
I'm having a hard time putting my thoughts into words but I think Bernie got the enthusiasm he did partly because the Democratic Party became the party of the "professional class" the type of folks who live in a coastal city that's becoming gentrified and probably works in either tech, marketing, finance, or entertainment and they ran away from the l"working class" or the people that have degree but are stuck working retail in a coastal city that's rapidly gentrifying. Bernie managed to appeal to both those groups. Idk I hope that makes sense
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That makes a lot of sense. Hillary lost the rust belt as an example. Not just in her perception but actual campaign strategy. I don't think she even stepped foot in Wisconsin during the campaign.
 
DigitalOp

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,292
saenima said:
I know my kind of opinion will probably never be a popular one because people need optimism in their lives, something to look forward to.

But i have no trust whatsoever in the current 'democracy' we inhabit, a system and political body that is completely beholden to the worst facets of capitalism, where almost every decision is a corporate mandate that is then made palatable to the general populace to swallow. A system completely put in place to siphon wealth toward the top at the expense of everything, including our own survival as a species.

Some people look at Sanders and see a break from the mold. I just see another old, rich and white career politician with his own brand of shit flavor. He's one of the least bad from the big Dem names and he'd definitely be much better than literally all of the GOP put together, but does it even matter what name is on the paper when the whole system is broken top to bottom and he will never have the tools or will to fix it?


Just venting. I hate everything today :|
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You're not alone, I'm pretty over it all too.

And it's bleeding over to how weak and fucking centrist the Democrats are.

November has to show me something because I have 0 faith in this country anymore.
 
excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

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Oct 25, 2017
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DanGo

DanGo

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Oct 25, 2017
6,745
Dark Knight said:
Funny thing is that Bernie would have done much better against Trump, pretty sure every major poll on it was saying so. Says more about the democratic party/DNC than Bernie's national efficacy tbh.
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Polls about theoretical matchups before either is campaigning against the other are pretty useless.
 
y2dvd

y2dvd

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Nov 14, 2017
2,481
99Luffy said:
Do everything the same minus free college. Not even democrats like that idea because they all paid thousands in students loans.
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I understand the frustrations of having paid it already, but this is selfish. It should still be a goal.

Thread going as expected. At least you know got people admitting his ideas are good lol. Still the best candidate until someone supersedes him.
 
Dark Knight

Dark Knight

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19,338
C for Chewbacca said:
Can we just Biden 2020 this shit, and have a Bernie-esque running mate?
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I like Biden but I feel like running him would be an extension of "when they go low, we go high." He's just way too nice and respectful, we need someone who will tear Trump's combover off and claw his eyes out.

edit: for the record I'm not saying that's Bernie
 
Raein

Raein

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
980
Bernie was really good at pounding away the same platitudes every time someone handed him a microphone. He had no plan to make his fantasies come true. I say this as someone who voted for him in the primaries.
 
OP
OP
entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
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Oct 26, 2017
60,241
y2dvd said:
I understand the frustrations of having paid it already, but this is selfish. It should still be a goal.

Thread going as expected. At least you know got people admitting his ideas are good lol. Still the best candidate until someone supersedes him.
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I don't think he's the best candidate now due to his age, but even now it seems he would cream the current Dem hopefuls.
 

VectorPrime

Banned
Apr 4, 2018
11,781
Dark Knight said:
Funny thing is that Bernie would have done much better against Trump, pretty sure every major poll on it was saying so. Says more about the democratic party/DNC than Bernie's national efficacy tbh.
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The GOP strategically avoided criticizing Bernie during the primaries in order to aggravate division among Democrats. Trump commonly praised Bernie and talked about how Hillary and the Dems were being unfair to him. But if Bernie had been the nominee the entire Republican and Trump apparatus would have directed all of their strength and ire against Bernie. You would have seen wall to wall negative coverage of all his faults blown up to fit the Republican picture that he is a kooky Communist. His polling would have cratered. Now, could he have still won? Yeah maybe. But it's easy to look at hypothetical polling matchups when Bernie had never before ran for national office and never had to deal with all of the negativity that comes with it.

Never forget that Hillary had a very positive approval rating while as Secretary of State that only cratered when it became clear she would be the favorite for the Dem nomination and the Republican propaganda began attacking her in force. The same thing would have happened to Bernie.
 
legacyzero

legacyzero

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,252
Bernie started the conversation. But he isn't the one to carry it. He has too many nagging issues about him that unfortunately holds him back. He's a crotchety old guy who's stubborn, a broken record in his rhetoric that doesn't exactly speak to everyone that hears it, though he's not wrong. And he's not fiery enough on issues that matters to others and treats shit with kid gloves when it should be obvious on which stance he should take. Even Berniecrats themselves are surpassing him on his message. Such as when he was pressed on abolishing ICE. I know his mind and heart is in the right place. But his answer was a stumble, when it easily could have been "FUCK YEAH, ABOLISH ICE".

Bernie is equal parts inspiring and frustrating to me. There's a lot of hyperbole around Bernie, especially in this board, some of which is disingenuous, and even dishonest, for no good reason other than "look at that bitch eating crackers!" levels of petty.

Long story short, Bernie needs to take a role in finding a somebody to take his place. Somebody energetic, shocking the base, healing the rift in the Democratic Party (because the goddamn party itself isn't going to) and watch as we DEMOLISH Trump in 2020.

ShadowKingpin said:
It's not easy to win a primary when the majority of your party works against you in favor of your opponent.
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Also true. Superdelegates need reform, or needs to go. Though, I'm not sure I'm entirely against SDs. If he GOP has them, we wouldn't have Trump. So that's a solid antithesis. Though it was by the will of the people that he got picked. So I'm torn lol
 
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