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20 Years Later, Does Super Mario 64 Hold Up?
- Thread starter OverdriveOtaku
- Start date
Sure. It was absolutely mind-blowing the first time I played it. A feeling that has yet to be matched.
However, it's my least-favorite 3D Mario title aside from Sunshine.
However, it's my least-favorite 3D Mario title aside from Sunshine.
Yes, sure it can get glitchy at times and mario can slide when you don't want him to, but i i've played this game 4 times now and still enjoy it. This game will stand the test of time.
You listen to this ONE time and tell me it doesn't still hold up. Still brings tears to my eyes:
Mario 64 is about exploring the world and figuring out how to get the stars. The game only has 120 Stars, and 100% the game isn't mandatory. You only need 70 Stars to fight Bowser 3.
Mario 64 isn't, strictly speaking, a platformer. Nintendo didn't feel that precision platforming worked in 3D, so they de-emphasized it. Mario 64 has immense variation and creativity in its miniature sandboxes. Each one has distinct rules and quirks and enemies.
You're supposed to, I think, derive joy from the simple act of running around and leap and sliding and all that. The meat of Mario 64 is traversal and figuring out what the game wants you to do. Each level is large enough to be worth exploring yet small enough to ensure the player can accomplish their goals in reasonable time.
Mario 64 presents you with a riddle, and this riddle is your objective. That's the core of the game.
That star is special because it doesn't exit the level when you collect it. So getting 100 coins, which honestly isn't that hard considering how many blue and red coins each level tends to have, doesn't break the flow of gameplay. And again, 100% the game isn't required.
The impression I get is that you're a platformer fan. Mario 64 isn't really a platformer. It's an objective based sandbox game. This design trait was a direct inspiration for GoldenEye. Instead of linear progression, you're placed in a small sandbox environment and left to figure out how the world works. This does involve a lot of trial and error and a lot of repetition. But I personally prefer it over stuff like Galaxy which is all about... well, platforming.
Still the best most perfectly crafted Mario game of all time and one of the best games ever made. Play through it at least once a year and i feel the same way about it everytime. Only issue is the camera.
It's crazy that I was 10 years late to the N64 version of the game (my N64 collection was, em, lacking) and that was still 11 fucking years ago lol.
Shit, Mario 64 DS is 13 years old now. The original was only 8 years old when that released.
And yes, it absolutely holds up. The level design is still fantastic, and some camera issues aside it's just feels great to play.
Shit, Mario 64 DS is 13 years old now. The original was only 8 years old when that released.
And yes, it absolutely holds up. The level design is still fantastic, and some camera issues aside it's just feels great to play.
Love this reply! Doesn't do the same for me obviously, but more power to you. Enjoy!
Considering all the winks and callbacks to Mario 64 in Odyssey, I really wish the Wing Cap was in there as an unlockable for beating the game or something.
I know Glydon/Paragoombas/Gushens/etc kinda fufill a similar role when cap-tured, but they don't quite match the grace and majesty of flying around in Mario 64. Imagine being able to fly around New Donk City in the same way.
As others have said, it holds up incredibly well, but the camera can be an issue sometimes. I've been coming back to it pretty often over the years, more so recently as it was a childhood favourite of my girlfriends, and still really enjoy my time with it every time. Not sure how much of that is nostalgia blinding me though.
Side note, I was not prepared for some of the Mario 64 nostalgia bombs that Odyssey dropped, it really made me realise how much of an impact Mario 64 had on me.
Side note, I was not prepared for some of the Mario 64 nostalgia bombs that Odyssey dropped, it really made me realise how much of an impact Mario 64 had on me.
I think that this is likely to be the new player experience. Someone mentioned Tomb Raider for the PlayStation, which was a bad game even when it launched, despite the reviews. Timeless games will always be reviewed well, because they always play well. And I don't know that Super Mario 64 stands up to the test of time. That said, it's miles ahead of something like Tomb Raider.
Meanwhile, A Link to the Past, Donkey Kong Country 2, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Super Mario World and its sequel would still get ridiculously high reviews today. There's a difference.
It holds up, but Galaxy 1/2, 3D World, and Odyssey are all infinitely better than it. Like, it's hard for me to understand how someone can play through Galaxy 2 and say that 64 is better than it, and 64 is one of my first games ever (launch day, when I was 6 years old) and one of the games that made a gigantic impact on me.
Interesting. You may be right. But Breath of the Wild blew my socks off, and I find it hard to believe that Breath of the Wild is what Mario 64 tried to be.
Swimming is better in 64 than in Odyssey, I prefer the way some of the moves (e.g. the dive) is done in 64 versus Odyssey, and I also kinda feel like Mario feels more fluid in 64.
Not that Odyssey is bad in any way, mind you, but I really feel like 64 Mario was much more fun to control overall, even compared to Sunshine and Galaxy.
Not that Odyssey is bad in any way, mind you, but I really feel like 64 Mario was much more fun to control overall, even compared to Sunshine and Galaxy.
I think so. Somewhat basic but core gameplay is timeless. If they told me I had five minutes to live, completely alone and I could play one game for that time, it would be Mario 64.
Thanks for reading and yeah, that's totally fair. 64 definitely scratches a different itch from the 2D games and later 3D entries like the Galaxies and 3D World. That's also why I can understand some of the tepid response to Odyssey, even though that game for me is almost exactly what I've wanted out of the series for years now.
You could also argue that Mario World presents a smoother transition into more non-linear and exploratory gameplay (with its interconnected world map and hidden exits in most stages) for the 2D games than Mario 64 did for the series as a whole; it feels like less of a compromise with obvious growing pains. They're two sides of the same coin really (and they're both my clear favorites in the series), and I'm a bit miffed Nintendo never really explored World's formula in a 2D Mario again.
I played it for the first time late on Wii and it was not perfect but a lot of fun. Some levels were not fun and broken but that first level is pure genius.
Yes, it does. And people who say the camera is awful have not really played games with bad cameras, if you are having problems with the camera and want it to align behind Mario just press R, and if you wanna lock the camera for a moment just press start and change the configuration of the camera then keep R pressed.
the camera may have not aged gracefully, doing the changes by intervals instead of a continuous movement, but is definitely good.
The N64 controller is the best way to play Super Mario 64, i mean is not hard to see why since the game was designed with that controller in mind, analog sticks are c-buttons are just awful and the Z-trigger (that you use a lot on SM64) is real good.
the camera may have not aged gracefully, doing the changes by intervals instead of a continuous movement, but is definitely good.
The N64 controller is the best way to play Super Mario 64, i mean is not hard to see why since the game was designed with that controller in mind, analog sticks are c-buttons are just awful and the Z-trigger (that you use a lot on SM64) is real good.
One of the best games of all time for me. The first time playing through the world 1 level was a mind blowing experience at the time
Why not? Better bosses (64's bosses are absolutely terrible), level design (more diverse and creative than it gets credit for), less repetition, much better power-ups, better music, etc. I'm not even going to mention the post-game worlds and the Captain Toad levels. Unless it not being "open" automatically = "not a real 3D Mario lol"
Let's explain how the changes to the dive, from 64 to Odyssey, affected mario's moveset, and why some posters are saying than 64's mario still has the better moveset.
Ignoring cappy for a second, the main thing that differentiates odyssey's and 64's movement mechanics, were the changes introduced to the dive move.
In odyssey, the dive was simplified: it can only be done in mid air (by pressing ZL + Y), it gives you aditional air time, it has no lag upon landing.
This was most definitely done so that the dive would work in conjunction with cappy (i.e. to be able to throw cappy, then dive into him).
While cappy and the new air dive let mario do acrobatic stuff in the air, they don't and much on the ground, the most relevant adition there would be the new roll move.
In mario games, there tends to be two main actions that affect mario's movement, and Nintendo likes to keep those actions in adjacent buttons. In super mario bros, jump and run. In 64, this was jump and dive, which was changed in Odyssey to jump and cappy, so it's natural that the dive would be more relevant for mario's traversal in 64 compared to Odyssey.
In 64, the dive was a two step move (the dive, and a rollout). Both steps would launch mario forward.
If you used the dive in the air, at the peak of your jump, mario would dive downwards inmediatly (while, in Odyssey, mario describes a small upwards curve, before he starts falling).
On the other hand, if you used the dive at the beggining of your jump (as mario started to rise), your dive would fly much higher and further, before falling. This was called a jump dive, and could be done, either by pressin "a" (= jump) + "b" (= dive) at the exact same time, or by pressing "b" soon after "a".
Think about your regular jump, doube jump and triple jump. Similarly, you could do a regular jump dive, a "double" jump dive or a "triple" one.
If you pressed "a" + "b" together, you would do a jump dive, combining your regular jump and the dive.
To combine your double jump with the dive, you would have to jump once and, when mario is about to touch the ground again, instead of simply pressing "a" (to do a double jump), you would press "a" + "b".
To combine your triple jump with the dive, you would, jump once, press "a" as you touch the ground (to do a double jump), and the press "a" + "b" as you touch the ground a second time.
(your jump dive would subsequently go higher and travel further, if you combined it with a double jump, or even a triple jump, rather than a regular jump)
Finally, while on the ground, the dive was mario's main way of traversing big spaces quickly.
So, jump dives + being able to use the dive on the ground, can be done in the other two 3d marios with open level design (64 and sunshine), but not in odyssey.
If you watch a 64 (or sunshine) speedrun, you should be able to easily recognize mario diving and dive jumping all over the place.
Although it's worth noting that Odyssey did bring something new (and awesome) to mario's moveset aside from cappy:
mario gaining momentum after a long jump, roll, slope, which can then be maintained if mario starts jumping right after doing any of those moves (making mario's jumps go further than usual!!).
So, for example, you would roll, jump out of the roll, jump again as you land (double jump), jump as you land a second time (triple jump), jump again...
Also, mario's regular jump being significantly higher, if you jump right after mario regrabs cappy (as cappy comes back to you after having thrown him or bounced on him), is also a nice touch.
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Rebel-TT, great idea for a thread and I'm glad to read your perspective on this. I completely agree, basically. I think it's a pioneering one but not nearly as fun now as it was then when exploring 3D worlds was such a novelty. Collectathon platformers died out in the subsequent gen when the mindset shifted to the idea that how to traverse 3D space was more interesting to play than just getting to traverse 3D space at all. At least when platforming is the focus, I mean. When shooting or traversing an open world is the priority people enjoy traversing 3D space but when platforming is the focus the essence is lost the less platforming you do, IMO.
So I'll just say this, then. I never got much into SMS and when trying it again a couple years back we couldn't get into it then either. But when trying the original linear Sly Cooper again in the past couple years we enjoyed it a ton because of the focused 3D platforming design. And I think there's a thoroughline from there to the SMG Galaxy games, which we loved, to the 3DL and 3DW games which we were also huge on.
(As a side note, another recent 3D platformer we've enjoyed immensely was Snake Pass.)
As an additional note, as big fans of previous 3D Zelda games, BOTW left us cold in a lot of ways, though we mostly focused on exploring and side questing and lots of Koroks before getting burned out 120 hours in, so if we try it again we'll focus more on the main quest and shrines (of which we found some we're great and some not as interesting) and less on the Koroks perhaps.
That all being said, and having gone mostly on media blackout since the January trailer, I was somewhat skeptical of how much we'd enjoy SMO. Having played 15-20 hours, I can say we like it a whole lot and are generally enjoying our time with it more and more as we continue to play it past completion of the main game. The first 5 hours or so were pretty fun and in parts awesome, but it picked up considerably in creativity and fun factor for us thereafter.
So I'll just say this, then. I never got much into SMS and when trying it again a couple years back we couldn't get into it then either. But when trying the original linear Sly Cooper again in the past couple years we enjoyed it a ton because of the focused 3D platforming design. And I think there's a thoroughline from there to the SMG Galaxy games, which we loved, to the 3DL and 3DW games which we were also huge on.
(As a side note, another recent 3D platformer we've enjoyed immensely was Snake Pass.)
As an additional note, as big fans of previous 3D Zelda games, BOTW left us cold in a lot of ways, though we mostly focused on exploring and side questing and lots of Koroks before getting burned out 120 hours in, so if we try it again we'll focus more on the main quest and shrines (of which we found some we're great and some not as interesting) and less on the Koroks perhaps.
That all being said, and having gone mostly on media blackout since the January trailer, I was somewhat skeptical of how much we'd enjoy SMO. Having played 15-20 hours, I can say we like it a whole lot and are generally enjoying our time with it more and more as we continue to play it past completion of the main game. The first 5 hours or so were pretty fun and in parts awesome, but it picked up considerably in creativity and fun factor for us thereafter.
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This is nice concise way of putting it, really hits the nail on the head.
Expanding on this - personally I'm unable to maintain momentum for as long without interruption in other 3D Marios. I've been enjoying Odyssey a lot and I adore the Galaxy games as well, but the joy of simply controlling Mario in SM64 is still unmatched for me. What OT sees as busy-work or repetitive is still great fun to me because of the movement.
It holds up in so many ways; from the nostalgia many of us had playing it for the first time to the revolutionary concept of a 3D open world Mario, it's a true classic
^^^
Where's that Switch VC
Peach's Castle alone is better than anything in Galaxy 2.
I'm definitely torn on the way stars are handled in 64 vs. moons in Odyssey. I keep seeing criticism for how easy it is to collect them in Odyssey, but in 64 it can be no different for some. Odyssey collecting feels seamless and focused on 100% exploring the world around you to find them all. I think this was a good change as opposed to setting each moon up as standalone missions like 64.
Little Big Adventure also deserves a spot. In 1994 it was the apex of 3d isometric platformers. Game felt like Mario and Zelda combined, with a huge open world, lore, exploration, platforming and fighting, sometimes via a magic ball like Mario.
Its 1997 sequel even more so. France's solid and original answer to Nintendo
Why won't this rumor die?
No matter how much you want it to, the 3DS Circle Pad DOES NOT NEVER HAS AND NEVER WILL give analog control in Mario 64 DS. I don't understand where this misconception comes from, but every single time I see it it makes me more angry than it should.
I agree 110% with you. Although I haven't played Odyssey yet to say if I'd like it better than 64, but considering their track record over the past decade I think it's a pretty safe bet.
