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Gifmaker

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
964
I think a good example of what OP may be referring to might be the Assassin's Creed games. Like in III and IV, I absolutely digged those games, but boy did I hate the obligatory current time sections. I get it, there's an overarching story that those tie into, but goddammit, I played Black Flag because of ships and piratry, I never cared for the Animus stuff. If I had been able to skip these segments, oh boy would I have made use of that. A lot.

So, I think if it is rare occurances like this, skipping stuff can actually be beneficial.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,169
Wakayama
If you don't enjoy the gameplay why not just watch a let's play?

I know you weren't responding to me but I'd like to address this question specifically as there's a number of reasons "Just watch a Let's Play" isn't a viable option (at least for me)

1) Most Let's Players spend more time commenting than playing, which is annoying.
2) Some Let's Players are just annoying in general.
3) Some Let's Players play too slowly for my liking (spend way too long in areas when I'm ready for them to get a move on).
4) Opposite of 3), some move way too quickly for my liking (not spending enough time in an area I'm interested in).
5) Some Let's Plays outright skip parts via jump cuts.
6) Some Let's Players add unnecessary effects like zoom ins (Let's zoom in on this face I think is funny and make the overlay red or whatever) in an attempt to be "funny".
7) Some Let's Players are the 100% completion type who must do every last side-quest before getting on with the finale.
8) Some Let's Players put fucking spoilers in their thumbnails before you even click on the damn video.

I'm sure other people might have other reasons as well but this isn't a solution really. :/
 

Rover

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,414
But here's the thing: If they gave an option to skip that fight, it would still be a trash fight. Players wouldn't think "wow, that was fun! Loved that boss!" after skipping it, they would think "holy shit that was garbage, skipped". You don't want players thinking your content is garbage, and adding an option to skip won't change anyone's minds about that.

My thoughts exactly, and this is something I think about games like AC Odyssey that openly try to sell you options to "play at your own pace" (in other words, skip the bullshit), and somehow they aren't ashamed to market this idea to the player that their game isn't fun and you need to buy the option to make it tolerable. Buying those boosters doesn't convince me the game is fun, just a deliberate pain in the ass.
 

Aostia82

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,366
Nintendo wii super guide was top tier
Alone in the dark optional chapter selection was awful
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,014
UK
I know you weren't responding to me but I'd like to address this question specifically as there's a number of reasons "Just watch a Let's Play" isn't a viable option (at least for me)

1) Most Let's Players spend more time commenting than playing, which is annoying.
2) Some Let's Players are just annoying in general.
3) Some Let's Players play too slowly for my liking (spend way too long in areas when I'm ready for them to get a move on).
4) Opposite of 3), some move way too quickly for my liking (not spending enough time in an area I'm interested in).
5) Some Let's Plays outright skip parts via jump cuts.
6) Some Let's Players add unnecessary effects like zoom ins (Let's zoom in on this face I think is funny and make the overlay red or whatever) in an attempt to be "funny".
7) Some Let's Players are the 100% completion type who must do every last side-quest before getting on with the finale.
8) Some Let's Players put fucking spoilers in their thumbnails before you even click on the damn video.

I'm sure other people might have other reasons as well but this isn't a solution really. :/

Yeah those are valid points, but I think "adding a skip button to every game" goes too far in the other direction

I like books, and I like films, I'm sure you do as well, but you accept right now that not all novels and not all films will be for you, some of them you just won't enjoy, and in many cases you know in advance you probably won't enjoy them

This doesn't mean we look for a way of making them enjoyable to us, we just watch or read something else, and it should be no different with games

Some games are designed to push a story first, some gameplay, some are designed to be a journey the player goes on, some simulate a world to be immersed in, others are designed so players can gain mastery so they can log high scores, some are designed for completion among players etc

Games have so many goals, and they're designed in so many different ways, that a universal "skip content" button would undermine a lot of what makes these games good at what they do

If pacing or teaching the player mechanics over time is a core part of the game, and a player skips any of the game, well now they've fucked up the learning curve of the game, which means they'll get stuck more, skip more, and have an overall worse impression of the game
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,494
I loved Spiderman for let me skip the puzzle parts. Every game should have it, I would just look the solution online anyway.
 

Arion

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,807
Ya, I would love to see this type of option for games with really laborious sections. Bayonetta jumps to mind with that awful shoot 'em up section. But adding options like that is also an open admission that they made undesirable sections in their game. This video remains as relevant as ever.

 
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
My thoughts exactly, and this is something I think about games like AC Odyssey that openly try to sell you options to "play at your own pace" (in other words, skip the bullshit), and somehow they aren't ashamed to market this idea to the player that their game isn't fun and you need to buy the option to make it tolerable. Buying those boosters doesn't convince me the game is fun, just a deliberate pain in the ass.
True, I feel similarly.

Fans of the game swear it isn't necessary, and the content is good, but to me the messaging by the publisher is clearly "you don't have to bother with that, if you buy this you can get to the good parts quickly."

It's possible that I would disagree, much like fans clearly do, and would end up loving the side content, but I'm not dying to find out. This kind of stuff turns me off from a game.

Still don't mind it existing (though charging money for it is kind of shitty), it just makes the game less appealing to me.
 

Valkerion

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,229
This is why I play PC when I can, trainers alleviate a lot of bs time sink moments in games. Especially in a second play through or revisiting an old classic. Ohhh boy.

Thats also why I was so happy SE put options for boosters and what not in the recent FF re-releases. More games need these, and not paid ones.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,169
Wakayama
Yeah those are valid points, but I think "adding a skip button to every game" goes too far in the other direction

I like books, and I like films, I'm sure you do as well, but you accept right now that not all novels and not all films will be for you, some of them you just won't enjoy, and in many cases you know in advance you probably won't enjoy them

This doesn't mean we look for a way of making them enjoyable to us, we just watch or read something else, and it should be no different with games

Some games are designed to push a story first, some gameplay, some are designed to be a journey the player goes on, some simulate a world to be immersed in, others are designed so players can gain mastery so they can log high scores, some are designed for completion among players etc

Games have so many goals, and they're designed in so many different ways, that a universal "skip content" button would undermine a lot of what makes these games good at what they do

If pacing or teaching the player mechanics over time is a core part of the game, and a player skips any of the game, well now they've fucked up the learning curve of the game, which means they'll get stuck more, skip more, and have an overall worse impression of the game

While all of this is true, it has been pointed out that in Movies and Books it's super easy to simply skip or fast-forward or flip past parts you don't care about. I do this all the time with movies; I'll watch it through the first time, and then on some subsequent watches I'll just watch the parts I enjoyed to save time. Same for books.
 

Karlinel

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Nov 10, 2017
7,826
Mallorca, Spain
Where is the fun if you can skip a part of the game? Nothing can replace the feeling of finally finishing a game part what seemed impossible for a long time.
There is nothing bad about being stuck on a game part and if your attention span is so short that you quit forever the game than its your own fault.
And no, not having enough time is no excuse. If you decide to play a game finish it or don't but don't blame the game or its design for your own decisions.
I'm gonna assume most designers would rather comply even a tiny bit with "time or skill challenged" users, instead of selling jack because they market it as for the ultra hardcore.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,014
UK
While all of this is true, it has been pointed out that in Movies and Books it's super easy to simply skip or fast-forward or flip past parts you don't care about. I do this all the time with movies; I'll watch it through the first time, and then on some subsequent watches I'll just watch the parts I enjoyed to save time. Same for books.

Well a lot of games have level select screens after you beat the game too, and older games had unlockable cheats that essentially allowed you to either skips parts of the game or remove all the challenge
 

Yata

Member
Feb 1, 2019
2,960
Spain
While all of this is true, it has been pointed out that in Movies and Books it's super easy to simply skip or fast-forward or flip past parts you don't care about. I do this all the time with movies; I'll watch it through the first time, and then on some subsequent watches I'll just watch the parts I enjoyed to save time. Same for books.

Important detail.
 

Zedark

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,719
The Netherlands
What is the value in gating mechanisms that cause people to stop playing the game forever?

So many games are now much more than a skill test, but even with older games you would see strange driving or boss or puzzle sections that are simply miserable for some players.

Let's assume the game has a checklist for content that was passed with or without gameplay.

- How would you feel if all games had a 'autopilot' mode which allowed the game to play itself for a while?

- Is it better that players see no more of the game because of small pockets of content that they hate playing? Is skipping content so bad?

Speaking as a game designer, I'm currently trying to decide how best to balance challenge with players dropping the game forever.

I definitely don't think you're wrong on a fundamental level for sure, but I think some things should be highlighted about your post that make for important case distinctions. First of all, I want to say that I feel that for many players, getting past unexpected and challenging battles or puzzles is a very important part of what makes gaming so interesting: they get to do something that is conceptually hard but fun on a moment-to-moment basis. As a result, I think it is important to recognise that some people may find those sections you describe as "miserable for some" to be the main attraction of a game.

Considering the above, you inevitably get back to a skill discussion, since there is a fine line between challenging and insurmountable, and that line is defined by an individual's perspective, not by a general consideration of difficulty. I will write something on my perspective on difficulty levels at the end of my post, but first I will get to the points of discussion you posited in your post (these are the thoughts of a humble gamer, but I hope you can make sense and use some of what I wrote for your deliberations on this topic):

Assuming you forgo the responsibility to design a combat-puzzle system that allows you to tweak the difficulty to a level that fits most, if not all, of your players (this is a bit crudely put, I admit, but I put it this way because I think you can develop a set of very good difficulty options that solve most of the problems you describe), I would say that the worst thing that could happen is that people end up in a situation where they are enjoying the narrative but are unable to progress because Boss mcBossy seems unbeatable to them. If this is something you anticipate despite suitable accommodations in your mind for different skill levels (maybe your mission design loses its appeal if you drop the difficulty level to accommodate for less skilled players - like when your platformer only has very simple levels), then I feel an autoplay feature is a good idea, but I would make it a dynamic one: if possible, give players the option to jump right back in at any stage when they feel comfortable they can finish it (or after they have learned from the AI how to counter certain enemy moves). However, this sounds like a hell to implement: not only should your AI be able to defeat bosses, but it should also be able to do so with normal gameplay tactics. The major problem (having your AI beat the boss in a normal way) remains when you make the autoplay non-interruptible. An option to skip bosses is another possibility. This does presume that your game does not include story elements within said boss battles, since the goal is to make the narrative accessible. But if you don't have that, then this is the easiest way to allow people to follow the narrative (and play whichever parts they feel they are able to beat) without getting stuck.

It is my belief that most games can and should be for everyone, but I also believe that this can almost always be achieved by including suitable difficulty levels.

Discussion on difficulty levels:

In order to manage difficulty for different players, I would advocate well-designed difficulty levels: for those who are not quite as gifted at playing games, beating those challenging bosses you've designed may be too much, and they leave as a result. However, if they drop down to a slightly more 'manageable' difficulty, then they might be able to clear it. Of course, the way in which you handle different difficulty settings can help you to get the player to achieve certain goals in terms of skills. You might want to have the player achieve certain skill thresholds because you believe an important part of the fun in your game is to learn certain skills, like performing certain combos or learning when to dodge and when to go all-in for massive damage, and you believe that the player needs to have mastered a certain minimum level of proficiency before they can move on to the next stage in your game where you are planning on introducing more advanced skills, or plan to present bosses/enemies with ever more unforgiving combinations of moves and levels of power.

Let's use Bloodborne as an example, since the sub-genre it is frequently assigned to has had some controversy surrounding difficulty levels. There would be a number of different options to drop Bloodborne's difficulty level:
- Firstly, you could drop the enemies' stats: make them do less damage, or take their health down so that they are easier to defeat;
- Secondly, you could change the enemies' moveset, limiting them to a more basic set of moves that are easier for the player to read and counter.

In my humble opinion, the first one is the best way to go: it requires the player to learn (and learn to counter) the whole range of moves, since none have been removed from their moveset. This means that a player cannot get by with just learning a subset of the skills you intended them to learn on the 'Normal' difficulty setting. As a result, you still demand of your players to learn the full set of skills. The difference with normal difficulty is that you give them more leeway: they can take more hits before they die, and therefore they do not need to master those skills to the level required to beat the normal difficulty. However, they can't get by with ignoring certain skills altogether, because the enemies will then overpower them with the use of the move that they didn't bother to learn. In short, a simple drop of stats will keep your combat system intact on multiple difficulties, whereas a drop in previously assumed basic skills (for normal difficulty) will mean you have to reassess whether your combat system remains entertaining across difficulty levels (if we take out all the 2-or-more-fold attacks from Bloodborne, for example, then the player only needs to take care of dodging one attack for each lunge the enemy might do, which will make the combat system fairly trivial and take out the essence of what made Bloodborne such an interesting game of chess -- just imagine the battle with Father Cascoigne when he only tries to land one hit at a time!).

The above example is, of course, a bit too limiting: what about more advanced moves? In Super Mario Odyssey, for example, if they had at some point required the player to master the Jump-Throw Hat-Dive-Jump-Dive routine, which might have been too difficult for a decent subset of players, then would it be fair to include a difficulty setting where an extra platform is added to make it sufficient to perform a Jump-Throw Hat-Dive-Jump routine, instead? I think it would be: it still requires the player to apply, under time restrictions, a combination of 3 different inputs (the last jump is automatic if the first three actions are performed in a timely manner) that each are very basic commands but combine into a somewhat more advanced move.

In addition, you should consider how the dropping of stats could impact the necessity to use certain skills. For example, if in a turn-based battle system you had a move that killed all of the player's characters if the player didn't use mechanics that protected their characters, and you now lower the damage done by that move such that it no longer kills all characters, then you have freed the player of the responsibility to prepare for that killer attack, effectively taking away a layer of tactics required for that battle. As such, the removal of mechanics and the lowering of stats are not wholly unrelated, and you should think about which skills you really want your player to be able to produce and how that impacts your options for lowering stats. Additionally, you can actually use this fact to free players of the requirement of displaying more advanced tactics by lowering stats to a sufficient degree. In my eyes, this should actually be a really fun puzzle for game designers to tinker with!

Another problem I see with the Bloodbornian gameplay design is the checkpoint system: it is regarded by some as a skill to learn how to retrace your steps after a death, but for others, it is considered a repetition of actions that you cannot do blindly due to the difficulty, but neither is it very illuminating in terms of learning new skills. I see the option here (again) being a setting for the number of checkpoints you implement in your game: for people who want to retrace their steps and find ways of optimising their return to a former part of the game, the option is there, and for those who don't want to retrace their steps, the option is there to increase the number of checkpoints. Maybe you can make sparse checkpoints the standard and instruct players about the option to increase them? That to me seems like the best option, since it keeps the intended (I'm assuming) scarcity of checkpoints but allows for a less repetitive gameplay loop for those who experience it as such.

Now, let's think about puzzles. In my eyes, Uncharted 4 brought some good ideas to the table, although it did not implement it very well. What UC4 did was have your companions give hints for solving the puzzle if you did not manage to proceed to a next stage of the puzzle after some time. However, this has two problems: firstly, people might not want to wait the time you have assigned before hints start coming in, and secondly, people might not want to automatically have a stage of the puzzle spoiled just because they take a bit longer to find the solution. In my eyes, then, the solution is to make hints optional: if you can turn them off completely, then you have all the time you want to solve it on your own. However, that would, in turn, integrate the gameplay with the options menu, since you would need to toggle this option if you can't find the solution on your own. The precise solution imo is quite hard, but I think either a button on the controller dedicated to asking for a hint could work, or maybe you could have your character use a journal with pages that you normally wouldn't access, but that can then provide hints when player try to review a situation. I would envision this as a bit of a notebook where in-game character writes their thoughts above certain situations, and in those descriptions they can intertwine some hints to solving the puzzle (maybe you can dynamically update the notebook as you solve parts of the puzzle, such that fresh hints are always available).

Clearly, optimising for difficulty is a very involved and intertwined process, so it will probably a good deal of work to figure out the best configuration of difficulty options for your game. Good luck!
 

Epinephrine

Member
Oct 27, 2017
842
North Carolina
Fully disagree. Not everything has to accommodate everyone. You are asking that developers compromise how they want people to experience their product. If they want to include such a feature, fine. If they don't, that's cool too.
 

Narroo

Banned
Feb 27, 2018
1,819
'It was easy for me' is always a dangerous way to look at games, as they ignore so many factors such as familiarity with systems from previous games. Even the type of controller makes a big difference, but disability isn't the only reason to be poor at intense pattern dodging.

Where was the free health grind option for me? One of my mistakes was probably trying a pacifist run first time, because keen fans talked about this being the best way to play.

In terms of difficulty, I've completed Bloodborne without almost any summoning, but I followed a text guide from vg247 which helped me. I'm not great at games but I understand some games are tricky.
I understand that "It was easy for me" is a bit dangerous, but it's also true that some games are definitely more difficult than others.

The Pacifist Run is meant to be challenging, but not overly so. It's actually how the game was designed to be played. Yes, you can grind out cash in Pacifist mode; there's a few ways, and they mostly become available after the running section in the swamp. I believe the Snowman will also give you healing items as well....though my memory is a bit fuzzy. Also, use a controller if you're not already.

I'm not sure how one can beat bloodborne and not be able to deal with Undertale, unless using a guide really breaks the game.

Anyways, I can tell you that skipping the combat of Undertale really, really defeats the entire purpose of the game. The game is basically a commentary on turn-based RPGs and the choice between killing enemies to make the game easy, or sparing them, ends up being the mechanic the plot revolves around. Asking for a "skip combat" option defeats the entire point.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
Yeah I get you, I had the feeling of "wish I could just skip this" few times recently while playing the final season of the Walking Dead. I didn't enjoy the new combat mechanics that much. But I still loved the interactions with the people, making choices and seeing how it affects the story and the characters. So watching Let's Play instead as some people have ridiculously suggested would had been much worse option than just having the ability to skip be combat parts I didn't like. I even preferred when it used to be just a QTE. Yet we do have games that let people disable QTE:s like the new Spiderman. Like it allows people to auto-complete the puzzles, but I haven't seen any outrage or complaints about that.
 
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Narroo

Banned
Feb 27, 2018
1,819
People saying "just design better games" sound harsh, but it's pretty much true, in my opinion.

I recently finished Quantum Break. The final boss is a huge difficulty spike, along with some horrible checkpoint placement (puts you before the cutscene, not the fight, so two loading times to try again), the fight itself is awful, just a bunch of enemies and bombs exploding that kill you in one hit with perhaps not enough of a visual cue. It's both hard and boring. It's honestly a trash fight.

But here's the thing: If they gave an option to skip that fight, it would still be a trash fight. Players wouldn't think "wow, that was fun! Loved that boss!" after skipping it, they would think "holy shit that was garbage, skipped". You don't want players thinking your content is garbage, and adding an option to skip won't change anyone's minds about that. It may remove the annoyance, but it won't make the game better. If you're dedicated to improve the user experience, you're better off taking the feedback and trying to improve the horrible parts with patches. Even if you still add an option to skip it.

You can't just add that and call it a day, and think "those who disagree with my flawless vision for that part can just skip it", you need to take responsibility. Some times your content is trash. Skipping won't change that. And personally, I'd rather drop a game that has too many trash parts than keep playing the good ones and skipping the rest. Feels like a waste of time to skip through garbage for some fun here and there. Surely there are better, more worthwhile experiences out there to put my limited time in.

I skipped the live action parts in Quantum Break because I knew I wouldn't like them. Did I end up liking the game? Hell no. I hate it, most likely the worst AAA game I've finished this generation, even made me want an Alan Wake 2 a lot less than I did before. I should have just skipped the game entirely. Giving me the option to skip the misguided live action stuff didn't make the game better, it still suffers from horrible design priorities. Maybe if they didn't focus as much on the trash parts I skipped, it could've been better, like previous Remedy games.
This is a good way to put it.

Side Note: If it's a skill-based game, it's possible the section in question is a skill-check, and if you can't beat it, you'll be skipping a whole lot of game later on. Take Devil May Cry for example: If you can't get past Agni And Rudra, you're going to have a bad time later on. Often. At some point unskippable sections are necessary to prevent players from entering levels that they're not prepared for. If you can't beat one of these sections, either you need to stop and reanalyze how you're approaching the game, or the game simply has really bad tutorialzation (a la most Platinum games.) Or Occasionally, just plain bad design.
 
OP
OP
dock

dock

Game Designer
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
1,367
I understand. How feasable is it to add this to every game, and why do you think that this isnt common in games? Honest question.
Every game I've been a developer on has had some debug options to hop between parts of content. Presenting this in a tidy way is much harder, however.

Games releases are always at odds with the perception of value, and convincing players that difficult, tedious or unenjoyable content is valuable.
 

shem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,955
Persona 5's dungeons come to mind. Especially the ones toward the back half.

Put the game on the easiest setting because I wanted to see the story through but felt like the dungeons got in the way. That way I had time to build social links and max stats
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,741
Yeah I get you, I had the feeling of "wish I could just skip this" few times recently while playing the final season of the Walking Dead. I didn't enjoy the new combat mechanics that much. But I still loved the interactions with the people, making choices and seeing how it affects the story and the characters. So watching Let's Play instead as some people have ridiculously suggested would had been much worse option than just having the ability to skip be combat parts I didn't like. I even preferred when it used to be just a QTE. Yet we do have games that let people remove QTE:s like the new Spiderman. Like it allows people to auto-complete the puzzles, but I haven't seen any outrage or complaints about that.

Why would there be any outrage? The devs included that because they wanted to, not because people kept complaining and writing articles about how much Spider-Man disrespects its players.

I always turn off QTEs in games that allow me to because I hate QTEs, but when they don't, that's fine too.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
Why would there be any outrage? The devs included that because they wanted to, not because people kept complaining and writing articles about how much Spider-Man disrespects its players.

I always turn off QTEs in games that allow me to because I hate QTEs, but when they don't, that's fine too.
Why would there be any outrage if devs implemented skipping combat or bosses options, I don't understand why but there would be. Because there's been controversy for about the mere suggestion of it.
 

Yata

Member
Feb 1, 2019
2,960
Spain
If they're forced to they will. If it takes, say, 32 attempts at a boss in Sekiro before the prompt becomes available they'll likely give it a go rather than try to game the system.

This is different from what OP proposed, I would rather have this than the prompt being available since the start. And I would rather leave the option of an easier mode than an actual ¨skip¨ option. Personally, I feel effort should always be rewarded.

With that said, a handful of players would still abuse this system.
 

Eumi

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,518
Why would there be any outrage if devs implemented skipping combat or bosses options, I don't understand why but there would be. Because there's been controversy for about the mere suggestion of it.
Because that would make certain, specific games worse.

There was no outrage over Spider-Man because Spider-Man is not one of those games.

No one, at least no one reasonable, is mad about any game that offers the option, the main controversy is the demand that every game should offer the option no matter what.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,169
Wakayama
This is different from what OP proposed, I would rather have this than the prompt being available since the start. And I would rather leave the option of an easier mode than an actual ¨skip¨ option. Personally, I feel effort should always be rewarded.

With that said, a handful of players would still abuse this system.

There are always a few that will no matter what. Some just can't be saved, better to ignore them.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
I have to give it to you OP, the bar for surreally bad equivalences was already sky high on the "games should have an easy mode" topic, but you managed to clear it effortlessly in one hop. Hats off, sir.
 
OP
OP
dock

dock

Game Designer
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
1,367
Clearly, optimising for difficulty is a very involved and intertwined process, so it will probably a good deal of work to figure out the best configuration of difficulty options for your game. Good luck!
Thanks for the long post. Lots of good points well made, and there's definitely a balance between difficulty, discomfort and investment.
 

Tigress

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,142
Washington
Where is the fun if you can skip a part of the game? Nothing can replace the feeling of finally finishing a game part what seemed impossible for a long time.
There is nothing bad about being stuck on a game part and if your attention span is so short that you quit forever the game than its your own fault.
And no, not having enough time is no excuse. If you decide to play a game finish it or don't but don't blame the game or its design for your own decisions.

I loved final fantasy 6 but never finished it cause I just didn't enjoy the tower defense games (which I'm not a huge fan of anyways) and couldn't get past the second one. At one point just couldn't get myself to bother trying again. It's a shame because the game is a jrpg that I was enjoying and tower defense was more like a small mini game in the game. Why should I be forced to play some mini game that is not most the game just to go further in the game when most the gameplay had nothing to do with that type game?
 

oneils

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,084
Ottawa Canada
All games with horribly long "walk and talk" segments should let you skip those, imo.

I always thought many of these sections were just loading screens in disguise. Like the new god of war. The game takes over and you are just talking, but it seems to me like its more of a loading screen than anything else. Doesnt mean all sections like this in all games are for loading. but i do think thats whats going on in gow, for example.
 

Rosebud

Two Pieces
Member
Apr 16, 2018
43,494
I always thought many of these sections were just loading screens in disguise. Like the new god of war. The game takes over and you are just talking, but it seems to me like its more of a loading screen than anything else. Doesnt mean all sections like this in all games are for loading. but i do think thats whats going on in gow, for example.

The fast travel screen is just that, loading. But I think I prefer that than just a black screen with "loading"
 

scitek

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,054
Where is the fun if you can skip a part of the game? Nothing can replace the feeling of finally finishing a game part what seemed impossible for a long time.
There is nothing bad about being stuck on a game part and if your attention span is so short that you quit forever the game than its your own fault.
And no, not having enough time is no excuse. If you decide to play a game finish it or don't but don't blame the game or its design for your own decisions.

It's not about getting stuck, or lacking time or patience, some levels are just flat-out terribly designed.

For example, I like Splinter Cell Conviction, but this level



is something everyone should be allowed to skip. It's terribly dull and plays nothing like the rest of the game. It would've been better as a cutscene.
 

T002 Tyrant

Member
Nov 8, 2018
8,936
Sometimes I wish they'd scrap the stealth segments in The Last of Us because I felt they were horrifically designed in my opinion. But then I realised that was the entire game, so I gave up playing. Sometimes I wish like Red Dead it would allow you to skip parts that are getting frustrating, but then again that'd defeat the point in the game and probably The Last of Us isn't my kind of game and I'll stick to stealth games like the MGS series.

Long story short I don't think autopilot would be a solution for every kind of game, but I wouldn't be opposed to it under certain circumstances or if it's implemented well under accessibility options. I'd probably be more for adaptive difficulty or something that temporarily say for stealth sections made it easier if you were getting frustrated with it.

It's certainly an interesting debate.
 

ColonelForbin

Member
Oct 28, 2017
601
I finally got platinum in enter the gungeon. Probably one of my best gaming achievements in my life. No. There should not be a auto pilot. It devalues the challenge and achievement of accomplishing a difficult game.
 

daegan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,897
I use auto mode in Dragalia Lost sometimes to run dungeons when I just don't want to but that is a game that players who get on with it will play hundreds of hours eventually of really similar play actions, so I think in cases like that it is sensible.
 

Leveean

Member
Nov 9, 2017
1,081
I'm glad most of the recruitment and tower defense stuff in Assassin's Creed is skippable. I'd be more glad if it just didn't exist.

Instead of making skippable mechanics devs should just be more aggressive cutting mechanics a lot of people aren't going to like.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,653
If people want to watch a game instead of playing it, well they can find one of the million streamers out there.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
Because that would make certain, specific games worse.

There was no outrage over Spider-Man because Spider-Man is not one of those games.

No one, at least no one reasonable, is mad about any game that offers the option, the main controversy is the demand that every game should offer the option no matter what.
Well this is a thread by a developer sharing their thoughts and asking people what they think. I don't think there's any demands here. And demand is rather peculiar choice for words, is that same as a suggesting, wishing and asking? I wish all games had more options for the player to tailor it to better suit them, like with options to skip certain content and mechanics. Not a demand, just something I'd like to see the industry move even more forwards to. Similarly with mod support, I wish more devs would put effort into it. I don't think I'm in any position to demand anything from developers, the publisher might be.
 
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Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,168
Boss fights you can't win are the worst. I spend the end of Hellblade constantly fighting and just gave up (realising it was the point).