Every time I see people praising XIII I get so happy. Like... I'm not alone after all???
Yeah I fucking love XIII, flaws and all.
Yeah I fucking love XIII, flaws and all.
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Will FFXIII ever be appreciated?
- Thread starter Bahamut
- Start date
I don't know, and it's probably my own thinking influencing it, but the things FFXIII got right are immutable and not subject to change, and the things it got wrong are forever subjective. It was a beautiful looking game with great musical moments (some of which didn't match the action on screen which I hate that people don't call attention to in their complaints!) but the characters are garbage, the writing is garbage, the lore is garbage, the presentation of the story/lore is garbage (everything is in text boxes of interest, and if you don't read them the story is barely there), and the gameplay is nothing anyone really ever strongly condemns or praises. Sure, there will be loons that say the characters/story/lore are great, but they've existed since the release of the game. What's going to change in years? Nothing. It's just going to be attrition by those that moved on to other FF games or RPGs or Japan-centric games in general versus those still obsessed by the bad characters, story, and writing, and honestly, they'll probably win because lives lost have no worth when they were alive.
Or, FFXV will be remembered poorly that people have to praise the preceding game (never played it, so can't say how its quality is).
Or, FFXV will be remembered poorly that people have to praise the preceding game (never played it, so can't say how its quality is).
I'd say I enjoed XIII more than XV or XII. That said none of them are fantastic.
Both XV and XII had the potential to be way better than XIII. The story premise for both were fantastic but the pacing drops off a fucking cliff in both. The worlds was much better in terms of exploration too. Unfortunately i dont like the combat in either and the side content that fills these open worlds isnt that great. :/
Compare that to XIII where the story and exploration isnt great but the combat was super fun and at the end of the day, for all three most of your time will be spent in combat.
Both XV and XII had the potential to be way better than XIII. The story premise for both were fantastic but the pacing drops off a fucking cliff in both. The worlds was much better in terms of exploration too. Unfortunately i dont like the combat in either and the side content that fills these open worlds isnt that great. :/
Compare that to XIII where the story and exploration isnt great but the combat was super fun and at the end of the day, for all three most of your time will be spent in combat.
I also much preferred XIII to XIII-2. 2 had it's own set of annoying issues.
Your post perfectly illustrates my point. Viii and X are both Nomura games, the designs are bad but still better than XIII.
IX has a different designer, personally I think they are great.
Look at IX's designs, notice the different silhouettes, how the defining features in each character (a tail, a big ribbon, a huge pointed hat, the color contrasts) easily translate into low poly models. They pay homage to the classic jobs while retaining their own identity. To me that must've been very hard to pull off. I have a soft spot for Garnet, she's probably the series' main heroine that shows the less skin. Her design also changes midgame to reflect her emotional growth.
Now look at VIII's designs, they're all very similar in shapes, thus don't show much personality or depth. Ultimately, they're boring, the way I see them they're just edgy teens with a bad sense of fashion.
It was dire.
People going on about how the world opened up at like 30 hours in. I was at the section where you faced Shiva i think and it was just hellish corridors and bland landscapes.
Had it been open world sooner i may habe stuck but i really felt like an incredibly long and boring tutorial.
The game was terrible, the setting was really interesting, the story was nonsense, the music was crap, the battle system was oversimplified (but then i never got far into it).
Ff XIII-2 was a lot better gameplay wise. Seemed more open
People going on about how the world opened up at like 30 hours in. I was at the section where you faced Shiva i think and it was just hellish corridors and bland landscapes.
Had it been open world sooner i may habe stuck but i really felt like an incredibly long and boring tutorial.
The game was terrible, the setting was really interesting, the story was nonsense, the music was crap, the battle system was oversimplified (but then i never got far into it).
Ff XIII-2 was a lot better gameplay wise. Seemed more open
Design wise he's better than the entire cast of FFX.I'll just leave this here...
I'm currently playing World of Final Fantasy and it's been a love-hate relationship so far between the protagonists which feel like Kingdom Hearts rejects, the cute art, the boring story, the interesting battle system... it's a rather uneven experience, but even at its worst moments, one thing comes to my mind: that is not as bad as FFXIII.
I'm serious. I don't think FFXIII will ever be appreciated like certain black sheep games like Chrono Cross or Star Ocean 3. It's soulless, without a vision, and honestly just an excuse for a certain director to be constantly patting his own back on how clever he thought he was being. And I'm not even touching the fact the protagonist of that trilogy is his self insert.
I'm serious. I don't think FFXIII will ever be appreciated like certain black sheep games like Chrono Cross or Star Ocean 3. It's soulless, without a vision, and honestly just an excuse for a certain director to be constantly patting his own back on how clever he thought he was being. And I'm not even touching the fact the protagonist of that trilogy is his self insert.
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He did the main characters design on XIII and from a quick Google search it seems I'm right?
I had a hard time play through this the first time through, much better the second where I stopped trying to play it like a past Final Fantasy game and play it for what it was.
First time round, I tried to find grinding points. Second time round, I just pressed on to Gran Pulse, which was much better.
The game really really suffers with a bad opening act. Not letting you perform any action bar Attack until you hit the crystal lake is really bad. It is throttling the game to suit the story. After that, much better.
I bought it again on PC and played it, I'd do the same if it came to Switch. Although I'd probably head to the latter sequels now.
First time round, I tried to find grinding points. Second time round, I just pressed on to Gran Pulse, which was much better.
The game really really suffers with a bad opening act. Not letting you perform any action bar Attack until you hit the crystal lake is really bad. It is throttling the game to suit the story. After that, much better.
I bought it again on PC and played it, I'd do the same if it came to Switch. Although I'd probably head to the latter sequels now.
Also liked it more than XII. Likable cast, great atmosphere, difficult and rewarding battle system, awesome music, swift UI.
Shame about the sequels, though. Best to pretend it ended with the first.
Shame about the sequels, though. Best to pretend it ended with the first.
Nope. Snow and a few others were done by a different team member.
Edit: "Nao Ikeda designed Snow, Jihl Nabaat and Gadot, Lebreau, and Maqui."
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Nao_Ikeda
Nap Ikeda's done several character designs over the years.
I feel like Final Fantasy X executed its linearity better from a gameplay perspective considering that it had mini-games, puzzle-solving segments, chests to find, side quests, etc. along the way. The gameplay was still decently varied even if the level design narrowed down quite a lot, which is an approach I'm generally happy with. I'm one of those people who would defend XIII's linearity from a story perspective, but I do think it's kind of a shame that the battle system is at least 90% of the depth the gameplay has to offer up until Gran Pulse (and even that's pretty arguable, considering that it's mostly hunting side quests--love the level design tho'). More moments like the mech section in chapter 4(?) would have gone a long way.
Also, regarding Final Fantasy XII: its battle system has never been my cup of tea, so I really haven't played more than, say, five hours of it.
I know Nao Ikeda was involved in those but I've always thought Nomura had more input in them.
Both have great soundtracks, but I enjoy the story and characters in XIII-2 more.
Just gonna throw this out there that I actually like Snow's design. And most of the FFXIII designs for that matter. Then again, I rarely have a problem with Nomura's character designs outside of a handful in FFX.I'll just leave this here...
I've never seen a game that intentionally makes its combat system unfun for an entire fifteen fucking hours just because it's so scared of the players not being able to get it.
Even Pokemon treats its players with more respect.
Even Pokemon treats its players with more respect.
Not by me. The almost fully automated combat is so shallow, boring and repetitive that I hope they don't ever use it again. The linear level design and even more linear progression (press button to unlock the next node in the spiral) make the game even worse.
Are we talking about the same game? :o
Are we talking about the same game? :o
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I liked the graphics and the music. Blinded By Light was actually my favorite battle theme before FF15's Cleigne Battle topped it.
That's about it for positives though. I couldn't get into the story and characters whatsoever and the gameplay was boring so there wasn't really any drive beyond "it gets better (apparently)" that kept me going.
Every once in a while I pick it up again to see if my impression has changed but I just can't get into it. It's not something for me, but I respect that others like it.
That's about it for positives though. I couldn't get into the story and characters whatsoever and the gameplay was boring so there wasn't really any drive beyond "it gets better (apparently)" that kept me going.
Every once in a while I pick it up again to see if my impression has changed but I just can't get into it. It's not something for me, but I respect that others like it.
It's a game with amazing production values. That said, I didn't enjoy it. I actually love "corridor" games once in a while so this was right up my alley in theory, but I just didn't like the writing and the characters so it fell flat for me. Like, Final Fantasy X is arguably almost as linear but I like it a lot more because I enjoyed the plot/characters a hell lot more.
I don't consider the designs of VIII's cast to be a problem, particularly in a game going for something more "realistic" within a fantasy context (which I maintain that Nomura managed infinitely better with VIII than with XV, VIII handling that direction better in all aspects including its world compared to the likes of that game). Lazy writing and a lack of development outside of Squall and Rinoa were the primary issues. And Squall aside, none of the main party qualified as edgy.
Kimahri was the only character among X's main characters whose design I disliked (him being useless in a fight also bothered me, but that's beside the point). I didn't care much for either Hope or his design, yet I can say that the character designs in XIII weren't a factor in why I disliked that game.
XIII is visually stunning, even more than XV imo, the colours and art is soo good with great atmosphere, and the battle system is very fun especially against bosses, the story, characters were mediocre and the linearity was bad.
The ost was great but nothing compared to older titles, I liked the game, but hated XIII-2 alot and LR was great.
The ost was great but nothing compared to older titles, I liked the game, but hated XIII-2 alot and LR was great.
FFXIII got a lot right. The visuals, battle system and OST were all very solid.
It also got a lot of things horribly wrong like story, dialogue, characters, world map, towns, linearity etc.
I'd say it's probably the best of the worst i.e. Not as horrible as Mystic Quest, FF1, FFII, FFIII or FFIV but nowhere near the upper echelon. (V,VI,VII,IX,XII)
It also got a lot of things horribly wrong like story, dialogue, characters, world map, towns, linearity etc.
I'd say it's probably the best of the worst i.e. Not as horrible as Mystic Quest, FF1, FFII, FFIII or FFIV but nowhere near the upper echelon. (V,VI,VII,IX,XII)
X is such a goofy game, I think the comically bad designs add to its charm! That's why I appreciate them to a certain extent.
In XIII, they're not funny. Everyone looks extremely dumb but the whole setup of the game makes it hard to enjoy.
I don't understand why people keep comparing the reactions to XII with XIII. It's been 8 years since XIII came out and it's as hated as day 1, how much more time has to pass? 4 years after its release XII was used as an example for how people will appreciate XIII later, but they never did. XIII trilogy will always be seen as the worst 3D FF games (so far), the only good thing is the music.
Neither are good FF games but at least XII is a good rpg. XII wasn't bad, it was just so disappointing coming from previous FF games.
Neither are good FF games but at least XII is a good rpg. XII wasn't bad, it was just so disappointing coming from previous FF games.
I was sort of a defender of FFXIII early on, but when I tried to replay it I could barely get to the half way point. I then attempted to play through it again years later, and again, I could not do it. Shit's just boring. Didn't really care much for the story, I also didn't think it made much sense. I didn't really like any of the characters, except maybe Fang and Hope, who gets way to much shit.
Gameplay wise, they held your hand all the way to Pulse, and if that wasn't bad enough you basically never have a full part til Pulse, either. Then there's all the linear areas, the lack of any towns, or really any down time for characters to interact (then again they're barely ever together). Game sucks ass, and it baffles me that they gave it two fucking sequels.
Gameplay wise, they held your hand all the way to Pulse, and if that wasn't bad enough you basically never have a full part til Pulse, either. Then there's all the linear areas, the lack of any towns, or really any down time for characters to interact (then again they're barely ever together). Game sucks ass, and it baffles me that they gave it two fucking sequels.
No, because it's a bad game while FF12 was an unorthodox yet amazing game. There is nothing redeeming about FF13.
But... that's a good design. In fact, I think everyone's is... except for the Space Pope's.I'll just leave this here...
XII had a rich world, a decent narrative and an interesting combat system. XIII had an okay combat system, terrible premise and a linear by-the-rails world, empty of any personality. It is, in my eyes, a fundamentally flawed game -- a bad game.
I think people overreacted about the quality of XIII when it came out. The game was pretty good albeit with issues.
Also what always confused me (although I'm not a big FF fan and probably can't dissect and analyze the different games the way fans do) is the fact that structure wise XII looks pretty similar to XIII to me. So I don't understand why people love one but totally hate the other.
Also what always confused me (although I'm not a big FF fan and probably can't dissect and analyze the different games the way fans do) is the fact that structure wise XII looks pretty similar to XIII to me. So I don't understand why people love one but totally hate the other.
After recent playthroughs of both, I have flipped. I like 13 better. I always liked 13, and 12 but the combat system in 13 is much smoother. I also don't like the pseudo MMO feel 12 has. Its still good, it just has slipped a few pegs.
I've replayed it twice, and really like it for what it is. It's really well designed, visually, aurally, and in terms of basic game design - yes, the battle system is a bit slow to open up, but this is common in FF and just highlighted here because the battle system is kind of all there is.
The big problem is just lack of variety. I've been replaying VII, and there's always an available and streamlined diversion (timed escape, cross dressing adventure game style, bike riding, hunting for Materia, getting enemy skills, a strategy side quest, multiple towns with their own culture and secrets, chocobo catching, amusement park, and that's just in the first few hours). This gives the world density and texture, and provides a memorable setting for the big story events.
Final Fantasy used to be about this kind of maximum experience, and though that was challenged as early as X, it was really XIII where a single, streamlined design sensibility was brought to the whole game. It's good I think, but felt claustrophobic in relation to series history. So yes, the game could have been better appreciated with a different title.
The big problem is just lack of variety. I've been replaying VII, and there's always an available and streamlined diversion (timed escape, cross dressing adventure game style, bike riding, hunting for Materia, getting enemy skills, a strategy side quest, multiple towns with their own culture and secrets, chocobo catching, amusement park, and that's just in the first few hours). This gives the world density and texture, and provides a memorable setting for the big story events.
Final Fantasy used to be about this kind of maximum experience, and though that was challenged as early as X, it was really XIII where a single, streamlined design sensibility was brought to the whole game. It's good I think, but felt claustrophobic in relation to series history. So yes, the game could have been better appreciated with a different title.
It already happened, sadly. Give it enough time and people forget about why things are bad and start praising them as "lost gems", it happens with movies, music, even people, of course it happens with games too.
FFXIII was a bad game at launch day and is still a bad game today.
More people got to play XIII than XII since it went multiplat. So there were more people to see how crappy it was. I don't recall all this love for XII, but its possible that the people who love it love XIII as well
FFXIII was a bad game at launch day and is still a bad game today.
More people got to play XIII than XII since it went multiplat. So there were more people to see how crappy it was. I don't recall all this love for XII, but its possible that the people who love it love XIII as well
I tend to agree, but its the only positive factor of the game. It get lost within average to poor everything else... Even the fancy graphics are wasted in underused, missmanaged locations that feel lifeless, empty and never " real " as nobody explains what it is, or why should I be interested in this place
I actually have always really liked XIII since it came out. It has one of the best soundtracks in the series, and the art style is both consistent and unique. By comparison FFXIIs soundtrack is quite bland with few stand out tracks. The art style and world design is really odd and clashes. One second you're fighting with swords and the next there are star wars looking space ships flying around shooting lasers.
It also did way better by its female characters. The designs for Lightning, Fang and Vanille fit their characters and are attractive and stylish without being ridiculously objectifying. I cant say the same for Fran and Ashe.
The writing was also much better in this regard. Lightning is the type of woman that's not allowed to be the protagonist in a lot of games. She's professional, cabaple and powerful. They also make her caharacter revolve around her relationship with her sister, which again is a rarity in games. And say what you want about the status of its canon, the Fang x Vanille relationship gave us our first queer girl relationship in a FF game, even if it was mostly in undertones.
Meanwhile in FFXII Fran is little more than a sexy Chewbacca. She has little personality aside from letting her ass be forefront in a lot of cutscenes. Penelo is little better, she's the childhood friend of the protagonist who gets to be a damsel in distress for a story arc then is casually forgotten about the remainder of the game. None of this compares to how unfairly the game treats Ashe though. The opening sequence sets up this unique revenge arc for her, only to have it ripped away to play as one of the most disliked young male protags in a mainline FF game. The fact that the story is experienced through Vaan's eyes and not Ashe's was one of the worst writing choices an FF game has ever made IMO. Shes the Cloud of the story, yet somehow were saddled with experiencing the plot with Yuffie as our protagonist.
To this day FFXII is the only mainline (including sequels) that I've never fully finished. I even managed to get through FFX-2 once. Meanwhile I've finished FFXIII about four times, and got all the trophies on one of those runs
It also did way better by its female characters. The designs for Lightning, Fang and Vanille fit their characters and are attractive and stylish without being ridiculously objectifying. I cant say the same for Fran and Ashe.
The writing was also much better in this regard. Lightning is the type of woman that's not allowed to be the protagonist in a lot of games. She's professional, cabaple and powerful. They also make her caharacter revolve around her relationship with her sister, which again is a rarity in games. And say what you want about the status of its canon, the Fang x Vanille relationship gave us our first queer girl relationship in a FF game, even if it was mostly in undertones.
Meanwhile in FFXII Fran is little more than a sexy Chewbacca. She has little personality aside from letting her ass be forefront in a lot of cutscenes. Penelo is little better, she's the childhood friend of the protagonist who gets to be a damsel in distress for a story arc then is casually forgotten about the remainder of the game. None of this compares to how unfairly the game treats Ashe though. The opening sequence sets up this unique revenge arc for her, only to have it ripped away to play as one of the most disliked young male protags in a mainline FF game. The fact that the story is experienced through Vaan's eyes and not Ashe's was one of the worst writing choices an FF game has ever made IMO. Shes the Cloud of the story, yet somehow were saddled with experiencing the plot with Yuffie as our protagonist.
Same
To this day FFXII is the only mainline (including sequels) that I've never fully finished. I even managed to get through FFX-2 once. Meanwhile I've finished FFXIII about four times, and got all the trophies on one of those runs
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Wasn't it release like 8 or 9 years ago? It should have happened by now if it was worth appreciating.