Oh I like this. I like this take here. Perfect 10s for flexibility and form.
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“Generic white dude video game protagonist.” How does this trend/phrase make you feel?
- Thread starter Spring-Loaded
- Start date
If their written well then they aren't very generic, my guy.
I feel like it is being overused a lot. Every time a new game surfaces with a main character who is not female or black or minority or LGBT or something else it gets the "boring white man" sticker, which is stupid tbh. I mean its the game creaters' vision and story/world so if that is not something you like, simply don't buy it. Don't hate on the creators because its something you don't like thats just nonsense. I don't walk into Mcdonalds and say "ugh hamburgers again?!" No, if I don't want hamburgers I'll go some place else and let the people that do like hamburgers eat in peace. Its a dumb example, but you get the point I'm making here.
I have no problem with whom I play, boring white man, black, female etc etc.
I have no problem with whom I play, boring white man, black, female etc etc.
no i don't feel persecuted, why should i?
the negativityaround it is given the fact that is a trend that comes with the iper focus-testing of modern videogame..basically it's the result of the shift from the attempt of making a protagonist memorable to trying to make one that can be disliked the least by making it as featurless as possible.
it has nothing to do with its race..we are in a prevalently white part of the world, so the average would inevitably tend to white
the negativityaround it is given the fact that is a trend that comes with the iper focus-testing of modern videogame..basically it's the result of the shift from the attempt of making a protagonist memorable to trying to make one that can be disliked the least by making it as featurless as possible.
it has nothing to do with its race..we are in a prevalently white part of the world, so the average would inevitably tend to white
It definitely shows a lack of creative imagination and a fear of taking risks among the developers and designers. After all, video games are just another business and the biggest market is 30 year old white men, so of course they're going to be catered to.
A majority of video game characters are white men, and a majority of video game characters are badly written or boring.
People then conflate the two, and think its a matter of skin color and gender. As more diverse characters gain the spotlight, it will become more apparent (that they're also boring).
People then conflate the two, and think its a matter of skin color and gender. As more diverse characters gain the spotlight, it will become more apparent (that they're also boring).
You are either lying or so sheltered it's a miracle you even are on ERA.
People complain about the lack of diversity casting in movies all the time.
You're being reductive. It's perfectly fine to criticize McDonald's if all 14 combo items are Big Mac + fries.
We are in an era where there are more female and non white protagonists than ever before and people still arent happy. Just like year we had Aloy in Horizon, an Arab lead in AC Origins, a mixed race female lead in Battlefront 2, a mixed race lead in Uncharted Lost Legacy with a black female as second lead and an asian villain. Looking at Sony's E3 showing, we had a lesbian female lead in her late teens, a japanese guy in an entirely japanese setting with no white people anywhere and a generic white guy in Death Stranding made by Japanese developer. Knowing Kojima and Norman Reedus, there will be nothing generic about this guy.
If anything we are due for white protaganists in games lol. While a western with a black guy wouldve been great (Django style), i dont see the RDR2 guy and think wow yet another white guy in a western! i see the character, and he looks to have potential to be a great character. the voice acting and facial capture is great and with some good writing, he can be a memorable character.
Days Gone guy is supposed to be a biker. i dont see many black bikers riding harleys around town. Now, if they white washed the game and had no black side characters, i would be upset. But right now, looking at Sony's output this gen, they are due for a white guy.
Killzone Shadow Fall - white guy.
infamous second Son - native american guy
Order 1866 - white guy
Until Dawn - Asian girl, black guy, 2 white girls and 2 white guys. Pretty even.
Uncharted 4 - White guy but anything but generic.
The Last Guardian - young boy, definitely not white.
Horizon - White girl
Uncharted Lost Legacy - biracial indian girl
God of War - Really Tanned white guy ?? lol definitely not generic and played by two black actors.
Detroit - White girl, Biracial guy, white guy - Pretty decent considering they are all robots.
Spiderman - White guy but it has the most diverse cast of side characters i have ever seen. Black people everywhere. Cops, side characters, NPCs. It must be an alt right nightmare. Asian villains. Asian side characters. Hell, i even saw some NPCs wearing the hijab. If anything it's a white guy surrounded by millions of minorities.
Days Gone - White guy. Maybe generic, we dont know.
Ghost Of Tshushima - Japanese guy
TLOU 2 - White girl with a full lesbian kissing scene, something we still dont see in hollywood blockbusters. Neil taking a massive risk and telling gamergate to fuck off. How balsy is that.
Death Stranding- Norman Fucking Reedus
In total 8 white guys in 15 games out of a total of 21 leads. Thats what 33%? That's pretty fucking good. Seeing as how most of these studios are american and european studios where 75% of the population is white, thats great to see.
If anything we are due for white protaganists in games lol. While a western with a black guy wouldve been great (Django style), i dont see the RDR2 guy and think wow yet another white guy in a western! i see the character, and he looks to have potential to be a great character. the voice acting and facial capture is great and with some good writing, he can be a memorable character.
Days Gone guy is supposed to be a biker. i dont see many black bikers riding harleys around town. Now, if they white washed the game and had no black side characters, i would be upset. But right now, looking at Sony's output this gen, they are due for a white guy.
Killzone Shadow Fall - white guy.
infamous second Son - native american guy
Order 1866 - white guy
Until Dawn - Asian girl, black guy, 2 white girls and 2 white guys. Pretty even.
Uncharted 4 - White guy but anything but generic.
The Last Guardian - young boy, definitely not white.
Horizon - White girl
Uncharted Lost Legacy - biracial indian girl
God of War - Really Tanned white guy ?? lol definitely not generic and played by two black actors.
Detroit - White girl, Biracial guy, white guy - Pretty decent considering they are all robots.
Spiderman - White guy but it has the most diverse cast of side characters i have ever seen. Black people everywhere. Cops, side characters, NPCs. It must be an alt right nightmare. Asian villains. Asian side characters. Hell, i even saw some NPCs wearing the hijab. If anything it's a white guy surrounded by millions of minorities.
Days Gone - White guy. Maybe generic, we dont know.
Ghost Of Tshushima - Japanese guy
TLOU 2 - White girl with a full lesbian kissing scene, something we still dont see in hollywood blockbusters. Neil taking a massive risk and telling gamergate to fuck off. How balsy is that.
Death Stranding- Norman Fucking Reedus
In total 8 white guys in 15 games out of a total of 21 leads. Thats what 33%? That's pretty fucking good. Seeing as how most of these studios are american and european studios where 75% of the population is white, thats great to see.
That's true, probably not the best idea to have more CJ's as that normalizes what people think about Black people, but to defend Franklin just a little, Michael & Trevor are straight up murderers in their backstories, Franklin just roughed people up or stole their stuff if they owed money, he was no where near as bad as the other 2 GTAV protags.
Worthington. The generic action movie hero, we've come full circle fellas.
I find the complaint about days gone particularly funny since that's a REAL guy.
Edit: I could care less what I play as. Games are escapism for me, pure and simple.
Edit: I could care less what I play as. Games are escapism for me, pure and simple.
I couldn't care less about the race of the protagonist if the game is good. Plus Aurthur looks pretty cool. I love his voice and character from what I see .
Relegating anyone, regardless of race or creed, to it's basest form by itself is not very creative-especially if it lacks any real justification. Just like it would be uninspired to label a primary character who is non-white or female as a "strong, diverse lead character". Sure, it's a positive descriptor and may be true of that character, but if we want to really branch outside of looking at the appearance of a character (or anyone IRL for that matter), we've got to be a little more creative and find out more about them before we give them a boilerplate label or title. Those truly special standouts could lose their appeal by being lumped into a standard praise wrapping while those who may break the mold with unseen depth suffer due to the boring nature of their label. So while it doesn't bother me that iterations of "generic white protag" float around, I think it's more important to focus on the why like OP did in his previous posts (I think I'm posting the right one below)
I mean it rockstar they don't make generic protagonists not since Claude in gta 3
I really don't think about it. I'm probably more interested in what they wear, if they have cool armor or clothes, than anything else.
All in all it's what the dev went with, and it's what I'll deal with.
All in all it's what the dev went with, and it's what I'll deal with.
The actor. I just imagined a person telling him he's too white and generic, in real life.
Edit: though, as an actor, I'm sure he's heard that a LOT.
Midnight club guy was pretty generic, but then again that whole game was generic.
I don't care about their skin color. I just don't want them to be annoying or have a bland AF personality.
And tbh, I don't think I've played a game recently with an annoying or bland protag.
Edit: Scratch that. Octopath has some pretty bland protags.
And tbh, I don't think I've played a game recently with an annoying or bland protag.
Edit: Scratch that. Octopath has some pretty bland protags.
Like I said its a dumb example so don't read to much into it. I feel like that term is overused, when the fact is there is more games out there without a boring white man than ever. Can't we just be happy about that? I'm worried for devs who make new games now, its almost like they need to 'tick all the boxes', just so they don't offend anyone these days.
For Western games, it's the generic white guy and for Japanese games it's the generic dark-haired high schooler type or 'stupid-but-heart-of-gold' characters that give me the same feeling of malaise. Them existing as the main doesn't necessarily make a game unplayable, but it does immediately turn me off of it quite a bit from jump.
Like many have said, it's just something that we've gotten used to over time. The most aggravating thing, though, is when a character is not the staple white guy but isn't necessarily a stereotype and the common argument is :" if they're not gonna act like "x", why not just make them a white "x"?", as if a character can only not be white if there's a specific reason for them not to be. Everything in my life doesn't revolve around me being a black dude, so it's nice when there are characters that also have things about them that aren't solely based around their non-whiteness.
Like many have said, it's just something that we've gotten used to over time. The most aggravating thing, though, is when a character is not the staple white guy but isn't necessarily a stereotype and the common argument is :" if they're not gonna act like "x", why not just make them a white "x"?", as if a character can only not be white if there's a specific reason for them not to be. Everything in my life doesn't revolve around me being a black dude, so it's nice when there are characters that also have things about them that aren't solely based around their non-whiteness.
I feel nothing for the generic white guy trend. I don't connect with player characters (or any characters) on any deep level because they are not real. It's the same with movies for me. I'm looking to be entertained, not for some kind of emotional investment. The only time I have any sort of investment is when I am making the character, which is usually a female, since I probably now have a more direct stake in the story.
That said, I support the need for more diverse characters in games. Even though it doesn't affect me, I know it has an impact for other people and I support having representation in our entertainment without resorting to dumb stereotypes.
That said, I support the need for more diverse characters in games. Even though it doesn't affect me, I know it has an impact for other people and I support having representation in our entertainment without resorting to dumb stereotypes.
That's a helpful analysis. Thanks for taking the time to do this.
Well I mean (bar the few devs in here) we're not the ones making the games :P
If he's been to any live acting casting calls probably so. I've been told I wasn't "hood" enough despite growing up in Clifton projects my entire life and currently living in Norcross.
I have seriously never heard of any group of people who called out Big Boss or Solid Snake as bad characters "because they are white". Heard a few people now in this thread who seemed outraged by the fact that people would dislike Solid/Boss because of that but it seems like a giant strawman to me.
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I'm automatically less interested in a game now and going forward with a white male protagonist. That obviously doesn't mean it can't be a good game or the character can't be great but it tempers my enthusiasm every time it occurs.
Days Gone's choice seems particularly absurd without knowing the narrative and the game has its work cut out for it to get me over the hump of caring for or liking the protagonist (if that's what the writing wants from me). I have a lot of imagery associated with a white male MC member and none of them are good. Of all the protagonists a brand new IP could choose they go with a white dude in a motorcycle club. Just, why?
Days Gone's choice seems particularly absurd without knowing the narrative and the game has its work cut out for it to get me over the hump of caring for or liking the protagonist (if that's what the writing wants from me). I have a lot of imagery associated with a white male MC member and none of them are good. Of all the protagonists a brand new IP could choose they go with a white dude in a motorcycle club. Just, why?
To answer the big question: no, I don't feel slighted or repressed by shoddily overwritten white boy characters in games. And more representation is not just preferred but practically a requirement for the betterment of our pastime.
I don't think the problem is as much in a white male protagonist as it is in just boring and bland writing for these characters. Too many writers still write the same 30-year-old "lone wolf" archetype for these characters, basically an evolution of the "bad enough dude to rescue the president" type. That type is not exclusive to white men, though that type when done for a woman definitely has a different effect (i.e. Samus or Lara Croft).
Great example. We obviously haven't played the game yet but nothing about that character is interesting or stands out. We just know that he's a guy with a gun and it's him against the world.
Because they are such similar games, compare him to Joel from the Last of Us and you'll see exactly where the heart is missing. Joel has a purpose and is a vulnerable character in a way that is more impactful, who although he himself feels solely responsible for Ellie, he feels he is weaker without her, and often doesn't feel he's strong enough to protect her, similar to the self-doubt I would guess one feels when they enter fatherhood.
Also, just a personal point, but modern games need to stop with the constant dialogue and leave some things to inference. Find a different way to tell your story that is more natural to exploration. Zelda BOTW's story is excellent in that way. The closer you get to the center of Hyrule, the more you see the effects of the calamity. And Link says NOTHING. No monologues. No constant disruptions. Love it. I honestly hope he never speaks.
I don't think the problem is as much in a white male protagonist as it is in just boring and bland writing for these characters. Too many writers still write the same 30-year-old "lone wolf" archetype for these characters, basically an evolution of the "bad enough dude to rescue the president" type. That type is not exclusive to white men, though that type when done for a woman definitely has a different effect (i.e. Samus or Lara Croft).
Great example. We obviously haven't played the game yet but nothing about that character is interesting or stands out. We just know that he's a guy with a gun and it's him against the world.
Because they are such similar games, compare him to Joel from the Last of Us and you'll see exactly where the heart is missing. Joel has a purpose and is a vulnerable character in a way that is more impactful, who although he himself feels solely responsible for Ellie, he feels he is weaker without her, and often doesn't feel he's strong enough to protect her, similar to the self-doubt I would guess one feels when they enter fatherhood.
Also, just a personal point, but modern games need to stop with the constant dialogue and leave some things to inference. Find a different way to tell your story that is more natural to exploration. Zelda BOTW's story is excellent in that way. The closer you get to the center of Hyrule, the more you see the effects of the calamity. And Link says NOTHING. No monologues. No constant disruptions. Love it. I honestly hope he never speaks.
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I don't have a problem with the term "white male" at all. We need more representation in all media period.
I don't like the term generic though. Or the "Boring white male" term.
I dont get the mindset that white male characters are generic or boring by default just because of their skin colour. Generic as a term is a blanket statement that makes it seem like all these characters are just the same robotic one sided people. A lot of games do have generic white male characters but a lot also don't.
I don't like the term generic though. Or the "Boring white male" term.
I dont get the mindset that white male characters are generic or boring by default just because of their skin colour. Generic as a term is a blanket statement that makes it seem like all these characters are just the same robotic one sided people. A lot of games do have generic white male characters but a lot also don't.
Big boss is my fucking hero, big boss should star in every game ad eternum, idgaf. If they have personality and aren't annoying, they can be Kratos white for all I care. That being said ALL the male-commander Shepard-clones can go milly rock off a goddamn bridge.
I'm white and any game that lets me make my character I always end up playing as an Asian dude.
As far as Red Dead 2 goes I can get over the character, but to be perfectly honest I would have been over the moon if they had got Lou Diamond Phillips to do the main character's voice and made him a Mexican Indian.
It's a fair criticism and I think the anyone who see this as an attack on white people needs to think about what kind of person they are.
To quote Kevin Nash, quoting the Undertaker.
As far as Red Dead 2 goes I can get over the character, but to be perfectly honest I would have been over the moon if they had got Lou Diamond Phillips to do the main character's voice and made him a Mexican Indian.
It's a fair criticism and I think the anyone who see this as an attack on white people needs to think about what kind of person they are.
To quote Kevin Nash, quoting the Undertaker.
I don't know, this seems like the sort of thing that's going away seeing as though in the past couple years I played as an Egyptian Male, White Super Soldier, a Black Man living in 1968, a strong white woman in the distant future so on and so forth.
I think it comes down to the developer, maybe they don't look at it from a certain angle or maybe they don't see their protagonists as generic.
Who knows.
I think it comes down to the developer, maybe they don't look at it from a certain angle or maybe they don't see their protagonists as generic.
Who knows.
The only problem was that in both mainline GTA games that had playable black males. They both came from the hood which surely was a blatant stereotype.
The OP stated just the opposite. The thing is if he is just a blank slate can he be a blank slate with boobs or brown skin every once in a while?
As a white male I am generally ambivalent towards the race of the protagonist. I always pick female characters when given the choice and I feel like I tend to like female characters more in general but not sure why.
Race of the protagonist doesn't matter to me because I've spent my whole life being catered to in that regard. If it were up to me we would turn white protagonists into WW2 games- once completely dominant and boring, now a rare mix-up.
Race of the protagonist doesn't matter to me because I've spent my whole life being catered to in that regard. If it were up to me we would turn white protagonists into WW2 games- once completely dominant and boring, now a rare mix-up.
