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“Generic white dude video game protagonist.” How does this trend/phrase make you feel?
- Thread starter Spring-Loaded
- Start date
Probably more suitable for another thread, since this is more related to race and games, but, as a bissexual, the character in media I most identified with so far is Lionel from Dear White People. I know he is gay, but I always felt people around me tried to pigeonhole me into what they saw as the gay stereotype, the very effeminate man, someone who has to know all about pop music and divas and so on. It was nice to see a character that seemed to be in the same spot as me. It kinda gave me confidence to be myself when I was feeling the pressure of trying to be something other people wanted me to be.
I guess what I'm trying to say, from the point of view of someone who is LGBT, is that representation comes in a variety of ways, and it can matter a lot to someone, helping them feel comfortable with who they are, and where they are. Having those kinds of characters be in the main cast of major games could go a long way to helping those people.
I guess what I'm trying to say, from the point of view of someone who is LGBT, is that representation comes in a variety of ways, and it can matter a lot to someone, helping them feel comfortable with who they are, and where they are. Having those kinds of characters be in the main cast of major games could go a long way to helping those people.
That white PEOPLE take offense to being called white because they prefer to be seen as default.
No. "White" is a descriptive term. What many white people have issues with is how the term seems to exclusively be rolled out in conversations for negative reasons, to dimsiss POVs or as a general accusatory term, but then they have to accept it with all the shit baggage people inject it with or else they are secretely aiming for that sweet "default" status.
I'm baffled I need to point this out. Like, this shit is pretty obvious.
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ffs you had people in the Serena thread straight up asking members if they were white males in order to know how seriously their arguments should be taken.
Nah, the issue is with the reproduction of white supremacy and patriarchy. As long as Game developers and publishers keep centering white dudes, they're reinforcing sexist and racist norms in society
I always felt BJ being like that was part of the irony of the very model of Aryan Perfection being a guy from jewish heritage that is slaughtering Nazis left and right.
seems too early to dismiss the protags of RDR2 and Days Gone as generic. Also feels disrespectful to the creators of said games at this stage.
You can take an issue with them being white and not what you or whole of others want to see in the games you play.
For me, personally, well written protags are a joy to play with, white or not.
I mean, I'd quite happily take a generic black female lead.
Making your characters interesting should be a priority, sure, but why not also make them not-white and/or not-male.
I only care first and foremost about the stories behind those characters, and then their art design.
The way I see it, generic is generic. Generic is uninteresting, black or white, male or female.
I mean I see your point, don't get me wrong, I'm just talking about it from a very specific perspective. Wider representation is just as important, of course, it just wouldn't serve much of a purpose for the story other than checking off that "representation" box if it was still an uninteresting character.
The idea of uplifting "equality" via the diminishment of one particular race/color seems counterintuitive. We can have games with diverse leading characters and even character creators without having to completely shit on "white males" or wipe them away from all future games. Some of you are becoming that which you despise.
When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression
Asking for more diversity and less dominance of white dudes everywhere is not "shitting on white males". It's just asking the mean kid taking up 90% of the toys to share with others for once.
But the question is, when was the last time a game featured an uninteresting black female protagonist to even check a box (especially if she is generic character who has little to no positive bearing on the story)? I get your point too and while this is absolutely a valid concern, introducing changes like these to a society that contains predominantly American white veterans of the industry and the market who have been the incumbent for a long time, it will ALWAYS be perceived as "forced diversity" (i.e. threat to their racial identity). As such, it is better to break a few eggs to get things started than to never have tried at all.
I just finished watching this video named "European History is Not White History - A response to Mark Collett" and I must say that I have been quite reductive at times with regards to this issue when it comes just colour. To portray things more accurately, generic white man is essentially a woefully dull character who is most likely american, white, heterosexual, one dimensional and might even embody certain characteristics of toxic and/or hyper masculinity.
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Or long-haired ones (in non-Anime games). And I mean real long hair, not Solid Snake/Geralt "long" hair. Gabriel Belmont in LoS2 is the only mainstream western example that comes to my mind.
I'll at least give Japanese protags that much, they do have a variety of hairstyles... even if, sadly, it's often incredibly stupid ones. xD
Now now, leave the stubble alone!
I never picture myself as the character I'm playing in games. Even RPGs. I don't care about the race or gender. I just want interesting characters.
That said, there is definitely a status quo and white male is still the default model used for a lot of games. Companies are terrified of alienating key demographics.
If you are in Japan, the Japanese aren't going to cater to black men in their marketing or products. They have a main demographic. I think the same thing always happened in the States with whites.
As the demographic continues to change however, I think you'll be seeing that reflected in games. Companies just want to make money and they are always going to target the largest audience. That audience is radically changing though.
That said, there is definitely a status quo and white male is still the default model used for a lot of games. Companies are terrified of alienating key demographics.
If you are in Japan, the Japanese aren't going to cater to black men in their marketing or products. They have a main demographic. I think the same thing always happened in the States with whites.
As the demographic continues to change however, I think you'll be seeing that reflected in games. Companies just want to make money and they are always going to target the largest audience. That audience is radically changing though.
Nah, that's just your crazy scenario you developed in your head as a means to some big conspiracy where Game Developers are trying to push this world view. It's not that sinister or evil as you like to think.
Playing say a black woman in RDR2 would certainly be interesting, but it would have to be an entirely different game.
As an artist myself I am severely alarmed at how few character designs these days pass a simple fucking silhouette test. Things are so damned non-distinct these days its painful. Thats without touching upon the shooter craze of generic soldier/space marine. Try throwing up the silhouettes of thirty of those guys from various games and watch people struggle to guess them right.
You wanna be iconic? Make something that holds up to a silhouette test. Its a basic part of every art students education and every artist in general can attest to its truth. Games have ignored this heavily for awhile in many top projects.
You wanna be iconic? Make something that holds up to a silhouette test. Its a basic part of every art students education and every artist in general can attest to its truth. Games have ignored this heavily for awhile in many top projects.
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Wut? It doesn't need to be some big conspiracy that devs/publishers are all actively coordinating. They can play a part in contributing to the issue without realizing it or trying to do so. Or they simply do it out of misguided attempts to reach more success.
Unless you're trying to argue video games and the gaming industry don't have racism and male-centrism problems. If that's what you're getting at, then forget I said anything
No, I get what you are saying -- but if he means that the industry is unconsciously feeding into something bigger, then I understand.
But I do feel like this issue is way blown out of proportion nowadays, I think there is a good balance in games released now. It was something that was as it was, people voiced they want it another way, so the industry slowly adapted. I don't understand how people get so up in arms about it... there was never any ill will towards anyone, it was all just growing pains of a young industry.
Look through the games of 2018 and 2019, the amount that exclusively star a White Male is not very big. Acting as if this is an ongoing issue that is pushed by the "WHITE PATRIARCHY" is insanely ignorant.
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There's no universal standard for blowing things "within proportion." And considering how anytime there's stuff in the news like black people on Twitch getting bombarded with racist emotes and messages or any woman who criticises a game publically gets rape threats, they are universally met with "shocked.gif," I don't think we've reached the "blown out of proportion" level just yet.
The gatekeeping of what kind of ethnicity or race a protagonist gets to be without the devs getting harassed and accused of "forcing" diversity into their game is just one aspect of those grander racist/sexist issues. Just because not every last protagonist this year is a white guy doesn't mean the people talking about it should be forced to shut up. If you can acknowledge how dangerous racism and sexism are and how peoples' lives and livelihood are literally at risk—even just within the gaming space—then you can acknowledge the worth of the discussion, and how it's actually not ridiculous to say "reinforcing sexist and racist norms in society." It's just true. There's nothing overly dramatic about that.
I posted this in the Day's Gone Art thread but noticed this may be of relevance here. The following are two quotes that occurred in the thread. My post follows them.
This is very interesting to read, thanks. I do wonder if the silhouette test is more agreeable when working with non-humanoid and human characters that feature cartoonish proportions (like Fortnite or Team Fortress).
This topic came up with my girlfriend, and she made a rather funny observation; despite of the conditions in The Walking Dead, the women have their legs and armpits shaved. :D Yet the men have to have facial hair because reasons.
i just think we have to define what "generic" means
Obviously not all white dudes protagonist are generic, I'm playing Max Payne for example, but it does feel a lot of games just throw one there because they couldn't come up with anything, like Rage. They should at least let you create your own character.
I'm honestly so bored with white male leads (generic or otherwise) I've skipped games because of them. Not always to my benefit (not being interested in Geralt is why it took me years to get into Witcher 3) but, like... there's SO many games out there, and they're so time consuming, that if I'm gonna be with someone for 50+ hours I don't want to be bored with them before I've started playing. After hundreds if not thousands of hours with white male protagonists I'm just bored of them. If they're not grandfathered in (Mario, Link, Batman) it takes a lot to get me interested, and, speaking of those characters, I'd be pumped to play as Peach, Zelda, and Batgirl next go around.
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Yeah, there are too many cookie cutter (safe, moist) characters that may as well be customizable. It does no one any favors to treat "white 30-something dude" as the default to the point that design becomes synonymous with "generic."
With infinite alts, one has nothing to fear
there should be two categories
generic white guy protagonists
and Rockstar games white guy protagonists
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Did you see reactions to GTA: San Andreas' protagonist? I still remember a classmate saying they wouldn't play the game because of it ...
i have seen a few people say they won't play RDR 2 cause the protagonist is a white guy too
Do you really think these two things are equivalent? That refusing to play a game because the protagonist is too samey as those before him, is the same thing as refusing to play a game because the protagonist is black?
I don't mind the inherent exterior looks of a person and I'm not a deranged extremist. "Generic videogame protagonist" will be generic regardless of skin color, sex, gender, orientation, religion and so on. So this "White guy" part of it is not needed.
That said, I guess that the part of that specific skin color and sex being the dominant one in the industry is an understandable reason for anyone to think that it might be an additional touch for the "Genericness" of a character, but it's such a minimal part of it that it might as well not be a problem IMO.
That said, I guess that the part of that specific skin color and sex being the dominant one in the industry is an understandable reason for anyone to think that it might be an additional touch for the "Genericness" of a character, but it's such a minimal part of it that it might as well not be a problem IMO.
its ridiculous to say that their "samey" though, especially Rockstar's characters
you can't tell me that Niko Bellic, Michael, Trevor, John Marston are all the "same" characters, even though their all "white".
Rockstar makes interesting protagonists
