Are they though? Coach Carter and Radio weren't nominated for Oscars.
Also, I started out as a USC film student. You won't win this pretentious argument 😅
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“I don’t think I like Prestige Games”
- Thread starter Proven
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Also, I started out as a USC film student. You won't win this pretentious argument 😅
I actually was looking forward to Uncharted 2 until I played it for the first time in 2012. People told me to ignore the first game. I came back to that one... last fall, I think? Turns out I like the second one more.
I have weird tastes!
what are we arguing about, exactly? you said that people shouldn't give my opinion some weight and said that i didn't treat walking sims fairly
all i wanted to do was say: hey, i actually made a walking sim to address the issues I had (be the change you wish to see in the world, right?), and era makes threads about dev blogs all the time, so why should I be treated any different? If I had posted it as a thread on era, wouldn't that have made it a thread some people might want to chat about?
I'm not an Important Dude. I'm not trying to say I am. I just... you made some complaints, I did my best to reply?
Some people are not thinking but going by years of post history .
Of course knowing how someone is going to make a difference looking at his work \what he is saying .
Which is funny because for a lot of games, this doesn't even matter because it's all really just a dressing around the gameplay. But when prestige games have this problem it's really damned noticeable.
then look at the like 12,000 words I wrote on the exact same blog about how fucking good a sony video game is
Perhaps this is off point, but what I want to know is, what are all these amazingly innovative, original, games that are revolutionizing the format of gameplay mechanics? Like I think we've reached a point where games generally play better than they ever have. They have been refined to standards, that most people are comfortable with. The narrative and production values being a focus I see as a natural evolution of the medium, not the only one, but a very necessary and important one that allows for accessibility and growth.
That's reaaaaallly reductive. Chris Terrio worked on both Argo and Batman V Superman. The same writers can be responsible for products of different quality - especially if they are embedded into different teams and working alongside the game's Director, Cory Barlog. If we were going for that argument, the video games "Whiplash" and "Project Snowblind" would have to get the same amount of praise for its characters and writers as God of War does, merely on the merit that at least one of the same writers worked on them who, supposedly, would have to have the same level of skill in both.
I played through all of these games - Lost Planet 3, God of War, Project Snowblind, Whiplash. Arguing for God of War having the best told story, dialogue and characters isn't especially far fetched.
And I don't even like God of War that much.
I like games that are fun to play and/or have other engaging elements. I don't care what the budget was, what development made it or what platform it's on. I didn't get into this hobby to measure e-dicks on the behalf of major corporations.
My entire point was is that it is a false equivalency. Just becuae something doesnt have consistent combat doesn't make it a walk simulator. Just like just because something involved with race doesn't make it an Oscar nom.
What you ultimately set up is a dangerous predicament where a small populace(that you're in) become gate keepers. I don't wanna see that future.
Are Nintendo games prestige titles? Like, not all of them. But something like Zelda or Xenoblade or Metroid or whatever.
I keep grinding for mine, but Era's lootbox system always gives me duplicates of the "maybe folks will reply to your controversial opinion" card.
Fucking scam is what it is.
i think days gone is the best implementation of open world design on a tight budget in the AAA space right now. so there's that. I think control is one of the most fascinating takes on the metroidvania ever. if we go into the indie space there's a shitload. hell, look at how destiny literally changed the entire face of online, service-based games and how, while none of their individual systems were unique, bungie paved the way for a lot of the online, service-based games we have right now
nintendo has never made a prestige title
if you mean "do they have prestigious series," oh yeah, buttloads
but a 'prestige game' is being used like 'prestige tv' here
The thesis needs some work; you never come up with a fitting definition for what a prestige game is, so the entire article is attacking a phantom where you can substitute any particular title you dislike while ignoring better-selling and larger-budget titles that don't fit your stated claim. I don't know how I'd define prestige game myself, but there is not a single chance in the world that titles like Call of Duty and Halo would somehow not make the list. I agree that a lot of games can feel cookie-cutter and soulless, though I would disagree with you about Red Dead Redemption (I would actually throw the entirety of Call of Duty after Modern Warfare 1 in that category, unless you're solely playing for the multiplayer).
Anyway, some good points, but I think an editor would have helped to clarify your points and come up with a more fitting thesis than "prestige games."
Anyway, some good points, but I think an editor would have helped to clarify your points and come up with a more fitting thesis than "prestige games."
None of those games are original, they all take elements from other games. Your argument is tied to how you critique execution compared to what you value, as opposed to the reductive view that these games are somehow lacking because they aren't different.
Alright, that's a fair point. Still, I'd argue that despite having a much lower budget, there's actually a lot of REALLY good character work in Lost Planet 3 that went completely ignored.
But I actually have a whole thing about last-gen games that weren't treated right. Like Kane & Lynch 2, might actually be the best video game I played in 2018? Fucking love that game? I think when it released for $60... like, yeah, that shouldn't be a $60 game, it's too short. But devoid of that context, just as a Creative Work, holy shit, people slept on Kane & Lynch 2, you know?
I wrote it in one draft and it's my blog so I don't have an editor because I can't afford to pay anyone for th at, lol. I just paid the doctor $225, ain't got the cash for an editor. My Kotaku/IGN/USgamer stuff has editors, obviously.
My article was never going "every game has to be wholly original." It was going "man, a lot of people kinda just copy other people's homework without getting why it works."
When I play Resident Evil 2 Remake, it's like, wow, those guys get horror. They get survival mechanics. Their level design is on. fuckin. point. Resident Evil 2 is a near perfect video game. Every single element of that game comes together to form this perfect whole of a thing, just an absolute, juicy delight of a game.
When I play a game like God of War, I have the Generic Loot System, the Generic Crafting System, the Generic Skill Tree System. The consideration for its design just isn't there; it's just cribbing from other games with no real understanding as to why those mechanics needed to be in its game.
Neither game is 'original,' but one game knows why it's doing what it does. The other just throws in what's popular. RE2 has the 'it factor.'
Yes, people always talk about innovation but that's hardly happened for years. If anything, refining things and improving here and there, and sometimes merging genres or ideas.
And, than, when someone tries something 'new' reactions are all over the place. We will soon have an example with death stranding for sure.
Always appreciate when someone comes down from on high to tell the rest of us that we only liked things because marketing told us they were important.
(let's ignore all the marketing bullshit around Crackdown 3 while we're at it, too)
edit - forgot to address the writers part, but Stephen King has plenty of bad books in his catalogue.
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Gameplay isn't perceived as king. Hence all the posts disagreeing with the assessment
After Metroid Other M?
That game sure tried to be prestige but dear god what a trainwreck.
But yeah they do have prestige games.
That's pretty much what mainline 3D Mario, mainline 3D Zelda, Metroid Prime are.
also Animal Crossing is prestige now too.
Basically if there's a decent marketing push it's prestige for Nintendo.
That means mainline Pokemon is too now.
That wasn't even true then.
e: I mean even in the old place gameplay wasn't perceived as king depending on the game discussed.
But your implication was that he was looking for an echo chamber. Go back to that bit.
Means GAF waa aggressively old school in approach. What were you fishing at?
I get where the author's coming from, and while I wouldn't personally agree with particulars (i.e. I liked Uncharted 2 way more than I ever did Gears of War 2, and none of the game's mechanics ever really gelled with me) I think there are valid points in the article. Hell, there was a bit of a backlash against this sort of game a few years ago, only back then everyone called them "cinematic third-person games." The basic elements seem to be the same, but that name has less value judgement attached to it than "prestige games" so it wasn't as controversial a take.
One thing I do kind of agree is a problem is that often these games are delivery methods for story more than anything else, which then makes them somewhat sterile to play. Your gameplay decisions are always in service of getting to the next section, and player expressiveness or taking joy in the mechanics aren't really part of the equation. But then, on the flipside, I'd argue that something like Bioshock doesn't quite fit, because player expressiveness does play a role. No, not the dumb "kill little sister or rescue little sister" stuff; I mean being able to mix up your powers and weapons in a way that led to greater variety than just "shoot with pistol, machine gun or shotgun." Experimenting with plasmids is still one of the things I remember most fondly about Bioshock, more than the plot twist or the unique setting. It does sort of qualify in other areas, most notably pretension in storytelling. But because of its immersive sim heritage, it doesn't feel quite right to lump it in with an Uncharted. They're trying to achieve similar things, but also not.
I do think that looking back from decades in the future, we're not really going to be talking about most of the cinematic games as groundbreaking or important, except possibly in a technical sense (the animation tweening in Last of Us 2 looks super dope, for example). It's always going to be games doing their own thing for their own sake. People will come to prize games that embrace the differences between gaming and other media. All of that is different from whether people enjoy a thing or not, though, just like most people don't just watch arthouse flicks and look down on everything else.
One thing I do kind of agree is a problem is that often these games are delivery methods for story more than anything else, which then makes them somewhat sterile to play. Your gameplay decisions are always in service of getting to the next section, and player expressiveness or taking joy in the mechanics aren't really part of the equation. But then, on the flipside, I'd argue that something like Bioshock doesn't quite fit, because player expressiveness does play a role. No, not the dumb "kill little sister or rescue little sister" stuff; I mean being able to mix up your powers and weapons in a way that led to greater variety than just "shoot with pistol, machine gun or shotgun." Experimenting with plasmids is still one of the things I remember most fondly about Bioshock, more than the plot twist or the unique setting. It does sort of qualify in other areas, most notably pretension in storytelling. But because of its immersive sim heritage, it doesn't feel quite right to lump it in with an Uncharted. They're trying to achieve similar things, but also not.
I do think that looking back from decades in the future, we're not really going to be talking about most of the cinematic games as groundbreaking or important, except possibly in a technical sense (the animation tweening in Last of Us 2 looks super dope, for example). It's always going to be games doing their own thing for their own sake. People will come to prize games that embrace the differences between gaming and other media. All of that is different from whether people enjoy a thing or not, though, just like most people don't just watch arthouse flicks and look down on everything else.
Those sure are some viewpoints...lol. Yeah you only like that thing because you were manipulated into doing so by good facial animations and sound design. Couldn't possibly be anything else haha.
Or not, if that was the case you wouldn't have had rabid discussions about the latest genre king with above average gameplay being unfairly reviewed.
You realize you're comparing different things. You're comparing a horror game and how it does survival horror to an action/adventure game and one element that isn't necessarily tied to what makes the game an action/adventure game. There are other elements in these games that are making it the defining experience that it is, particularly as an action/adventure game.
I suggest reading this article:
and just replacing TV with AAA video games. I get what OP is saying about prestige games, but holy shit they meander around and get no where.
and just replacing TV with AAA video games. I get what OP is saying about prestige games, but holy shit they meander around and get no where.
Where you even there?
The old place wasn't the hive mind you're trying to paint it as.
We had people being rabidly unhappy about latest big budget being unfairly reviewed, people who liked experimental experiences, people who would defend some fairly maligned games like Style Savvy games.
If you think that place was just the hivemind going all "gameplay is king", you haven't been following at all.
Yes for years. I recall saying UC3 was better than UC2 was blaspheme. Ask your elders and they'll tell you LastNac was crazy.
And we also had people who went into a rage when UC3 got less than a 8 once.
Because you only interacted in the UC sub community doesn't mean the others didn't exist.
e: heck if the whole gameplay is king was the mantra the place lived by, the whole Wii generation would have been fairly easier to navigate for anyone who didn't have a problem using sd systems.
Genuinely, why do you keep driving at this "doc must think gameplay and challenge are king" thing when I literally made a walking sim. that's the game. that's my debut game. i literally made a game in which you cannot fail, in which there is no challenge.
I was around, friendo. I recall the term walking simulator abused
I ain't fishing for anything, just found it weird that you'd imply Doc was looking for an echo chamber. At least that's how I read it.
People would still come at you for that "blasphemy" here, tho. That "canon" of games still applies here, people still defend those as immutable facts. Sure you'll get your cold takes here and there but shit still works the same.
You seem to be conflating the actions of a subset with the actions of many. It would be like calling this place a Sony-Only haven.
I was there too.
If you don't mind the stink you can probably find my slow decent into madness trying to find value in Other M.
Also you seem to forget that there was also a fairly large contingent of people defending the "walking simulators".
iirc i made a thread called 'appreciation for walking sims' on gaf that i spent too much time on
Depends on the timezone you were in I guess.
To this day, it's the worst expense I did.
The story is one of the least of the game's problem BUT it makes the worst Kingdom Hearts game seems like Shakespear.
I'm not actually joking, the game I played after that disaster was BirthBySleep and I still remember watching the 1st cutscene saying "this is how you do cutscenes".
This is offtopic but I think you're on point. UC3 was everything I loved about U2 taken to the next level and expanded upon.
Yeah, kinda. The level design is certainly the worst its ever been in a Metroid game, the moment to moment gameplay is competent as far as action goes but too simple to have much depth.
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