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“I don’t think I like Prestige Games”
- Thread starter Proven
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Lol.
Re2 isn't perfect. Maybe for you, but its design isn't what everybody is willing to find in a videogame. They did know what they were doing, sure. Dead Space is way better for me for example as an horror game.
And same for God of war. It isn't generic at all. You dislike its skill tree and that? The game isn't for you as RE2 wasn't for me. But man, of course they knew what they were doing when designed skill tree, loot....
Also a big lol for Nintendo games not being 'prestige'. You just pick the games you like and and ones you dislike and label like that them without any sense.
Deal with it, not every game is for everyone and no need to understand why a developer did something you would have done differently.
I didn't agree with this initially, but once the controls were patched and I replayed the game on PS4, I felt the same way. It's absolutely wonderful.
The worst part of that mess is that even if the moment to moment gameplay loop was competent (it really isn't), it's made entirely pointless because everything in the game push the player to ignore it
if people complained about walking simulators, this was the worst example of them all!
The 1st cutscene of BBS is everything about showing the friendship in the group and it's more genuine than anything in that god forsaken mess.
Like you watch the cutscene you're like "I get that these people know and love each others".
In other M, you're in a robot factory where robots that can't talk good try to tell each other boring stuffs.
And god I still remember this whole part of the marketing campaign and in the end it was all for fucking nothing.
You both know Doc didn't make the thread yeah?
It makes more sense when you replace "prestige" with "it's overrated" he's just smart enough to know how saying "it's overrated" would go. Anyone who uses it's overrated as a criticism is usually not worth paying attention too.
I think prestige is a specific game format though. There are plenty of highly rated, even overrated games out there. Like I wrote an article about Breath of the Wild and some issues I had with its open world structure (I revisited those when telling everyone how much I loved Days Gone). I think Breath of the Wild is overrated. I wouldn't call it a prestige game.
Originally I was going to call them Sad Dad Games because of John Marsden, Max Payne, Kratos, Bioshock Guy, and so on, but I felt like the new Tomb Raider games were going that route too, especially Shadow of the Tomb Raider, and that's a game where the dad is dead and the daughter is sad, so I couldn't call them sad dad games.
then criticize me instead of posting really weird shit about the old place being an echo chamber (as if I wrote this with any idea it would show up on era at all) or insisting that I'm some sort of gameplay primacy advocate
You said "but to get a whole thread seems masturbatory"...are you even paying attention to what you're saying? A blog post is not this thread and again Doc didn't make this one in case you're confused by the order of events of what came first.
I realize I should have read the blog post before but while I understand the point Doc is making at the start I think that's kinda missing the point.
Like I don't think people all that much about the story of TLoU being that original or unpredictable.
I can understand that being a downer of the enjoyment of the game that it could be predictable.
At least criticize Doc for the content inside and not just for putting to paper a blog post on that side of the internet.
Like I don't think people all that much about the story of TLoU being that original or unpredictable.
I can understand that being a downer of the enjoyment of the game that it could be predictable.
How is that Doc's fault anyway?
At least criticize Doc for the content inside and not just for putting to paper a blog post on that side of the internet.
Right, sure. That's what that is. It's not a game current that the author doesn't like, one that they describe in the blog post. And it's not like the author released, in the same blog, an article singing the praises to Days Gone. Obviously, it's console warring.
A dead dad is a sad dad.
... what?
Oh, its a DocSeuss article.
Wish OP had made that warning clear before I read so much of it realizing it was your typical bullshit.
Wish OP had made that warning clear before I read so much of it realizing it was your typical bullshit.
That's not what this is describing. This is describing stealing from other media and turning it into a video game.
Probably true. Overrated or that he just doesn't like and needs to 'downplay' those games by writing something that sounds cool and may make done sense here and there, so he can have some followers basically those that don't like those same games , that will prefer that opinion and even expand the 'arguments'.
It is a bit sad that there's so much negativity in gaming community these days, as easy as it is to choose another game when you dislike one.
And also one thing it surprises me, I've always known what games i enjoy and which ones won't, so just skip those. And if i doubt, i buy when cheap enough to try and not feel bad in case i was right. Why do these gamers that write such long articles or posts about the Gabe's they dislike keep playing them? I have no fucking clue.
If they are stealing... How come the haven't been sued yet?
People are so dramatic in this (and other) forum...
'I hate cinematic games but love Gears 5 which is a cinematic game. Maybe because it's not from Sony. I think Shadow of the Colossus is probably a masterpiece, dunno i haven't played it. Crackdown 3 is the best thing ever despite having game design that was stale 10 years ago. I also loathe Christopher Nolan because i went to film school. Or something.'
That's some next level praise, never played the game but think is masterpiece.
I'm struggling to understand Nac's logic here. If some guy who works on indie games writes a blog post and someone posts it here, that's pretty normal? Didn't Jeff Vogel's recent blog post get a thread? When I wrote an article for USGamer and it got quoted here... like, I don't understand, it feels like Nac is trying to undermine my legitimacy with every post instead of just talking about the post itself?
"doc's just a member," "doc only likes challenging games," "doc, i went to--but apparently didn't finish--film school," "doc, the old forum was an echo chamber but you won't get the support that you're apparently looking for by writing a blog post you didn't know would show up on era that you weren't looking for here"
okay???
i don't get it
I just had some thoughts and wanted to keep myself awake yesterday so I wrote them down?
I didn't want to discount a game I hadn't played, but as it was described to me, it sounds really fucking special.
Gears 5 isn't really a cinematic game, it's a bombastic third person shooter where Cole screams "now's the fun part, bitch," and punches a brumak in the head
because being cliche isn't something you can sue people over
it's just lame
I wrote the article because I wanted to stay awake yesterday. I wanted to try to understand why a certain kind of game--a very specific profile--did not appeal to me, so I tried to dig into that because I wanted to understand. So I worked it out as I wrote it down and that is my conclusion. That it blew up is, like, okay, didn't expect that.
Huh?
I mean yeah it's kinda reeeeeeeeeeeeeally not new.
The start of Jet Force Gemini on n64 is heavily inspired by Star Wars Phantom Menace, to the point that one of the early cutscene is a near replica of a sequence of the movie.
Don't be surprised if an heroic fantasy game crib the last season of Game of Throne for some visuals.
I'm not a fan of the informal tone of the writing. I get it's a piece about emotion, but it does read more as a long era post than it does any sort of argument or clear articulation of why the author doesn't like certain things. Bioshock is stupid, because it's a poorly written video game that doesn't think it's poorly written - Okay, and? There's nothing of substance to really reinforce the author's feelings here, or to sway a reader's mind on something. It's barely analytical, and feels more like the author is just talking down to me.
It's a shame, because the premise of the article could be an interesting discussion - Is there a games equivalent of "Oscar bait"? Does that push the medium of games or hold them back? Why are games not considered art unless they imitate another medium? - and some parts of it I may even agree with, but the writing here just seems all over the place and unfocused, like someone turning their rant on discord into a script for an amateurish YouTube video essay with an illustrated persona in rotating poses.
I think a lot of this thread is kind of a mess, with accusations of fanboyism and whatnot (and honestly some of that feels like projection) but you've got to expect some major blowback when you're nearly insulting the intelligence of the reader and conclude the article with a vague shrug.
It's a shame, because the premise of the article could be an interesting discussion - Is there a games equivalent of "Oscar bait"? Does that push the medium of games or hold them back? Why are games not considered art unless they imitate another medium? - and some parts of it I may even agree with, but the writing here just seems all over the place and unfocused, like someone turning their rant on discord into a script for an amateurish YouTube video essay with an illustrated persona in rotating poses.
I think a lot of this thread is kind of a mess, with accusations of fanboyism and whatnot (and honestly some of that feels like projection) but you've got to expect some major blowback when you're nearly insulting the intelligence of the reader and conclude the article with a vague shrug.
Doc I see where you're coming from. We all have preferences I suppose. Some people won't eat beef unless it's grass fed. Some folks will shit on any mainstream pizza chain. I personally enjoy most things for what they are and my world is better for it.
I loved TLOU and Uncharted 4. I love Gears 5 and really enjoy jumping around collecting orbs in Crackdown 3. I love Rambo as much as I love Clockwork Orange. I will always be sad for folks who limit their enjoyment based on rule sets they created.
I loved TLOU and Uncharted 4. I love Gears 5 and really enjoy jumping around collecting orbs in Crackdown 3. I love Rambo as much as I love Clockwork Orange. I will always be sad for folks who limit their enjoyment based on rule sets they created.
But you only label some with it, so your Prestige tag isn't really for prestige games. Gears 5 is just as much a prestige game as TLoU is. BoTW is also a prestige game, as is something like Minecraft. Prestige is just a recognition for extremely high quality or achievement. You like prestige games, you also dislike some, as it's a incredibly wide reaching definition (to the point of being kinda meaningless honestly). You just don't like that some are actually considered prestige or not, because you personally do/don't like them, or put differently you think they are overrated/underrated.
Ok. Someone explain to me what are the fundamental differences between the Gears of War series and the Uncharted series that make one a 'prestige' series and the other not. Seriously.
Because apart from writing quality, i've got nothing. I like Gears, but the writing is fucking atrocious. In everything else, it's the same. The plots mostly follows the gameplay fancies, the games follow a 3 act structure, have cutscenes that crib from cinematic language, the works. Every criticism that can be levied at Uncharted as a movie wannabe can be shot at Gears as well. And most other AAA action series btw.
So what's the deal?
Also, 90% of all stories told are just the fucking Hero's Journey again and again. Or some other old idea.There is hardly anything original anywhere, much less with the volume of entertainment being produced today. The most we can hope for most times is for somewhat fresh takes on old ideas.
Because apart from writing quality, i've got nothing. I like Gears, but the writing is fucking atrocious. In everything else, it's the same. The plots mostly follows the gameplay fancies, the games follow a 3 act structure, have cutscenes that crib from cinematic language, the works. Every criticism that can be levied at Uncharted as a movie wannabe can be shot at Gears as well. And most other AAA action series btw.
So what's the deal?
Also, 90% of all stories told are just the fucking Hero's Journey again and again. Or some other old idea.There is hardly anything original anywhere, much less with the volume of entertainment being produced today. The most we can hope for most times is for somewhat fresh takes on old ideas.
I'd argue that Minecraft is kinda of badly placed here.
It's not really a prestige game at least it didn't start as one.
It's really an indie game that went out of control.
But yeah BotW is the biggest most prestige game Nintendo ever released.
it's informal 'cause it's my blog and that's what i do, i be informal there
If you want Formal Doc, you should check out the work I do for pay with actual editors and I'm not just trying to work out The Weird Shit.
A lot of what's on my blog is intentionally exploratory and questioning; it's not meant to be something everyone should consume. Think of it a bit like a game design theory sketchbook. It's quite rough. It's a place to try to work out creative problems.
I don't do what I'm doing because of a ruleset, I looked at games I didn't like and tried to find the commonalities and see if that was a specific kind of game.
I'm not sure that I fully agree with that, but I definitely think gaming has a bit of a problem with overvaluing cinematic qualities in games. It's really obvious when you look at what tends to win at stuff like the TGAs.
Gears 5 is very much a cinematic games at times. But sure, stick with the one line in the trailer.
Fair enough. Maybe rule set wasn't the right way to describe it.
That's not a direct quote. It's my interpretation of the text.
Just sayin'
I actually like that line.
This essay is entertaining me so I'd say job accomplished.
I think that's fair, but I'd definitely consider it prestige, just the insane scale and freedom to pretty much cover damn near any genre Minecraft offers is just mind blowing imo, definitely didn't start as a prestige game though, just a great concept.
DocSeuss In my years in this community, I've been simultaneously called a Sony Fanboy, a Sony hater, a Microsoft fanboy, a Microsoft hater, an Oculus fanboy, an Oculus hater, a Nintendo fanboy, a Nintendo hater, etc. I'll cop to being a Sega fanboy, yet arlier today I saw someone claim that I wasn't a "Shenmue fan" because I hate what is going on with Shenmue III. Like 2 years ago someone told me to "stop sucking tim sweeneys dick." Today, people tell me I have a raging hateboner for Epic games.
Don't let it get to you. I do find the metanarrative people here take to try and discredit someone rather than addressing their writings is extremely annoying. I say this as someone who, no offense, doesn't agree with your piece at all, really. Different strokes.
Don't let it get to you. I do find the metanarrative people here take to try and discredit someone rather than addressing their writings is extremely annoying. I say this as someone who, no offense, doesn't agree with your piece at all, really. Different strokes.
I don't want to spoil some of the better jokes in the game.
I feel there's a distinct difference between Big Campaign Game With Cinematics (Halo, Resistance, God of War 3 or 4) and Prestige Game (Killzone wants to be one really bad, God of War 2017, all Naughty Dog games). There's a self-seriousness to it, a desire to be Like A Movie. I don't think Gears of War is Like a Movie, I think Gears of War is someone asking the question "what if resident evil 4 met halo?"
To me these are distinct flavors of games
No, you're confusing prestigious as an adjective with 'prestige game' as a concept similar to 'prestige tv.' The Simpsons is a prestigious television show, but it's not The Sopranos, which is considered Prestige Television.
Gears of War is like "every level is a combat space," and Uncharted is like "woosh, as you're playing, watch the camera swing around to show nathan in a precarious situation!" Naughty Dog really loves their crane shots. Gears of War is a very clear third person shooter.
I do agree that games should strive to be more, especially considering these AAA have shit on of cash and manpower, they could be anything. But I sure would like that this discourse was better structured. I think the first time I read this was in 2002, there is almost 20 years ago, and the argument is made the same way with different wrappers.
And in what world does that apply to something like Uncharted, but not Gears or BoTW? They take themselves all as seriously as they can, all very high quality, all have a story. Uncharted just has way better written characters (not played Gears 5 yet) and different level design to BoTW. You are just selectively labelling stuff prestige.
I love how you don't even have to hide your fanboy shit when it comes to remotely a reasonable analysis of ND's work.
It's truly fascinating. And by that I mean hilariously transparent.
Depends if you're talking about gameplay or setting/setpieces.
Gears is very much grounded and more gameplay focused than Uncharted, say it's third person shooting, massive weapon and enemy variety, for example. While it's setting and set pieces can be very much over the top.
I actually disagree with you a little there. I think Gears of War very much is like a movie, like a massive summer blockbuster. But I feel the differnce is that in the Uncharted games it's more about you watching the movie play out while Gears has you playing the movie itself. I dunno, it's hard to describe. Tbh just the simple matter than from literally the first gears game you have full control over "cinematic" moments made it stick out to me.
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