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Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,308
220px-Death_of_the_Outsider_cover.jpg


[Now's a good time to mention that this game is currently 50% off on Steam, for only $20 CAD!] (Expired)

I started this game late last year, actually, but thanks to a massive backlog and having my play time devoured by time-sinks such as Monster Hunter World and later, Dark Souls Remastered (I play online a lot, make new characters, etc.), I've been neglecting my poor Dishonored. It didn't help that I needed to borrow my SO's PC to play it, as mine can't run modern games, so I just had fewer opportunities to continue playing it.

But enough excuses. I did finally resume playing it a few days ago and finally finished the last two missions I had left. After the constant positive buzz Prey has been getting (not saying it's undeserved) and how good Arkane's single player immersive sims are and all, I'm surprised I hardly ever hear anyone talking about DotO, so I'm making a thread for it. My first thread on Era, yay (?).

For those who don't know much about it, it's obviously similar to the first two Dishonored, but with two major differences:
  1. it removes the mana bar (instead, the mana bar replenishes gradually, so you can't abuse your powers, but you don't have to worry about micromanaging either), and
  2. it does away with the Chaos system entirely.
Now, I actually liked the Chaos system. I even found it pretty dumb how people basically complained about their in-game actions having in-game consequences, when that was the whole point of the system. The Chaos system wasn't perfect, but I strongly disagree with the common notion that it "punishes you for the fun playstyle". I played those games in mostly High Chaos, and never once felt "punished". There's a reason the different endings aren't "good" or "bad" but rather "optimistic" or "cynical", and both are interesting.

But, well, if you were one of those who liked the gameplay of Dishonored, but didn't like the Chaos system for whatever (misguided ;)) reason and gave up or passed on the games for that... do give Death of the Outsider a shot, because then you no longer have that excuse! :) There is even a mission where, if you want to do all the optional Contracts, you actually do need to kill every hostile/enemy in the level except one, soooo have at it and go full Rambo.

Other changes from the previous games include:

  • The Contracts, mentioned above. Optional side-objectives you pick up from the Black Market at the beginning of each level, they're typically assassination or theft jobs, but they sometimes have unique twists and may sometimes require some creativity to pull off. Very fun addition.
  • All Powers are unlocked at the start, and there's no "upgrades" through the runes. So you have fewer powers, but they're more focused and all accessible for the whole game. Since it's a shorter/spin-off kind of game, making it more streamlined makes sense.
  • New Powers include Semblance, which is stealing someone's face and impersonating them. It can result in some pretty amusing interactions, especially when doing that on unique/named NPCs. Another one is Foresight, which freezes time and lets you scout ahead (with limited range). It can be mixed with her traversal ability, Displace, which is similar to Emily/Corvo's but places a teleport marker and lets you warp to it, so you can sometimes mix both for some puzzle solving or unlocking secrets.
  • Original Game+ mode, which lets you replay the game with Emily and/or Corvo's powers! That's pretty neat, though I admit I haven't actually tried it...

The level design is still as strong as ever, and the game includes one of my all-time favourites, if not my very favourite, from the entire series: The Bank Job. Going into details as to what makes this level so fun would be entering spoilers territory, but man, it's a masterclass of level design, the kind Arkane is known for.

I really hope Arkane continues this series even if it hasn't been doing so well financially. Perhaps re-using the same gameplay mechanics but in a different setting or time period of that same world, or a brand- new setting? The ending(s) give some nice closure to the series, but it doesn't mean the Void went away forever, after all... :) I really hope Arkane continues making these kinds of games, whatever path they choose.


tl;dr It's really, really fucking good you guys. Play it. Also, Billie Lurk is one of the greatest protags ever, for real.
 
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demosthenes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,587
I'm going to bed so don't have time to write up a lot but saw this and had to post. The game is fantastic. What's happened to Arkane in the last 5 years is so sad to me.

A+ topic/post OP.
 

Crazymoogle

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,879
Asia
A really great finale to this chapter of Dishonored. Honestly, it's just a few levels short of being a full 60 dollar release anyway, and getting rid of the Mana bar was a huge breath of fresh air for the game mechanics. (Even the way they got rid of mana in the game fiction is good).

I think the writing is on the wall that Arkane needs to reinvent the franchise somehow for their next shot, but I'm really glad Arkane got to take this last ride first.
 

Zhukov

Banned
Dec 6, 2017
2,641
I enjoyed it, mostly because of the removal of the "chaos system" bollocks.

It really screwed up the first game. "Here's a ton of fun toys! Oh, but if you use them more than a tiny bit you get the bad ending. So here are some sleep darts. Because killing serial killers will make the whole world evil or something." The second game managed to mitigate the shittiness of the chaos system by giving non-lethal alternatives to almost everything. But that also highlighted how dumb and shallow it was. "Ohh, do I use the kill mine or the non-kill mine? What an intriguing moral quandary!" DotO did the smart thing and just threw the whole mess out the window to let the gameplay stand on its own.

I missed the talking heart though. It was one of my favourite things in the main games.
 
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Morrigan

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,308
Because killing serial killers will make the whole world evil or something.
Someone didn't read my OP :P
I disagree with this. Killing bad people in droves makes the world more Chaotic not more Evil. But hmph, anyway, like I said, DotO doesn't have the system so y'all can stop complaining now! :D
 

Zhukov

Banned
Dec 6, 2017
2,641
Someone didn't read my OP :P
I disagree with this. Killing bad people in droves makes the world more Chaotic not more Evil. But hmph, anyway, like I said, DotO doesn't have the system so y'all can stop complaining now! :D
Oh, I read it. I just vehemently disagreed with it.

How would that make the world more chaotic?

Often I'd point the heart at someone and it would be like, "Ohh, yeah, she poisons someone every week." Or, "Yep, he's totally planing like ten murders right now." But if those people get eaten by rats or fall in a canal the world gets more chaotic? That's somehow going to be difference between Emily being a tyrant or not? That's not consequence for actions, that's just arbitrary game-y bullshit.

The series does get it right when it wants to. Emily dying in the first game leading to a different ending? Makes sense. The time-travel level in the second game having specific consequences for specific actions? Great. Also makes sense. But completely unrelated things going to shit because one too many people died during events where people are dying all over the place anyway? Nah. Not so much.
 
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Morrigan

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,308
Oh, I read it. I just vehemently disagreed with it.

How would that make the world more chaotic?

Often I'd point the heart at someone and it would be like, "Ohh, yeah, she poisons someone every week." Or, "Yep, he's totally planing like ten murders right now." But if those people get eaten by rats or fall in a canal the world gets more chaotic? That's somehow going to be difference between Emily being a tyrant or not? That's not consequence for actions, that's just arbitrary game-y bullshit.

The series does get it right when it wants to. Emily dying in the first game leading to a different ending? Makes sense. The time-travel level in the second game having specific consequences for specific actions? Great. Also makes sense. But completely unrelated things going to shit because one too many people died during events where people are dying all over the place anyway? Nah. Not so much.
Like I said, it's not perfect. But, if you can't see why slaughtering every single guard in a mansion/bank/building/whatever wouldn't be massively disruptive for a civilized society, I don't know what to tell you. (Plus of course how it helps the spread of plague rats and/or bloodflies that get attracted to all the corpses one might leave behind) And keep in mind you need to kill a lot of people to get the High Chaos consequences, too.

Obviously sometimes it's gonna be a bit game-y, because, well, it's a game. But the idea that leaving behind trails of bodies across the city/cities would cause chaos, bleakness and cynicism in the world and its characters, is a sound one.
 

Zhukov

Banned
Dec 6, 2017
2,641
Like I said, it's not perfect. But, if you can't see why slaughtering every single guard in a mansion/bank/building/whatever wouldn't be massively disruptive for a civilized society, I don't know what to tell you.
It doesn't work like that.

For one, you don't have to kill every single guard. Not even close.

For two, a mansion full of guards and nobles is counted towards the same total as a few gang members and plague victims. It's just an arbitrary numerical limit. The game doesn't care who dies or how. It's just X-1 deaths=good, X+1 deaths=bad.

(Plus of course how it helps the spread of plague rats and/or bloodflies that get attracted to all the corpses one might leave behind) And keep in mind you need to kill a lot of people to get the High Chaos consequences, too.

Obviously sometimes it's gonna be a bit game-y, because, well, it's a game. But the idea that leaving behind trails of bodies across the city/cities would cause chaos, bleakness and cynicism in the world and its characters, is a sound one.
The cities in question are already littered with corpses. They're in the middle of plagues and revolutions.

"I was totally fine with the literal piles of plague bodies and murder victims, but then I heard about a handful of city watchmen getting eaten by rats and that was just too much. Life is meaningless! I'm going to be evil now!"

Plus, like I said, often the game is straight up telling me that I'd be saving more lives by killing particular people since the world is apparently somehow populated by like 40% serial killers.
 
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Morrigan

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,308
Look, I think you're misrepresenting the chaos system by deliberately nitpicking the extremes, but I don't want this thread to be about Dishonored 1 and 2, so let's agree to disagree and instead talk about DotO, okay?
 

zombipuppy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
221
I recently played through Arkane's Prey, Dishonored and Dishonored 2, including DotO. Freaking amazing immersive sims. DotO has those poignant differences from D2 that OP mentioned and they are utter gamechangers.

Time to try a deep dive into Arx Fatalis!
 

matrix-cat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,284
Changing the Mana system to three recharging bars was a huge upgrade for me. In Dishonored 1 and 2 I had a terrible habit of simply waiting for my Mana to recharge when I Blinked or used any of the cheaper powers, because I'm always a resource hoarder in games and I hate the idea of wasting a Mana potion when I could simply wait a couple of seconds. It really slowed down my playstyle, so DOTO's change was perfect.

Loved the Contracts, too. I adored DOTO, to be honest; my only real complaint is that the final level drops the wonderful dense Dishonored level design in favour of an almost entirely linear gauntlet with some really irritating enemies. The ol' Quick Save/Quick Load keys got a hell of a workout, to say the least.
 
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Morrigan

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,308
Wait, what happened to Arkane in the last 5 years?
Guessing he's referring to their presumed financial difficulties? Arkane's games have been crititcally acclaimed but have not been great sellers, unfortunately. Though I don't know if that has ever just been speculation or fact, if they've broken even regarding their budgets or whatnot.
 

Zhukov

Banned
Dec 6, 2017
2,641
Guessing he's referring to their presumed financial difficulties? Arkane's games have been crititcally acclaimed but have not been great sellers, unfortunately. Though I don't know if that has ever just been speculation or fact, if they've broken even regarding their budgets or whatnot.
Oh, that's a shame. If it's true.

Clearly the first Dishonored did well enough for Bethesda to greenlight a sequel. Although I remember hearing somewhere that the sequel did worse.

I was massively unimpressed by Prey, but I thought it was at least a valiant attempt.
 

newgamewhodis

Member
Oct 28, 2017
820
Brooklyn
How did the game handle representation/plot? I'm curious to dive in, but story has been the biggest let down for me in Dishonored 1 and 2. For a world so full of intrigue and interesting lore, the relatively straight revenge tales in the first two dampened otherwise wonderful 0451 games.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,800
I never bothered with Dishonored 2 and DotO because of the bad performance of the game. Has that been fixed on PC? Can I get consistent 60 fps at reasonable settings?
 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,217
I never bothered with Dishonored 2 and DotO because of the bad performance of the game. Has that been fixed on PC? Can I get consistent 60 fps at reasonable settings?

Runs fine on my end. If you're not trying to play it on a potato, it should run well for you too. Would recommend running it with triple buffered vsync to smooth over possible dips. It's definitely not a game like Fortnite or Overwatch that can run on integrated graphics and a mobile CPU.
 

Staf

Member
Nov 7, 2017
3,751
Gothenburg, Sweden
I've been thinking of getting this. I liked everything about Dishonored 2 except the chaos system. I fucking hate the chaos system. It soured me on the whole game. Didn't know this did away with it. Will buy it now for sure on PS4.
 

BDubsLegend

Banned
Jan 24, 2018
1,027
The Dishonerd 2 series was excellent. Great Game play tons of options. Made you feel like a magic stealth ninja. How you played effected Emily's dialogue. Great female character that was not defined by her gender but by her actions. This board will break their necks pointing out how bad a design is,or how sexualized someone is, but they rarely celebrate when things are done well. This game is an example on top of being a great game.

Then Arkane does it again with Billie Lurk, the most rare unicorn of all video game protagonists, a black woman. DotO tones down some of the OPness of Emily which allows for more vantage point planning. (Domino could completely wreck a room and it was obvious they had to design around it.) Then they got Rosario Dawson to voice her. Man I'm really reminiscing over these two games.

When people crow about single player games I always point to This game series and Prey. Both excellent games that nobody bought. But I guess they aren't third person action games with gritty story lines or exclusives so people didn't pay attention.
 

Squall5042

Member
Oct 25, 2017
841
I literally just beat this about 10 minutes ago. Was really enjoyable even if it took a bit for me to get used to it.

And by it I mean murdering everyone since the chaos system was removed.
 

FallenGrace

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,035
Great write up Morrigan ! I love, love Dishonored and Death of the Outsider was a fantastic send off if we never get anymore. Nevermind 50% off this was a steal at launch for the content to price ratio! People if you aren't sure, buy it. If you haven't played the series buy them all! They are amazing sims.

And yeah Billy Lurk is definitely cool but Emily is my favorite Dishonoured character. I love the whole art style to this series.
 

Zelda

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,079
Dishonored 2 was so poorly optimized for PC, ran like crap on my 1070 and i7 6700k. Idk if it ever got fixed, but it's one of the reasons I avoided Death of the Outsider.
 

Kolx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,505
Completely agree. It's really sad how the series fell after 1 to 2 and now this commercially (although it's at least expected for DotO since it's a smaller game). Removing the mana finally allowed me to use my power consistently instead of worrying about saving them for later. My only big complain is that the powers in this game feel extremely limited in comparison to 2. I didn't expect something as vast as 2 but it was still smaller than I expected it to be.

Nevertheless, a fantastic game and I hope it doesn't ruin our chances of getting a new entry in the franchise soon with some changes built on the solid foundation they have.
Especially the story. With the outsider death they can finally move on with a new story with completely new characters this time
 

Dreenk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
489
I plan on grabbing this before the summer sale ends after waiting so long, on the strength of a few things.

Dishonored 1 was perfect on all fronts, with its dlc serving only to bolster its stature, making it one of my favorite game experiences period. I enjoyed Dishonored 2 a lot, but had some real issues with it (aside from the seemingly ubiquitous PC performance issues) that not only seemed anecdotally rare, but may have simply stemmed from my expectations going one way, while my playthrough as Emily focusing on passive stealth went another entirely. I think I need to replay it as Corvo with his physics and powers to know for sure. Lastly, I picked Prey back up recently after getting about halfway through it - now close to the end - and it's become my favorite Arkane game to date, for many reasons beyond the scope of the thread, and the chatter around Mooncrash has me very interested in that as well.

Now I'm looking back on Dishonored and Arkane's output as a whole and they, in my eyes, have not only done no wrong, but have been consistently creating at a level that no other developer has been for a pretty long time now. I only wish their style and sensibility proved to be more popularly successful. All that to say that I've been staring at DotO for a while, waiting for the Dishonored bug to bite once again, and I think it may finally have. I'd also basically ignored anything about DotO other than the obvious aspects, and so didn't even know about the Mana and Chaos changes - which both sound like welcome differences to me.

I really just want Arkane to keep making cool shit that they enjoy making, hopefully finding success along the way.
 

psychedelic

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,317
But I guess they aren't third person action games with gritty story lines or exclusives so people didn't pay attention.

I mean, Lost Legacy had great leading women characters too.

Anyway, I really enjoyed my time with Dishonored 2, it's one of the most satisfying games that I've ever played. Prey was also phenomenal (probably enjoyed it more than Dishonored), and I'm looking forward to playing DotO at some point.
 
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Morrigan

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,308
Ok you convinced me to try it.
I've been thinking of getting this. I liked everything about Dishonored 2 except the chaos system. I fucking hate the chaos system. It soured me on the whole game. Didn't know this did away with it. Will buy it now for sure on PS4.
Cheers, guys! :)

I never bothered with Dishonored 2 and DotO because of the bad performance of the game. Has that been fixed on PC? Can I get consistent 60 fps at reasonable settings?
Dishonored 2 was so poorly optimized for PC, ran like crap on my 1070 and i7 6700k. Idk if it ever got fixed, but it's one of the reasons I avoided Death of the Outsider.
My SO's PC is pretty strong, but ran both games just fine. I think it's similar to yours (Zelda). IIRC, the performance problems that plagued a lot of people in D2 were not as commonly present in DotO.
 

Fairy Godmother

Backward compatible
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
3,289
You can disguise as the Opera singer and sing poorly into the mic to attempt opening the safe.
That was one of the greatest moments in the game for me.
 

Ganransu

Member
Nov 21, 2017
1,270
Not forgotten, for me at least.

I just haven't the time to finish Dishonoured 2 even, and I believe this one comes after 2...
 

Jerykk

Banned
Dec 26, 2017
1,184
Death of the Outsider was great, though I'm a bit concerned that it was basically created to wrap up the series. The scope and storyline seem like they were originally intended for Dishonored 3 but when Dishonored 2 sold below expectations, Bethesda turned D3 into an expansion pack. Hopefully I'm wrong and they're just finished with this particular story arc but I have a feeling we're never going to see another Dishonored game.
 

Mr.Deadshot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,285
I still have to play Dishonored 2.
I might get the addon if I like it. I really liked the first game but after finishing it it felt like "enough of this" for me. So it might be the same with Dishonored 2.
 

Deleted member 2595

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,475
Not as good as Dishonored 1 and 2 IMO, mainly due to the stranger powers, but it's still fantastic, yes.

I still have to play Dishonored 2.
I might get the addon if I like it. I really liked the first game but after finishing it it felt like "enough of this" for me. So it might be the same with Dishonored 2.
Dishonored 2 is a masterpiece. I liked the original but 2 is just next level. Absolute 10/10, my GotY 2016.

The only game since 2013 (TLoU) I actively replayed the minute I finished it.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
17,800
daxy burgerdog Morrigan Thank you for the information. It's not that I can't handle 30 fps, I would just rather not reward a company that didn't show the necessary care and attention to the PC version. Can I go straight from Dishonored 1 to Death of the Outsider or is Dishonored 2 essential to understand the story?
 

R.T Straker

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,715
It's okay but it's no Knife of Dunwall/Brigmore Witches.

It does mostly a good job outside the rehased level and the final 2 ones. It's the most linear Dishonored game which I'm not a fan
 

Alex840

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,114
I keep forgetting that I bought this for PS4 on sale a few months back. Might play it this week.
 

Atolm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,826
I bought it last year. I plan to baptize my 1180/Ti with it as Dishonored 2 performed badly.
 

Moff

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,780
Dishonored is one of the best franchises of the last 2 generations. Top tier level design and gameplay.
Death of the outsider is great, I actually think Billie has the best set of abilities of the Dishonored 2 protagonists.

I am really sad that it's probably the last of Dishonored we'll see. Shame these games sell so poorly, they are brilliant.
 

demosthenes

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,587
Not as good as Dishonored 1 and 2 IMO, mainly due to the stranger powers, but it's still fantastic, yes.


Dishonored 2 is a masterpiece. I liked the original but 2 is just next level. Absolute 10/10, my GotY 2016.

The only game since 2013 (TLoU) I actively replayed the minute I finished it.

Damn straight. Played it through 5 times. Can't remember the last time indie that.