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Oct 25, 2017
14,741
Sunleth Waterscape, Sazh's Theme and Daddy's Got the Blues are so good. I always come back to them.

And that battle theeeeeeeeme

I appreciate the great soundtrack, and the battle system was fun to just mash through while rocking out to the awesome battle theme.
I actually think i'm in the very small minority of people who enjoyed XIII and didn't like XIII-2.
I got you. XIII-2 was wack.

Didn't play Lightning Returns yet.
 

Deleted member 18347

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,572
On this topic, I feel like XII gets too much of a pass.

Sure, it did some great things. The gambit system, the NPCs that react to changes that happen in the world constantly, Balthier and a couple other characters, the open world design, etc...

But the story itself is boring af. A snooze fest that's just very well voice acted, that's all it is. And the gambit system is fun to tinker with but more often than not I find my party in combat situations to be on auto pilot.

And the main character is the worst in all of the FF games I've played. XIII and XV MCs drive circles around Vaan. Literally the only nuance to his character is that he's this little shit who keeps talking about becoming a sky pirate.

And the soundtrack... I know some people like it but I think it is mediocre at best. Run of the mill vg music. X, XIII, XV all have their unique flair and quality melody composition. Music doesn't have to be catchy to be good. But XII does absolutely nothing. Just nothing in this regard.

Overall, it's a better game than XIII and XV, I'll give it that much. The judges as villains and their armor, some top notch character design right there. But the potential is spoiled, and to me it's not how a FF title should ever be handled again.

Simple fixes like a more interesting mc, a soundtrack on par with the rest of the series, some improvements to the gambit system and a plot that deviates from the serious tone every other mission at least would've probably made this one of my fav entries. But alas.

XIII was supposed to be a return to the sentimental storytelling style of older games, but I think that's when SE started to lose the plot big time. They gradually became more and more reliant on fan feedback, and I'm sure combined with a dwindling creative drive, they started to make games that give off the illusion of grandeur when they're just shallow romps through shallow worlds. But the music was excellent, and the battle system was kind of fun until you learn Libra. Once you've learned it you could almost Libra your way through the critical path to the end credits.

I actually have a hard time deciding which is worse, XIII or XV. Both do things very differently, but are equal in how underwhelming they are.
 

ULTROS!

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,474
Personally, I think it's bad if you're coming playing and completing the older FF games because one major issue of this game is that it's streamlined and lacks content compared to the older FF games.

If you're coming in as an FF newbie, it's fine because it'll make it easier to get into the series compared to say... XII. XII is a bit more core-ish due to the mechanics, customization, and loads of content.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,756
12 was always good. 13 was never good. It's not the worst game ever, but for the FF series it's scraping the bottom of the barrel.
 

lusca_bueno

Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,472
Already is to me. I get people were frustrated by how the final product didn't deliver an "everything" Final Fantasy, but it has undeniable artistic value that FAR surpasses FFXV, which is a much bigger attempt at visuals, well, at least for mediocre environment. FFXIII has amazing environment design in spite of its poor level design, and I can appreciate that. But personally I think it helped that I wasn't keeping my expectations high, so maybe if I had my hopes in FFXV level, it would turn into a bad experience.

Anyway, I love XIII-1, also love Lightning, she was a really cool refreshing character for the time. And even though she was totally destroyed in the sequels, they were also fine games in their own merits. So I can say I enjoyed the trilogy much more than other FF experiences I had.
 

StuBurns

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
7,273
It's better than XIII-2, Type-0 and XV so... Probably?

It was rubbish, but it had great combat, art and graphics. Well made cutscenes. XII is a hot mess too, but it's going to now be regarded in the light of the new version, which while still weak, does solve some issues.
 

BadWolf

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,148
I did a media blackout pre-release and went in blind for the most part. Ended up loving it and the sequels.

Awesome world and premise and the music was fantastic, great combat system too.

Fang forever.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,109
I at least finished 13. 12 was so disinteresting I tapped out after 20 hours. After 15 though, I did come to appreciate the wealth of cinematics it had compared to 15's like.. 7.
 

sora87

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,868
Same. Did not like XIII 2.

Lightning Returns is very unique though

I got you. XIII-2 was wack.

Didn't play Lightning Returns yet.

HGDpVoC.gif
 

pants

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,196
Everything Gran Pulse was cool, some of the soundtrack was really good, and a couple of the characters were genuinely solid (Fang and Sazh).

I think its a monument to Squeenix having no idea what it was doing and with time will be fitting for a thirteenth entry of a longstanding beloved series
 

koutoru

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,313
I honestly enjoyed XIII and XIII - 2 while also later understanding the criticisms others had about those games.
Lighting Returns however I couldn't even bring myself to finish.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
76,219
Providence, RI
While we're on the subject, Lightning Returns was a huge disappointment for me. The battle system was fun but it wasn't what I wanted from the story.

After XIII-2, I had an image in my mind of XIII-3 bringing back the "full party" aspect. The game would start with Snow, Sazh and Noel trying to "rescue" Lightning from her stone enclosure. That would be the first mission of the game. Eventually, you would "save" Serah and take on Caius with with the full party of XIII along with Noel.

Having Lightning as the only playable character in a world so different that it basically could have been a new IP was so damn disappointing.
 

Ultimadrago

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,144
I mean I still hate Final Fantasy XII and XIII since release. I will give myself an A+ for consistency!
 

Vicious17

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,293
Why should it be? It isnt a good game no matter how you look at it. FFXIII-2 is decent, on the other hand.
 

Deleted member 18347

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,572
Everything Gran Pulse was cool, some of the soundtrack was really good, and a couple of the characters were genuinely solid (Fang and Sazh).

I think its a monument to Squeenix having no idea what it was doing and with time will be fitting for a thirteenth entry of a longstanding beloved series
This I don't get. What was so good about Gran Pulse? An empty world filled with nothing but monsters to kill.

Looked nice with the flying beasts and what not, accompanied with great music. Overall though, I think it was shit.
 

Vicious17

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,293
Would you have enjoyed the game more if it wasn't called Final Fantasy?

The opposite, if anything. It being called Final Fantasy is the only reason I ever played it in the first place. If it wasn't, it'd be in the same category as those generic JRPGs that keep coming out. Albeit with high quality visuals.
 

joe_zazen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,490
Mass meme brainwashing means xIII will never be appreciated for what it is: the best FF game.

Moreover, I cant believe some think it is the worst. I mean those first three games...ooof.
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,200
In like a decade when people try to have obscure non-mainstream interests they will pretend to like XIII.

13-2 is ok tho
 

Vicious17

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,293
This I don't get. What was so good about Gran Pulse? An empty world filled with nothing but monsters to kill.

Looked nice with the flying beasts and what not, accompanied with great music. Overall though, I think it was shit.


It was cool in comparison with the rest of the game, imo. Spending hours upon hours in one way hallways and then coming across this massive sprawling area was refreshing.

Come to think of it, FFXV does the exact opposite.

Mass meme brainwashing means xIII will never be appreciated for what it is: the best FF game.

Moreover, I cant believe some think it is the worst. I mean those first three games...ooof.

Agree to disagree on XIII, but other than FF2 and FF3 (the NES ones), the rest were solid.
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,831
13 is one of those games I plan on revisiting at some point in the near future. I've come to appreciate the more automatic nature of Xenoblade Chronicles 2's battle system, so I'm curious to see what I think of 13's.
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,386
The soundtrack & visuals are great. The combat system is great BUT only with 3 character parties and you spend a lot of the first 20 hours or so with only 2 characters in your party at a time.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
It's one of my favorite FF so yeah, maybe. It's no a bad game in any way so I never understand that argument.

Soundtrack, Battle System and Lightining are my favorite parts of the game. Put her in KH, Nomura, pls
 

joe_zazen

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,490
It's always been appreciated to me.

XIII is a great game. Flawed but still great. Amazing battle system, one of the best soundtracks of all time and I quite enjoy the characters. I'll take XIII over the unfinished XV with its poor battle system any single day.

That battle system was so fun, style and substance. Shame ff is now an action rpg.
 
Last edited:

Spacejaws

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,824
Scotland
I think XII's apprieciation isn't really about XIII's lack off, but more reflection on the game away from its released period.

For me any and others I knew the hype to XII following X was pretty huge but the game came out in that style over substance period where faith in SE FF had started to wane. Advent Children was a minor dissapointment, Dirge of Cerberus was loathed and they released an MMO which while being hugely succesful alienated a large part of the audience who played Final Fantasy's. Five years after FFX had people in tears they boot up FFXII where it feels like the battle system is a bit of a remix of an MMO and a lot blander. Marketed characters are ass (and I think a lot of reflection now is able to look past these black spots), the license board was pretty basic, too reminiscent of the sphere grid and made everybody kinda copycat characters, espers were almosy useless and quickenings not far behind it for its resource draining and the story is weak and convoluted.

So while it is not a bad game I'd day following on from FFX's stellar experience it really felt like a pretty looking half assed let down. I played it again recently and I still think it's a rough gem, the speed up feature and job assigning really helped.

For FFXIII I don't think it really had anything similar going for it at release. It did all the same stuff except looked prettier, had weaker characters, even more convuluted story and streamlined progression grid system with incredibly linear story. I don't think it will have quite the renaissance as FFXII.
 

antitrop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,610
The most I ever liked it was right after I finished it, when the decent late-game battle system was still fresh in my mind. The longer it's been since I've played it, the more that I only remember the story and characters.
 

pants

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,196
This I don't get. What was so good about Gran Pulse? An empty world filled with nothing but monsters to kill.

Looked nice with the flying beasts and what not, accompanied with great music. Overall though, I think it was shit.


So aside from the visuals, a rugged mix of fantasy Australian Outback meets fantasy Jurassic Park, and aside from the music, including probably the best chocobo theme in the series, I just think most of the game builds to the area and it serves as a cool sandbox for what the game should have been more like.

I genuinely have no interest in ever playing XIII again, but think some of the stuff they started to do with Gran Pulse was where the mechanics and traditional rpg systems started to come together.
 

Chrono

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,146
I enjoyed XIII more than XV. There, I said it. I couldn't even finish FFXV, but I Platinum'd FFXIII.
 

Vicious17

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,293
Is this what's going on with XII right now?

No, 12 has a decent story and likeable (Go away Penelo and Vaan) characters. Its issue most people have is the battle system, specifically the ability to set up gambits and essentially let the game play itself. Which, personally, I thought was an awesome.
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,200
Is this what's going on with XII right now?
XII was always good! I don't know how many peoples opinions have radically changed over time though. I don't think most people will come to appreciate XIII over time but XIII-2 might be (and should be) better remembered.
 

Deleted member 41651

User-requested account closure
Banned
Apr 3, 2018
1,981
The one thing I liked about XIII was the character designs. That and the best robot owl since Bubo from Clash of the Titans.
 

RyougaSaotome

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,677
For me, divorced from the circumstances around it post-release (years and years of Lightning), I enjoyed my time with it at Japanese launch.

Looking back on it, it's still a very entertaining 7/10 for me. Nowhere close to my favorite, but I had fun playing through it.
 

Deleted member 18347

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,572
So aside from the visuals, a rugged mix of fantasy Australian Outback meets fantasy Jurassic Park, and aside from the music, including probably the best chocobo theme in the series, I just think most of the game builds to the area and it serves as a cool sandbox for what the game should have been more like.

I genuinely have no interest in ever playing XIII again, but think some of the stuff they started to do with Gran Pulse was where the mechanics and traditional rpg systems started to come together.
Well whatever it added I've missed. No towns, side quests, interesting occurrences... it was empty. But there are monsters to kill and chocobos to ride. Side quests? all monster contracts.

Looking cool isn't nearly enough to offset the lack of many other elements that would make it an interesting open world.
 

Toth

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,007
I don't think people will ever come around on XIII like they have on XII, but it did do a lot that was good.

-Amazing graphics.
-Creative environments.
-Some of Tetsuya Nomura's best character designs.
-Pretty fun battle system.
-An actually great character in Sazh.
-Fantastic soundtrack.
-Beautiful UI.

The lackluster writing, dissonance between codex entries and main plot, lack of towns and so on will always be a black mark on the game, but I think people may see it in a softer light when they have tempered expectations, because there's still quite a bit to like about it.

Yup. The change has been happening, slightly but its there.