‘Unskippable gameplay’ is the new ‘unskippable cutscenes’

[dock]

What is the value in gating mechanisms that cause people to stop playing the game forever?

So many games are now much more than a skill test, but even with older games you would see strange driving or boss or puzzle sections that are simply miserable for some players.

Let's assume the game has a checklist for content that was passed with or without gameplay.

- How would you feel if all games had a 'autopilot' mode which allowed the game to play itself for a while?

- Is it better that players see no more of the game because of small pockets of content that they hate playing? Is skipping content so bad?

Speaking as a game designer, I'm currently trying to decide how best to balance challenge with players dropping the game forever.

 

[Deleted member 15428]

- How would you feel if all games had a 'autopilot' mode which allowed the game to play itself for a while?

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Games should already have this

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

I don't understand what you're saying. Can you give an example? It sounds like you're saying everything in games should be optional, which is something I certainly don't agree with.

 

[Jobbs]

I don't think all games should have autopilot mode. I have no argument with some games having it, but some games are intended to present a challenge that must be conquered. It's up to the designer to decide what kind of game they want to make, and it's up to players to decide if they want to have that experience or not by choosing to play that game. I don't feel as though I'm entitled to experience everything in every game without any effort. That would be rather foolish.

Incidentally, if you just want to watch a game be played, there are options for that and they're 100% free

 

[Deleted member 9971]

Horrible stealh sections and walk parts should be skippable imo. Wont ever replay spiderman cuz of those horrid stealth actions for example.

 

[Tribes of Trusty]

- How would you feel if all games had a 'autopilot' mode which allowed the game to play itself for a while?

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Wasn't there a Nintendo patent just like this ?

- Is it better that players see no more of the game because of small pockets of content that they hate playing? Is skipping content so bad?

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I think being able to skip / select the gameplay phases I want to replay is good. Just like I want to watch some movie scenes again or read certain of my favourite chapters in books.

I don't think being able to do this in the first playthrough would be beneficial to the experience

 

[Vulcano's Assistant]

I don't understand what you're saying. Can you give an example? It sounds like you're saying everything in games should be optional, which is something I certainly don't agree with.

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Stealth sections in non-stealth games and Hacking minigames

 

[Kissenkopf]

Where is the fun if you can skip a part of the game? Nothing can replace the feeling of finally finishing a game part what seemed impossible for a long time.
There is nothing bad about being stuck on a game part and if your attention span is so short that you quit forever the game than its your own fault.
And no, not having enough time is no excuse. If you decide to play a game finish it or don't but don't blame the game or its design for your own decisions.

 

[Rover]

Design a better game instead

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

Stealth sections in non-stealth games

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I mean, that's not something that should be skippable. That's something that shouldn't be there in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 38050]

All games with horribly long "walk and talk" segments should let you skip those, imo.

 

[Neil Howarth]

Have a chapter system like DVD's have. Alone in the Dark did this, allowed you to skip chapters and move on to the next.

 

[psilocybe]

Allowing the player to enable a god mode would solve most of the problems. Including forced stealth, since the player could brute force the scene.

As for puzzles, enabling tips is one option many games already do. If not and I'm stuck, I go straight to YouTube if the challenge stops being fun.

 

[Atolm]

If they're skipping specific parts of the content, the problem is that content, not having or not an autopilot.

 

[Striferser]

I could do without the space harrier segment in bayonetta, but that mostly because that part is just behind the best boss fight in the game...

 

[Deleted member 15240]

I absolutely agree. This was essentially an option with most PC games I played as a kid because of console commands. For example, I wouldn't have played Jedi Knight nearly as much as a kid if I hadn't been able to skip the hard parts using god mode or no clip. The same goes for cheats in console games like GTA San Andreas. I ended up completing both games normally but the existence of those commands and cheats definitely helped me enjoy them back when I wasn't good enough to complete them straight up. I think they should be standard for all (offline obviously) games

 

[Lord Azrael]

I think it would be beneficial. There have definitely been times in games where I've encountered some dumb minigame or something that were halting progression that just had absolutely nothing to do with the core mechanics. Or even if a roadblock does relate to the main mechanics, if there's like a boss that's way too hard for someone and preventing them from seeing other stuff they would enjoy, I don't see the harm in letting them skip it.

 

[Jobbs]

All games with horribly long "walk and talk" segments should let you skip those, imo.

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This was my immediate thought before fully understanding what the thread was going to be about.

God Of War has some fun action, but holy shit is that game tedious to get through because of all the pointless filler parts. Hard enough to get through once, and all the forced walking and talking makes the game 100% unreplayable

 

[Beje]

All minigames and "alternative gameplay" sections should be completely skippable IMHO. For example, in the indie adventure game Fran Bow there are small sections with minigames or platforming levels between chapters that add some flavour but are totally optional and you can just skip them if you want with the only penalty of not getting an achievement IIRC.

 

[Strings]

I don't understand what you're saying. Can you give an example? It sounds like you're saying everything in games should be optional, which is something I certainly don't agree with.

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You have folks who really hate sections in games where they're walking and have a character delivering dialogue in lieu of a cutscene, and other similar stuff.

I personally don't have a problem with it, as long as it's paced reasonably. I do have a problem with folks who are categorically against it as a concept, regardless of execution, just like I have a problem with the militant 'anti-cutscene' people, etc.

 

[Chivalry]

I'd like it, at least as an option after some retries.

 

[TheMoon]

Autopilot and skipping content is missing the entire point, imo. Give players tools to (temporarily) empower them to progress through the roadblock. Don't "take the wheel" because they can't do it. We have great examples for these things already. Staggered hint systems for puzzles, parameter alterations for reflex based games (Celeste), or also simply optional pick-ups/items that have been in games since the beginning.

Be conscious of the language you use. Don't call things "Cheat Mode" or "Baby mode" or something patronizing, weighed down by negative connotations.

 

[Red Devil]

You mean something like this?

Cuz Dawn of Sorrow would be better without this crap.

 

[Dusk Golem]

Funnily enough there was a feature like this in Alone in the Dark 5, and was a controversial game design aspect back in the day.

Anyways, my thought process is it could add some to certain projects, but I don't think it should be mandatory to all projects. Right now I'm all up into Pathologic 2's business, and that's a game that's deliberately about making the player suffer and isn't a game for everyone as it doesn't attempt to be traditionally "fun", or use game design that's convenient for the player in many cases. That is a game that absolutely would lose it's creative vision from a scene skip mode, especially as the other big part of the game is barely surviving/suffering, and making hard choices in a harsh climate where you have to get by however you can to make it to see the next day (in a 12 day story).

 

[Executive Taxi]

A lot of F2P grindy MMOs have an auto play feature interestingly enough...

 

[Gelf]

I came in expecting this thread to be about skipping slow walk and talk sections or mash X to do a minor interaction sequences. A play itself mode isn't what I need, I want a get me past this barely interactive segment to the part where I actually have more control function.

 

[Garth2000]

If it's just based on challenge or difficulty, then what about something like Nintendo implemented in the Mario games? The game detects if you are struggling and offered an optional powerup to help pass the level and see more of the game.

It would be interesting to see if this would be game breaking in other types of game. For example, if you keep getting caught in a stealth section of a game, you have the option to render the enemies deaf or Alam's ineffective

 

[Majukun]

to me it's like saying that every movie should come with a written recap for people that don't actually want to see the movie.

also,just bring back cheat codes instead of autopilot.

 

[Deleted member 38050]

This was my immediate thought before fully understanding what the thread was going to be about.

God Of War has some fun action, but holy shit is that game tedious to get through because of all the pointless filler parts. Hard enough to get through once, and all the forced walking and talking makes the game 100% unreplayable

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Yup, and God of War was the game on my mind when I typed that. I've thought about re-playing it to go for the platinum but I just can't bring myself to do it because of all that stuff.

I mean, that's not something that should be skippable. That's something that shouldn't be there in the first place.

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You guys are talking about Spider-Man, right?
Because whoever decided we needed those MJ/Miles sections really needs a kick up the ass

 

[Vulcano's Assistant]

I mean, that's not something that should be skippable. That's something that shouldn't be there in the first place.

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Let's just say circumvent them rather than skipping them. I feel the really bad stealth sections are the ones that simply give you a game over screen when you are spotted. The game should give you the option to keep going.

 

[Fitts]

The best game you can make is the one you want to, OP. Don't compromise your vision for a handful of whiners or you could be taking something uniquely great and making it homogenized/mediocre.

But no. Gameplay should never be skippable because that's the whole point of games.

 

[Beje]

If it's just based on challenge or difficulty, then what about something like Nintendo implemented in the Mario games? The game detects if you are struggling and offered an optional powerup to help pass the level and see more of the game.

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I always found this a very elegant solution, same as The World Ends With You that lets you adjust difficulty and level scaling on the fly depending on what you're up to: getting through the story or grinding for rare items. Didn't the game also suggest you to lower the difficulty level if it sees you're struggling with a particular boss?

 

[mxbison]

I mean, that's not something that should be skippable. That's something that shouldn't be there in the first place.

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Stealth in Uncharted is great, the problem is games with silly fail states when you get spotted. If you blow your cover you should atleast have a chance to fight through it.

Why is stealth in non-stealth games more unforgiving than Hitman, Metal Gear Solid, etc.?

 

[TheEchosOfTheCyborg]

I'm confused, are we talking about 1. mechanics or gameplay that is locked but needless high requirements that they aren't worth using, don't get introduced till way late in the game that most people won't use them or like a spell too good to ever use (which Dead Cells were praised for not doing)?

Or 2. Bad gameplay sections that you wish you could skip like bad stealth sections or the infamous race bit in the original Mafia?

 

[Vulcano's Assistant]

An extreme example of games that let you skip gameplay are strategy games with a combination of a gran strategy overworld and RTS maps that let you decide battles based on the units you send without having to go through the real RTS encounters yourself.

 

[Vitamin_B_Complex]

I don't like the idea that a little bit of inconvenience is a deal breaker. If you drop a game that you like because there is a section that you don't like, what's even the point, there are barely any games that are awesome to everyone from the start to the end.
The first Dark Souls was awesome because it inconvenienced the player compared to other games.

I'm not necessarily against the idea of skippable gameplay and I won't fight against it or something, I just dislike this attitude of everything must be perfect all the time so that every nano second is the best possible when in reality a flawed experience (Dark Souls) can be a lot more fulfilling than something that has been polished to a sheen. For example, there are movies where I hated big chunks of it but at the end, or at some point, it felt worth it because the entirety of it came together. The Last Guardian was frustrating at some parts, more than I can stand, but at the end, seeing the ending made everything worth it. But having a fast forward button kinda takes away from that when you can just scroll to the good parts and not experience the lows as well.

If I had skipped every boss that I didn't enjoy in Sekiro I probably would've skipped 60% of them plus ALL the minibosses. But I was glad that I pushed through because at the last boss the gameplay finally clicked and I started enjoying and appreciating it.

 

[test_account]

This was my immediate thought before fully understanding what the thread was going to be about.

God Of War has some fun action, but holy shit is that game tedious to get through because of all the pointless filler parts. Hard enough to get through once, and all the forced walking and talking makes the game 100% unreplayable

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If they didnt have that, the story and storytelling would likely be much weaker. It would also go against their vision of "no camera cuts". I can see it being boring for speedruns and 2nd playthroughs though.

 

[Jobbs]

If they didnt have that, the story and storytelling would likely be much weaker. It would also go against their vision of "no camera cuts". I can see it being boring for speedruns and 2nd playthroughs though.

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Yeah, and it's not for me. I barely got through the game once and I was exhausted by the end. I would have enjoyed it a lot more with far less talking/puzzles/filler, but I'm not going to tell people they're wrong if they do like those things. I just accept not everything is for me and don't expect every game to be tailored to my every whim. Furthermore, when games do push back a bit and put me outside of my comfort zone sometimes my point of view and preferences expand based on that. I don't necessarily think every game should just obey your every impulse, because for all that would be gained, a lot more is potentially lost

 

[IDreamOfHime]

The worst thing is the combination of both. Where the game won't let you do anything except walk very slowly and throw exposition at you. I'm positive a about a 3rd of Days Gone is just this...or at least it feels that way.

 

[Laser Man]

You can't account for all possible situations a player might disengage from your game, you might actually create that situation yourself by trying that.

You have to have confidence in some of what you are trying to do and make the best you can with that, thinking that you can net players that fall through your gameplay with your equally good story and giving them a gameplay skip button... won't work. You'd have to exclude all story from gameplay so that those people don't get confused, which could work mechanically but you'd have to convince people that your game would be worth it like that... a hard sell!
The other way works, not because people hate story, most people don't skip cutscenes the first time they are playing the game but it has a function beyond that, beyond personal preference.

In theory an optional AI that turns your game into your own let's play might work, not sure we are there yet with machine learning.

 

[Hark]

If I could skip segments like limping through the start of Destiny 2 I would 100% do it.

I get that they're trying to communicate that we're struggling and make us take it in, but fuck off. Let me shoot stuff.

 

[julia crawford]

I don't think "auto-playing" would be a good solution, but games should have accessibility options that the player can use to change what gameplay aspects they are in charge at any one time. Like, AI taking over shooting or healing, turning off aggro, that kind of stuff. That way the system that allows for less challenge is itself customizable by the player.

 

[Yata]

That sounds stupid. If you respect videogames as an art medium, respect the developer's intent and efforts.

 

[Rodjer]

- How would you feel if all games had a 'autopilot' mode which allowed the game to play itself for a while?

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I can aswell stop playing videogames then

 

[PrimeBeef]

All I remember is huge amounts of ridicule given to Nintendo with its autopilot mode that started with the NSMB series.

I get that some people don't like stealth sections in non stealth game, as an example. The option to skip sections just because you don't like the mechanics or content seems silly to me. If there is a unconventional gameplay section, then the dev should make it easy so those not accustomed to that style can clear it if the fear is players not being able to progress. Or not bother putting in shit like that.

If it's something like those walking talking dialogue non cutscene cutscenes, then they should be skippable just like all cutscenes should. Maybe add a summary feature like some mobile games do when you skip. That way you can still get the idea of what happened.

If puzzles that are too tough stop progression a tip system that pops up after a predetermined amount of failed attempts that get you closer to the solution if you keep failing.

Automatic or on the fly difficulty changes. If a player keeps failing something due to skill, then the game could lower the difficulty after so many attempts, or being able to lower the difficulty without having to start a fresh game/chapter would be nice.

Frankly, if a game allows someone to skip playing the game, then what is the point. Make it an interactive novel or just make a movie. The point of games is to play them. If a player wants to give up or skip something, that is on the game itself.

 

[KillLaCam]

Maybe have auto pilot available during those on rail slow walking and talking sections. There no reason to force us to hold forward during sections like that

But definitely shouldn't be any "skip this section" stuff unless it's something like "No Russian" that could be too offensive to some people.

Not really any point in buying a game to have it play itself. Might as well just watch a movie or something instead

 

[PrimeBeef]

That sounds stupid. If you respect videogames as an art medium, respect the developer's intent and efforts.

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Couldn't care less about it being an art. I do respect the devs intent. Which is why, although I'm in favor of difficulty options, I respect the souls type games for being what they are. The dev says learn how to play, learn to fights or fuck off. Not every game has to be geared towards everyone.

 

[NotLiquid]

Forced walking sections need to die. I don't care if you're doing a narrative driven title, find some different way to do it.

 

[dock]

If it's just based on challenge or difficulty, then what about something like Nintendo implemented in the Mario games? The game detects if you are struggling and offered an optional powerup to help pass the level and see more of the game.

It would be interesting to see if this would be game breaking in other types of game. For example, if you keep getting caught in a stealth section of a game, you have the option to render the enemies deaf or Alam's ineffective

Click to shrink...

Items to get rid of the fail states are usually the best option. I totally agree.

However, some sections of games are simply protracted and would be better reducing in time dramatically. I'd rather see a 1 minute cutscene than any of the combat in Naughty Dog games or tomb raider, and I completed all of those.

 

[Blackbird]

Have you guys ever heard about YouTube?