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187 Republicans just voted on the record for racial, religious, ethnic, and national persecution (see staff post)

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,792
Sydney
Before I respond, what do you disagree with me on specifically?

That they want to send them back? Are you saying that the US would rather keep them and kill them than send them home?
Trump told four citizens this week to GTFO of the country if that isn't an indication to you he and the GOP don't just want the undocumenteds removed they want an ethnic cleansing I don't know what to tell you.
 

Vas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,835
You know what's funny about Trump's flaccid angle of "Haha, all according to plan! Now the dems can't escape being tied to the socialists thanks to my fake racist attacks!" if that really was a 4D chess move... he wouldn't have admitted to it immediately and showing all his cards. It's beyond idiotic that he thought people would believe. People might claim they believe it, but they don't.
 
Nov 2, 2017
521
Before I respond, what do you disagree with me on specifically?

That they want to send them back? Are you saying that the US would rather keep them and kill them than send them home?
Trump would. 100% percent, that's what Trump wants.

Remember, the reason for the awful conditions of the camps and the large number of people they're holding has nothing to do with the law. None of this is required. They could change their minds tomorrow and go back to how things were being done and things would be fine. The Cruelty Is The Point. They've openly talked about how there needs to be a message sent to make sure people don't even try to come here, they have no intention of just turning people around and sending them back on their way.
 

TheMango55

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,554
Trump told four citizens this week to GTFO of the country if that isn't an indication to you he and the GOP don't just want the undocumenteds removed they want an ethnic cleansing I don't know what to tell you.
So you agree with me when I said they want to deport everyone? What’s the argument?
 

Sawneeks

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,444
I think it's pretty clear that the GOP just wants to deport everyone (or at least wants the base to believe they want that, the actual leaders of the GOP still needs cheap labor).

They want to send everyone relatively safely back to their country of origin and don't care what happens to them after that.

The camps at the border are concentration camps but I don't think they will ever become death camps.
Don't think the GOP cares about them being sent back 'safely' or not. People are being kept in overcrowded cages, no basic hygiene, lack of medical care, and more. That isn't safe at all.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,792
Sydney
Trump has no idea what he’s talking about. He doesn’t understand citizenship.

Like are we talking about trumps tweets? Or are we talking about what’s going to happen with the concentration camps?
Trump and the GOP and their supporters this week have overwhelmingly endorsed non white people leaving the country against their will.

The only way to achieve this will be ethnic cleansing.
 

TheMango55

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,554
. They've openly talked about how there needs to be a message sent to make sure people don't even try to come here, they have no intention of just turning people around and sending them back on their way.
They don’t do that because they can’t. If they could turn people back then they would. The easiest way to get people to leave is for them to say they want to leave and give up asylum claims. And so they keep the conditions terrible.

I think somehow people have the idea that I’m defending or “stanning” for the concentration camps when I believe they are horrific and need to be closed. But that does not mean I think they are Aushwitz or ever will be.
 

BrickArts295

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,597
Makes my wonder how many of them believe in him vs just voting for him because of the party.
Either way, they are still trash.
 
Nov 2, 2017
521
They don’t do that because they can’t. If they could turn people back then they would. The easiest way to get people to leave is for them to say they want to leave and give up asylum claims. And so they keep the conditions terrible.

I think somehow people have the idea that I’m defending or “stanning” for the concentration camps when I believe they are horrific and need to be closed. But that does be mean I think they are Aushwitz or ever will be.
I know they can't, but even if they could, that's not their interest. The poor conditions serves the purpose of trying to make people give up asylum claims but there's absolutely behavior targeted as a deterrent to keep people from coming in the first place. It's literally the heart of the separation policy, which was intended as a message to people who might come, hey, if you do, we might split you from your kid and you might not get them back.

They're not extermination camps right now, but you would be a fool to think that's because Trump has no desire for it.
 

ishan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,192
Holy hell at some of the posts in here .... you can’t seriously be implying that secret extermination’s is the aim in the camps .... right some of you need to step back from your keyboards ..


On Topic this is good gets ppl on record on the vote and can be used against them as appropriate in the 2020 elections
 

Hierophant

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,642
Sydney
Holy hell at some of the posts in here .... you can’t seriously be implying that secret extermination’s is the aim in the camps .... right some of you need to step back from your keyboards ..


On Topic this is good gets ppl on record on the vote and can be used against them as appropriate in the 2020 elections
Deliberate negligence is murder and the deliberate negligence of thousands of people is extermination.

Their base doesn't care, this probably helps the GOP members in office.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,792
Sydney
Holy hell at some of the posts in here .... you can’t seriously be implying that secret extermination’s is the aim in the camps .... right some of you need to step back from your keyboards ..

On Topic this is good gets ppl on record on the vote and can be used against them as appropriate in the 2020 elections
People have already died in them, but no I wouldn't argue that's their purpose.

What I'm asking is, what precisely about the political vision Trump and the GOP are laying out is going to stop them in the future?
 

Tya

Member
Oct 30, 2017
866
As much as people don't want to admit it, we have to work with the other party to get things done. To get thing done, you must be realistic and rational. Saying the holocaust is here is far from being realistic and rational. That is all.
Republicans have made it extremely clear they are the enemies of democracy. There is no working with them. Do you seriously think that if a Democrat wins the next election Republicans will do anything other than obstruct just like they did under Obama?
 

KtSlime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,308
Tokyo
dont worry, we just compromised with a bill that gives them money to expand the camps, while at the same time not promising any improvements to the conditions of those in them

wait a second, what does 'compromise' mean again?
With how Democrats often use the word, I think it means to vote however the Republicans want them to vote.
 

ishan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,192
People have already died in them, but no I wouldn't argue that's their purpose.

What I'm asking is, what precisely about the political vision Trump and the GOP are laying out is going to stop them in the future?
Stop the negligence and horrible conditions ? In my opinion sadly either him getting voted out or some sort of court thing .

Abuse sadly often is a slope and it gets really bad before people step in (courts/media coverage).

A concerted constant effort of congress visiting and inspecting might help .

If he wins it’s going to take worse because he’ll keep up the current conditions saying he has a mandate for what he’s doing . They’ve essentially laid out that if you come we’re going to put you in these centers and until you return and a significant part of the country is willing to turn a blind eye to it .

What solutions are there ? There can be some such as increasing asylum I nflow at legal ports drastically while allowing stricter rules on illegal (dems win on humanitarian republicans win on law and order and it negates their do it legal argument) . Some on this very forum will find this anathema they will argue anyone should be let in . That becomes a very hard position to defend in sort of any meaningful policy in today’s world . Also something like that being considered is an issue as the parties and sides are too entrenched for now ... trump doesn’t help one bit of course .

Having said that willful murder/extermination/ethnic cleaning are words I definitely would not use as some in this thread are doing .
 

Kyuuji

Member
Nov 8, 2017
6,787
If they can't even put together enough of a spine to call out a couple of tweets how (more when) do you expect they will to stop this growing snowball of an issue, if they haven't already?

The stuff that is happening within America is horrific and concerning. I wouldn't invoke the Holocaust as the OP has but they're within their right to, as are the numerous other Jewish people that feel comfortable doing so.

We're so used to racist sentiment and divide that people are starting to ignore the deliberate move to action. It's not even a steady escalation. I'd rather err on the side of caution and have people preemptively using strong language to call things out then shuffle feet and umm and ahh over the specific definitions of things.

We should be able to condemn what's going on without getting lost in concern about how harsh those condemnations are.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,792
Sydney
Stop the negligence and horrible conditions ? In my opinion sadly either him getting voted out or some sort of court thing .

Abuse sadly often is a slope and it gets really bad before people step in (courts/media coverage).

A concerted constant effort of congress visiting and inspecting might help .

If he wins it’s going to take worse because he’ll keep up the current conditions saying he has a mandate for what he’s doing . They’ve essentially laid out that if you come we’re going to put you in these centers and until you return and a significant part of the country is willing to turn a blind eye to it .

What solutions are there ? There can be some such as increasing asylum I nflow at legal ports drastically while allowing stricter rules on illegal (dems win on humanitarian republicans win on law and order and it negates their do it legal argument) . Some on this very forum will find this anathema they will argue anyone should be let in . That becomes a very hard position to defend in sort of any meaningful policy in today’s world . Also something like that being considered is an issue as the parties and sides are too entrenched for now ... trump doesn’t help one bit of course .

Having said that willful murder/extermination/ethnic cleaning are words I definitely would not use as some in this thread are doing .
I look at this as a problem with potency far beyond Trump to be honest. At some point, either next year or in 2024, he will no longer be President.

However the political vision he's laid out here won't go away. His comments this past weekend have been enormously popular with Republican voters, and the party. They've really been building for decades, and don't show any sign of going away even if he's defeated.

Which is why I get very worried, the ideological and a lot of the structural framework work for detaining and abusing people is already in place. The overton window in conservative American politics is no longer simply there needs to be a process for dealing with undocumented or "illegal" immigrants, but now it's about how birthright citizenship needs to be ended, and how people of colour who criticise America should get out, even if their families have been US citizens for generations.

If climate change isn't combated in any meaningful way, the tension is only going to get heightened. Rising sea levels will increase the competition for resources and arable land both between the US and Central and South America, and within the US itself.

Already a pretty unequal country in terms of wealth, it's not hard to imagine future authoritarians using these crisis to justify going even further, and it's not hard to imagine who they'll pick first to target.
 

KtSlime

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,308
Tokyo
What do you disagree with, perhaps I can clarify.
What I don't understand, wouldn't it be cheaper to just send them back as soon as they are captured than to keep them locked up in cages? What's the percentage of people who have successfully been returned to their original country, and how long is the average amount of time it takes?
 

Toddhunter

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,860
What I don't understand, wouldn't it be cheaper to just send them back as soon as they are captured than to keep them locked up in cages? What's the percentage of people who have successfully been returned to their original country, and how long is the average amount of time it takes?
Think it through:

“Ok where are you from, we need to send you back”
“...”
“Damn foiled again!”
 

Spenny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,718
Los Angeles
What I don't understand, wouldn't it be cheaper to just send them back as soon as they are captured than to keep them locked up in cages? What's the percentage of people who have successfully been returned to their original country, and how long is the average amount of time it takes?
These centers are for profit. it’s just like prison. Keep em full and rake in the cash.
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,085
Western Canada
It's nice to see we got plenty of people in this thread willing to tell Jews how they're allowed to feel and talk about the Holocaust.

And by nice I mean terrible.
 

Redcrayon

Zoinks!
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
6,158
UK
Official Staff Communication
This thread is generating a high number of reports. It is temporarily locked while we assess its contents
 
Discussion Guidelines

JayC3

bork bork
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
1,892
Official Staff Communication
This news deserves your undivided attention. We have removed the mention of the Holocaust from the OP -- the analogy is unnecessary and has completely derailed the thread.

Please return to the topic of this vote.

Attempts to keep the derail going will be moderated.
 

Jam_Sandwich

Member
Oct 30, 2017
864
America has enough land to easily support double its population
What's with this closed minds attitude from the Republicans
 

The Kree

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,833
User Banned (3 Days): Ignoring staff post; thread derail, Accumulated infractions.
Me not agreeing the holocaust is here = scary I'm an officer. I don't see the correlation but you are entitled to your baffling opinion.



You are right I suppose I shouldn't assume Jewish people would be offended. I guess I just think people are delusional if they truely believe America would replicate the holocaust, one of the biggest genocides in modern times.
Hey, everybody, look - a cop who doesn't want you to have your guard up about minority persecution - the exact thing he gets paid to do.
 

Mr. X

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,158
Maybe worth a threadmark


Trump sewed up the Republican nomination on May 25, 2016. The Republican House made an addendum to their rules of conduct stipulating you can’t call the president racist, say he told a racist lie, or made a slur ... on June 9, 2016. I’d say that’s an admission. And a story.


A lot was added in 2016, holy hell
 

clevbrowns95

Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,758
He dropped 10 points among Independents to 30%. That is catastrophic.
Dear god, I really hope he pulls something like this before the election. We are too far away for it to have an effect on that, unless the Democratic candidate is smart and keeps on brining it up, along with Charlottesville, birthism, Central Park 5, etc.
 

zethren

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
1,146
New Reuters poll says Republican support for Trump rose after the racist tweets. Down among independents and slightly among Democrats.


Overall at 41%.
He's losing support where it matters most. His base will not be enough in 2020, and that's all he seems to care about appealing to. Good. Let him dig his own loss.