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Swenhir

Member
Oct 28, 2017
521
The game can run well on a modern i5 and a 1070, modern game consoles are basically PCs and the nextgen ones will be able to fit 8 zen cores at 7nm which will rival i7s now accordingto digital foundry. I dont know what would really be troublesome in porting SC to next gen consoles.
Keep in mind this should be done when its in a good state on PC.

Its different to crysis 2, witcher 2.
What Im saying is more similar to if crysis 2 and witcher 2 were made for PC then ported to X1/PS4.

If you think that a widespread keyboard requirement will fly on consoles, you are more optimistic than I am. They are also anything but "basically PCs". They do share a lot more than before but they are a far cry from being easy to port to. I don't know what else to say, you only need to look at all the custom hardware and tricks developers use to make the things Guerilla or ND do possible. By definition, fixed hardware implies being very close to a very specific metal.

I don't have anything else to add that's really constructive. If you can't see how limited hardware ties designers and engineers down in what they can do, it's really hard to discuss further. Take raytracing. There's a certain level of performance below which it makes no sense to attempt it. There is a point at which you can no longer scale it down. We are barely starting to get above that point, we don't even attempt it because of hardware constraints. That's the essence of what I am saying. That the fixed hardware ticks over every 8 years is moot because it is still a fixed snapshot that is average relative to its time.

I see what you are saying, that future consoles will be more powerful than today's PCs on which you are currently seeing the alpha kind-of run. However tomorrow's PCs are the targets for which SC is being continuously developed for. In addition to that, even taking a static version like S42 would pose problem down the line where a designer might be forced to think for the sequels "shit, there no way this will run on PS5". I do not want that, especially since it might even have bleeding effect on SC's design since they share everything.

Pack it up boys. There's no way Chumley is wrong.

I don't follow.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
If you think that a widespread keyboard requirement will fly on consoles, you are more optimistic than I am. They are also anything but "basically PCs". They do share a lot more than before but they are a far cry from being easy to port to. I don't know what else to say, you only need to look at all the custom hardware and tricks developers use to make the things Guerilla or ND do possible. By definition, fixed hardware implies being very close to a very specific metal.

I don't have anything else to add that's really constructive. If you can't see how limited hardware ties designers and engineers down in what they can do, it's really hard to discuss further. Take raytracing. There's a certain level of performance below which it makes no sense to attempt it. There is a point at which you can no longer scale it down. We are barely starting to get above that point, we don't even attempt it because of hardware constraints. That's the essence of what I am saying. That the fixed hardware ticks over every 8 years is moot because it is still a fixed snapshot that is average relative to its time.

I see what you are saying, that future consoles will be more powerful than today's PCs on which you are currently seeing the alpha kind-of run. However tomorrow's PCs are the targets for which SC is being continuously developed for. In addition to that, even taking a static version like S42 would pose problem down the line where a designer might be forced to think for the sequels "shit, there no way this will run on PS5". I do not want that, especially since it might even have bleeding effect on SC's design since they share everything.



I don't follow.


A little bit of clarification would be nice.
You say the next gen consoles will be limiting to SC, in what way?
The only thing I can think of that would be problematic is the game engine used,a form of cry engiene which has been troublesome at times on current gen systems, however the xbox1x has faired better and next gen consoles will be able to handle cryengiene better.

Tomorrows PCs are the target? What do you mean by this? Will mid range pcs in 2020(high end pcs now) not be able to run SC?

Im not trying catch u out or do a gotcha. I am genuinely curious what specific reasons would make a next gen port problematic. If its a matter that they have there hands full with the PC version I understand that and in that case a next gen port should not be done until the PC one is sorted out.

First parties get the most out of a console because they can target just 1 platform. For a console is limiting in a number of ways, GPU + CPU power, ram amount, ram bandwidt, shader support and the dev tools E.G crysis 1 could not work on 360/ps3 due to the ram being to low etc
 
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Swenhir

Member
Oct 28, 2017
521
You are right, I think next gen consoles - any gen console - will be limiting to SC. The game will ship with a recommended configuration, probably midrange PCs at the time but that configuration will evolve over time. You cannot do that with a console, and the hardware becomes dated very quickly. The only growth over time is afforded by the ingenuity of developers and their knowledge of the hardware. PC doesn't have that problem. While the game is being developed, the hardware target is the projected mid/high-range years down the line, not the current gen or next one if you are lucky.

We are discussing a special moment in time. Not only did the GPU/CPU manufacturer sit on their thumbs for the last 5 years, there was also the crypto boom which made a mess of the market. Long story short, if SC was to release around the time the new gen comes around, their hardware would easily match midrange PCs. If given the time and budget to port correctly, it could probably run on consoles based on that virtue. But that would be beside the point. Even assuming a powerful next gen and that every version of the games comes bundled with a keyboard, the game's future would still be tied to that hardware. All future developments would be shackled to their capabilities.

That is my reasoning for being against a console port considering this is a game that is meant to push the limits and I'd like that to happen more often than every 8 years :).
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
A little bit of clarification would be nice.
You say the next gen consoles will be limiting to SC, in what way?
The only thing I can think of that would be problematic is the game engine used,a form of cry engiene which has been troublesome at times on current gen systems, however the xbox1x has faired better and next gen consoles will be able to handle cryengiene better.

Tomorrows PCs are the target? What do you mean by this? Will mid range pcs in 2020(high end pcs now) not be able to run SC?

Im not trying catch u out or do a gotcha. I am genuinely curious what specific reasons would make a next gen port problematic. If its a matter that they have there hands full with the PC version I understand that and in that case a next gen port should not be done until the PC one is sorted out.

First parties get the most out of a console because they can target just 1 platform. For a console is limiting in a number of ways, GPU + CPU power, ram amount, ram bandwidt, shader support and the dev tools E.G crysis 1 could not work on 360/ps3 due to the ram being to low etc

There's a better chance that SQ42 comes to console then anything SC related proper, it would be a hell to port to consoles, just on merit alone. Plus Microsoft or Sony would be footing that bill, not CIG. That's something they've made clear and it's a no go even more, if it such a port happens and it compromises the game.

The core especially, ala AI and the NPC population.Of course we don't how powerful consoles will be, but the platform is limited to how it can scale or will scale in the future to keep up with advancements. So i'm sure that CIG doesn't want to deal with making a potentially inferior version of SC on a fairly stagnate ecosystem.


Especially when you factor in the networking code, meshing and cloud tech, along with them using amazon servers to support the foundation. Them having to deal with Xbox live an Sony's network, it could be a nightmare to navigate. If not pre-planned and even then the outcome is unforseenable.

Now things like Star Marine, Racing and Arena Commander could easily transition as well. Once they get dedicated teams and get fully fleshed out as functional pieces.
 
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Jinroh

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,190
Lausanne, Switzerland
Is the game performance supposed to have been improved? It's still an extreme stutter mess on my side. It could be the best game ever that I still couldn't enjoy it with stutters and a framerate in the mid 20s.
 

Swenhir

Member
Oct 28, 2017
521
Is the game performance supposed to have been improved? It's still an extreme stutter mess on my side. It could be the best game ever that I still couldn't enjoy it with stutters and a framerate in the mid 20s.

From what I've quickly glanced, people are getting framerates around the 30's and are seeing a good improvement. I can't play the game with my crappy laptop at the moment but the usual suggestions are to have more than 16gigs of ram and run the game on an SSD.

OCS can't come soon enough to at least deal with all the streaming stalls and memory problems.
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
Is the game performance supposed to have been improved? It's still an extreme stutter mess on my side. It could be the best game ever that I still couldn't enjoy it with stutters and a framerate in the mid 20s.
I've gotten pretty good consistent frames, compared to 3.0 and 3.1 to be honest. Maybe delete the user file, re-download it or create a user.cfg with some graphic/performance related commands to smooth out the experience or find a clean server. Or a combination of both.

For now i'm just trying to get rid of the shitty blur that smears my screen on objects and environments. Every time i move the free camera.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
There's a better chance that SQ42 comes to console then anything SC related proper, it would be a hell to port to consoles, just on merit alone. Plus Microsoft or Sony would be footing that bill, not CIG. That's something they've made clear and it's a not go even more, if it such a port happens and it compromises the game.

The core especially, ala AI and the NPC population.Of course we don't how powerful consoles will be, but the platform is limited to how it can scale or will scale in the future to keep up with advancements. So i'm sure that CIG doesn't want to deal with making a potentially inferior version of SC on a fairly stagnate ecosystem.


Especially when you factor in the networking code, meshing and cloud tech, along with them using amazon servers to support the foundation. Them having to deal with Xbox live an Sony's network, it could be a nightmare to navigate. If not pre-planned and even then the outcome is unforseenable.

Now things like Star Marine, Racing and Arena Commander could easily transition as well. Once they get dedicated teams and get fully fleshed out as functional pieces.

If the bolded is the case it will mean the PC system requirements are subject to change.
They are going to really limit there userbase if top end hardware is required.
It seems such a crazy way to make a game if a 1070 core i7 16gb ram pc can play the game well now and in a few years it cant.
 

KKRT

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,544
Yeah, i'm actually quite positive about S42 being ported to next gen consoles if CPUs wont be shit in them, but SC is another beast.
I dont think they will want to split resources to maintain 3 version of SC and especially think about performance design around consoles.
If CIG would commit to consoles after for example very successful S42 launch, i think they would make a dedicated team to port and extend Arena Commander and Star Marine experience or mini non served meshed PU based on some version that would not be updated like live version.

---

Is the game performance supposed to have been improved? It's still an extreme stutter mess on my side. It could be the best game ever that I still couldn't enjoy it with stutters and a framerate in the mid 20s.
Most of optimization will come with Object Container Streaming and Bind Culling in 3.3.0. This is patch is more like intermediary content patch before 3.3.0

---

Ps. To all people launching SC first time after years and want to experience game in stable framerate to see how it feels, check out Arena Commander in Free Fly mode. I had stable 90fps there last patch, its amazing :)
 

Cabbagehead

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,019
If the bolded is the case it will mean the PC system requirements are subject to change.
They are going to really limit there userbase if top end hardware is required.
It seems such a crazy way to make a game if a 1070 core i7 16gb ram pc can play the game well now and in a few years it cant.

Well top end isn't required. Unless of course you want to run the alpha version without much hang. But at the end of the day, the game should be able to scale to almost any base requirement for a game. Matter a fact it should be even better for each tier regardless.

Since a lot of the heavy work in SC won't be dependent on your PC, a lot of it will be handled server side, with some help from CIG's other techniques, they've worked on/out. That should help with players not HAVING to upgrade. Though you'd most likely want to after a certain period anyway, so no that doesn't mean that 1070 and a i7 wouldn't be able to play the game in the future.


The present state of the game is no where near the optimal representation to gleam rather or not it will scale to that hardware. It won't matter, unless something big changes in the industry like 32bit to 64bit or something.

End of the day it's about the spec and their engine, an how they render and stream content. Not the hardware in your computer as much.
 
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Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,932
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
I dont see why porting to next gen would alter the breadth at all.It would just be a port which should be able to be done quite easily on the rumoured specs.
Keyboard support seems to be propping up on Xbox and would be easy to implement.

Thankfully game devs and pubs are financially motivated and theres are lot of money to be made on this game in the console market.
The game requires an SSD atm to not be totally terrible. I think they could port to next gen consoles targeting 30 fps on the CPU side of things, especially for squadron 42, but I am not sure what the hell will be done for Star Citizen. It requires an SSD as is.

Also, it is a very RAM hungry game atm... it will get better, but I am not sure what the final specs will be for system RAM, I think 16 GB for minimum.
 

Deleted member 12379

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,999
Sorry noob question here. I have the 300i and I went to the self-hangar but I couldn't get inside my ship. All I was allowed to do was 'Open Door'. The ladder option isn't available. Is that just a self-hangar thing? I thought I could sit in my ship at least.
 

NuMiQ

Member
Oct 25, 2017
599
The Netherlands
Sorry noob question here. I have the 300i and I went to the self-hangar but I couldn't get inside my ship. All I was allowed to do was 'Open Door'. The ladder option isn't available. Is that just a self-hangar thing? I thought I could sit in my ship at least.

Not sure what that might be, could be the hangar version is bugged. The 300i is due for a rework (next patch if i'm not mistaken? Don't take me up on that), so I'm not too surprised to see stuff broken. I don't own one, so I'm unable to test it I'm afraid.
Try spawning it in the PU and see if it works there, or spawn in Arena Commander single player mode freeflight (or in a party) to check out the ship at your leisure.
 

TheCanisDirus

Member
Nov 13, 2017
2,304
For someone who has very little knowledge about the entire Star Citizen "universe"/games (on purpose - waiting to go in completely blind - one day)... is there any sort of ETA on when it will come to market as a full release? Are all the components like the FPS PvP stuff going to be individual games? I've been dying for this game and it's been super difficult suppressing the urge to research more and jump in and start playing.
 

Zalusithix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
461
Sorry noob question here. I have the 300i and I went to the self-hangar but I couldn't get inside my ship. All I was allowed to do was 'Open Door'. The ladder option isn't available. Is that just a self-hangar thing? I thought I could sit in my ship at least.
Hangars have been in various states of being broken for a long time now. The entire system is being redone, so don't read too much into bugs experienced within the current ones. Spawn in an AC free flight match and go land on a pad if you want a landed ship. I've confirmed that interactions with the 300i work fine outside of the hangar.
 

gnomed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,298
US
For someone who has very little knowledge about the entire Star Citizen "universe"/games (on purpose - waiting to go in completely blind - one day)... is there any sort of ETA on when it will come to market as a full release? Are all the components like the FPS PvP stuff going to be individual games? I've been dying for this game and it's been super difficult suppressing the urge to research more and jump in and start playing.

No targeted release date as of now. There is an updated roadmap, but fixes and additions have been pushed back. Alpha phase is still projected into Q1 2019 with estimates of a Beta by 2020. As for the modules, Star Marine (FPS) and Arena Commander (Ship Combat), both will continually be worked on as they are used for testing grounds on the combat of the main game.

If you're waiting for the online MMO portion, Persistent Universe, that will be a long while. Currently, teams are working on both a single player game, Squadron 42 and the PU. Squadron 42 will release before the Persistent Universe, but only the PU is being tested by players.

Is the game performance supposed to have been improved? It's still an extreme stutter mess on my side. It could be the best game ever that I still couldn't enjoy it with stutters and a framerate in the mid 20s.

My specs are an i3770k @4.2ghz with 16GB and a 1070 gpu running on a SSD. From my experience, I can get 30-50fps on the PTU server when very few are playing, but drops to less than 20 fps when on a busy server. Right now, I'm getting terrible frames and hitches on the live 3.2 PU server, even to as low as 5fps then jumping to 20fps randomly and everything in between. Trying on different setups with 32GB of ram and a newer i7 chips, the frames have been more consistently stable at closer to 30fps.

I've gone up to 30fps on certain servers with an i5 2500k with 8GB, but still running a SSD. Playing in Arena Commander would avg 50+fps and 40+fps in Star Marine.
 

xplatformer

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,896
Los Angeles
Performance was ok when l logged in 15 minutes ago. My Freelancer is no longer glitching.

My complaint? I have a crimestat and I don't know why the hell I do. I retrieved my freelancer...walked around it to see how it looked...Left my ship...

Did I get a crimestat because I didn't take off?
 

Boss

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
951
Been playing around for the last few weeks, mining is fun, the 600i is pretty beautiful, I like the potential of the group systems, quantum jumping improvements and the addition of scanning and some item 2.0 functionality is promising. Still a very long way to go but a decent patch.
 

Dictator

Digital Foundry
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
4,932
Berlin, 'SCHLAND
Yup, didn't know the game apparently requires an SSD. Couldn't higher than 20FPS on the main mode, Arena or the shitty FPS.

I waited 5 years to try this joke of a game again, and it's somehow worse. Disgraceful. I guess I'll try again in 5 more years and hope this scam works then.
It may sound a bit harsh, but you getting annoyed that the game does not perform well when you are below minimum spec for a system component, is rather... well... silly.
 

TheCanisDirus

Member
Nov 13, 2017
2,304
No targeted release date as of now. There is an updated roadmap, but fixes and additions have been pushed back. Alpha phase is still projected into Q1 2019 with estimates of a Beta by 2020. As for the modules, Star Marine (FPS) and Arena Commander (Ship Combat), both will continually be worked on as they are used for testing grounds on the combat of the main game.

If you're waiting for the online MMO portion, Persistent Universe, that will be a long while. Currently, teams are working on both a single player game, Squadron 42 and the PU. Squadron 42 will release before the Persistent Universe, but only the PU is being tested by players.

Yeah i'm mostly interested in the PU portion of SC. I figured it would still be a while but christ 2021+ most likely for initial launch... will be rough. I wonder if any AAA will come along with anything similar by then.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,894
ATL
This is the first time I've been able to run Star Citizen smoothly. I ran it at a mostly locked 30fps! I was also finally able to complete a mission! There was the bug on my first load though where I was stuck in my Port Olisar bedroom.

Anyway, so I had a hilarious experience last night. I did a mission that had me fly to this remote station near Daymar to see if a woman's deceased husband was responsible for the destruction of the station. It took me awhile, but I finally figured out how to actually get inside of the station and began looking around for audio logs and evidence. The experience was surprisingly engaging and it was cool to happen upon other players who were searching around the station. Everyone was pretty nice and helpful. Suddenly though, I start hearing extremely loud sounds of laser turrets shooting towards the station. I start thinking in my head, "Man I really hope some idiot isn't outside shooting my ship while I'm away form it?!" I then hear a loud explosion followed by my ship icon disappearing. I'm like, "NOOOOOOOOO!" I then hear more gun turret fire and hear more explosions...now everyone searching the stations is rushing outside to see what was going on.

We exit the station to a mass ship graveyard. All the stranded players banded together and stated messaging on the chat for help. Surprisingly, there were multiple people who were willing to come pick us up. One player on the chat was like, "I just got my new Avenger Titan, so I have plenty of room for everyone...be there in a few." Several minutes pass, then an Avenger Titan arrives and opens it's rear hatch for us to get in. As the stranded players, including myself, just about made it on board; we hear a ship fly by then load gun fire. The Avenger Titan blows up right in front of us. The chat then lights up saying, "It's a TRAP!!!" The other players who were willing to come pick us up were like, "Sorry guys, you're on your own." The stranded players looked at each other then decided to self-kill lol.
 

xplatformer

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,896
Los Angeles
It may sound a bit harsh, but you getting annoyed that the game does not perform well when you are below minimum spec for a system component, is rather... well... silly.

I think the problems/concerns arise when the "minimum system component" is a moving goal post. The game ran perfectly well on a regular HD just 3 years ago...now you MUST have an SSD? i have a 970 that I specifically bought for Star Citizen because...well...they said I needed it. If the 1070 in two years is the bare minimum why shouldn't I then be upset. Optimization shouldn't mean getting slower.

I will state that my 970 still isn't a bottleneck and I'm hoping that does stay the case over the next two years.

It just seems silly to require an SSD for data access imo.
 

Zalusithix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
461
Did I get a crimestat because I didn't take off?
Can't say I've ever done that, but it probably treated you as landing at a pad you weren't cleared for on logout. Don't spawn ships in PO unless you're planning on actually taking off, or land on pads you're not cleared for landing on. They're basically mimicking real life in that you shouldn't loiter etc. Keep in mind that with any ship with a bed these days that you can log out in the ship anywhere in space and log back in where you logged out.
I just got my new Avenger Titan, so I have plenty of room for everyone...be there in a few." Several minutes pass, then an Avenger Titan arrives and opens it's rear hatch for us to get in. As the stranded players, including myself, just about made it on board; we hear a ship fly by then load gun fire. The Avenger Titan blows up right in front of us. The chat then lights up saying, "It's a TRAP!!!" The other players who were willing to come pick us up were like, "Sorry guys, you're on your own." The stranded players looked at each other then decided to self-kill lol.
Should have known you were screwed when an Avenger Titan was going to be your rescue. =P Unless the threat that blew up all the other ships was gone, there'd be no way the Titan would survive the period of time it'd have to sit there loading you guys up. Not without somebody supporting him at least.
 
Oct 25, 2017
41,368
Miami, FL
Monthly Report images for 3.2:


MediumOutlawTurnAround.jpg


so what is the timeline for fixing this crotches and asses? The ass mine as well be inverted and they could at least give the man a cup.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,227
I think the problems/concerns arise when the "minimum system component" is a moving goal post. The game ran perfectly well on a regular HD just 3 years ago...now you MUST have an SSD? i have a 970 that I specifically bought for Star Citizen because...well...they said I needed it. If the 1070 in two years is the bare minimum why shouldn't I then be upset. Optimization shouldn't mean getting slower.

I will state that my 970 still isn't a bottleneck and I'm hoping that does stay the case over the next two years.

It just seems silly to require an SSD for data access imo.
It's still in development, why would the minimum specs be set in stone at this point? Now is really early to worry about optimization anyway.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,326
Wait, so weapons you bought (with uec outside the pu) don't get returned when you claim a ship? Was messing around with the new Avenger hardpoints and had 2 S3s and main S4, got a crash out of client and it set me back to Olisar. Tried to claim the ship and reoutfit it but my weapons were not there.
 

Zalusithix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
461
Keep in mind that if SC development didn't evolve to take advantage of modern hardware and stuck to the original specs, it'd have to be a game that ran on a dual core system with 4 gigs of RAM and a 400 series GeForce as min spec. (Going by the KS FAQ.) I really doubt anybody wants that game. What's more important to me than performance on a given piece of hardware is consistency of performance, and making the most of available resources. So no wildly fluctuating framerates with hitching, or half loading the CPU, etc. To that end CIG still has their work cut out for them, but they have made improvements. It's just that many of the improvements have been offset by increased player counts on servers, etc. - things that you might not notice if you only pay cursory attention to development.

Don't get me wrong, the game has to be performant enough to run decently on a midrange system upon "release"; it can't just be consistent. The release, however, for better or for worse is still a way's off. A midrange system at that point will be at least as powerful as a bleeding edge one today.
 

Nekyrrev

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,123
This update is actually quiet playable and stable on my system, which is a very good surprise.
It's running at 30 - 40fps without any connexion issue or crash.

My rig is:
i5 3450 - RX 480 8Go - 8Go RAM - SSD

I still think I'll wait 'til 3.3 to really dig in, but it's evolving quiet well :)
 

Muad'dib

Banned
Jun 7, 2018
1,253
Well the game is finally playable for me, after the 3.2 update been getting a 20-30 FPS gameplay, way better than the previous 5-10FPS I was getting.

Managed to finish my first contract, the P.I investigation at Covalex.

Question, does my progress persist now? Because I logged out, or do I have to restart everything after I log back in?

Definitely happy with the progress.
 

Nekyrrev

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,123
Speaking of missions, the game is not giving me a lot of them right now. (in fact, just one and it's done)
How can I find more ?
 

Laconik

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
217
Why is this silly? Game requires a lot of data to be streamed in, so its completely logical to me.

No, it isn't silly as long as this is told to the customer before they pledge or purchase and for that reason, it will probably never release on consoles unless they create branches like Eve Online did for PS3 and PSVR
 

Zalusithix

Member
Oct 25, 2017
461
SC is a game that has been marketed under the banner of being a high end PC game from the get go. Quite frankly, if you're not putting PC games on at least a standard SATA SSD these days, you're doing things wrong. In 2018 spinning rust is more or less purely for media storage and backups - things with low access speed requirements (especially random access), not for the OS and programs.
 

tuxfool

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,858
SC is a game that has been marketed under the banner of being a high end PC game from the get go. Quite frankly, if you're not putting PC games on at least a standard SATA SSD these days, you're doing things wrong. In 2018 spinning rust is more or less purely for media storage and backups - things with low access speed requirements (especially random access), not for the OS and programs.
It is also high time games specifically took advantage of the improved streaming capabilities such a system affords.
 
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