Before I start, I just want to say that my son's middle name is Belmont, but I don't have a ClassicVania bias. I'm an IGA fan to the core and I think Symphony, the Sorrow games, and Ecclesia are the bests in the series. Basically, I love Castlevania, and IGAvanias are the main reason. I'm a backer of Bloodstained, and I REALLY want this game to be amazing. I also adored Curse of the Moon.
But after closely watching development progress over the years and playing the demos for hours at both E3 and at home, I am quickly losing faith. I think what we have seen and played is sorta bad. Ok, maybe really bad. I'll use this most recent backer demo as the example.
The Good:
1. The Feel
I think the game FEELS right. Movement and weapons feel good. The jumping and canceling makes combat a joy. I was really worried about this, but I'm glad this stuff is ok. Maybe a taaad floaty, but I'm doing the stuff i want to do. One exception may be the odd inconsistency I'm having with the boots/katana's special 'rekka' like moves. But maybe I just need to practice more.
2. The Meat (potentially)
I like a lot of these systems (historically). The Soul system from the Sorrow games is so easily the best RPG system in any IGAvania. It allows for an amazing amount of variety, and it can be super addictive getting all of the souls and leveling them up. These shards are basically the same, so that's good. Plentiful loots, shard upgrades, crafting, side quests. All of these are great and the reason the best IGAvania's end up feeling so meaty. This the the "Vania" part of the MetroidVania and I feel like there will be plenty to mess around with. It's nice to see side quests making a return as well.
3. The Second Boss
This was a pretty solid fight. It's no Aria's Julius fight, but I like a good 1v1 with a boss my size.
The BAD:
1. The Visuals
Yuck. The models and animations look ok I guess. The environments are just bad. I know it has been improving, but I really don't think this is nice to look at. Even low budget indie metroidvanias have managed to find art styles that work within budget constraints. Ugh. I'm not going to harp on this too much though, because this wouldn't keep me from loving a game. But the presentation, in general, feels really budget. Almost a joke compared to the competition these days.
2. The First Boss
This was not good at all. And I feel like the visual style of the attacks (and the boss itself) when they move into the background/foreground during certain parts of the fight really hurt precision here. It was really hard to tell when the tentacles could actually hurt me or when they couldn't. It also was a little too easy and uninspired.
2. The Randomness/Balance Issues
There is a randomness to a lot of the elements in this game that make everything feel really sloppy and thrown together. To some degree, Symphony felt like this. But these elements got refined and more balanced as the series went on. Here, it feels even messier than Symphony.
The weapons are all over the place. Why would I use a regular sword over a katana, a knife over kicks, or a whip over a lance. The latter options have special abilities or in the case of the whip, the other ranged options simply outperform (no landing/back dash canceling with the whip). Are they seriously going to make a useless whip? Why can't weapon types give other bonuses that give them a purpose? Like maybe a whip could do a lot more damage if you hit with the tip (Marth style), or daggers give a boost to walk speed, or heavy swords boost defense, or certain weapon types could synergize with certain shard attacks. Something to add a little flavor and reason for use. Because as it stands, I see no reason why I wouldn't use a katana or lance for the whole game.
Shard spells are even worse. These seem really lazy and poorly balanced. Many are just summoning a version of the enemy that spawned the shard. Few of the spells actually feel all that different from one another in terms of situational use. And why are some enemy summons (bat) one type of shard, while other enemy summons (frog) a different type of shard? It seems really arbitrary. What about that one giant, room clearing shard attack the first boss drops. Why is that only a little more MP than shard attacks that are far weaker or useless? The whooole system feels like a mess. I'm hoping that shard upgrading helps, but I'm worried it might do the opposite. Again, I know the Sorrow games had similar issues, but it felt nowhere near this sloppy or uninspired.
3. The RPG Pacing
Now this one, admittedly, is one I actually DO believe might be a lot different in the final game. But if it is NOT, holy crap. The rate at which they player received new weapons and shards is ridiculous. You get weapons and shards so fast in this demo, they lose all meaning and don't even remotely feel special. I seriously threw out an attack in a room, killed three different enemies, and got three new shards one right after the other. I already didn't care about 80% of the weapons and spells I received because of the rate I was getting new things.
Obviously, this is likely (hopefully) tweaked in such a way for demo purposes. Maybe they want it to be a vertical slice of sorts to show off variety. Even the shops and crafting screens showed way too much, too early. I really hope they pay attention to how to properly drip feed these things to the player.
4. The Level Design
This is the biggest problem, and the one that inspired me to write this (most likely unpopular) thread. What the fuck is going on here? We have now seen a few areas from this game, and what we have gotten has been room after room of nothing but a few platforms to jump up onto.
No platforming challenges, hazards or traps, unique enemy placement, puzzles, or ANY. FUCKING. THING. It's a bunch of nothing. Nothing to make one room or area feel distinct from another. It's a joke. I've seen rogue-like metroidvanias that have randomly generated maps with more design than this. It comes off like a horrifyingly uninspired take on the most basic version of this formula.
People have given IGA games shit in the past for bad level design. But everything we've seen here makes Portrait of Ruin look like Mario Fucking Galaxy. Even at their worst, IGAvanias still have distinct areas, rooms, enemy patterns with memorable layouts. Even the enemy placement seems arbitrary here. I honestly can't remember a single room or tell you what makes one area different from another. I sorta remember canons on the boat? Uhhh. And uh, that one roof in the village caves in. And, well, hrm... Yeesh.
This seriously feels as non-designed (even worse) than the map layouts in the PS2 Castlevania games. I'm getting really sad just thinking about it.
Let me end with saying that I don't believe IGAvanias were without some of these flaws. But I DO think they were much stronger in nearly all of these aspects. They are also all 10 to 20 years old now. We live in a world now were every indie developer under the sun who grew up loving Super Metroid and Symphony of the Night are now making exceptional versions of these games. This is a post Hollow Knight world. Ok, also Cave Story, Ori, Guacamelee, SteamWorld, Axiom Verge, Salt and Sanctuary, Rogue Legacy, Dust, Dead Cells, Chasm, etc etc. The bar of quality has been raised, and I'm really worried this game is not only not living up to IGAvania expectations, but it might not even have a place in where the genre is right now.
It's so easy to read my rant of sorts and respond with "well they aren't done yet". But what have we seen or played that should be instilling me with confidence here? They've been working on this for yeeears and this is still all we have. Surely they are at the point where they would add, I dunno, actual level design. I pray that the devs see this and put extra effort into level and map design. We have enough weapons, I can deal with the visuals, and I don't care about the story. Please give us a memorable world to explore or you are gonna break my goddamn heart.
Also, please please pleeease don't throw my precious IGAvanias under the bus in an attempt to convince me that this game is "good enough". :(
But after closely watching development progress over the years and playing the demos for hours at both E3 and at home, I am quickly losing faith. I think what we have seen and played is sorta bad. Ok, maybe really bad. I'll use this most recent backer demo as the example.
The Good:
1. The Feel
I think the game FEELS right. Movement and weapons feel good. The jumping and canceling makes combat a joy. I was really worried about this, but I'm glad this stuff is ok. Maybe a taaad floaty, but I'm doing the stuff i want to do. One exception may be the odd inconsistency I'm having with the boots/katana's special 'rekka' like moves. But maybe I just need to practice more.
2. The Meat (potentially)
I like a lot of these systems (historically). The Soul system from the Sorrow games is so easily the best RPG system in any IGAvania. It allows for an amazing amount of variety, and it can be super addictive getting all of the souls and leveling them up. These shards are basically the same, so that's good. Plentiful loots, shard upgrades, crafting, side quests. All of these are great and the reason the best IGAvania's end up feeling so meaty. This the the "Vania" part of the MetroidVania and I feel like there will be plenty to mess around with. It's nice to see side quests making a return as well.
3. The Second Boss
This was a pretty solid fight. It's no Aria's Julius fight, but I like a good 1v1 with a boss my size.
The BAD:
1. The Visuals
Yuck. The models and animations look ok I guess. The environments are just bad. I know it has been improving, but I really don't think this is nice to look at. Even low budget indie metroidvanias have managed to find art styles that work within budget constraints. Ugh. I'm not going to harp on this too much though, because this wouldn't keep me from loving a game. But the presentation, in general, feels really budget. Almost a joke compared to the competition these days.
2. The First Boss
This was not good at all. And I feel like the visual style of the attacks (and the boss itself) when they move into the background/foreground during certain parts of the fight really hurt precision here. It was really hard to tell when the tentacles could actually hurt me or when they couldn't. It also was a little too easy and uninspired.
2. The Randomness/Balance Issues
There is a randomness to a lot of the elements in this game that make everything feel really sloppy and thrown together. To some degree, Symphony felt like this. But these elements got refined and more balanced as the series went on. Here, it feels even messier than Symphony.
The weapons are all over the place. Why would I use a regular sword over a katana, a knife over kicks, or a whip over a lance. The latter options have special abilities or in the case of the whip, the other ranged options simply outperform (no landing/back dash canceling with the whip). Are they seriously going to make a useless whip? Why can't weapon types give other bonuses that give them a purpose? Like maybe a whip could do a lot more damage if you hit with the tip (Marth style), or daggers give a boost to walk speed, or heavy swords boost defense, or certain weapon types could synergize with certain shard attacks. Something to add a little flavor and reason for use. Because as it stands, I see no reason why I wouldn't use a katana or lance for the whole game.
Shard spells are even worse. These seem really lazy and poorly balanced. Many are just summoning a version of the enemy that spawned the shard. Few of the spells actually feel all that different from one another in terms of situational use. And why are some enemy summons (bat) one type of shard, while other enemy summons (frog) a different type of shard? It seems really arbitrary. What about that one giant, room clearing shard attack the first boss drops. Why is that only a little more MP than shard attacks that are far weaker or useless? The whooole system feels like a mess. I'm hoping that shard upgrading helps, but I'm worried it might do the opposite. Again, I know the Sorrow games had similar issues, but it felt nowhere near this sloppy or uninspired.
3. The RPG Pacing
Now this one, admittedly, is one I actually DO believe might be a lot different in the final game. But if it is NOT, holy crap. The rate at which they player received new weapons and shards is ridiculous. You get weapons and shards so fast in this demo, they lose all meaning and don't even remotely feel special. I seriously threw out an attack in a room, killed three different enemies, and got three new shards one right after the other. I already didn't care about 80% of the weapons and spells I received because of the rate I was getting new things.
Obviously, this is likely (hopefully) tweaked in such a way for demo purposes. Maybe they want it to be a vertical slice of sorts to show off variety. Even the shops and crafting screens showed way too much, too early. I really hope they pay attention to how to properly drip feed these things to the player.
4. The Level Design
This is the biggest problem, and the one that inspired me to write this (most likely unpopular) thread. What the fuck is going on here? We have now seen a few areas from this game, and what we have gotten has been room after room of nothing but a few platforms to jump up onto.
No platforming challenges, hazards or traps, unique enemy placement, puzzles, or ANY. FUCKING. THING. It's a bunch of nothing. Nothing to make one room or area feel distinct from another. It's a joke. I've seen rogue-like metroidvanias that have randomly generated maps with more design than this. It comes off like a horrifyingly uninspired take on the most basic version of this formula.
People have given IGA games shit in the past for bad level design. But everything we've seen here makes Portrait of Ruin look like Mario Fucking Galaxy. Even at their worst, IGAvanias still have distinct areas, rooms, enemy patterns with memorable layouts. Even the enemy placement seems arbitrary here. I honestly can't remember a single room or tell you what makes one area different from another. I sorta remember canons on the boat? Uhhh. And uh, that one roof in the village caves in. And, well, hrm... Yeesh.
This seriously feels as non-designed (even worse) than the map layouts in the PS2 Castlevania games. I'm getting really sad just thinking about it.
Let me end with saying that I don't believe IGAvanias were without some of these flaws. But I DO think they were much stronger in nearly all of these aspects. They are also all 10 to 20 years old now. We live in a world now were every indie developer under the sun who grew up loving Super Metroid and Symphony of the Night are now making exceptional versions of these games. This is a post Hollow Knight world. Ok, also Cave Story, Ori, Guacamelee, SteamWorld, Axiom Verge, Salt and Sanctuary, Rogue Legacy, Dust, Dead Cells, Chasm, etc etc. The bar of quality has been raised, and I'm really worried this game is not only not living up to IGAvania expectations, but it might not even have a place in where the genre is right now.
It's so easy to read my rant of sorts and respond with "well they aren't done yet". But what have we seen or played that should be instilling me with confidence here? They've been working on this for yeeears and this is still all we have. Surely they are at the point where they would add, I dunno, actual level design. I pray that the devs see this and put extra effort into level and map design. We have enough weapons, I can deal with the visuals, and I don't care about the story. Please give us a memorable world to explore or you are gonna break my goddamn heart.
Also, please please pleeease don't throw my precious IGAvanias under the bus in an attempt to convince me that this game is "good enough". :(
