I went to a conservative Christian church yesterday

A weekend ago I had gone with my mom, and they were talking about how Hilary would have been the worse choice, how she was going to bring about persecution to the Christian church. Also how they would force them to have diverse staff, like a lesbian cleric or something.

I too couldn't handle it, and decided to rush out without making a scene. Of course my mom was embarrassed and followed me shortly after. It's tough that I want to be there with my parents, but also can't bring myself to just sit there while they talk about being gay is sinful, or the Islam is a worse religion.

Also talking about Hilary that way sounds like political speech, so I dunno, if I didn't care that my mom likes going to church I think I'd report them for that.

bangai-o said:

On topic:

I remember an old neogaf thread that posted an article of how young Muslims in Germany were having a hard time finding a mosque because the majority if them are so conservative. If I recall the full article correctly, it is apparently hard to find church/mosque leaders with actual educational credentials. (I tried to find the thread but I only found one about Minnesota, which was different). I presume the same occurs with Christian churches. The more highly educated pastors are probably not going to be found within conservative communities.

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The more organized churches, like the Catholic Church and the Episcopalian Church require their pastors to go to divinity school and those divinity schools almost universally require that you've at least got a 2yr degree, if not a Master's

I go occasionally to the mosque, mainly to the biggest religious holidays.
If the preacher is more conservative he talks about how the Islam is living hard times all over the world (which is kindly true), but in more aggressive way so that you should not forget who is causing this and how everyone is condemning the Islam and nobody loves muslims but other muslims. After being very passive aggressive, they usually switch to how the preacher's generation were hard working in the household and were literally piggybacking their sick elders miles and miles from from one village to another to see a doctor, while the new generation can't find time for their elders despite using cars to see the doctor. Also, how we should concentrate our lives to prayers and how we should care about our children that they should see islamic educations, because we are losing the ideals of what family means.

If the Imam is one of the progressive ones he talks to the children how the school benefits the children and you have to integrate yourself and the children to society while being a good muslim and they also talk how the religion is living hard times. Talking with other friends, I pretty much learned that every preacher of every major religion is stating the fact that their religion is living hard times.

You essentially witnessed a cult meeting.

Saya said:

Did the pastor do this?

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This hilarious. Maybe we need to get an MMA fighter to test these techniques, like that guy who challenged that bogus martial arts master in Japan.

My sense is that it's gotten worse; I grew up in a Southern Baptist church in the deep south, but 99% of the teachings were about bettering yourself, treating others well, etc etc. I even ended up being involved in the Baptist group at university but left it quickly after the new Campus Minister seemed to be more concerned about what people were watching in the common room than he was about reaching out to other people.

I

I was raised Lutheran and have been going to church for more or less my whole life, though not in the last couple of years. I have never, ever, experienced a sermon where the pastor brought up anything even vaguely political. Not even once. Based on my experience most of them keep politics out of religion.

Sadly it doesn't surprise me at all that some of them gleefully take advantage of their position to push their own personal political agenda.

Religious zealotry is bad news.

Our priest talked about mortality, agape and nothing at all about the country. We did sing O Canada at the end of the Mass (updated version).

Planx said:

The more organized churches, like the Catholic Church and the Episcopalian Church require their pastors to go to divinity school and those divinity schools almost universally require that you've at least got a 2yr degree, if not a Master's

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Most Catholic priests have a bachelor's, and it's not uncommon for them to have a master's in theology or philosophy.

I'm not sure if a bachelor's is necessary, but I think it might be now.

I got dragged to a church in El Salvador as a kid by a friend's parents (without telling my parents). It was fucking terrifying to such a degree that it's one of the only memories I have from when I was 6. They had a life sized and ultra realistic statue of Jesus covered in blood and crucified up on the wall above the pastor and i just gawked at it in horror for the entire service. My very Jewish mother was not happy when she found out. That Latin American brand of Christianity can be fucking intense.

The Albatross said:

Wild... Evangelical churches man, they're something else.



Evangelical Christians aren't the reason things are going to shit, but most of them aren't helping. Can't blame the world's troubles on one religious denomination, but most southern evangelical conservative churches aren't helping things, either.

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Getting real tired of this "it's EVANGELICAL Christians, not real Christians" crap. What the OP described is your everyday common CHRISTIAN church that you will find in every city. And if you think it's secluded to only southern churches you got another thing coming.

OP, this is pretty much most churches, and religious people. God don't want this bullshit but his followers sure seem to.

Ponn said:

Getting real tired of this "it's EVANGELICAL Christians, not real Christians" crap. What the OP described is your everyday common CHRISTIAN church that you will find in every city. And if you think it's secluded to only southern churches you got another thing coming.

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Careful you might get banned or warned for labeling conservatives and Christians like that.

Loxley said:

I was raised Lutheran and have been going to church for more or less my whole life, though not in the last couple of years. I have never, ever, experienced a sermon where the pastor brought up anything even vaguely political. Not even once. Based on my experience most of them keep politics out of religion.

Sadly it doesn't surprise me at all that some of them gleefully take advantage of their position to push their own personal political agenda.

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As someone who has been to many different churches throughout my life as part of my religious education (UU), I've always really enjoyed Lutheran services and have become very good friends with a few ministers in town. The congregations tend to be very friendly and open to new people.

Could've been worse.

At least they didn't offer you miracle spring water.

It honestly greatly upsets me that religion is still a thing. It is a cancer to society

Reading how the service of a Christian Church in conservative America is so weird to me. Christian rock during the Catholic equivalence of mass? This is so weird.

theofficefan99 said:

It honestly greatly upsets me that religion is still a thing. It is a cancer to society

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I really don't want to derail the thread, but this is an exceptionally myopic view of religion.

Again, I don't want to begin a protracted debate, as it isn't quite what the OP is about, but just be wary of painting all of religion with a single brush, and neglect some of the enormously positive influences it can have on people's lives.

ExhaustedWalrus said:

I am a Christian, and this sort of mentality is why I am thinking about becoming Episcopalian. Right now, I'm non-denominational, but the Episcopalian church is so much more welcoming and open-minded compared to mega churches. Mega churches just feel way too big for their own good. There's a detachment between the leaders and the congregation.

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Yeah I was baptized Episcopalian and even if I'm no longer Christian I consider their church to be "one of the good ones" so to speak. Growing up I don't recall ever hearing much in the way of negativity during services. The messages were never truly inspiring to me, but there was usually an attempt to instill positivity through the Bible rather than anger and discontent like what was happening in the OP.

Yeah, I (like most) sort of have complex feelings on the matter. I do consider myself a Christian, but I don't go to church anymore, as I feel my last one failed me, and I just don't feel like there are any that suit me. Just some background- I am your typical straight married middle class guy who lives in PA suburbia, who believes strongly in equal rights for all

I thought I was mostly OK with the Lutheran Church I started attending for the first time as an adult after my 1st child was born, after all they were the Church that was allowing Gay clergy, and performing same sex marriage ceremonies, and I was cool with the pastor we had for a number of years, the sermons were pretty even handed, none of the crazy stuff, and pastor seemed a like a pretty down to earth guy. UNTIL the day the government finally federally legalized gay marriage, and the local paper did interviews with a number of local pastors on the subject- some were supportive, a lot were in the middle/diplomatic (admitted this is a jarring change for them, but they are praying about it), but of course my pastor had to be the one that declared "This is a sad day for our country! and went on the typical rant you would expect, and said while the main official Lutheran organization may give gay marriage blessing, its up to individual pastors/congregations to decide for itself how to run things.

I wound up going for maybe another year, but phased out, attended less and less, and now its basically been five years since I've bothered. THAT pastor isn't even there anymore, but I just can't bring myself to go back in, there or elsewhere. The thing is, despite what was posted in the paper, I still mostly liked the guy, but his thoughts on gays/ gay marriage stuck and I just can't get it out of my head, and that stink pretty much sticks with how I feel about organized church as a whole right now.

Ponn said:

Getting real tired of this "it's EVANGELICAL Christians, not real Christians" crap. What the OP described is your everyday common CHRISTIAN church that you will find in every city. And if you think it's secluded to only southern churches you got another thing coming.

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You might be "Getting real tired of it," but what OP is describing sounds much more like an Evangelical Conservative Christianity, not a traditional mainline Protestant, Catholic/Orthodox service. Maybe it was mainline Protestant, but usually those services aren't 20mins of live band Christian rock followed by a long sermon, they're much more traditional service or Mass. You also really don't find these sorts of religious productions in every city. They're much less common in the North East and West Coast. Mega church evangelism is just not as common in major metropolitan cities in the US, than it is in rural, or southern, agricultural states.

Also I didn't say that they're "not real Christians," so spare me your bull shit putting words in my post that aren't there.

And, of course, Evangelical Christianity is not secluded to the South, but the evangelical Christian movement started and is strongest in the South. There's some evangelical churches up near me, in shopping malls or converted pizza huts and stuff, but the mega churches are most common in the American south and rural America. The 'Mega Church' movement is generally associated with Evangelical Christianity... Sure, other denominations may have 'Mega Churches' or have like, one major event a year with tens of thousands of attendees packing a stadium or conference center, but that's pretty unusual.

I think this goes a bit too far but I do think something has to be done. I've always voted far left but I feel like the leftist parties don't do anything to help with integration and have zero plans to prepare for the upcoming climate change migration crisis.

You got to see how the sausage is made in the republican party and the reason why fox news is so effective. These people are conditioned to swallow down wholesale bullshit without question.

Every liberal should at some point in their lives sit through one of these services so they can understand what we are up against.

If my synagogue got that political we'd lose our tax exemption by the end of the week

conservative evangelical churches are a cognitive virus

RoyaleDuke said:

OP, this is pretty much most churches, and religious people. God don't want this bullshit but his followers sure seem to.



Careful you might get banned or warned for labeling conservatives and Christians like that.

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Labeling them what, conservative Christians? The horror.

We get it, someone has an anecdote of how their church is better than that and everyone are angels and surely none of them votes Republican conservative because of anti-gay marriage or abortion. It's just tiring to see the constant "no it's them Christians over there". Yet I've been to a Wesleyan Church in Michigan as a kid, Methodist church in my teens and my brother in laws Baptist Church. Fuck me if I could tell the difference.

I will admit that my brother in laws is mostly a black church and they had very little political talk (though his family still votes republican) and a lot more singing. It was probably the closest to evangelical out of them. The funny thing is while they also had the least amount of anti-gay overtones when my sister found out I was Bi I was flat out told I was not welcome there anymore.

The Albatross said:

You might be "Getting real tired of it," but what OP is describing sounds much more like an Evangelical Conservative Christianity, not a traditional mainline Protestant, Catholic/Orthodox service. Maybe it was mainline Protestant, but usually those services aren't 20mins of live band Christian rock followed by a long sermon, they're much more traditional service or Mass. You also really don't find these sorts of religious productions in every city. They're much less common in the North East and West Coast. Mega church evangelism is just not as common in major metropolitan cities in the US, than it is in rural, or southern, agricultural states.

Also I didn't say that they're "not real Christians," so spare me your bull shit putting words in my post that aren't there.

And, of course, Evangelical Christianity is not secluded to the South, but the evangelical Christian movement started and is strongest in the South. There's some evangelical churches up near me, in shopping malls or converted pizza huts and stuff, but the mega churches are most common in the American south and rural America. The 'Mega Church' movement is generally associated with Evangelical Christianity... Sure, other denominations may have 'Mega Churches' or have like, one major event a year with tens of thousands of attendees packing a stadium or conference center, but that's pretty unusual.

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Where have you been? There are several mega churches all over California. Also Evangelicals are more numerous than Catholics or "mainline"protestants in the US. Catholics also often vote pretty right on things like civil issues too so it's not like they're much better.
http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/

This is also confusing because many Baptists are hard right and just like Evangelicals, yet they're lumped in with liberal Episcopalians in the "mainline protestant" catergory

Ponn said:

Labeling them what, conservative Christians? The horror.

We get it, someone has an anecdote of how their church is better than that and everyone are angels and surely none of them votes Republican conservative because of anti-gay marriage or abortion. It's just tiring to see the constant "no it's them Christians over there".

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...

People break things into denominations because it's a useful statistic. Pretending that denominations don't exist because you're "tired of them" is ... nonsensical. Also my post, the one that kicked off this diatribe of yours, did not say that "my church is better than anybody else's." I'm an atheist, non-religious person, but just recognized that Evangelical Christianity is a thing and it's out there, and that's what set you off.

I don't know what anybody has to gain by pretending like there aren't divisions and denominations within Christianity. It's.. just a sociological and historical fact

Oh, maybe it was my second part of the quote, where someone asked, "Are these people the reason the world is so fucked up?" which I responded, "no they're not the reason, but they're part of the reason the world is so fucked up and not helping things."

PhazonBlonde said:

Where have you been? There are several mega churches all over California. Also Evangelicals are more numerous than Catholics or "mainline"protestants in the US. Catholics also often vote pretty right on things like civil issues too so it's not like they're much better.
http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/

This is also confusing because many Baptists are hard right and just like Evangelicals, yet they're lumped in with liberal Episcopalians in the "mainline protestant" catergory

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I'm not sure what post you read... But I was just saying that these different denominations exist, and that it's not all 'One World Christianity,' or something. Rather, woah, 'Evangelical services are pretty wild,' which set off another person telling me that I shouldn't pretend like Evangelicals aren't Christians or aren't True Christians, or something, which was just a weird interpretation of my post. Like, recognizing that denominations exist within CHristianity is not suggesting that one is not "True christianity" or somthing. As a non-religious person, I don't have a dog in the 'true Christianity' fight.

And, yeah, Evanglical CHristianity is the fasted growing division within Christianity. Which... would seem to suggest, as I said, that there are distinct divisions within Christianity, as opposed to what the other person was suggesting. Or at least, that's the idea someone else took issue with and they're "getting real tired of." Unfortunately, it's just a demographic fact: Christians are divided into denominations, both by themselves, and by people who study demographics.

Ponn said:

Labeling them what, conservative Christians? The horror.

We get it, someone has an anecdote of how their church is better than that and everyone are angels and surely none of them votes Republican conservative because of anti-gay marriage or abortion. It's just tiring to see the constant "no it's them Christians over there". Yet I've been to a Wesleyan Church in Michigan as a kid, Methodist church in my teens and my brother in laws Baptist Church. Fuck me if I could tell the difference.

I will admit that my brother in laws is mostly a black church and they had very little political talk (though his family still votes republican) and a lot more singing. It was probably the closest to evangelical out of them. The funny thing is while they also had the least amount of anti-gay overtones when my sister found out I was Bi I was flat out told I was not welcome there anymore.

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B-but their feelings! If you don't come to the table with them you'll just make them more evil and racist!

Then the mods will ban you for saying that they are in fact, evil.

ExhaustedWalrus said:

I am a Christian, and this sort of mentality is why I am thinking about becoming Episcopalian. Right now, I'm non-denominational, but the Episcopalian church is so much more welcoming and open-minded compared to mega churches. Mega churches just feel way too big for their own good. There's a detachment between the leaders and the congregation.

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A lot of my religious friends have drifted toward the Episcopal church as they've gotten older for the same reason. 100% of them are happy with the change, so I'd recommend checking it out.

That's not really even as bad as it gets. The 'Fire & Brimstone' gospel is very popular when I'm from.(are you wearing a skirt above the knees? You're a slut and you're going to burn in hell forever, etc.)

And some places have now just updated it with Trump worship. Don't support Trump? You'll have to answer for that when the devil puts you on the racks.

RoyaleDuke said:

B-but their feelings! If you don't come to the table with them you'll just make them more evil and racist!

Then the mods will ban you for saying that they are in fact, evil.

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It's an interesting narrative that you think that the mods are over-protective of religion here. Not many people get banned for criticizing religions or religous people. People get banned for, usually, being assholes to other people and being pointlessly antagonistic for no reason.

Otherwise, nobody is telling anybody to come to the table or any of what you're saying. You're making that up to feel better about yourself but... I don't know who you're arguing with... because nobody is asking anybody to come to any table.

Woof, OP brought up some bad memories.

I am a Catholic-Christian and just reading this makes me mad/sad. Some humans just butcher and twist the good word to their own liking. It's almost like brainwashing everyone.

I seldom go to church anymore as such but continue to keep my faith and belief in God and try to be the best person I can be. I never want to 'force' my beliefs on anyone however.

Mathieran said:

Anyone else have any experience with churches like this? Perhaps any tales of dissenting during or after a service?

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Honestly that doesn't' sound too bad... I went to a christian evangelical church for 22+ years (basically since I was born until very recently that I stopped going because I didnt want to anymore) and a lot of what you said is very similar (one nation under god, and blah blah blah).... oh and the occasional homophobia here and there. I never really questioned or challanged much of what was preached because it would have just been me vs an entire congregation and that's not to say that everyone believed everything or believed the same way, but there's a lot of shared belief and dogma like thinking. It is very off-putting especially the anti-LGBT rhetoric as an LGBT person yourself.

lunchtoast said:

My ex used to go to a spanish speaking church. The pastor used to talk about how evil gays are and said going to music concerts are evil because you shouldn't be praising/cheering anyone other than god.

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Sounds like the church I used to go to "no concerts and no singing of mundane music that doesn't praise the Lord!" lol

The Albatross said:

...

People break things into denominations because it's a useful statistic. Pretending that denominations don't exist because you're "tired of them" is ... nonsensical. Also my post, the one that kicked off this diatribe of yours, did not say that "my church is better than anybody else's." I'm an atheist, non-religious person, but just recognized that Evangelical Christianity is a thing and it's out there, and that's what set you off.

I don't know what anybody has to gain by pretending like there aren't divisions and denominations within Christianity. It's.. just a sociological and historical fact

Oh, maybe it was my second part of the quote, where someone asked, "Are these people the reason the world is so fucked up?" which I responded, "no they're not the reason, but they're part of the reason the world is so fucked up and not helping things."



I'm not sure what post you read... But I was just saying that these different denominations exist, and that it's not all 'One World Christianity,' or something. Rather, woah, 'Evangelical services are pretty wild,' which set off another person telling me that I shouldn't pretend like Evangelicals aren't Christians or aren't True Christians, or something, which was just a weird interpretation of my post. Like, recognizing that denominations exist within CHristianity is not suggesting that one is not "True christianity" or somthing. As a non-religious person, I don't have a dog in the 'true Christianity' fight.

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Christianity and its denominations vary more wildly by country and culture than denomination I believe. And it's no good pretending American Christians aren't mostly (not entirely, MOSTLY) right wing conservative in their beliefs, because no matter if they're evangelical or baptist or catholic it all amounts to the same thing. Yes there are a minority of progressive denominations but we're talking about who the majority is. And the statistics bear out that between Evangelicals and Mormons most protestant christians in America are Trump supporters.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/how-the-faithful-voted-a-preliminary-2016-analysis/

My fiancé's parents are super 50's style Christans and they make me go to church when we visit in Nashville. I hate every second of it and I'm bored out of my mind every time. I love her dad, but he and her mom are so ass backwards with times. For example, I'm not allowed to be alone with her behind closed doors and we are both in our mid 20's, engaged, and have dated for 5 years. I love when people make sex jokes to us around her parents and watching them squirm though lol.

I went to a megachurch once with the inlaws. It had a Starbucks in it. That's really all I need to say.

rokkerkory said:

I am a Catholic-Christian and just reading this makes me mad/sad. Some humans just butcher and twist the good word to their own liking. It's almost like brainwashing everyone.

I seldom go to church anymore as such but continue to keep my faith and belief in God and try to be the best person I can be. I never want to 'force' my beliefs on anyone however.

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I'm glad you're trying to be a good person.

But the harsher interpretations of Christianity are generally the more grounded in "the good word".

The Bible says you should kill atheists, witches, and gays. It endorses slavery. It advocates eternal torture. It justifies genocide and murder. Pretending it doesn't say those things is "twisting it".

Mathieran said:

.

We need churches that tackle the troubling history of the church in a historically accurate way, while promoting the teachings of Jesus Christ. They are difficult to find. I consider myself agnostic, but Christianity is what I'm most familiar with. The state of Christianity keeps me from getting involved with the church.

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One of my issues with Christianity is that today, they promote a message of peace, love, forgiveness, ' love thy neighbour' and all that. However, the Church doesn't really talk about it's bloody past, like the Crusades for example.

In 1099 the Crusaders sacked the city of Jerusalem. They didn't just sack the city, they went on a full blown massacre. The bloodlust was so great, that eye witness accounts talk of people wading ankle deep in blood. Over 10 thousand put to the sword, all in the name of Jesus Christ.

That's just one example of blood lust in the name of Jesus and the Church. love thy neighbour, but only if your neighbor is a Christian.

Albatross is correct that this type of thing is not normal in mainline Protestantism. I think evangelicals might outnumber mainliners at this point, though.

I grew up with this nonsense. It's been building and growing for the past 30 years in the US. It's Culture War Christianity and it's 100% bullshit. You made it longer than I would have, OP. I won't sit through that anymore and would walk out with my family the second the service went in that direction.

Retroarnold said:

One of my issues with Christianity is that today, they promote a message of peace, love, forgiveness, ' love thy neighbour' and all that. However, the Church doesn't really talk about it's bloody past, like the Crusades for example.

In 1099 the Crusaders sacked the city of Jerusalem. They didn't just sack the city, they went on a full blown massacre. The bloodlust was so great, that eye witness accounts talk of people wading ankle deep in blood. Over 10 thousand put to the sword, all in the name of Jesus Christ.

That's just one example of blood lust in the name of Jesus and the Church. love thy neighbour, but only if your neighbor is a Christian.

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For what it's worth, Protestants/Evangelicals would argue that the church lost its way for about 1000 years up until the reformation started by Martin Luther. To those denominations, the church was illegitimate and not reflective of the Gospel told in the Bible. Pretty much every Protestant/Evangelical would condemn the Crusades. And a bunch of other shenanigans of the church at that time.

DarthSpider said:

I remember snagging a copy of Resident Evil 2 for PS from the casket before they lit that shit on fire. There was so much awesome stuff in that casket.

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Amazing.

I remember going to a sermon around 8-10 years ago, and the pastor read an forwarded email chain about some kid debating an atheist professor in college and it turned out to be Albert Einstein. It was real bad

Growing up in the south as part of a Southern Baptist family, I've long had my issues with churches down there to the point that I never wanted to step foot into another one. But one of the worst was in my mid-20s, the girl I was dating (and quite serious about) asked me to come and watch her sing in the choir one Sunday. She said I could sit in the balcony where the all the AV equipment was because the congregation and pastor weren't OK with interracial relationships (strike 1, 2, and 3), and it would be best if I weren't seen. I got to know another couple there afterwards who wasn't married, but they were about to have a kid. The baby was born premature, and died after about a month in the hospital. They held a funeral for the baby, and in it, the redneck pastor said the couple were being punished for having a baby out of wedlock while advising them to not do it again unless they wanted to burn in hell for eternity. That same pastor was the one trying to convince my girlfriend at the time to dump me because it was a "sin" for her to date or have sex with a black man. It was after finding that out, I'm not ashamed to say that I was hoping his church would burn to the fucking ground. Since then, I've not stepped into a church unless it were for a wedding or a funeral. But now that I have a son, if my wife wants him to go to church (we agreed it would be a Universalist one), I might be open to trying it again for his sake.

Saya said:

Did the pastor do this?

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Wow. This is one of the best things i've ever seen

scottbeowulf said:

I went to a megachurch once with the inlaws. It had a Starbucks in it. That's really all I need to say.

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We have a huge megachurch here in town. They have 30,000 to 40,000 members. Here is a random video of it from YT (yes, this is a church service)...

RedValkyrie said:

From what you said I really don't see what made you angry.

The evolution part was stupid but other than that it sounded like any other Christian service.

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That's pretty alarming then. That service was full of incredibly harmful misinformation being peddled to an unthinking and unquestioning mass. That this sort of disgusting indoctrination is common and even mainstream in the country should be alarming to anyone interested in progress, education, and critical thinking.

PhazonBlonde said:

The couple I went to were very heavy on the "women submit to your husband" and not taking authority over a man. There was absolutely zero about finding your own identity or being your own person. The entire discussions were framed entirely around men and that our value was basically tied to the type of husband we could get and the babies we could give him. That and a lot of purity bs and romanticizing that in a weird way, shaming women who werent pure as being damaged or dirty. (which was fucked up to me, I was molested when I was little and lost my virginity at 14 and was actively having premarital sex with bf). Also heavy implications that you don't respect yourself and are inviting others to disrespect you if you show too much skin in the way you dress

There was also a disturbing amount of defense being played for men who cheat. Basically the whole "It's your fault your guy cheated on you because you nag him or else don't give him sex enough."

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That is beyond disgusting. :( I'm sorry you went through this. I don't know how you didn't lose your sanity.

RoyaleDuke said:

Then the mods will ban you for saying that they are in fact, evil.

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Knock it off.

Most of them are probably places to politically indoctrinate people at this point. The whole thing is just not designed to do anything else. Especially when you compare it to what went on in the first century.

If they were accurately trying to "teach" people, everyone in there who's been attending for more than 4-5 years should be qualified enough to go to the front to teach anyone else there and should be able to flow through the entirity of the book harmonizing at least one subject and not just qouting half a sentence every once in a while. But you see people at these places 30-40 years and still babies. Having to be reminded of the same basic concepts of treating people with respect, not gossiping etc, and they can't even mature in that aspect.

Then you hear the nonsensical doctrine of "always a sinner" so you can't make progress and grow as a person and have an excuse not to be better or change. There are things in nature that transform, change and develop, there's no excuse for that reasoning to me.

Complete waste of time.

Boiled Goose said:

I'm glad you're trying to be a good person.

But the harsher interpretations of Christianity are generally the more grounded in "the good word".

The Bible says you should kill atheists, witches, and gays. It endorses slavery. It advocates eternal torture. It justifies genocide and murder. Pretending it doesn't say those things is "twisting it".

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The Bible was also written my humans who aren't perfect. Never in my time in learning about being a good Catholic did anyone ever advocate those things which are obviously wrong. Thou shall not kill is a commandment after-all.

At the end of the day, I am posting in this thread because what the OP witnessed is just plain terrible. It sounds like brain-washing. My own experience is very much different and I still hold the faith because God helped me so much. With that being said, I am not here to put my own beliefs on anyone as each person should decide for themselves.

PancakeFlip said:

Most of them are probably places to politically indoctrinate people at this point. The whole thing is just not designed to do anything else. Especially when you compare it to what went on in the first century.

If they were accurately trying to "teach" people, everyone in there who's been attending for more than 4-5 years should be qualified enough to go to the front to teach anyone else there and should be able to flow through the entirity of the book harmonizing at least one subject and not just qouting half a sentence every once in a while. But you see people at these places 30-40 years and still babies. Having to be reminded of the same basic concepts of treating people with respect, not gossiping etc, and they can't even mature in that aspect.

Then you hear the nonsensical doctrine of "always a sinner" so you can't make progress and grow as a person and have an excuse not to be better or change. There are things in nature that transform, change and develop, there's no excuse for that reasoning to me.

Complete waste of time.

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My girlfriend says it best; "If you need a book and threats of eternal torture to be a good person, that says a lot about you and how potentially dangerous you are."

Morrigan

I'm doing okay now; I never married into that family thankfully and I'm away from the situation now. Also I was old enough at the time to realize on some level what horrible bs it was so it didn't do too much to mess with my head.