• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

Deleted member 431

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,675
So it is a coincidence then? Just like the Canadians that were swooped up by the Chinese?
Not a coincidence but it's part of a larger shift in how the west views China. Those Canadians were kidnapped and arrested as retaliation because the CCP often deals in hostage diplomacy and kangaroo courts. Just read about the Causeway Bay Books kidnappings.

For the record I am Canadian who has spent time in Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Japan. I am not American.
 

Squarehard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
25,836
They're both terrible.

If China pulled something like this on the US, I'd be just as happy.

Since they haven't, I'm just glad one of these two are getting effed.

Let me know once China gets their revenge on the US, and there's a thread on it, I'll be there just the same with the same stance.
 

Falcon511

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,148
The whataboutism in this thread is strong. Like the worst I've seen on this board.

Is Huawei really making tech to export to other nations that want a dictatorship or police state?
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
It's hard to tell if you're joking, but based on your previous comments, I assume you have some sort of complex centered around the US and are not joking:


I guess every post of yours need to insult Americans.


The Chinese government has strict laws and tariffs restricting foreign companies in China. They have laws restricting foreign citizens from running a business in China. They have absolutely no respect for international IP, outright ripping off companies and products across the world. They steal technology from other companies. Yet, despite this, the US bans a Chinese company with heavy links to the Chinese government and spying, and this sets you off on numerous rants about how terrible the US and its people are? Please.
I mean, it's only confirmed the moment an American president starts acting as the world's prime bully, no matter whether they are Democrat or Republican, because they are all the same, and everyone cheers.

Today it's Trump, and 10 years from now every bullshit liberal newspaper and pundit will be writing about how sad they felt when Trump undermined the world trade system and destroyed all the credibility of the US as a trade partner. Of course, now they are all cheering on. Before it was the Irak war, and the Gulf War, and countless other things.

It's not just China, the Trump administration has been throwing very high threats over upcoming European legislation that aims to boost and rationalize defense R&D, despite how massively protected and corrupt the US defense industry is.
 

Deleted member 19003

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,809
Poor US. It must not that be having elected an orange turned as president who is fucking with worldwide trade in every way he can, while every American cheers on, is a cause for concern.
Trump is a moron, and I don't agree or cheer for him at all. His antics do not make China look any better. He will be gone, hopefully sooner than later. But the PRC runs a literal police state to mass control their populace and kinaps journalists and dissidents. It's not equal, there's no whataboutism to equivocate the two.

I don't understand this rigid thinking. Trump = bad, therefore China = good or the same as the US????
 

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
And the kids and people in cages? And no it wasn't a comparison. It was asking for how you view these.

Of course they're awful. But the scale is completely incomparable. If you correctly consider Guantanamo and kids in cages to be a terrible injustice, what the Chinese government is doing with those camps should absolutely horrify you.
 

Deleted member 431

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,675
I mean, it's only confirmed the moment an American president starts acting as the world's prime bully, no matter whether they are Democrat or Republican, because they are all the same, and everyone cheers.

Today it's Trump, and 10 years from now every bullshit liberal newspaper and pundit will be writing about how sad they felt when Trump undermined the world trade system and destroyed all the credibility of the US as a trade partner. Of course, now they are all cheering on. Before it was the Irak war, and the Gulf War, and countless other things.

It's not just China, the Trump administration has been throwing very high threats over upcoming European legislation that aims to boost and rationalize defense R&D, despite how massively protected and corrupt the US defense industry is.
The pivot against the PRC happened with Obama, not Trump. That is what the TPP was about. You keep making this about Trump but it's not that simple. There is international, bi-partisan support for re-evaluating how the west views the PRC.
 

ethranes

A King's Landing
Member
Oct 27, 2017
613
Trump is like the Kardashian's, they've been around for so long that along the way, we forgot that they were a joke and started taking them seriously
 

Dekuman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,026
Trump Is an easy rhetorical deflection for the anti American types. It speaks to how weak the Chinese argument is and how awful their record is that even Trump is not enough to derail these threads.

Similarly accusations this is an America chest thumping thing rings rather hallow
 

Bliman

User Requested Ban
Banned
Jan 21, 2019
1,443
I just hope that both will change their ways. But I know it will not happen. It is a clash between powers. And the little (Europe) can only obey and watch.
It seems like the age of bullying has begun. And instead of the world getting better we are getting worse.
Instead of coming together we are getting better at ripping each other apart.
I wished we as the world could come together and make it better. These last years it has been getting worse and worse.
I don't want spying from someone. I want freedom for all the Chinese and Americans and that they can choose their way of living without someone getting harmed or hindered in their freedom.
What sad times.
 

Menx64

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,774
Putting companies on a blacklist? I know a country which is pretty good at creating such a list:

Social Websites and Apps
  • Facebook.com
  • Twitter.com
  • Instagram.com
  • Pinterest.com
  • Tumblr.com
  • Snapchat.com
  • Picasa.google.com
  • Flickr.com
  • plus.google.com
  • hangouts.google.com
  • Hootsuite.com
  • pscp.tv
  • xing.com
  • DeviantART.combadoo.com
  • plurk.com
  • twister.net.co
  • badoo.com
  • disqus.com
  • gab.ai
  • tinder.com

Blogging Websites and Platforms
  • Blogger.com
  • WordPress.com
  • fc2.com
  • urbansurvival.com

Emailing Services
  • google.com/gmail/

Search Engines
  • Google.com
  • DuckDuckGo.com
  • Baidu.com
  • Yahoo.com
  • startpage.com

Messaging Apps
  • messenger.com
  • slack.com
  • whatsapp.com
  • telegram.org
  • line.me/en/
  • kakaocorp.com/service/KakaoTalk
  • signal.org

Streaming Apps and Websites
  • youtube.com
  • netflix.com
  • vimeo.com
  • dailymotion.com
  • twitch.tv
  • pscp.tv
  • vevo.com
  • pandora.com
  • spotify.com
  • hulu.com
  • SoundCloud.com
  • hbo.com
  • playstation.com
  • fox.com
  • nbc.com
  • bet365.com/en/
  • eonline.com
  • epix.com
  • fxnetworks.com
  • syfy.com

News Websites
  • nytimes.com
  • bbc.com
  • ft.com/
  • wsj.com
  • bloomberg.com
  • reuters.com
  • independent.co.uk
  • lemonde.fr
  • lequipe.fr
  • news.google.com
  • theguardian.com
  • edition.cnn.com
  • liveleak.com
  • theepochtimes.com
  • businessinsider.com
  • sponichi.co.jp
  • nrk.no
  • yomiuri.co.jp

Cloud Storage, Information, and Sharing
  • wikipedia.org
  • wikileaks.org
  • google.com/drive
  • google.com/docs/
  • google.com/calendar
  • dropbox.com
  • shutterstock.com
  • slideshare.net
  • slack.com
  • istockphoto.com
  • archive.org/web/
  • scribd.com
  • thepiratebay.org
  • isohunt.com

Others
  • android.com
  • medium.com
  • linkedin.com
  • quora.com
  • github.com
  • T.co
  • rakuten.co.jp
  • amazon.co.jp
  • nicovideo.jp
  • ustream.tv
  • radioaustralia.net.au/chinese
  • boxun.com
  • lesoir.be
  • ntdtv.com
  • radio.garden
  • sonymusic.co.jp
  • allmovie.com
  • amnesty.org
  • radioaustralia.net.au/chinese
  • rsf.org
  • falundafa.org
  • minghui.org
  • livestation.com
  • cultureunplugged.com
  • twister.net.co
  • vpncoupons.com
  • thetibetpost.com
  • radiovncr.com
  • atc.org.au
  • tibet.net
  • mendeley.com
  • thecim.org
  • aba.org
  • jpl.nasa.gov
  • mega.nz
  • instafreebie.com
  • rfa.org
  • time.com
  • bigcommerce.com
  • sportkin.com
  • ndr.de
  • greatfire.org
  • gab.ai
  • pixiv.net
  • quozr.com
  • spiegel.de
  • agnesb.fr
  • gettyimages.com
  • flipboard.com
  • flitto.com
  • hoovers.com
  • kendatire.com
  • monster.com
  • thebodyshop-usa.com
  • download.cnet.com


Ban huawei from the USA completely, but leave the rest of the world make their own decisions.
I thought Google was not a tool of the government.
 

Bliman

User Requested Ban
Banned
Jan 21, 2019
1,443
Of course they're awful. But the scale is completely incomparable. If you correctly consider Guantanamo and kids in cages to be a terrible injustice, what the Chinese government is doing with those camps should absolutely horrify you.
It horrifies me. I want it all to stop. I want both to stop.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
Trump is a moron, and I don't agree or cheer for him at all. His antics do not make China look any better. He will be gone, hopefully sooner than later. But the PRC runs a literal police state to mass control their populace and kinaps journalists and dissidents. It's not equal, there's no whataboutism to equivocate the two.

I don't understand this rigid thinking. Trump = bad, therefore China = good or the same as the US????
Trump bad, equals Trump bad. Period.

There is no justification to embargo Chinese companies because you "suspect" they are actually government puppets trying to destroy us all. It's a company that operates in a dictatorship, like many others. No more, no less. It's certainly not going to help anyone in China if the US decides to obliterate Chinese companies. It doesn't take Galaxy Brain to figure that out.
The pivot against the PRC happened with Obama, not Trump. That is what the TPP was about. You keep making this about Trump but it's not that simple. There is international, bi-partisan support for re-evaluating how the west views the PRC.
That's why I say Americans think they are the world police.
 

xplatformer

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,890
Los Angeles
Anyone with half a brain already knows what's up. You can keep buying Huawei products, won't make a difference in the US.

Can anyone provide any reasons why I should support Huawei other than "Murica bad too" or is that the only real argument?






So you think that Google = United States Government and that any kind of blacklist of Chinese goods/services is unethical? So the Chinese in order to be ethical, also must unblock all of the American services and goods that are currently banned in China?


They make good products?
 

Bliman

User Requested Ban
Banned
Jan 21, 2019
1,443
Ban huawei from the USA completely, but leave the rest of the world make their own decisions.
I thought Google was not a tool of the government.
I agree completely with this. They are using their monopoly in a sector for their technological and trade wars. And they take other countries along with the ride.
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,125
Perma ban hauwei.


Under estimate your strength?

Perma ban and bans, then we get the rest of nato to not only follow up, but to remove all hauwei infrastructure.

Fuck off prc
 

BMW

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,703
Who would want to invest into a Chinese ecosystem lmao? As an American, there is no way in hell I am supporting the Chinese government's apparatus.
 

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
It horrifies me. I want it all to stop. I want both to stop.

You tried to equate them and you still refuse to recognize any difference in scale. Looking at the situation and doing this "both sides!" nonsense is the easiest way to make sure nothing changes. You need to triage or you'll just fail.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,466
This genius sentence is everything about this whole thing in a nutshell. Bravo!
Says the genius who equated the Trump administration's shitty stance on the environment to the enslavement of millions of Muslims. Here's how they're different - Americans can vote someone new in who does care about the environment. Let me know when the millions of imprisoned Muslims get a vote about their future. Both-sides bullshit you're spewing.
 

Deleted member 431

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,675
That's why I say Americans think they are the world police.
That's my point it isn't just the Americans. The PRC's neighbours despise the PRC more than the US ever will, parts of Africa aren't too keen on the PRC's attempts of Neo-colonialism, Canada is being bullied endlessly, and Europe too is tired of foreign companies being exploited by the PRC, their abuses of WTO rules, and bullying other small European nations like Norway.

If your issue is solely America, who would you prefer to take the lead on this? How should we deal with the PRC because the problem isn't going away anytime soon.
 

Deleted member 19003

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,809
The whataboutism in this thread is strong. Like the worst I've seen on this board.

Is Huawei really making tech to export to other nations that want a dictatorship or police state?

'It's like Christmas for repressive regimes': China is selling surveillance technology all over the world.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/day6/episo...lance-technology-all-over-the-world-1.4927185

Having perfected the art of state surveillance, she says China is now pushing its technology to like-minded governments around the world.

"It's like Christmas for repressive regimes," Richardson said. "This is a new line of business for Beijing."

According to a recent report from the Freedom House, 18 countries have imported artificial intelligence surveillance systems from China in the past year. Some of those countries — and others — have received training from China as well.

Those countries include Pakistan, Kenya, Iran and Zimbabwe. The report accuses China of "remaking the world in its techno-dystopian image."

In fact, Richardson says there's an eery similarity between Venezuela's newly rolled out Fatherland card and China's social credit system, which assigns point scores for citizens based on their behaviour.

Everyone should read this. It puts a lot of our discussion into frame.
 
Last edited:
Oct 27, 2017
7,466
They're both terrible.

If China pulled something like this on the US, I'd be just as happy.

Since they haven't, I'm just glad one of these two are getting effed.

Let me know once China gets their revenge on the US, and there's a thread on it, I'll be there just the same with the same stance.
Pulled something like what? Go look at the list of companies China has banned.
 

BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
Says the genius who equated the Trump administration's shitty stance on the environment to the enslavement of millions of Muslims. Here's how they're different - Americans can vote someone new in who does care about the environment. Let me know when the millions of imprisoned Muslims get a vote about their future. Both-sides bullshit you're spewing.

Chinese minorities are victims of terrible crimes, and I hope China develops a better understanding of human rights.

Governmental climate denial affects the entire world and kills and maims millions of people in the future if it goes on long enough. It's a crime of the highest order, only on a moral level right now. That you hand-wave it means you haven't thought about it enough. Or indeed deny the consequences yourself (surely not the science itself).
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,618
Spain
That's my point it isn't just the Americans. The PRC's neighbours despise the PRC more than the US ever will, parts of Africa aren't too keen on the PRC's attempts of Neo-colonialism, Canada is being bullied endlessly, and Europe too is tired of foreign companies being exploited by the PRC, their abuses of WTO rules, and bullying other small European nations like Norway.

If your issue is solely America, who would you prefer to take the lead on this? How should we deal with the PRC because the problem isn't going away anytime soon.
Well, you don't deal by unilaterally starting a huge trade war and disrupting the whole world's supply chain. There are many ways of averting the political influence of the PRC. This is certainly not the way, and it's not very effective.
We would follow Canada, and other Western nation's shortly after. We don't dictate what other countries do, but when China is blarring using hauwei products and infrastructure tospy on everyone and people pretend hauwei is not an arm of prc I laugh
Is there evidence of that? You need evidence, not suspicion or dislike of China. You could link evidence if it exists. I'd like to read it.
Made In but not Designed in.

Vietnam is celebrating right now as manufacturing is.moving there instead.
Lol.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,466
Chinese minorities are victims of terrible crimes, and I hope China develops a better understanding of human rights.

Governmental climate denial affects the entire world and kills and maims millions of people in the future if it goes on long enough. It's a crime of the highest order, only on a moral level right now. That you hand-wave it means you haven't thought about it enough. Or indeed deny the consequences yourself (surely not the science itself).
"I hope they develop a better understanding of human rights." Nice handwave again of religious re-education camps. If only someone would just teach the Chinese government that it's wrong to enslave millions!
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,125
Well, you don't deal by unilaterally starting a huge trade war and disrupting the whole world's supply chain. There are many ways of averting the political influence of the PRC. This is certainly not the way, and it's not very effective.

Is there evidence of that? You need evidence, not suspicion or dislike of China. You could link evidence if it exists. I'd like to read it.

Lol.

Everytime someone claims post evidence, then people do and you all dissapear only to pop up with the same fake defense force posts.

Fuck off and read. I'm done talking to shams like you
 

Bliman

User Requested Ban
Banned
Jan 21, 2019
1,443
You tried to equate them and you still refuse to recognize any difference in scale. Looking at the situation and doing this "both sides!" nonsense is the easiest way to make sure nothing changes. You need to triage or you'll just fail.
I don't refute that there is a massive difference in scale.
I still don't get why you have to triage. Why must one give up spying (not related to Huawei) and must be stifled, while the other one can just continue? Why not address both because it is about the same subject? I just don't like the power play and the hypocrisy. I want that they both acknowledge what they are doing no matter what the scale. Let's get rid of both.
 

Deleted member 36622

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 21, 2017
6,639
How do you know that China is spying more than the USA? What is your proof?

USA spies us europeans, it's all in Snowden documents, and it took 5 years for European Court of Human Rights to say that mass surveillance is bad, and the fact that we haven't seen real penalties for that is an issue.

While we still have no evidences that China is spying more than USA (even though Meng Wanzhou, daughter of Ren Zhengfei was arrested in Canada just few months ago for espionage, we don't know if that was true or not), we do know every chinese company must have a member of the communist party inside.

The main difference between USA and China is that one is our ally, the other is not, and how can you trust a non-democratic country? CCP can technically ask a chinese employee from one of our companies to send our data, and with Huawei, their networks and some of their suspicious projects, that's a real concern.

I like Huawei products, but Trump's decision is not that dumb (even though i do believe it's another one of those threats to grab a better deal from China), most american companies are not allowed to enter chinese market, why should you treat Huawei better?
 

Halbrand

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,615

giphy.gif
 

BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
Baidu is a mainland Chinese search engine that is just as government controlled as Huawei. So one would imagine they're not banned in China.
 
Nov 9, 2017
3,777
And why should the rest of Nato do what the US decides, exactly? How do you "get" us do do things?

Speaking of ironic, you say that the US wants to be the world police but I don't think any NATO countries actually spend on their own defense what is required in the treaty. A lot of Americans would be very happy if you guys started to invest in your own defense and rely less on the US military. Trump probably doesn't want you to though, since he would prefer to have a reason to pump all that money in the military.

I wonder how much NATO country economies would change if the US pulled out of NATO? Think Russia might get a little bit more ballsy, grabbing land back that they feel was stolen from them?
 

Bliman

User Requested Ban
Banned
Jan 21, 2019
1,443
USA spies us europeans, it's all in Snowden documents, and it took 5 years for European Court of Human Rights to say that mass surveillance is bad, and the fact that we haven't seen real penalties for that is an issue.

While we still have no evidences that China is spying more than USA (even though Meng Wanzhou, daughter of Ren Zhengfei was arrested in Canada just few months ago for espionage, we don't know if that was true or not), we do know every chinese company must have a member of the communist party inside.

The main difference between USA and China is that one is our ally, the other is not, and how can you trust a non-democratic country? CCP can technically ask a chinese employee from one of our companies to send our data, and with Huawei, their networks and some of their suspicious projects, that's a real concern.

I like Huawei products, but Trump's decision is not that dumb (even though i do believe it's another one of those threats to grab a better deal from China), most american companies are not allowed to enter chinese market, why should you treat Huawei better?
I always thought that America was our ally. But Trump has been threatening and treating Europe bad for a couple of years now. And if push comes to shove I don't know which side America would choose.
 

KHarvey16

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,193
I don't refute that there is a massive difference in scale.
I still don't get why you have to triage. Why must one give up spying (not related to Huawei) and must be stifled, while the other one can just continue? Why not address both because it is about the same subject? I just don't like the power play and the hypocrisy. I want that they both acknowledge what they are doing no matter what the scale. Let's get rid of both.

One spies in a more limited capacity in a context where the population has some form of recourse in addressing abuse. If it's revealed it can be addressed. We've seen this in the US. And citizens actually have a justice system to fight individual consequences of abuse.

China has no such infrastructure. The system of government doesn't allow it. There is no recourse for the people in camps. The consequences of what is a much, much more extensive spying apparatus are far greater in scope and there's no fighting back.

"Spying = spying, no further analysis necessary" is lazy.
 

BabyMurloc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,890
Speaking of ironic, you say that the US wants to be the world police but I don't think any NATO countries actually spend on their own defense what is required in the treaty. A lot of Americans would be very happy if you guys started to invest in your own defense and rely less on the US military. Trump probably doesn't want you to though, since he would prefer to have a reason to pump all that money in the military.

I wonder how much NATO country economies would change if the US pulled out of NATO? Think Russia might get a little bit more ballsy, grabbing land back that they feel was stolen from them?

Complaining about NATO defense budgets and threatening to pull out is actually one for one what Trump has done. Why do Trump's arguments get more and more traction on this board? Was he ahead of his time, a misunderstood genius?