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chaosaeon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,116
You know, I never knew there were so many banned and restricted cards in MTG. Way back when I first got into it, I always thought magic was pretty cautious about making potentially OP or exploitable cards. I guess when you keep coming out with 2 or 3 new sets a year you're bound to overlook something when there's so many cards now. Back when I was basically a kid when I played both this and Yugioh for funs, I guess I didn't consider that both had that kind of issue (though yugioh is proper fucked by that stuff and a joke now tbh).

I guess I'm always put off by metas and min/maxing in card games but it seems somewhat difficult to really get into something while only being in it for fun at the same time because many of the people who are also into it are more competitive.
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
11,737
There usually aren't too many bans in Standard, though the last couple of years of Standard are maybe not the best example of that fact. (hi kaladesh)

The closest it's gotten to Yu-Gi-Oh "card released as restricted" levels of craziness was the windmill slam of Smug Copter onto the Standard banlist.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,772
I know I saw Shaman as a potential problem right when it first got spoiled, but I'll admit that it took me a really long time to see Probe as a problem, and it's impressive to see such an unassuming card be as banned as it gets in Magic.

Also: R.I.P. everyone who was waiting to buy Chainwhirlers.
 

BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
I don't know if you even need to play Chainwhirlers since the threat of them already makes all the Llanowar Elves of the world to go away. It's not terribly impressive as a 3/3 First Striker.
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,329
You know, I never knew there were so many banned and restricted cards in MTG. Way back when I first got into it, I always thought magic was pretty cautious about making potentially OP or exploitable cards. I guess when you keep coming out with 2 or 3 new sets a year you're bound to overlook something when there's so many cards now. Back when I was basically a kid when I played both this and Yugioh for funs, I guess I didn't consider that both had that kind of issue (though yugioh is proper fucked by that stuff and a joke now tbh).

I guess I'm always put off by metas and min/maxing in card games but it seems somewhat difficult to really get into something while only being in it for fun at the same time because many of the people who are also into it are more competitive.

Older formats have always had bans
Usually, there are no bans in Standard. The last 2 years though was a conflux of issues- they wanted to make "story" characters and cards playable competitively so they pushed them, they decided they wanted no "hate" cards in standard, they created a new card type, and they made an artifact block. This led to things like us getting a broken artifact block without any 2 mana or less answers to artifacts (for the first time in the history of the game, there was not a 2 mana "Destroy Target Artifact or Enchantment" card in standard), Vehicles being new and not being costed properly, and a broken legendary creature that was "fair" because you needed to have a bunch of unique graveyard things, with no playable way to attack graveyards. They have gotten better- the last few sets (and Core 2019 in particular) are full of answer cards, and we hopefully won't need more bannings for a long time, but the fact that they did so many bannings in a short period- with the real crown jewel being banning Saheeli Twin 2 days after the B&R announcement of "no changes" and a long explanation that "we have the data that shows this isn't that good"- is going to lead people to want/think more things should be banned
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Chainwhirler explanation is basically "the stuff that makes it good (like Heart of Kiran) is about to rotate." That's a reasonable take.
 

Justin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,758
Seattle, Washington
Arena Update

- July 12th Core Set release

- New player tutorial - 5 campaigns to unlock new mono color decks, Quests after to unlock new multi color decks

-"Brewers Delight" event with special rewards

- Wild Card Track - Every three packs you open you get a uncommon or higher wildcard

- Still working on the "5th card problem"

- They will be testing putting this update out with zero down time. If you are in game you will get a message to log out and back in


https://youtu.be/UwTYiG42pPU
 

chaosaeon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,116
They have gotten better- the last few sets (and Core 2019 in particular) are full of answer cards
That's the kind of thing that really bugs me ; having to invent specific cards to fill a need to answer other cards. Stuffing a deck or wasting space in a sideboard with a pile of different "just in case" cards for if someone's playing something that turned out to be a little unbalanced is a bit of a buzzkill. It's the card game equivalent of finding out they have a rat, so they release a snake to get rid of it. That's kind of unfortunate. I guess the only alternative would be ban or restrict those cards which isn't much better so it puts everything in a weird position.
 

Arkanim94

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,136
That's the kind of thing that really bugs me ; having to invent specific cards to fill a need to answer other cards. Stuffing a deck or wasting space in a sideboard with a pile of different "just in case" cards for if someone's playing something that turned out to be a little unbalanced is a bit of a buzzkill. It's the card game equivalent of finding out they have a rat, so they release a snake to get rid of it. That's kind of unfortunate. I guess the only alternative would be ban or restrict those cards which isn't much better so it puts everything in a weird position.
sideboard games have always been a core part of the more serious games.
goblin chainwielder hopefully won't be so much of a problem with kaladesh and amonketh out of the picture.
 

QFNS

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
935
Sounds like Arena is getting ready to go bigger soon, also. the video talked about adding lots more players ~July 20th and giving current players invite codes so they could sign up friends.

Also customizible avatars so not every game is Teferi v Jaya.
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
11,737
I mean, every card in the game is fundamentally an "answer" card. A Lightning Bolt is an answer to the vast majority of creatures, and also an answer to your opponent having a face. A Counterspell is an answer to virtually everything. A big fat butt beat-stick monster is an answer to your opponent blowing up all your smaller creatures with Lightning Bolts.

It gets a bit embarrassing when you have to print something that's a super-specific answer to a single deck archetype (like the new Energy Hoser), but it's not like we're running around with a bunch of Anti-Raigeki and White Hole cards or anything.
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,329
That part about how they are doing the patch without taking the servers down is cool.
How is Arena compared to MTGO?
The biggest flaw with the game (the F2P economy is fundamentally broken and won't ever be fixed unless they scrap the entire system) is something that you don't really use when comparing it to MTGO, as MTGO has no F2P element
It still has some issues (you can't easily see what has happened like PW targeting), and sometimes card text gets cut off (I have to have Gatherer nearby when I play Pia Nalaar as her 2nd ability gets cut off in windowed mode), but its a great way to play Standard if you are willing to throw $100 at it
 

Ultron

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,770
How is Arena compared to MTGO?

I'm enjoying the actual play experience a ton. Upfront I'll note I did put some money in so I could put together a good Standard deck, so I can't comment on the free to play experience. As someone who hasn't played Standard, or constructed Magic in general, in quite a long time, it's pretty fun to have a super easy way to play a lot of matches and get a feel for a format. I think if you wanted to seriously practice competitively, especially for Draft, you definitely want to stick with MTGO, but as something that fits into the same play patterns as I was using Hearthstone for, I'm fairly happy with it.
 

Poppy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,275
richmond, va
i want to play arena but they still don't have a friends list and direct challenges yet right? that and the idea that my collection might get wiped since it's in beta makes me not want to bother committing yet. i really only want to play with my friends mostly
 

RiOrius

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,083
That part about how they are doing the patch without taking the servers down is cool.

The biggest flaw with the game (the F2P economy is fundamentally broken and won't ever be fixed unless they scrap the entire system) is something that you don't really use when comparing it to MTGO, as MTGO has no F2P element
It still has some issues (you can't easily see what has happened like PW targeting), and sometimes card text gets cut off (I have to have Gatherer nearby when I play Pia Nalaar as her 2nd ability gets cut off in windowed mode), but its a great way to play Standard if you are willing to throw $100 at it
You can scroll long text boxes with the mousewheel.
 

zoukka

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
2,361
I'm enjoying the actual play experience a ton. Upfront I'll note I did put some money in so I could put together a good Standard deck, so I can't comment on the free to play experience. As someone who hasn't played Standard, or constructed Magic in general, in quite a long time, it's pretty fun to have a super easy way to play a lot of matches and get a feel for a format. I think if you wanted to seriously practice competitively, especially for Draft, you definitely want to stick with MTGO, but as something that fits into the same play patterns as I was using Hearthstone for, I'm fairly happy with it.

It plays pretty well but is still in beta and has lots of weird quirks they are slowly ironing out. Also the economy is still in flux. They mentioned sending out a bunch more beta invites in a couple weeks so go sign up if you haven't already.

The biggest flaw with the game (the F2P economy is fundamentally broken and won't ever be fixed unless they scrap the entire system) is something that you don't really use when comparing it to MTGO, as MTGO has no F2P element
It still has some issues (you can't easily see what has happened like PW targeting), and sometimes card text gets cut off (I have to have Gatherer nearby when I play Pia Nalaar as her 2nd ability gets cut off in windowed mode), but its a great way to play Standard if you are willing to throw $100 at it

Danke!
 

Deleted member 3853

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
801
BR reanimator and D&T owner here. FeelsAmazingMan. Only a little bummed that I didn't pull the trigger on selling my extra Underground Sea last week since Sea decks got hit HARD.


I don't think it's all bad. D&T just got a big boost in legacy and the total deck is only like $1000 which is going to be a steal for a tier 1 legacy deck lol. Could also see a return of UWR delver.

Tomorrow will be the first, and last time I play Legacy Maverick at an official event then.

Just turn it into G/W maverick like the old days. Probably wouldn't feel good picking up Hierarchs but it'll still be a good deck.
 

Arkanim94

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,136
BR reanimator and D&T owner here. FeelsAmazingMan. Only a little bummed that I didn't pull the trigger on selling my extra Underground Sea last week since Sea decks got hit HARD.



I don't think it's all bad. D&T just got a big boost in legacy and the total deck is only like $1000 which is going to be a steal for a tier 1 legacy deck lol. Could also see a return of UWR delver.



Just turn it into G/W maverick like the old days. Probably wouldn't feel good picking up Hierarchs but it'll still be a good deck.
e8a.jpg
 

Deleted member 3853

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
801

Hey man, I know it sucks but it's just reality. The days of viable $500-600 decks are long gone and only reason D&T is where it's at is boatloads of recent reprints, no RL cards, and not being able to compete against these greed decks that could run Leovold, DRS, K-Command, and basics. Not ideal but $1000 is better than $2000-7000 that every other good deck sits in.
 

Edward

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
5,121
Is $150 a good deal for a "good" well played Mox Diamond? No damage, bends or anything.

Now that i started again and Commander is my choice of play i want to build a Sliver EDH (since my main deck when i quick was a Sliver, love the slivers.) and i don't want to buy Dual Lands anytime soon and since i have now amassed all the non-land/mana rocks for the deck i am in the process of getting them.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,550
Lord Windgrace art spotted. Probably gonna be one of the commanders for C18.

 

GoutPatrol

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,697
Just turn it into G/W maverick like the old days. Probably wouldn't feel good picking up Hierarchs but it'll still be a good deck.

It won't, but that is what proxy tournaments and sharpies are for. I would rather pivot into Turbo/BG Depths and try those out, because then I would play with Bobs and Tracker.

I'm putting the finishing touches on my Jund deck today as well. Getting my 4th LotV so I have everything a Jund player could want. I'm also finishing my set of Bedlam Revelers, in case Jund continues to be just good instead of JUND. I'm thinking about GP Hong Kong, and what I would play there in September.
 

Edward

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
5,121
Does Atraxa's proliferate work on lands like Gemstone mine,Time Spiral storage lands and Ice Age/Mercadian Masques depletion lands?
 

Imperfected

Member
Nov 9, 2017
11,737
Does Atraxa's proliferate work on lands like Gemstone mine,Time Spiral storage lands and Ice Age/Mercadian Masques depletion lands?

Yes. The only real restrictions are that it doesn't work on suspend cards (because they aren't technically in play), and if a card has multiple counter types it will only increment one of the types.
 

A_Dang

Member
Oct 27, 2017
262
Western New York
Random basic land question:

I was looking through different island arts and came across these by J. W. Frost, which as far as I can tell are only in World Championship Decks:
19970315d.jpg
19970315c.jpg
19970315b.jpg
19970315a.jpg


Is that really the only printing of these lands? I love the look of them and would love to use them in some decks...but I don't want to deal with the gold border...
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,329
Random basic land question:

I was looking through different island arts and came across these by J. W. Frost, which as far as I can tell are only in World Championship Decks:
19970315d.jpg
19970315c.jpg
19970315b.jpg
19970315a.jpg


Is that really the only printing of these lands? I love the look of them and would love to use them in some decks...but I don't want to deal with the gold border...

Those are 5th Edition Basics. You can get them in a white border! As best I can tell, there was no FBB printing of 5th edition
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,329


Mr "Anita Sarkeesian is responsible for Charlottesville" is, as far as I know (because they haven't put out a statement saying they aren't) sponsered by Wizards, who sends him product to open on his channel
When they issued that Unsleeved Media guy a lifetime ban for being a troll dipshit, they cited their code of conduct as the reason for giving him a lifetime ban (https://company.wizards.com/legal/code-conduct)

I want to pull from their code of conduct:
3. Do not harass, bully, threaten, harm or cause discomfort for other persons, including any other members. For example:

  • Use of hate speech or racial, ethnic, sexist, homophobic or religious slurs;
  • Harassment of a specific person (repeated flaming, personal attacks or posting their private information);
  • Trolling or baiting the community in general with inflammatory statements, such as ones designed to elicit a negative response from the community; or
  • Posting or otherwise disclosing any personal or private information of another person, or any confidential information pertaining to a business, without consent.
While I don't have a detailed list of the shit Boogie has done, I'm pretty sure someone can find stuff to fit him into this. WOTC needs to AT MINIMUM stop sponering videos, and probably ban his ass. Of course, as the Hearthstone Showcase shows, they are going to bend over backwards to protect a former VGA Trending Gamer of the Year over actually doing the right thing...
 

Ultron

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,770
Bigkrev Which videos are you saying are sponsored? I don't see any MTG stuff from him recently on his Youtube at least.
 

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,329
Thank you so much!

Though I do prefer how bright the Championship Deck printing is, I'm definitely going to pick some of these up next time I'm ordering cards.
Just remember that while your EDH/Cube/Casual playgroup may be OK with the championship deck cards, they do not have normal card backs and are NOT tournament legal cards

Bigkrev Which videos are you saying are sponsored? I don't see any MTG stuff from him recently on his Youtube at least.
He has a Dominaria unboxing on his Twitch at least- i'm not watching to see if it's sponsered, but in the past WOTC has sent him a bunch of stuff
 
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