The State of the Democrats

DTC · Jul 1, 2018

Reset era forgets time and time again how many moderate old white voters vote for dems, even now.

why do you think obama won the midwest? why do you think manchin, mccasskill, and tester are leading the polls despite trump winning their states by 20? why do you think progressive Gil Cisneros is losing by 2 in a district Hillary won by 9?

why do you think conor lamb won? that district was 98% white and the median voters age was around 60.

cuz moderation still works.... and no, hillary was not a "moderate" when she ran the most liberal campaign of any dem since George Mcgovern

and yes, a ton of moderate old white voters still vote dem, and no alienating them is a terrible strategy when they will be over 40% of the electorate

every time the democratic party has ever won was with the help of a ton of moderate dems (just look at all of the blue dogs in 2006 and 2008)... dem party has the lowest amount of moderates now than it has ever had in history.

the dem party is far more progressive now than it has ever been in its entire history

i do think dems will be able to get away with being more liberal in 2018... but they will end up throwing away some seats (eg nebraska 2nd)

Alexandros · Jul 1, 2018

DigitalOp said:
I see alot of people tut tuting my moderate points but nobody actually challenging the notion that I said:

They are merely Republicans who don't want the name because they know Republicans are tainted.

Or

They wanna swing their moral dicks about being above "party affiliations"

I'll just assume I'm correct with that observation.

Again... If you still have political reservations against Democrats at this time, youre basically a fucking Republican. Moderates really don't exist in this climate.

The only apprehension you should have torwards Democrats at this moment is that theyre weak as fuck. But that has nothing to do with their policies.

I think there is a significant part of the population that just doesn't give a fuck about anything that doesn't concern it directly and votes based on its own self-interest. You need to give these people something that appeals to them in order to get them to get off their couches and vote for you.

I've seen two gifs posted on ERA pretty frequently, in which a talk show host I don't know says something to the tune of "if you vote for Trump it doesn't mean that you hate me, it just means that you don't care about me". Forgive me if I'm paraphrasing, I couldn't find the actual gif. When I first saw these gifs my first thought was "how is this news to anybody?". Voters are generally pretty selfish and you really shouldn't count on them doing the right thing because it's the right thing. This last election proved that pretty conclusively I think.

I think the best strategy for the Democrats is this: One, identify the voter groups that you need in order to win. Two, laser-focus on a couple of issues that are important to these groups and convince them that you have a plan to solve them. And three, pick a presidential candidate that can actually inspire people that things will be better if he or she is elected to office.

Addie · Jul 1, 2018

I 100% agree with Alexandria here: consistently and deliberately swing left (lol) in safe districts while understanding that embattled seats (like Manchin's) deserve more leeway.

What we're missing is that concerted, deliberate effort. People would care less about the Manchins of the world if there was actually a leftward shift in places where it's actually sustainable. Rural WV voters who may accept Manchin and hate Dem leadership aren't going to suddenly change their voting patterns if Pelosi/Schumer actually articulate a progressive platform and abandon calls for "civility." Bluntly, it may even work better for Red State Dems, since they can stress another difference between themselves and the party apparatus ("I've got a proven track record of reaching across the aisle and I understand how to work with Republicans").

PanickyFool · Jul 1, 2018

This thread completely focuses on national politics, while ignoring how much useless Democrats still are at the state and local level.

That is where lasting reform comes from. The reason why the 2020 conversation is revolving around decrepit geriatrics is because there is no pressure in the Democratic party for aggressive growth at the state and local level.

Cipherr · Jul 1, 2018

Daily reminder that we have been picking up seats by the literal dozen since the orange clown got into office.

No matter what the empty heads keep telling you about how 'weak the party is' and how much we are 'getting our asses kicked' and how 'nothings been learned since the election'. Back in reality, we are absolutely crushing it. Vote this fall and keep it going.

Democrats flip 42nd state legislative seat since Trump took office
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/05/politics/democrats-flip-state-senate-seat-missouri/index.html

Hassel · Jul 1, 2018

I think alienating moderates is the worst possible strategy to defeat trump.

DigitalOp · Jul 1, 2018

bangai-o said:
I think it has been pretty well established by now that a large portion of this country does not care about those.

Tfritz said:
I feel like I've identified a core issue with the whole premise of your argument my friend.

I'll give you that. One could say if facts don't matter then wtf are we here for.

Kthulhu said:
Are you referring to elections? Because if you are this is completely untrue, as Democrats have been winning in a bunch of elections since Trump took office.

Also, reaching out to swing voters is somewhat necessary. I think going after moderate Republicans is dumb idea and should never be attempted again, but the focus should be on getting your base to show up.

I don't think Dems getting involved with Trump's childish antics is a good strategy, we are better off using those issues to pivot the media's attention to the issues Dems are running on.

Dems are winning in response to Clown being woefully incompetent. If nomalcy ever does return, Dems need to preserve the same energy they're showing here. And they need to remain serious and focused

Kthulhu said:
This is not true though. Swing voters absolutely do exist and are essential in close races.

Edit: there are many people who voted for Obama in 08 and voted for Trump in 2016, and there are people who voted for Obama in 2012 who didn't vote at all in 2016.

That's just dumb as fuck. I would say that you couldn't even target them because they're so widely inconsistent. One year is this issue they align with, another year it's completely different. They have no consistency, you can't plan or focus on that.

Megalosaro said:
You're a stupid mother fucker if you think "letting go" of centralist and moderates is the way to go. That is a surefire way to never win another election ever again.

The demonization of them on this forum is so myopic it's ridiculous. I can see demonizing Republicans. But most moderates and centralist are definitely not the enemy.

You can't have a fully liberal party if you have moderates dragging your ass back to the 1800s policy wise.

Yeah sure, they pick and choose when voting Democrat is convenient for them and yes they are necessary as people have explained with swing states.

But these people had an absolute moral failure in 2016. It's funny people talk about purity tests, and voting for Clown was like the base level easiest thing you could avoid and they still couldn't do that.

Voting for Clown is an absolute failure of progressive policy and social reform. I fail to see how such people will ever help Democrats move forward socially if they are willing to yank a vote for personal gain.

Alexandros · Jul 1, 2018

legacyzero said:
Are you Nancy Pelosi's Era account? :P

Lol, I can neither confirm nor deny.

Deleted member 11985 · Jul 1, 2018

I agree that the democratic party needs to get more progressive, but it is absolutely imperative that you still vote democrat in the midterms this year. I'm sure a lot of you would agree, but I feel like it bears repeating every time there's a thread about the state of the democratic party.

PanickyFool · Jul 1, 2018

Cipherr said:
Daily reminder that we have been picking up seats by the literal dozen since the orange clown got into office.

No matter what the empty heads keep telling you about how 'weak the party is' and how much we are 'getting our asses kicked' and how 'nothings been learned since the election'. Back in reality, we are absolutely crushing it. Vote this fall and keep it going.

Democrats flip 42nd state legislative seat since Trump took office
https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/05/politics/democrats-flip-state-senate-seat-missouri/index.html

Let's not pretend like we Dems are anywhere near close.
Governors:

Legislator: http://www.ncsl.org/research/about-state-legislatures/partisan-composition.aspx

Deleted member 22649 · Jul 1, 2018

PanickyFool said:
This thread completely focuses on national politics, while ignoring how much useless Democrats still are at the state and local level.

That is where lasting reform comes from. The reason why the 2020 conversation is revolving around decrepit geriatrics is because there is no pressure in the Democratic party for aggressive growth at the state and local level.

OK. How do we change that?

y2dvd · Jul 1, 2018

compo said:
I agree that the democratic party needs to get more progressive, but it is absolutely imperative that you still vote democrat in the midterms this year. I'm sure a lot of you would agree, but I feel like it bears repeating every time there's a thread about the state of the democratic party.

I don't see how this is any better principled than the republicans that just falls in line. Dems needs to now earn our votes. I would think quit blaming the voters and start blaming candidates imo.

RedSwirl · Jul 1, 2018

There was something on 538 (I'm on mobile right now) that suggested moderate and centrist voters are actually "a statistical myth." Landing in the moderate zone on the scale might come from a combination of views on opposite extremes.

VectorPrime · Jul 1, 2018

PanickyFool said:
Let's not pretend like we Dems are anywhere near close.
Governors:

Legislator: http://www.ncsl.org/research/about-state-legislatures/partisan-composition.aspx

All signs point to Dems flipping around 10 governors this November.

Deleted member 11985 · Jul 1, 2018

y2dvd said:
I don't see how this is any better principled than the republicans that just falls in line. Dems needs to now earn our votes. I would think quit blaming the voters and start blaming candidates imo.

The US is a two party system whether you like it or not. So not voting democrat is basically voting republican.

You can argue idealistic principles all day, but that's the reality for the 2018 midterms. Now is not the time to lose another election to idealism. There were literal kiddie concentration camps just last week.

DigitalOp · Jul 1, 2018

Volimar said:
I think most people didn't bother challenging that because it seemed like you were just lashing out and because what you said doesn't make sense. People are moderates because that is where their beliefs lie. You can't just erase that they have their views because they're not the same ones we have. That's just silly and unrealistic.

Here's why I call bullshit on that notion.

Because Republicans fell off a far right cliff by backing Clown. They fully embraced regressive and xenophobic policies as a result. What the hell could you possibly agree with that this administration is pushing?

Any sane individual saw what they were pushing and immediately denounced it. Republicans chose to go lock step and fall in line as a result.

This is an excuse. This is trying to claim bigotry as a political belief. That's doesn't fly for majority of people. A party trying to demonize other Americans for existing does not fly over here. Us denouncing their hatred is not an equivalent. It's a deserved reaction.

There's no room for centricism here. Republicans are so far right, they have destroyed centricism. Nobody seems to realize this, they're just comfortable trying to make excuses and handwave it away as if Republicans still possibly have some legitimacy as a political party in 2018.

All the responses in the thread are great, and I'm glad people are discussing different views.

This furthers my thought that there actually is a need for a new political party. One that can focus on far left issues, this could give Democrats room to move more center, and the others can happily join the cavemen on their regressive stances.

Everyones happy.

Volimar · Jul 1, 2018

DigitalOp said:
Here's why I call bullshit on that notion.

Because Republicans fell off a far right cliff by backing Clown. They fully embraced regressive and xenophobic policies as a result. What the hell could you possibly agree with that this administration is pushing?

Any sane individual saw what they were pushing and immediately denounced it. Republicans chose to go lock step and fall in line as a result.

This is an excuse. This is trying to claim bigotry as a political belief. That's doesn't fly for majority of people. A party trying to demonize other Americans for existing does not fly over here. Us denouncing their hatred is not an equivalent. It's a deserved reaction.

There's no room for centricism here. Republicans are so far right, they have destroyed centricism. Nobody seems to realize this, they're just comfortable trying to make excuses and handwave it away as if Republicans still possibly have some legitimacy as a political party in 2018.

All the responses in the thread are great, and I'm glad people are discussing different views.

This furthers my thought that there actually is a need for a new political party. One that can focus on far left issues, this could give Democrats room to move more center, and the others can happily join the cavemen on their regressive stances.

Everyones happy.

Moderate dems denounced it too, but seeing far right policies in action doesn't necessarily push your views further left.

Kthulhu · Jul 1, 2018

DigitalOp said:
Dems are winning in response to Clown being woefully incompetent. If nomalcy ever does return, Dems need to preserve the same energy they're showing here. And they need to remain serious and focused

I agree that the energy needs to be maintained, but saying this is all just anger is unfair to the many people working hard to get people elected.

DigitalOp said:
That's just dumb as fuck. I would say that you couldn't even target them because they're so widely inconsistent. One year is this issue they align with, another year it's completely different. They have no consistency, you can't plan or focus on that.

We should at least try and find out why they changed. If they can be brought back into the fold then we definitely should try.

CharMomone · Jul 1, 2018

Megalosaro said:
You're a stupid mother fucker if you think "letting go" of centralist and moderates is the way to go. That is a surefire way to never win another election ever again.

The demonization of them on this forum is so myopic it's ridiculous. I can see demonizing Republicans. But most moderates and centralist are definitely not the enemy.

I agree, I'd even go as far as saying the democratic purity test is one of the (albeit many) reasons why we have Trump in office now.

Brinksman · Jul 1, 2018

y2dvd said:
I don't see how this is any better principled than the republicans that just falls in line. Dems needs to now earn our votes. I would think quit blaming the voters and start blaming candidates imo.

You've somehow come up with a premise that your only opposition party must do better to earn your vote, when your corrupt Republican government led by a maniac is absolutely raping your country and the wider West beyond much modern precedent with its appetite for senseless destruction and regression. If I were you I would begin with the premise that I must do everything in my power to obliterate my destructive Republican party, and then I can luxuriate in my principles when the Democrats' policies become the lowest common denominator to take for granted.

legacyzero · Jul 1, 2018

Aevum said:
I am not suggesting my society is ideal in the least, but something which always throws things into perspective for me is that your Democrats are currently about on par with the most right wing political parties to be found in my country, ones which our populists despise. In a corrective reality you would actually be vilifying the Democrats and stanning for another, more progressive hypothetical party instead, but you have your cancerous Republicans who manage to shift the entire narrative to a retrograde scenario, transforming principles such as fundamental human rights into hotly debated topics.

This post needs more attention. Damn good.

captive · Jul 1, 2018

So the democratic version of the tea party then?

And sorry but you still need moderates and centrists.

DigitalOp · Jul 1, 2018

Volimar said:
Moderate dems denounced it too, but seeing far right policies in action doesn't necessarily push your views further left.

I understand however in a 2018 Republican Administration, what views are these moderates holding on too that they agree with so much?

It's not Bush Era Conservatism. Clown didn't run on that. Clown ran on 'Tea Party on crack' aka MAGA conservatism.

People can't hide behind Old Conservatism being a draw. That's not what the agenda is currently. It's not what they ran on.

You either like the bigotry. Or you voted down ballot, because mommy and daddy have been red since day one.

Sanjuro · Jul 1, 2018

This sounds more like voting third party than anything.

Prophaniti · Jul 1, 2018

legacyzero said:
All this crying about purity tests. It always makes me giggle. And it's always the ones that won't purity test the people they support, but will DAMN sure test the purity of the ones they don't.

Don't want a purity test? Be fucking pure. Hold your elected officials to a standard, or stop pretending you care so much about the issues

Jesus Christ. So basically dont be deplorable. Sure wish we had run on that platform last time.

I dont care about your purity. I'm not in the purity business. I'm in the business of abolishing internment camps for babies. I dont honestly care who I have to pander too if it prevents the implosion of my country and of basic human decency.

I actually read what you put a few times and I'm assuming you were talking against my point and not for it.

Midnight Jon · Jul 1, 2018

Aevum said:
but something which always throws things into perspective for me is that your Democrats are currently about on par with the most right wing political parties to be found in my country

...which country are we talking about, exactly

PanickyFool · Jul 1, 2018

captive said:
So the democratic version of the tea party then?

And sorry but you still need moderates and centrists.

It was tried and the DNC crushed it.

Say what you will about the GOP, but internally they are far more Democratic than the DNC.

-PXG- · Jul 1, 2018

Tron1 said:
Not a political guy at all. With that being said they are fucked. I don't see anyone that has what it takes to challenge trump in 2020. Am I naive to think that?

I share you cynicism.

Trump won because the left was over confident and downplayed the right's ability to pander to people's fear, anxiety and ignorance. Same thing will happen again, unless some serious shit goes down.

Left leaning voters will be too depressed, hopeless and disenchanted to go out and vote. Meanwhile, misguided Trump supporters and centrist/ right leaning white America, will once again, betray the rest of us with their lack of empathy and good judgement, and vote for that orange hued asshole for a second term.

Dragon Puncher · Jul 1, 2018

TheGhost said:
Trump didn't get voted in because he is smart or even believable, it was the country saying fuck Hillary and refusing to vote for her.

While Hillary was a bad candidate putting it entirely on her isn't fair.

It wasn't just people saying "Fuck Hillary" it was people saying "Fuck American politics". Obama promised change, but in many ways didn't deliver. When Trump keept not giving a shit about respectable behavior and ethics or any of the usual things politicians answer to, he probably looked like the guy who could deliver the change people still longed for.

It's real bad sign for democracy, that people would vote for a lying, corrupt and sexcist man just to get something new, but I truly feel like that was Trumps biggest asset.

Whats even worse though, is that he's able to stay in power with everything that come out and all he's said and done to hurt Americas image, economy and policies. If the system doesn't show it's able to unseat him (and specifically that Republicans show there is a line they aren't willing to cross), I feel like America is just heading towards another (more competent) dictator, even if Trump loses in 2022.

Kthulhu · Jul 1, 2018

DigitalOp said:
I understand however in a 2018 Republican Administration, what views are these moderates holding on too that they agree with so much?

It's not Bush Era Conservatism. Clown didn't run on that. Clown ran on 'Tea Party on crack' aka MAGA conservatism.

People can't hide behind Old Conservatism being a draw. That's not what the agenda is currently. It's not what they ran on.

You either like the bigotry. Or you voted down ballot, because mommy and daddy have been red since day one.

A lot of Republicans didn't want him to win the nomination but voted for him anyway because the right wing media gives them a sensitised version of him while painting the Dems as a caricature of themselves. To them it is a choice between monsters and a party that is slightly to the right of them.

Keep in mind turnout was awful for the GOP in 2016 too, so a lot of Republicans probably didn't vote at all.

DigitalOp · Jul 1, 2018

It's a purity test to not align yourself with an outwardly bigoted party by any means?

Are y'all serious with this?

Really?

Tfritz · Jul 1, 2018

PanickyFool said:
It was tried and the DNC crushed it.

Please elaborate, because it sure seems like the DSA is making some progress.

Pet · Jul 1, 2018

Border said:
"Let's abandon and shame those whose viewpoint isn't as progressive as mine" seems like a recipe for failure.

Yeah. I actually absolutely despise this idea.

Let's say the next Democratic candidate is super progressive.

What we need to do is to get the moderates to vote for them. Be nice to them. Say nice, reasonable things. Reason it out, highlight the candidate's moderate positions, not talk about the more progressive positions. They'll vote for our candidate, and then our candidate can do what they were going to do anyway.

No one is going to switch sides just because their candidate is a little more progressive and a little more kind and a little more just. They'll probably end up telling themselves that they were like that all along, especially if their chosen candidate keeps getting "wins."

Just look at the Repubs. Even the moderates on their side have no problem somehow justifying the shit Trump does, especially when they're fed lies and propoganda 24/7 via Fox and other kinds of programming.

We need to face reality and accept that many people simply don't care enough, and we need NUMBERS to win. Once the Dems are in power, they can stack the Supreme Court, Congress, and White House. That's what the GOP did, and they're doing an amazing job of ramming their policies through.

If the Dems do that, we can ensure fairness and equality for all people. If we do it in gradual enough steps, a lot of the nation won't realize just how progressive the agenda is.

Also if I sound like some horrible manipulative psychopathic politician, well, that's because I'm using the conservative playbook. But they're doing this and they're getting their way. This is America. Most of the leaders here are psychopaths. America is a country that rewards those kinds of people. And trust me, to win against a psychopath, you have to beat them at their own game. You'll never be able to win them over with pleas for empathy.

Brinksman · Jul 1, 2018

Midnight Jon said:
...which country are we talking about, exactly

Ireland. We don't really have regressive right-wing parties of any note right now. Our governing party, though of fascist origin upon going back the better part of a century, effectively consists of mildly nationalist, very pro-middle class centrists today. They have their wings clipped in a shaky coalition arrangement, and recently (eventually) pushed through gay marriage rights and abortion legislation, enjoying landslide victories in both referendums. Most other factions here lean roughly equivalent or further left in one sense or another. I am not suggesting whatsoever that our people or society are above worse political norms than these in any way, not even as we speak, but when I consider it, I would wish these current political norms on others. I wish they would help inspire allies in the USA.

Alexandros · Jul 1, 2018

DigitalOp said:
It's a purity test to not align yourself with an outwardly bigoted party by any means?

Are y'all serious with this?

Really?

You need to be a bit more cynical in politics. If the numbers say that you need some votes by those people who voted for the bigots in order to win, then you should try and get those votes.

Midnight Jon · Jul 1, 2018

Aevum said:
Ireland. We don't really have regressive right-wing parties of any note right now. Our governing party, though of fascist origin upon going back the better part of a century, effectively consists of mildly nationalist, very pro-middle class centrists today. They have their wings clipped in a shaky coalition arrangement, and recently (eventually) pushed through gay marriage rights and abortion legislation, enjoying landslide victories in both referendums. Most other factions here lean roughly equivalent or further left in one sense or another. I am not suggesting whatsoever that our people or society are above worse political norms than these in any way, not even as we speak, but when I consider it, I would wish these current political norms on others. I wish they would help inspire allies in the USA.

incidentally that's one of basically... three? Eurozone countries where I was gonna say "yeah, that all actually sounds about right"

(no further questions, your honor)

TyrantGuardian · Jul 1, 2018

Just strategically split up the party based on local representation. The parts of the country that are ready for socialism infiltrate up to 50% of the party and cause the Overton window to expand further left than it ever has in US history and let the moderates keep the middle aged rich white votes represented. There's no need to bicker over it at this point. Take over the country, shut out Republicans permanently until the party disbands then split off from the Moderate party and form a real socialist party. Ezpz (I wish, but that's one plausible scenario down the road at least.)

y2dvd · Jul 1, 2018

compo said:
The US is a two party system whether you like it or not. So not voting democrat is basically voting republican.

You can argue idealistic principles all day, but that's the reality for the 2018 midterms. Now is not the time to lose another election to idealism. There were literal kiddie concentration camps just last week.

Aevum said:
You've somehow come up with a premise that your only opposition party must do better to earn your vote, when your corrupt Republican government led by a maniac is absolutely raping your country and the wider West beyond much modern precedent with its appetite for senseless destruction and regression. If I were you I would begin with the premise that I must do everything in my power to obliterate my destructive Republican party, and then I can luxuriate in my principles when the Democrats' policies become the lowest common denominator to take for granted.

This line of thought is what kept the party stagnant and we lost. If they think they will get our votes anyways, why move further left? This lost is forcing us to reexamine the identity of the party and is forcing candidates to move left now. Saying we are better than Trump simply isn't enough.

lunarworks · Jul 1, 2018

The Democrats are in a sorry state right now, but this constant harping on them online and in the media feels like an orchestrated attempt to demoralize voters and prevent the party from moving ahead.

TheGhost · Jul 1, 2018

Dragon Puncher said:
While Hillary was a bad candidate putting it entirely on her isn't fair.

It wasn't just people saying "Fuck Hillary" it was people saying "Fuck American politics". Obama promised change, but in many ways didn't deliver. When Trump keept not giving a shit about respectable behavior and ethics or any of the usual things politicians answer to, he probably looked like the guy who could deliver the change people still longed for.

It's real bad sign for democracy, that people would vote for a lying, corrupt and sexcist man just to get something new, but I truly feel like that was Trumps biggest asset.

Whats even worse though, is that he's able to stay in power with everything that come out and all he's said and done to hurt Americas image, economy and policies. If the system doesn't show it's able to unseat him (and specifically that Republicans show there is a line they aren't willing to cross), I feel like America is just heading towards another (more competent) dictator, even if Trump loses in 2022.

In a way it was Obama's biggest assest as well
"Something new/something different"
You're right, the average American can't stand politics, hates talking about it, hates seeing it, they hate even having to go vote. I think Trump got voted just as much because "he is a business man, he doesn't give a fuck about Washington" as much as his racism. When you put something like that against a horrible candidate like Clinton, yeah disaster happens on a world stage.

Americans don't care what the outside world thinks of them. Why should they? Once again, their day to day does not change.

Pomerlaw · Jul 1, 2018

Prophaniti said:
Alienate moderates. Purity test all dems. Fantastic idea. I'm glad we've learned nothing.

Amazing huh. "I'm not voting because my perfect candidate doesn't exist yet" is part of the reason why Trump may win again in 2020.

DigitalOp · Jul 1, 2018

Alexandros said:
You need to be a bit more cynical in politics. If the numbers say that you need some votes by those people who voted for the bigots in order to win, then you should try and get those votes.

Sounds like a paradox if I ever heard one. Why would ever expect bigots to vote for a party that supported mainly by minorties. That's half the reason they despise it.

The ones who are swing voters can't be accounted for. They vote Republican because they had a bad day and vote Democrat because they had a nice vacation.

There's no actual consistancy. You can't target them in any meaningful way.

FreedomFighter · Jul 1, 2018

Totally agree with all four points in the OP.

I will not vote Democrat in the next Presidential election if there is another corporate-funded Democrat nominated to run.

I will GLADLY vote third party again like I did last time.

And I will never forget how toxic it got from the loyal Dem posters in the old sunken place. They were a mob of bullies, attacking anyone who didn't vote Democrat. They were especially vitriolic toward people who voted 3rd party too. Dem mods banning people over that shit. I hope that Era will not be like that next election season.

I realized that some people identified with being a Democrat before even a identifying as a homo sapien. It's pretty nuts.

Kirblar · Jul 1, 2018

A 50 state strategy works.

The ideas put forth in the OP do not. The endgame of doing that and not allowing candidates in deep red areas to distance themselves from the rest of the party is a party split. Which liberals across the world may love as a form of expressing their political identity, but which is disastrous for actually obtaining power in a FPTP system (Hi Canada!)

This is the reality of the Senate and EC. The white rural areas have too much power. White voters are near-exclusively swing voters, meaning campaign messaging will be heavily devoted to sounding good to them. And you cannot rely on base turnout in states where the Dems don't have a base. The GOP can win the presidency without the popular vote for another few decades because the actual voting demos and population distribution aren't altering fast enough to outweigh the national gerrymander. If the Dems get power, they need to add as many new States as possible.

The reason the Dems have been the minority party in America for the past 50 years isn't because they don't know how to fight, it's because white America is pretty damn racist and that racism reacted to Civil Rights. There's a reason Obama spent months and months in cornfields shiting on NAFTA to try to win over those types with a different form of Xenophobia. That's who they are.

And calling receipts doesn't work because bullshit is easier to spread than refute.

DigitalOp said:
There's no actual consistancy. You can't target them in any meaningful way.

This is largely true in a macro sense. The Dems don't have to do much of anything to win in November, Trump being historically unpopular will do it for them.

DigitalOp · Jul 1, 2018

Pomerlaw said:
Amazing huh. "I'm not voting because my perfect candidate doesn't exist yet" is part of the reason why Trump may win again in 2020.

Okay.

Now y'all just making shit up.

Where did I say don't vote if you don't like your choices?

Fucking read the thread. Stop the meme takes.

Alexandros · Jul 1, 2018

DigitalOp said:
Sounds like a paradox if I ever heard one. Why would ever expect bigots to vote for a party that supported mainly by minorties. That's half the reason they despise it.

The ones who are swing voters can't be accounted for. They vote Republican because they had a bad day and vote Democrat because they had a nice vacation.

There's no actual consistancy. You can't target them in any meaningful way.

That's why I said earlier that the Democrats should focus on a couple of issues that these swing voters care about and really hammer home the point that they will address them.

Deleted member 36708 · Jul 1, 2018

-PXG- said:
I share you cynicism.

Trump won because the left was over confident and downplayed the right's ability to pander to people's fear, anxiety and ignorance. Same thing will happen again, unless some serious shit goes down.

Left leaning voters will be too depressed, hopeless and disenchanted to go out and vote. Meanwhile, misguided Trump supporters and centrist/ right leaning white America, will once again, betray the rest of us with their lack of empathy and good judgement, and vote for that orange hued asshole for a second term.

That's what I see but people are telling me I am wrong. I guess we will see.

DigitalOp · Jul 1, 2018

Alexandros said:
That's why I said earlier that the Democrats should focus on a couple of issues that these swing voters care about and really hammer home the point that they will address them.

#1 Swing Vote issue is Abortion.

Dems aren't moving on it. You already lost a decent swath of Swing Voters.

I'm adamant you just cant count on these people.

I'm trying to think of other swing issues.

captive · Jul 1, 2018

DigitalOp said:
I understand however in a 2018 Republican Administration, what views are these moderates holding on too that they agree with so much?

It's not Bush Era Conservatism. Clown didn't run on that. Clown ran on 'Tea Party on crack' aka MAGA conservatism.

People can't hide behind Old Conservatism being a draw. That's not what the agenda is currently. It's not what they ran on.

You either like the bigotry. Or you voted down ballot, because mommy and daddy have been red since day one.

but that's not how they view it.

1 there are a sizeable amount of catholics, Christians etc that will always vote R for abortion

2 there are a sizeable amount of conservatives that voted for the Tax cuts, and Supreme Court picks. (say what you will about Republicans no longer being fiscal conservatives, but that's not what they tell the people and what conservative media tell them)

Despite popular belief there are likely people out there that voted for both Obama and and Trump. I saw a Twitter thread from a lady that ran a campaign office for Obama. She was black, and the way she tells the story these white college kids come back from cavasing. They are ashen white and she asks them what's wrong. They tell her how they were at a house where a lady answered the door, they asked if they knew who they were voting for, she yells back to her husband "who are we voting for" and they hear him yell back "the n*****"

Kirblar · Jul 1, 2018

captive said:
but that's not how they view it.

1 there are a sizeable amount of catholics, Christians etc that will always vote R for abortion

2 there are a sizeable amount of conservatives that voted for the Tax cuts, and Supreme Court picks. (say what you will about Republicans no longer being fiscal conservatives, but that's not what they tell the people and what conservative media tell them)

Despite popular belief there are likely people out there that voted for both Obama and and Trump. I saw a Twitter thread from a lady that ran a campaign office for Obama. She was black, and the way she tells the story these white college kids come back from cavasing. They are ashen white and she asks them what's wrong. They tell her how they were at a house where a lady answered the door, they asked if they knew who they were voting for, she yells back to her husband "who are we voting for" and they hear him yell back "the n*****"

That story is pointing out that w/ the Iraq War/Recession Obama was getting votes from straight up racist people w/ how unpopular the GOP was at the time.

But as the 2010 tea party wave showed, people have very shower memories.

DigitalOp said:
#1 Swing Vote issue is Abortion.

Dems aren't moving on it. You already lost a decent swath of Swing Voters.

I'm adamant you just cant count on these people.

I'm trying to think of other swing issues.

Abortion is not a swing issue. Voters who value abortion as the #1 issue don't vote for Dems. If a Dem doesn't have a pure pro-life view it's generally their personal beliefs.

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