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Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,864
This game is almost a deep cut considering it released in early 2010 so I think its inclusion in professional publications of best games of the decade will never happen. But damn, that remake was how a remake should be done.

Complete overhaul of the game, a contender of the best JP-EN localization ever made, a lot more content, new recuitable characters, INSANE quality of life features that even Fire Emblem has taken note of such as the ability to rewind turns, the ability to go back to previous chapters and take different routes without having to replay the entire game, the absolutely *excellent* Warren Report chronicling everything about the game to the point that each music track of the music player has liner notes from composers telling you what they had in mind when creating this piece.

The music itself was redone and really gave more life to its excellent soundtrack. Hitoshi Sakimoto and Masaharu Iwata even came back to re-arrange it



(the only good music quality I could find on youtube)

This game was a labour of love from start to finish in order to honour this game. Square-Enix didn't even want to greenlit this but Hiroshi Minagawa not only pushed to make a remake of this game (he had worked on the original), he also made a point of reuniting the original staff from Quest to work on this remake despite them being scattered around. Minagawa even got Matsuno to return working on it despite having resigned from the company during the development of Final Fantasy XII. That is dedication.

They even included a super cool premium edition with an art-book, a mini soundtrack, an instruction manual and a 50% voucher for Vagrant Story on PSN. I had that one and I really loved the presentation though I wish it was the full soundtrack

1920x-1


Things were in a bit of disarray after FFXII, but they all came back to deliver another excellent product to prove how they still have it and are some of the best developers Square-Enix ever had. Hell, some of the staff working on Tactics Ogre ended up being part of the task force to salvage Final Fantasy XIV alongside Naoki Yoshida. It's by far the most well-done remake Square has ever done for one of their game. It blended the old with the new, it kept the original essence of the game while elevating it even further with what could work.

All of this wouldn't work if the original game wasn't also a thing of beauty already. The localization succeeded so much because the script was already a huge heavy-hitter, and personally one of the most biting story in the entire landscape of gaming out of what I have played. Choices were meaningful and legiitimately made me pause for extended periods of time to make my decision, Matsuno's story took no shortcuts to display the horror of wars and already displayed his penchant to show what it is to be on the wrong side of History. What History means in the first place. Banri Oda, one of the writers and the lore supervisor of FFXIV said that Tactics Ogre was the main influence for displaying a political landscape in FFXIV. Tactics Ogre is still a huge point of influence for game writers to make stories tackling themes with more bite than "war bad" and thinking in systemic terms rather than simply moral ones.


hzZ2fKv.png


PaLxQtr.png


fQ6GezA.png


fpgXXZR.png


Is there a chapter name that goes as hard as this one?

WpcYx1t.png



The designs are also great, they hired Tsubasa Masao, who is known for his work on Zone of the Enders 2 at Konami (he also did Metal Gear Acid) and his style is very good and also a bit similar to Akihiko Yoshida. I love the way he draws clothes from different materials. It might be medieval fantasy but characters are still very well dressed. Even armour design is excellent. I especially love the oversized shoulder armors and the cloth that they put in front of their chestplate. They all have style, it's not just regular medieval armour.

DurzFhs.png

hocNcKm.png

IzrYQIc.png

FlUdHdK.png

1H60xjQ.png


Of course not everything was perfect. The lack of a fitting room made it overly tedious to know what equipment was better to buy when you could not compare your current equipment (FFT had it), and crafting was harsh. The AI had some bad ideas sometimes especially in missions where the goal was to kill the leader (you just had to zerg rush), also rescuing AI partners was so stupid because they would rush head-first into the battlefield before you could get to them.

But overall it's such a great and special experience that it is easily forgiven (ok except the lack of a fitting room).

BONUS:

I have a Switch that can play homebrew and emulators so I popped Tactics Ogre on there to see how it would look with some tweaking in the PPSSPP emulator. It actually looks real good, especially with the zoomed-out camera now being much easier to see on a bigger screen. Of course it's not integer scaling because the PSP resolution was 272 pixels but if Square-Enix made a port with wider (narrower?) screen resolution it would be perfect. As it stands it looks extremely good to me

uclqtIt.png

1f9zy3P.png
WFz9ql4.png


direct screens from switch screenshot feature

I3iP7r4.png

aWUBRSR.png

LSBMh2y.png


Hope you enjoyed it
 

Patryn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,831
The game originally came out in 1995 for the Super Famicom, and first came to the west in 1997 on the PSX.

Just wanted to clarify that.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,404
Played it on Vita TV a few years back and loved it. One of the best games ever made, without question.

Bring back Tactics Ogre.


Lovely OP.
 

TeenageFBI

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,239
I love nearly everything about this game. The aesthetic is so perfect. ..but the occasional mission objectives based around protecting suicidal NPCs got me to drop the game only a few hours in.
 

OskarXCI

Member
Nov 11, 2018
1,228
They really really need to rerelease this and FFT.

SE are already doing PSP remasters with Star Ocean: First Departure.
 

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,404
SE remastered the Last Remnant. That proved they'll remaster anything.

It is only a matter of time.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,528
Couldn't agree more, Dreamboum. It's one of -- if not the -- greatest games of all time, and that's despite some rather unfortunate mechanical flaws (particularly with regard to class design / levels & crafting).

Pound for pound, its writing handily exceeds even FFT's IMO, because it's content to keep the focus firmly on humanity, even anchoring its supernatural elements to human actors, rather than demonic ones. Where Ramza manages to abscond from and avoid the thick of war, combating the supernatural from obscurity, Denam must wade through it, no matter his moral convictions.
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
Couldn't agree more, Dreamboum. It's one of -- if not the -- greatest games of all time, and that's despite some rather unfortunate mechanical flaws (particularly with regard to class design / levels & crafting).

Pound for pound, its writing handily exceeds even FFT's IMO, because it's content to keep the focus firmly on humanity, even anchoring its supernatural elements to human actors, rather than demonic ones. Where Ramza manages to abscond from and avoid the thick of war, combating the supernatural from obscurity, Denam must wade through it, no matter his moral convictions.
Delita's half in FFT was supposed to be more reminiscent of Tactics Ogre, but they scrapped his scenarios early on because of development constraints.
 
OP
OP
Dreamboum

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,864
Couldn't agree more, Dreamboum. It's one of -- if not the -- greatest games of all time, and that's despite some rather unfortunate mechanical flaws (particularly with regard to class design / levels & crafting).

Pound for pound, its writing handily exceeds even FFT's IMO, because it's content to keep the focus firmly on humanity, even anchoring its supernatural elements to human actors, rather than demonic ones. Where Ramza manages to abscond from and avoid the thick of war, combating the supernatural from obscurity, Denam must wade through it, no matter his moral convictions.
I agree, however FFT has the advantage of going hard on the drama at a personal level especially between Ramza and Delita's paths. FFT is better acted, especially with the help of its tremendous soundtrack.

But either of them is pretty much pure bliss. It's hard to get any better than those two
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,528
Delita's half in FFT was supposed to be more reminiscent of Tactics Ogre, but they scrapped his scenarios early on because of development constraints.

Yeah. War of the Lions attempted to flesh that idea out slightly more, but while its added scenarios with Delita and Ovelia were appreciated, the new battles themselves were kind of shallow. I can see why Delita's scenarios may have been scrapped -- the gameplay just isn't engaging without a squad like Ramza has.

I agree, however FFT has the advantage of going hard on the drama at a personal level especially between Ramza and Delita's paths. FFT is better acted, especially with the help of its tremendous soundtrack.

But either of them is pretty much pure bliss. It's hard to get any better than those two

FFT definitely has the advantage in drama. The dynamic between Denam, Vyce, and Catiua isn't as affecting or convincing as the one between Ramza and Delita. It's a weakness in TO's writing.

Vyce was too malleable a character between routes, while Catiua's actions came from a place of plot necessity rather than believability.

(Actually, she set the stage for Matsuno's fairly weak record with female plot-driving characters in general. FFT later had a revolving door of damsels and/or fridged women to motivate its male leads -- Tietra and Milleuda in Chapter 1, then Ovelia in Chapter 2, then Alma -- while Vagrant Story had Merlose in captivity for the whole game. FFXII finally ended this streak with Ashe. At least his secondary female characters have often been great.)
 

Xero grimlock

Member
Dec 1, 2017
2,946
really loved the game. the later monsters kinda became more damage sponges which became frustrating. the writing was phenomenal though.
 

Sumio Mondo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,930
United Kingdom
Yeah. War of the Lions attempted to flesh that idea out slightly more, but while its added scenarios with Delita and Ovelia were appreciated, the new battles themselves were kind of shallow. I can see why Delita's scenarios may have been scrapped -- the gameplay just isn't engaging without a squad like Ramza has.



FFT definitely has the advantage in drama. The dynamic between Denam, Vyce, and Catiua isn't as affecting or convincing as the one between Ramza and Delita. It's a weakness in TO's writing.

Vyce was too malleable a character between routes, while Catiua's actions came from a place of plot necessity rather than believability.

(Actually, she set the stage for Matsuno's fairly weak record with female plot-driving characters in general. FFT later had a revolving door of damsels and/or fridged women to motivate its male leads -- Tietra and Milleuda in Chapter 1, then Ovelia in Chapter 2, then Alma -- while Vagrant Story had Merlose in captivity for the whole game. FFXII finally ended this streak with Ashe. At least his secondary female characters have often been great.)

Agrias? She was badass.
 

Sumio Mondo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,930
United Kingdom
And front mission. Not the bullshit we got on 360

Or the bullshit we got this gen either! Front Mission Collection & Ogre Game Collection; if Mana and SaGa can get the treatment, then so should Front Mission and Ogre Saga.

Like I said, his secondary female characters are better. Agrias, Ravness, the Phoraena sisters, etc. But sadly none of them are plot relevant beyond their short pre-recruitment segments due to potential permadeath.

Eh, Agrias was in FFT enough to make an impression more than the rest you mentioned. She was against Gaffgarion from the start and was always close to Ovelia (even handing the knife to her in Chapter 4 which led to the ending that Delita ultimately gets).
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,528
Eh, Agrias was in FFT enough to make an impression more than the rest you mentioned. She was against Gaffgarion from the start and was always close to Ovelia (even handing the knife to her in Chapter 4 which led to the ending that Delita ultimately gets).

Agrias is a great character; she absolutely makes an impression. She's just a secondary one who isn't a driving force in the plot. She has no presence after she's recruited, outside of a couple brief side quest scenes introduced in WotL, because the game has to account for her potential gameplay death.

It's actually something I wish Matsuno's games did differently. Characters' plot presence doesn't have to be hindered after joining because of mechanical permadeath. Fire Emblem solved this long ago by having important characters retreat and become unusable due to wounds, while still maintaining their role in the story. (And really, for Tactics Ogre's remake, permadeath is a stupid thing to account for anyway: it's virtually impossible to have happen with the heart system, unless you're purposefully skill scavenging.)

Didn't they lose the source code?

...To a remaster made in the last decade? No. That was mainly something that occasionally happened ~20+ years ago, when things were physically misplaced because future proofing wasn't given thought.
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,755
I just couldn't fall in love with this game. I got to near the final chapter, but the characters didn't grab me. I want to go back sometime and replay.
 

medyej

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,436
It's such an amazing release. It's one of those things that one could just be incredulous about it actually all coming together and being reality.
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
(Actually, she set the stage for Matsuno's fairly weak record with female plot-driving characters in general. FFT later had a revolving door of damsels and/or fridged women to motivate its male leads -- Tietra and Milleuda in Chapter 1, then Ovelia in Chapter 2, then Alma -- while Vagrant Story had Merlose in captivity for the whole game. FFXII finally ended this streak with Ashe. At least his secondary female characters have often been great.)
Interestingly Vagrant Story was originally meant to have a two-player mode. Merlose was probably the second playable character, which would explain why she appears prominently on the game's cover art.

(Note that the first sentence is fact, but the second is conjecture.)
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,528
Interestingly Vagrant Story was originally meant to have a two-player mode. Merlose was probably the second playable character, which would explain why she appears prominently on the game's cover art.

(Note that the first sentence is fact, but the second is conjecture.)

That would have been rad. Vagrant Story's a game that would benefit incalculably from a remaster.
 

Aexact

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,262
Choices were meaningful and legiitimately made me pause for extended periods of time to make my decision, Matsuno's story took no shortcuts to display the horror of wars and already displayed his penchant to show what it is to be on the wrong side of History. What History means in the first place.
Man the dialogue in those screenshots is so sharp.

Decisions on video games has always been an abstract concept to me because of how it's attached to the game element. Like, I'll pick whatever option I think gives me points. It's not in the spirit of role playing but it's inefficient!

I always try to do the "good" route on my first playthrough because it's usually pretty clear what the good route is. I usually associate that concept with Law. But Jesus. I'll always remember pausing at the decision that's supposed to put you on the Tactics Ogre LUCT Law path. Chaos was actually the "good" path but because of my binary "pursue the intended path" blinders, my first playthrough of LUCT was pretty metal.
 

Belker

Member
Oct 27, 2017
725
I've never played this. I have virtually no desire to. However, it's the one videogame title that I think about now and then, out of the blue, simply because of the name. It think the notion of clinging together is quite beautiful.
 

Varth

Banned
Mar 9, 2018
174
This game is almost a deep cut considering it released in early 2010 so I think its inclusion in professional publications of best games of the decade will never happen. But damn, that remake was how a remake should be done.

Complete overhaul of the game, a contender of the best JP-EN localization ever made, a lot more content, new recuitable characters, INSANE quality of life features that even Fire Emblem has taken note of such as the ability to rewind turns, the ability to go back to previous chapters and take different routes without having to replay the entire game, the absolutely *excellent* Warren Report chronicling everything about the game to the point that each music track of the music player has liner notes from composers telling you what they had in mind when creating this piece.

The music itself was redone and really gave more life to its excellent soundtrack. Hitoshi Sakimoto and Masaharu Iwata even came back to re-arrange it



(the only good music quality I could find on youtube)

This game was a labour of love from start to finish in order to honour this game. Square-Enix didn't even want to greenlit this but Hiroshi Minagawa not only pushed to make a remake of this game (he had worked on the original), he also made a point of reuniting the original staff from Quest to work on this remake despite them being scattered around. Minagawa even got Matsuno to return working on it despite having resigned from the company during the development of Final Fantasy XII. That is dedication.

They even included a super cool premium edition with an art-book, a mini soundtrack, an instruction manual and a 50% voucher for Vagrant Story on PSN. I had that one and I really loved the presentation though I wish it was the full soundtrack

1920x-1


Things were in a bit of disarray after FFXII, but they all came back to deliver another excellent product to prove how they still have it and are some of the best developers Square-Enix ever had. Hell, some of the staff working on Tactics Ogre ended up being part of the task force to salvage Final Fantasy XIV alongside Naoki Yoshida. It's by far the most well-done remake Square has ever done for one of their game. It blended the old with the new, it kept the original essence of the game while elevating it even further with what could work.

All of this wouldn't work if the original game wasn't also a thing of beauty already. The localization succeeded so much because the script was already a huge heavy-hitter, and personally one of the most biting story in the entire landscape of gaming out of what I have played. Choices were meaningful and legiitimately made me pause for extended periods of time to make my decision, Matsuno's story took no shortcuts to display the horror of wars and already displayed his penchant to show what it is to be on the wrong side of History. What History means in the first place. Banri Oda, one of the writers and the lore supervisor of FFXIV said that Tactics Ogre was the main influence for displaying a political landscape in FFXIV. Tactics Ogre is still a huge point of influence for game writers to make stories tackling themes with more bite than "war bad" and thinking in systemic terms rather than simply moral ones.


hzZ2fKv.png


PaLxQtr.png


fQ6GezA.png


fpgXXZR.png


Is there a chapter name that goes as hard as this one?

WpcYx1t.png



The designs are also great, they hired Tsubasa Masao, who is known for his work on Zone of the Enders 2 at Konami (he also did Metal Gear Acid) and his style is very good and also a bit similar to Akihiko Yoshida. I love the way he draws clothes from different materials. It might be medieval fantasy but characters are still very well dressed. Even armour design is excellent. I especially love the oversized shoulder armors and the cloth that they put in front of their chestplate. They all have style, it's not just regular medieval armour.

DurzFhs.png

hocNcKm.png

IzrYQIc.png

FlUdHdK.png

1H60xjQ.png


Of course not everything was perfect. The lack of a fitting room made it overly tedious to know what equipment was better to buy when you could not compare your current equipment (FFT had it), and crafting was harsh. The AI had some bad ideas sometimes especially in missions where the goal was to kill the leader (you just had to zerg rush), also rescuing AI partners was so stupid because they would rush head-first into the battlefield before you could get to them.

But overall it's such a great and special experience that it is easily forgiven (ok except the lack of a fitting room).

BONUS:

I have a Switch that can play homebrew and emulators so I popped Tactics Ogre on there to see how it would look with some tweaking in the PPSSPP emulator. It actually looks real good, especially with the zoomed-out camera now being much easier to see on a bigger screen. Of course it's not integer scaling because the PSP resolution was 272 pixels but if Square-Enix made a port with wider (narrower?) screen resolution it would be perfect. As it stands it looks extremely good to me

uclqtIt.png

1f9zy3P.png
WFz9ql4.png


direct screens from switch screenshot feature

I3iP7r4.png

aWUBRSR.png

LSBMh2y.png


Hope you enjoyed it

I endorse the fuck out of this post. Rerelase this gem.