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vypek

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Oct 25, 2017
12,538
I know it used to be 65 back in the 90s. I remember reading an interview with Melissa Joan Hart saying the max was 65 and so they did 65 for Clarissa.
That's interesting. I didn't realize that Nick used 65 episode rule as well. I wonder if they extended it as they found really good hits or if they dropped it altogether. I can't seem to find anything on what rule they currently have, if any, at this point
 

Cornballer

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,261
Preston Beckman, who used to be a scheduler at NBC and Fox, with his takes on the new crop of network pilots.
Here are the MASKYS for the 2019-20 network season which will start sometime in September. I watched a total of 27 pilots on the five broadcast networks and they weren't the worst crop I've seen but they weren't the best either; they were sort of average with a few pleasant surprises.

This year, again, I will dispense with the snark and just offer you my take.
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
That's interesting. I didn't realize that Nick used 65 episode rule as well. I wonder if they extended it as they found really good hits or if they dropped it altogether. I can't seem to find anything on what rule they currently have, if any, at this point
I'm pretty sure it's at least been tweaked or at least broken for popular shows over the years because it was a really dumb rule. Spongebob may have been the first? According to wiki it has 244 episodes.
 

vypek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,538
I'm pretty sure it's at least been tweaked or at least broken for popular shows over the years because it was a really dumb rule. Spongebob may have been the first? According to wiki it has 244 episodes.
That makes sense. I can't think of a reason they would have it in the first place. It would be a little shocking if they were trying to preserve quality over earning more money.
 

Fuzzy

Completely non-threatening
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,127
Toronto
That makes sense. I can't think of a reason they would have it in the first place. It would be a little shocking if they were trying to preserve quality over earning more money.
There were probably automatic pay bumps for the crew after so many episodes according to the various union contracts.
 

G_Shumi

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,134
Cleveland, OH
That makes sense. I can't think of a reason they would have it in the first place. It would be a little shocking if they were trying to preserve quality over earning more money.
There were probably automatic pay bumps for the crew after so many episodes according to the various union contracts.
It was probably that and having live-action shows centered around kids being difficult in general since they grow up.
 

vypek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,538
It was probably that and having live-action shows centered around kids being difficult in general since they grow up.
Oh yeah. They would be pretty limited by that. I'm guessing they could only squeeze out so many episodes if they tried. I think kids have a max of 3 hours per day they can work? Maybe there is a weekly limit too so it would be impossible for them to record a ton of episodes quickly. But that's a good thing that they are limited.
 

G_Shumi

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,134
Cleveland, OH
Oh yeah. They would be pretty limited by that. I'm guessing they could only squeeze out so many episodes if they tried. I think kids have a max of 3 hours per day they can work? Maybe there is a weekly limit too so it would be impossible for them to record a ton of episodes quickly. But that's a good thing that they are limited.
See Nickelodeon's "Sam and Cat" for a network trying to squeeze out as many episodes as they could. It aired for only one season but it was a whopping 40! episodes. But there was a lot of drama behind the scenes and was mostly why it was only on for one season.
 

vypek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,538
I can't recall if I've asked this before but do you guys have any shows that you know of that make a big improvement in their second season? Or maybe even in a subsequent season? I've recently caught up on what seems to be a show that isn't discussed a lot, The Last OG, and it feels like its become much better in season 2. It reminds me of the Showtime show Episodes which did the same thing. And it feels like both of them improved at least in part by expanding stories to more of the supporting cast and having it become much more interesting as a result.

See Nickelodeon's "Sam and Cat" for a network trying to squeeze out as many episodes as they could. It aired for only one season but it was a whopping 40! episodes. But there was a lot of drama behind the scenes and was mostly why it was only on for one season.
Thats a great example. And what I was thinking of for pushing for long seasons cause its the only example I've already read about before. I read it was rumored that it was partially about pay disparity between the two leads but also that everyone who worked on the show was so exhausted. To do a 40 episode must have been an awful burn out for everyone involved.
 

timedesk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,937
I can't recall if I've asked this before but do you guys have any shows that you know of that make a big improvement in their second season? Or maybe even in a subsequent season? I've recently caught up on what seems to be a show that isn't discussed a lot, The Last OG, and it feels like its become much better in season 2. It reminds me of the Showtime show Episodes which did the same thing. And it feels like both of them improved at least in part by expanding stories to more of the supporting cast and having it become much more interesting as a result.

It's an old example, but Buffy didn't really get good until its second season. The first was alright, but the cast didn't really gel until season 2. Likewise, season 2 was the first time the show created solid villains that could carry a full season arc.
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956
I can't recall if I've asked this before but do you guys have any shows that you know of that make a big improvement in their second season? Or maybe even in a subsequent season? I've recently caught up on what seems to be a show that isn't discussed a lot, The Last OG, and it feels like its become much better in season 2. It reminds me of the Showtime show Episodes which did the same thing. And it feels like both of them improved at least in part by expanding stories to more of the supporting cast and having it become much more interesting as a result.

That pretty well describes Halt and Catch Fire. I loved the first season (with Lee Pace being INTENSE!), but it really flourishes from the second season on, as the focus shifts to Donna, Cameron and Bos.

Hannibal also improves greatly in its second season, though that's more because each season feels like part of a trilogy The first season is the weakest, I feel, as it's mostly set-up, the second is resolution (of-sorts), the third is a different but interconnected story, and conclusion (again, of-sorts).
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
That makes sense. I can't think of a reason they would have it in the first place. It would be a little shocking if they were trying to preserve quality over earning more money.
65 episodes is enough to run the show each day during a quarter in syndication, so very easy for planning purposes.
 

Tagg

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,717
Is Season 5 of the Affair coming soon? Haven't heard anything and it's been a year since the last season.
 
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berzeli

berzeli

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Oct 25, 2017
3,384
'Patrick Melrose': Creative Team In Talks To Bring Back Showtime & Sky Limited Series For Second Season
The creative team behind Patrick Melrose, the BAFTA-winning Benedict Cumberbatch-fronted drama, are in active discussions about bringing the limited series back for a second run.

Patrick Melrose was originally set up as a five-episode order with each episode of the show based on one of Edward St Aubyn's novels. Although all of the novels were used for the David Nicholls-penned adaptation, Deadline understands that Cumberbatch and the producers are looking at ways to carry on the story.
Yes, it was the best show last year. But dammit, let things end.
 

vypek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,538
It's an old example, but Buffy didn't really get good until its second season. The first was alright, but the cast didn't really gel until season 2. Likewise, season 2 was the first time the show created solid villains that could carry a full season arc.
That seems like a good example. I don't remember much of Buffy but I do recall enjoying the later episodes a lot more (up until a certain point at least).
That pretty well describes Halt and Catch Fire. I loved the first season (with Lee Pace being INTENSE!), but it really flourishes from the second season on, as the focus shifts to Donna, Cameron and Bos.

Hannibal also improves greatly in its second season, though that's more because each season feels like part of a trilogy The first season is the weakest, I feel, as it's mostly set-up, the second is resolution (of-sorts), the third is a different but interconnected story, and conclusion (again, of-sorts).
What a coincidence, someone was telling me the other day that I should try out Hannibal. If I do, I'll at least know that it gets stronger later.
65 episodes is enough to run the show each day during a quarter in syndication, so very easy for planning purposes.
It must still be like that now, right? I had originally thought syndication was based on seasons but that is really silly and episode count makes more sense.
almost every Star Trek series from TNG onwards had big improvements after the first year or two.
This is sort of a surprise. I know they are different series but I would have thought that subsequent "semi-related" series would work pretty well from the start.
 

ClivePwned

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,617
Australia
This is sort of a surprise. I know they are different series but I would have thought that subsequent "semi-related" series would work pretty well from the start.

you'd be surprised
The Next Generation's first two seasons are notoriously rough and uneven and never either gelling or able to come out of the shadow of the original Trek. There were terrible behind the scenes ructions, a revolving door writers room, cast members quitting or being replaced, etc. Then the third season got a new head writer and things took off from there.

Deep Space Nine wasn't as bad for its first two years but it still took till season 4 before it took off (when they brought in the Klingons).

Voyager gradually improved but was never great though adding the Borg character 7 of 9 helped a bit, but that was a show where some of the cast were pretty vocal about hating the show. Then the was Kate Mulgrew's attitude towards Jeri Ryan.

Enterprise was decent but people generally accept it got better as it went on and its final season was pretty decent, even if the finale wasn't all that special (there's an ERA thread about that ATM)

Discovery was ok, depending on who you ask but season two was a definite improvement, even if it's still riddled with problems delivering a coherent narrative.

of course, people will tell you different seasons where each 'show got good.'
 

G_Shumi

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 26, 2017
7,134
Cleveland, OH
Wednesday night's ratings:
Fast-Demo-2019-May-29.WED_.png
 
Oct 25, 2017
22,309
Caught some glimpse of the inbetween, was so confused by having both a police/investigators plot going on alongside this girl who can communicate with those caught in between, seemed like a weird premise.
 

TheIlliterati

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,782

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
It must still be like that now, right? I had originally thought syndication was based on seasons but that is really silly and episode count makes more sense.
These channels also cancel shows nowadays, so they need more flexible programming. Rigidly sticking to those 65 episode shows doesn't work anymore. And at the same time, they started realizing they were leaving money on the table by cancelling some profitable shows.
 
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berzeli

berzeli

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,384
Showtime Orders Comedy Series From Lilly Wachowski, Abby McEnany and Tim Mason
Lilly Wachowski is making a second foray into TV with a new comedy show "Work In Progress," which has been ordered to series at Showtime.

The project, which Wachowski will co-write and executive produce, was created by comedian Abby McEnany and Tim Mason, and premiered at this year's Sundance Film Festival.

"Work In Progress" is described as a funny and "uniquely human" comedy, which features McEnany as a 45-year-old self-identified "fat, queer" woman from Chicago whose misfortune and despair unexpectedly lead her to a vibrantly transformative relationship. Chicago-based performers Theo Germaine and Karin Anglin co-star alongside Celeste Pechous, with "SNL" alumna Julia Sweeney also appearing as herself.
Is it wrong that I'm more exited that this isn't sci-fi?

Filming commences for TV adaptation of Sally Rooney's best-selling novel Normal People for BBC Three (and Hulu)
Rising talents Daisy Edgar-Jones and Paul Mescal to star in new drama from the producers of The Favourite. Oscar-nominated Lenny Abrahamson is on board to direct.

Adapted by Sally Rooney alongside writers Alice Birch and Mark O'Rowe, Normal People is a 12-part drama for BBC Three in partnership with Hulu. It will star Daisy Edgar-Jones (War Of The Worlds, Cold Feet) as Marianne and Paul Mescal in his first television role as Connell, in an exquisite and compulsive modern love story about how two people can profoundly impact each others' lives.
Filming will take place in Dublin, Sligo and Italy with Oscar nominated director Lenny Abrahamson (Room, The Little Stranger, Frank) and award-winning director Hettie McDonald (Howard's End) sharing the directorial duties.
Normal People tracks the tender but complicated relationship of Marianne and Connell from the end of their school days in small-town west of Ireland to their undergraduate years at Trinity College. At school, he's well-liked and popular, while she's lonely, proud and intimidating. But when Connell comes to pick up his mother from her cleaning job at Marianne's house, a strange and indelible connection grows between the two teenagers - one they are determined to conceal. A year later, they're both studying in Dublin and Marianne has found her feet in a new social world but Connell hangs at the side lines, shy and uncertain.
 

CrichtonKicks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,183
I can't recall if I've asked this before but do you guys have any shows that you know of that make a big improvement in their second season? Or maybe even in a subsequent season? I

It's fairly common. Buffy, as mentioned. Angel. Agents of Shield. Babylon 5, Deep Space Nine (S3), ST:TNG (S3), The Clone Wars, Gotham, Fringe. And a bunch more.
 

RatskyWatsky

Are we human or are we dancer?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,931
"Every show from #54 to #1 is good."

No. Some are good, some are fine, some are bad.
 
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