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“I don’t think I like Prestige Games”

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Proven

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,303

I read through it and agree with a lot of the points. While I disagree on the points about uncharted 2 which I actually like, I can definitely see where he is coming from.

Red Dead Redemption 2 is my Game of the Generation so far and it might as well be called prestige the game. So what do you think? Also, if you disagree with the argument, try not to be mean. It’s just an opinion after all.
 
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Rhaknar

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,283
I like games. Sometimes it feels like people are looking for reasons to not like something, be it triple A or indie or rougelike or whatever.
 

Qwark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,886
Since the link isn't working... what is a prestige game? Is it like an artsy thing? Or is it literally prestiging, i.e. leveling up and resetting?
 

Viceratops

Member
Jun 29, 2018
1,820
I read this yesterday and the prose makes it so easy to imagine the writer smelling his own farts as he writes each line.
Since the link isn't working... what is a prestige game? Is it like an artsy thing? Or is it literally prestiging, i.e. leveling up and resetting?
It’s a game made by Sony or has Sony marketing associated with it.
 
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Proven

Proven

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,303
For some reason the article isn’t linking and it’s glitching out, so I’m linking the tweet where I first read the article from. You can click from there
 

Bear

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,612
It’s an interesting premise for a write up, but what exactly are we defining as a prestige game?
What is a prestige game? That’s hard to define, because different studios make different games, and these games come in a lot of different packages. Like, I’d argue that prestige games are predominantly third person games, but I’d also argue that Bioshock Infinite is a prestige game. I could argue that a lot of prestige games deal with Being A Father (God of War, Red Dead Redemption, Bioshock Infinite, The Last of Us), but not all of them.

I’d say that prestige games are expensive AAA-type games that imitate better art without really understanding or improving upon them in any way, often using fairly boilerplate mechanics to accomplish this.
Prestige Worldwide-wide-wide.
 

SmugAcolyte

Member
Feb 4, 2018
79
Some games are good and fun, and some games are bad and not fun. A game’s budget doesn’t preclude it from falling into either category.
 

higemaru

Member
Nov 30, 2017
1,574
I understand the argument the article is making, but U2 wouldn’t have been my first pick. Uncharted 2 was pulpy and dumb and had a lot of fun highlights, like the fact you could switch out your character model with Jeff, the camera guy who gets offed immediately.

Contrast with The Last of Us, which was a grim and gritty game whose slow pace and self-seriousness was at odds with what I am looking for from a game.
 

ThousandEyes

Member
Sep 3, 2019
590
Anyone that calls red dead redemption 2 “soulless” even if you didn’t like the gameplay is one I can’t take serious... sorry
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,252
The notion of disliking and dismissing an entire category of any entertainment medium is ridiculous to me. Even in genres I generally dislike in games, film, books, etc., there are always a handful I do end up liking. The use of "Prestige Game" just makes the whole thing come off as "mainstream games...ew" snobbery, too.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,640
At least nowadays critics really push for "prestige" label to rightfully extend beyond the realm of AAA, so it is not anymore like 1950s Hollywood telling you that the biggest most glamorous film of the year was inherently the best, but more towards modern Hollywood.
 

RecRoulette

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,093
I don't like God of War, I guess I don't like Prestige games /s

Seeing people jump through hoops to try and explain why they don't like a game the majority of folks like is so weird. Like what you like and don't apologize for not liking something.
 

Bit_Reactor

Member
Apr 9, 2019
1,813
This sums up my thoughts about most the titles in this vein. "I've already watched this movie, why would I play an inferior version of its plot."

Gaming doesn't have anything "to prove" to other media and it never really did.

I feel like many are taking this piece about "This type of game doesn't work for me" as "this type of game is bad" even when the tweet thread goes out of its way to confirm that's not what he's saying. Even the headline sums up his perspective without being clickbait. "I don't think I like X" is the most un-confrontational stance to take and one several threads on this very forum have started with.
 

GTAce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,152
Bonn, Germany
The notion of disliking and dismissing an entire category of any entertainment medium is ridiculous to me. Even in genres I generally dislike in games, film, books, etc., there are always a handful I do end up liking. The use of "Prestige Game" just makes the whole thing come off as "mainstream games...ew" snobbery, too.
 

kadotsu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,383
Boiling down something to prestige as a determining factor just means that you are very shallow in your criticism. Often it is a very specific thing that kills the enjoyment of a game for someone, as a critic you should be able to pinpoint that.
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,548
this is a pretty wordy and borderline pretentious way of saying "i dont like cinematic games"
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,336
It's a quality writeup, and I think meandering style works for the subject.

Basically, prestige games are large-budget exercises in giving their audience things that they've seen before. Usually, they're packaged well, but empty when it comes to new ideas. Doc's complaint, it seems to me, is that there is a particular variety of games that are mere repackaging of successes from other media, and that are provided accolades in return. It's a valid complaint when compared to how much the medium of games actually allows people to express.

Anyway, folks should check the article for its argument before raising their hackles over the concept. Look to see what he's calling "prestige games" before you sling accusations of elitism. Doc is no snob - the article celebrates Halo, Gears of War, and a bunch of others, and he's a big fan of Destiny, besides. Snobbery isn't the point - a complaint about repackaged media, and their celebrated reception, is.
 

SilentRob

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,646
Yeah, this is a really weird article. Pretty much everything they write fits Gears 5 perfectly, but simply because Gears 5 resonated with them, it's not actually part of that nebulous "Prestige Game" category?

It just meanders all over the place while they keep trying to justify why they don't like certain high-budget-games, trying SO HARD to find a category to define them by. Arguing that Uncharted 2 or God of War or Last of Us is some tired retreat of "better art" that only copies and emulates while Gears 5 is this emotional tour de force full of new ideas and brave steps ahead is just...weird, because the article so utterly fails to make any argument for it (as do the games, of course). It just states these things as fact and then draws the conclusion from those, well, "facts".

Last year, I had different opinions on A LOT of AAA games. I strongly, strongly disliked Spider-Man, God of War couldn't grasp me, Far Cry was incredibly boring to me, as was Red Dead 2. But I never felt like I had to categorize them into some weird "Wanna-Be-Art" category while all the AAA games I DID like were, of course, real art. It's just a really weird approach that the author really fails to make much of an argument for.
 

Canucked

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,504
I am open to any game that gives me a good time. No matter where it's made or whatever.

Except if it has little anime kids. Pass.
 

verygooster

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,711
New Jersey
The part about Uncharted 2 feels like overthinking it? Like, I get why ND games don't ring for some people, but not everyone who does is trying to be like "I'm smart for liking this." Some people are just in it those for 'recreated moments' as the author puts it.
 
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Proven

Proven

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,303
It's a quality writeup, and I think meandering style works for the subject.

Basically, prestige games are large-budget exercises in giving their audience things that they've seen before. Usually, they're packaged well, but empty when it comes to new ideas. Doc's complaint, it seems to me, is that there is a particular variety of games that are mere repackaging of successes from other media, and that are provided accolades in return. It's a valid complaint when compared to how much the medium of games actually allows people to express.

Anyway, folks should check the article for its argument before raising their hackles over the concept. Look to see what he's calling "prestige games" before you sling accusations of elitism. Doc is no snob - the article celebrates Halo, Gears of War, and a bunch of others, and he's a big fan of Destiny, besides. Snobbery isn't the point - a complaint about repackaged media, and their celebrated reception, is.
Agree. RDR2 is my favorite game this gen, but it steals a lot of ideas from other western stories and repackages them into video game form. It’s very well done but nothing seen in RDR2 is breaking any story telling ground.
 

Jawbreaker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,409
New York City
Yeah, this is a really weird article. Pretty much everything they write fits Gears 5 perfectly, but simply because Gears 5 resonated with them, it's not actually part of that nebulous "Prestige Game" category?

It just meanders all over the place while they keep trying to justify why they don't like certain high-budget-games, trying SO HARD to find a category to define them by. Arguing that Uncharted 2 or God of War or Last of Us is some tired retreat of "better art" that only copies and emulates while Gears 5 is this emotional tour de force full of new ideas and brave steps ahead is just...weird, because the article so utterly fails to make any argument for it (as do the games, of course). It just states these things as fact and then draws the conclusion from those "facts".
If you've followed the author since NeoGAF days, he's incredibly biased. Take that into consideration.
 

Bit_Reactor

Member
Apr 9, 2019
1,813
It's a quality writeup, and I think meandering style works for the subject.

Basically, prestige games are large-budget exercises in giving their audience things that they've seen before. Usually, they're packaged well, but empty when it comes to new ideas. Doc's complaint, it seems to me, is that there is a particular variety of games that are mere repackaging of successes from other media, and that are provided accolades in return. It's a valid complaint when compared to how much the medium of games actually allows people to express.

Anyway, folks should check the article for its argument before raising their hackles over the concept. Look to see what he's calling "prestige games" before you sling accusations of elitism. Doc is no snob - the article celebrates Halo, Gears of War, and a bunch of others, and he's a big fan of Destiny, besides. Snobbery isn't the point - a complaint about repackaged media, and their celebrated reception, is.
Yeah I know it's just another internet forum but it's amazing how quick people are to get defensive/angry at the writer before even reading the content. EDIT: Had no idea they were on this site/the old site so I had no idea for the frame of reference. I have no information on that.

The comparison to Nolan movies is like when I was in College and dealing with film aficionados who thought they were "so cool" because they "liked Tarantino." Just because some people don't see it doesn't mean it's not happening, and often. Nolan and Tarantino "buffs" are some of the worst people to talk movies with. Right up there with the people who say Fight Club is their favorite movie.

I think often the conversation tries to be twisted in that when games are emulating movies they're "true art now" and just because he thinks some of those attempts are a chore to play or not well executed or a rehash doesn't mean he's hating an entire genre.
 
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Marble

Member
Nov 27, 2017
2,470
Stopped reading after a while. So TLoU is bad because he could predict some story related stuff? My guess is 95% of all narratives are predictive or already told. What is more important in my opinion, is the way the story is told. I prefer a well written story with good acting and loving characters over a bad written original story with surprising plot twists but dull characters.

ND games don't re-invent the wheel story wise, but they tell their stories wonderfully and besides that, they usually set new graphical benchmark and have insane amounts of small details you don't even notice when you're not paying attention. If you think these kind of games are "soulless husks that only exist to make money", then you have no clue what you're talking about.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,909
The Ocean
Boiling down something to prestige as a determining factor just means that you are very shallow in your criticism. Often it is a very specific thing that kills the enjoyment of a game for someone, as a critic you should be able to pinpoint that.
Shallow? Add bloviating and self-serving nuthob to that definition and you’ll come close to DocSeuss.

Run down Naughty Dog and prestige games and then comes out with this:

I should know. I’ve worked on several critically acclaimed video games, directed one, and am working on one that a publisher I pitched it to called “genius,” and my parents still think games are the devil’s work and will ruin my immortal soul.
Okay mr. critic, I’ll wait to hear how games considered “prestige” are different from your critically acclaimed ideas?
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,369
Finland
The friend mentioned at top of the article seems like a buffoon (and probably posts at Era). Interesting article, unfortunately I have no personal connection to most of the games mentioned. Still a good read, thanks for sharing.

I expect the discussion to get heated in this thread though.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,030
But isn't Gears 5 a "prestige" game? That's how the developers talked about the game prior to release anyway.
 

Qwark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,886
It's like a prestige movie, except it's a game.
Like oscar-bait, got it.

I disagree with a lot of this blog, but that's his opinion so it's fine. I think using such a broad label like that is a disservice and using it to rule out a lot of games is only going to take away good games. I mean, just the games used as examples are so vastly different, I hate the idea of lumping them all together just because... why, they try to tell a meaningful story?
 
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