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14 Michigan State University Reps Knew About Abuser Larry Nassar And Did Nothing
- Thread starter Squarehard
- Start date
Why do you keep trying to misconstrue my words to make it sound more outlandish? If what I'm saying is wrong why do you have to make things up? He's not employed by the Olympics, but he was employed by USA gymnastics and MSU.
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Just to clarify in this case though, I'm not advocating for a permanent death penalty for the sports program.
The NCAA death penalty has almost never been permanent, and in very rare cases, runs for more than a few years.
I do feel that there at least needs to be some sort of a ban for some time, but definitely not advocating for a permanent penalty, as that really will do irreparable damage that goes beyond just changing the culture of systems in place.
The reason I feel there needs to be some sort of ban because right now there hasn't been any at all, not even something for a year. That one year will be incredibly detrimental from a financial perspective to MSU, and will certainly make a bigger point to all universities that these actions are not tolerated, especially if you're a big named program.
Just a tiny fine, a bowl ban, or loss of scholarship will not be anywhere near equivalent to that year(s) of finance they lose from it.
Again, not advocating for any permanent death penalty (or at least I'm not), but I do feel there needs to be something bigger than some of the above reprimands above.
Do you change the text colors to differentiate between people you quote?
You think things are going on there in this scale?
If you're just referring to this case, Nassar wasn't employed by Wisconsin or Ohio State.
Y'all are taking my Big 10 conspiracy comment too seriously
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Seriously? How about this one? Or this one? Or this one?
What an ignorant statement. All institutions, higher ed included, have looked the other way at sexual misconduct for way too long. I'm glad these people are getting their just rewards. That doesn't justify punishing innocent parties who had nothing to do with any of this.
Y'all need to actually look at what happened with SMU, the resulting punishment, and how it affected that school, that community, their conference, and that program if you're going to have sincere discussions about this. There's a reason why they call it the death penalty, there's a reason why they've only used it five times ever, and there's a reason why it hasn't been used on a major college program since SMU.
I understand the need to want to punish those involved, but shutting down the entire athletic department? It's hard to have good faith discussion when you show an unwillingness to understand the greater impact of doing something like that.
This pains me as a Spartan who was there while it was going on. Shut it down. This cannot be accepted.
Edit: I understand the impact of shutting down the athletic department. There are ways to minimize the impact to existing athletes and coaches. People well above the program were aware and did nothing.
Edit: I understand the impact of shutting down the athletic department. There are ways to minimize the impact to existing athletes and coaches. People well above the program were aware and did nothing.
Whoops, sorry.
So, because people were trying to take my stance to extremes to make it seem silly (some of which I suspect are college sports fans getting derfensive (I don't watch, despite many familial ties to MSU)), I'll make it clear:
His employers, MSU and USA gymastics, should be punished.
In an attempt to minimize the effect on innocent parties, MSU education would be unaffected, and all student scholarships would be honored. Student Athletes would be available to transfer to other schools without typical restrictions.
The death sentence would not be permanent. My gut said 5 years, but that yes that was just an arbitrary figure that felt right. I'm not married to it lol.
This is not okay. Step one is Lou Anna K, yesterday. I don't want to destroy my school and the tens of thousands of good students there, but this is not okay. Burn couches outside their offices until they're gone or something.
I am much more concerned with the over 150 young women and girls who actually were sexually abused over a 20 year period and the impact that has had. I am unconcerned with hypotheticals. The athletic department has demonstrated that it cares more about plowing on under the status quo than for those who trauma they use to keep the machine running. And if it decimates a community, maybe don't base the community around a toxic institution that cares not for human life.
How many women need to be abused before we shut down an athletic department? 200? A thousand? Does it have to be in over 50% of sports? And if there actually isn't a number, what does that say about how much more we care about sports than the sexual abuse of young women and girls?
What thread do you think your posting in? This is about an incident with Michigan State and their athletics department. Why do you keep trying to make this association in this thread where none exists?
Obviously, when academics are at fault, a price should be paid there too. What an odd point to try and make.
Anyway, at least in the case of academics, that's actually what a university is, you know... for.
Do you have a link to an article that might shed more light on this side of the issue? I read the wiki entry and another article, but neither talked much about how it affected the community. Mostly just about the punishment, the school, and the football program. That was just for paying players too, which I get has big competition implications, but I'd like to try remaining in a world where competition implications aren't on the same level as children being raped for 20 years.
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I agree that the impacts will be great, however, it's also dismissive to ignore the current culture we're in, the recent scandals that have come up surrounding sexual assault/rape on big name campuses across the country, and the seriously lackadaisical punishments that have proceeded.
If you want to have a sincere discussion, I feel you also need to take the context of the infractions into account as well. All of the previous death penalties have some in common. Bribes and money. What have the recent scandals have in common? Sexual assault, rape, and pedophilia. I personally don't see these things as the same, and nor should they be. What kind of message does this send out? It's okay to punish an establishment if they're working the system by offering bribes/cheating, but it's not okay to punish them if they're protecting rapists/pedophiles? So where are those lines drawn?
Also, please don't make assumptions that I am not aware of what the death penalty is, or aware of previous cases. If you aren't sure if I'm aware, just ask me. Don't insinuate someone else' ignorance because of it.
I agree. When a college professor sexually assaults a student, the professor is typically fired. And if that professor's chair knew about the harassment and did nothing about it (a depressingly common occurrence), the chair is typically fired or demoted. What doesn't happen on the academic side of the house is that we don't dissolve the entire Philosophy department if a Philosophy professor assaults somebody, and we don't shut down the Political Science department if the chair of the Philosophy department was asleep at the switch. Instead, we punish the guilty parties and move on. We should deal with athletic units the same way.
Also, you were the one who asked for scandals related to sexual harassment/assault being swept under the rug in the name of academics. Don't ask for examples if you don't want them.
What if the psych teacher assaults many kids over 20 years, and professors of other departments hide the assault? What if the authority of several departments is told and still refuses to take action.
Your attempt to downplay the range of what happened by saying it was 1 person in 1 department seems weird, and isn't my impression of what happened here at all.
Also, sports aren't even the primary function of the institution, they are an extra curricular.
If the teacher who ran the school play was discovered to have raped theater students, choir students, and band students for 20 years, I wouldn't be up in arms if there wasn't a school play for 5 years.
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I'm not downplaying anything. Anybody who covers for sexual assault needs to be fired and, where appropriate, face prosecution. Don't start with this "downplaying" shit.
In your example, each and every one of the professors in other departments should be terminated. And each of those chairs should be fired. But nobody -- and I mean literally nobody -- would be arguing for closing down the Department of Psychology for the next five years. We would be hiring new people to replace the folks we just fired, and we would be keeping students on track for graduation.
Department of psych isnt an extra curricular activity for students to engage in. It's a core of the university as an institution of education.
And equating what Nassar did to 1 professor assaulting 1 student is downplaying, like it or not.
Agreed that keeping the students on track for their education amd graduation is key.
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Doesn't matter. The principle is the same. When somebody does something bad, you punish that person, not some innocent third party.
Uh, one professor sexually assaulting one student is a pretty big fucking deal. I'm not sure I'm the one doing the downplaying here.
Again, that doesn't punish the institution, which I think deserves a punishment. Feel free to disagree that the institution deserves punishment, but as Nassars employer I think they failed in their obligation to protect students, and should therefore be punished.
Compared to what Nassar did, it is downplaying. Doesn't say it's not a huge deal (a million is a big number but is still a downplay of 140 million). But 1/140th of a huge deal as nassar in terms of victims. For each victim it can be devastating. Nassar was serial over 20 years, 140 girls. Equating that to your analogy of 1 student 1 time is downplaying and not accurate to what happened.
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Then please be consistent and agree that we should punish the Department of Political Science for sexual misconduct in the Department of Philosophy. Because we're punishing the institution, after all.
I'll be consistent and say an extracurricular department can lose their privilege of playing.
But yes, if the philosophy teacher raped 140 kids over 20 years, and was aided by others in the department not taking action after being reported to, maybe the department at that school should be shut down 5 years. I don't agree those situations are equal to Nassar, as one is extracurricular and one is not, but frankly I'd still be on the side for the department death penalty there.
Reasons like this are why I despise the self policing leeway we give universities.
These are populations of legal adults and the mentality that they are somehow outside the traditional just system leads to crap like this.
These are populations of legal adults and the mentality that they are somehow outside the traditional just system leads to crap like this.
Who anywhere is arguing that that universities are outside the traditional justice system?
Since 2011, some very well intentioned guidance from the Obama administration enabled college campuses to hold administrative hearings on sexual assault in a civil capacity. This had the unfortunate and unintended result of supplanting criminal investigations and schools began to suppress real statistics because finding was on the line.
A lot of people in University started to believe that reporting criminal activity to their employer, there University, was the proper thing to do.
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Well I mean, they also had Penn St under their watch.
Maybe not a terrible idea....
You should probably read the thread you're in and the posts you're replying to. Your original point that it makes no sense to shut down history when gymnastics hides abuse, therefore it makes no sense to shut anything else down is a bad take. Athletics, and our zealous attitude towards them, are often central to these types of institution-wide cover-ups of abuse. It was true at Penn State, and it appears to be the case again at MSU.
Nationally, there is a problem with the way we overlook abuse in the name of athletics. Pro sports are probably a lost cause because they are purely a business, but we should be holding universities to a higher standard. If we can't even admit that we have an athletics problem, nothing will change.
If we want to do everything we can to prevent another Nasser and another Sandusky from happening again, universities will need a wake up call and a message will need to be sent.
Attitudes like yours that downplay the severity of the issue and argue for the same ineffective response (fire a few people, wait a few years, pretend it never happened) are part of the problem.
MSU board of trustees gives vote of support to Lou Anna Simon
More in the link below
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/...rt-remain-president-michigan-state-university
More in the link below
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/...rt-remain-president-michigan-state-university
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Absolutely shameful. They gain nothing from keeping her except for more bad press. She either a) knew about it and did nothing or b) had no idea this was going on. So she should either a) be in prison or b) fired for total incompetence.
Now is the time for students to riot. Wish I still lived there, would be burning couches in the streets.