2020 Democratic Presidential Primary | OT | and now we're throwing binders

Oct 25, 2017
19,810
What the fuck?

Kamala was asked what was the first thing she’d pass when she became president not what her number one priority would be. This is blatant disingenuous nonsense from Warren
Look at that first tweeter's twitter bio and all will be explained. He's one of those (toxic) types.
Warren won't win the primary. Im okay with her staying tho to steal some of Bernie's voters and so she can use the primary to further her platform.
Warren is running the campaign the way you run an issue advocacy/awareness campaign that knows it's probably not gonna win. Focusing on positivity and going after the GOP.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,310
Wait! Warren is the perfect person to PUNCH Kamala from the left while Bernie does not get tarnished. But since Warren is obviously unelectable, she will be done by Iowa. Wow the perfect plan. All it takes now is for Biden to destroy himself and Bernie will be president.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,234
Elizabeth Warren is the real deal. She isn't some anti-globalist bitter socialist like Bernie, she actually knows what she's talking about and has very sensible policies. I hope she does well and people move on from this scandal. I'm still Team Beto though, if he ever runs, but a Warren VP would be dream team.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,667
I really like Warren but she fucked herself over with the Native American stuff and voters look for any minor reason to not vote for a woman so I don’t see her being successful.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,071
The US elections are pretty much a middle school popularity contest. Warren is done just by 7th grade tier Pocahontas trolling? Is this the state of things?
Yep, she basically nailed the message I’d be going with if I was running the 2020 Democratic campaign.

America has always spoken of itself as the miraculous country where anything is possible. Yet you have the entire Republican Party and most of the Democratic Party telling you that you can’t even have things that other first world countries have already implemented successfully, like universal healthcare, renewable energy reform, living wage provisions and college tuition assistance schemes that don’t burden graduates with insurmountable debt.

What the fuck went so wrong to make America let its political leadership so brazenly bullshit the people, and even worse, they believe them.
Racism. Everytime White voters troll their own livelihoods it's because politicians have weaponized racism.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,810
The US elections are pretty much a middle school popularity contest. Warren is done just by 7th grade tier Pocahontas trolling? Is this the state of things?
It's not the trolling, the whole thing encapsulates the core fear that she's a policy wonk/academic first, politician second, with the fear that nominating her would be a repeat of the issues we saw with our candidates in 2000 and 2016.
 
Jan 2, 2019
90
It's really tragic that many people(?) are letting the media narrative largely determine their support for Warren.

The American Indian thing is a big deal right now because the media is making it so. But that's largely a fault of the media, not Warren. Sure it's an issue, but the media are massively blowing it out of proportion.

Sadly I think people are right that this would haunt her in the general. But that's the fault of the media. If you want to be angry at someone, direct most of your anger at them.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39
It's not the trolling, the whole thing encapsulates the core fear that she's a policy wonk/academic first, politician second, with the fear that nominating her would be a repeat of the issues we saw with our candidates in 2000 and 2016.
I think Warren is a different beast than Clinton, though. She is generally the smartest person in the room and has the most well-researched policy positions, but she’s also pretty great at informing people of those positions in a way that’s engaging and digestible. Her teaching background really shows in this regard. Comparing her speech today to one of Hillary’s stump speeches from 2016 is like night and day.

Whether any of this will matter in the end remains to be seen, and it’s way too early to be picking winners and losers at this point. We still have almost a full year until the first primary votes are cast, which is a long, long time for things to move in any direction.
 
Oct 27, 2017
135
I think Warren should be done in by the fact that
she adopted an insultingly naive definition of what being First Nations means, all the while providing a DNA test that proved that, at best, she is 1/64th indigenous (of some kind).

Amongst other incredibly insensitive and dumb things she's said in the times she's addressed this scandal she said "My papaw had high cheekbones like all of the Indians do."
 
Jan 2, 2019
90
I think Warren should be done in by the fact that
she adopted an insultingly naive definition of what being First Nations means, all the while providing a DNA test that proved that, at best, she is 1/64th indigenous (of some kind).

Amongst other incredibly insensitive and dumb things she's said in the times she's addressed this scandal she said "My papaw had high cheekbones like all of the Indians do."
Except she never claimed to be part of the First Nations
 
Nov 3, 2017
7,227
It's really tragic that many people(?) are letting the media narrative largely determine their support for Warren.

The American Indian thing is a big deal right now because the media is making it so. But that's largely a fault of the media, not Warren. Sure it's an issue, but the media are massively blowing it out of proportion.

Sadly I think people are right that this would haunt her in the general. But that's the fault of the media. If you want to be angry at someone, direct most of your anger at them.

The dumb ass deserves every bit of her negative coverage, she is a scumbag that used fake minority status to further herself.

 
Oct 27, 2017
39
I think Warren should be done in by the fact that
she adopted an insultingly naive definition of what being First Nations means, all the while providing a DNA test that proved that, at best, she is 1/64th indigenous (of some kind).

Amongst other incredibly insensitive and dumb things she's said in the times she's addressed this scandal she said "My papaw had high cheekbones like all of the Indians do."
She was quoting her aunt when she talked about the cheekbones, but yeah, she still probably shouldn’t have said anything. But to be perfectly fair, she’s a woman who was told her entire life by her family that she has Native American heritage. In that context, I don’t think her actions are particularly malicious in any way, just naive. Even after taking the ill advised DNA test, she was careful to note that she’s not a member of a tribe and only tribes determine tribal citizenship. In any case, she appears to have learned her lesson and understands the implications of the things she has said and done up to this point. She apologized for them, and is hopefully able to move on. We can keep talking about this story for the next year, but I really don’t think there’s anything else there to discuss at this point.
 
Nov 3, 2017
7,227
She literally apologized earlier this week for calling herself Native American.
People burying their heads to the fact she has furthered herself in her career by claiming to be Native American.

Trump has done us a favor by exposing this scumbag early, before she got passed the primaries.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39
The dumb ass deserves every bit of her negative coverage, she is a scumbag that used fake minority status to further herself.

“The following is for statistical purposes only and will not be disclosed to any person or organization without the express written consent of the attorney:”

She honestly believed herself to be Native American, because that is what her family told her for her whole life. There is literally no other reason to write that there. The form itself states there is no advantage/disadvantage to be gained.
 
Dec 26, 2018
2,292
Warren is running the campaign the way you run an issue advocacy/awareness campaign that knows it's probably not gonna win. Focusing on positivity and going after the GOP.
Agreed.

Wait! Warren is the perfect person to PUNCH Kamala from the left while Bernie does not get tarnished. But since Warren is obviously unelectable, she will be done by Iowa. Wow the perfect plan. All it takes now is for Biden to destroy himself and Bernie will be president.
Bernie's not going to sit out attacking Kamala, who's started off being very to the left and Warren isn't strong enough to bring down Kamala on her own. Super Tuesday will be to her advantage via Cali. This election is her's to lose at this stage.

The US elections are pretty much a middle school popularity contest.
That's all elections ever, they're popularity contests. The more people who vote for you wins, and people are shallow creatures.

Warren is done just by 7th grade tier Pocahontas trolling? Is this the state of things?
Yes. This might have blown over in the 90's, because people were more terrible but today this is a death knell for a campaign.
 
Nov 3, 2017
7,227
“The following is for statistical purposes only and will not be disclosed to any person or organization without the express written consent of the attorney:”

She honestly believed herself to be Native American, because that is what her family told her for her whole life. There is literally no other reason to write that there. The form itself states there is no advantage/disadvantage to be gained.
This is one form, she has used this fake minority status everywhere
 
Oct 27, 2017
39
This is one form, she has used this fake minority status everywhere
Fortunately the Boston Globe did an exhaustive investigation of all of her available employment records, as well as interviews with the people who have been responsible for hiring her throughout her career. I recommend reading it: https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/na...complicated/wUZZcrKKEOUv5Spnb7IO0K/story.html

At the end of the day, if you have all of the information straight, it’s pretty hard to argue that she had deliberately lied about these things to try to get a leg up. All of the evidence suggests that she just legitimately (albeit naively) believed herself to be Native American, and the biggest effect that it had on her career was the political blowback she received after she started running for office. But again, she appears to have learned her lesson and understands why even her naive mistakes were still harmful. She apologized, and should hopefully be able to move forward.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,080
Sydney
“The following is for statistical purposes only and will not be disclosed to any person or organization without the express written consent of the attorney:”

She honestly believed herself to be Native American, because that is what her family told her for her whole life. There is literally no other reason to write that there. The form itself states there is no advantage/disadvantage to be gained.
Did she believe she had Native American ancestors in her family or that she was Native American though? The form seems to imply the latter which is obviously not something she should have reasonably believed.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39
Did she believe she had Native American ancestors in her family or that she was Native American though? The form seems to imply the latter which is obviously not something she should have reasonably believed.
She believed she was mixed. Her family stories suggested her mother was part Native American, and her father’s parents actually opposed their marriage because of it.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,080
Sydney
She believed she was mixed. Her family stories suggested her mother was part Native American, and her father’s parents actually opposed their marriage because of it.
Yeah so unless you subscribe to a really strict definition of the one drop rule that doesn’t seem very smart to define yourself as a Native American on a form like that when you think you have, at best, mixed racial heritage.
 
Oct 25, 2017
19,810
Yeah so unless you subscribe to a really strict definition of the one drop rule that doesn’t seem very smart to define yourself as a Native American on a form like that when you think you have, at best, mixed racial heritage.
Warren was born in 1949 into a white middle-class family. It's safe to say she did not get the lessons in cultural awareness our generations did on the internet.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,236
The dumb ass deserves every bit of her negative coverage, she is a scumbag that used fake minority status to further herself.

Yep. It doesn't make the President's Racism any less disgusting, but Warren deserves shit for this and her publicity stunt makes me believe she still didn't' really get it. I have an extremely hard time believing she didn't know what she was doing and not question putting that on official documents.
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,080
Sydney
Warren was born in 1949 into a white middle-class family. It's safe to say she did not get the lessons in cultural awareness our generations did on the internet.
Yes and I don’t think it’s disqualifying either but I do think it’s a fuck up it was good she apologised, and I don’t think “her family was wrong about their heritage” is exculpatory because even if they were right it’s still wrong to write that.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39
Yeah so unless you subscribe to a really strict definition of the one drop rule that doesn’t seem very smart to define yourself as a Native American on a form like that when you think you have, at best, mixed racial heritage.
Yeah, I mean I don’t think anyone is saying that she wasn’t naive. I just think it’s pretty clear she wasn’t acting maliciously as some suggest. There was no advantage to be gained by writing that on that form. Unless she honestly believed it, why would she do it?
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,080
Sydney
Yeah, I mean I don’t think anyone is saying that she wasn’t naive. I just think it’s pretty clear she wasn’t acting maliciously as some suggest. There was no advantage to be gained by writing that on that form. Unless she honestly believed it, why would she do it?
Agreed it comes off as dopey or naive instead of malicious since there doesn’t appear to be any material benefit, which is why I don’t find it disqualifying.
 
Oct 27, 2017
707
When I saw this earlier this week, it felt like a punch in the gut. To see "American Indian" handwritten that way, I felt real pain and disappointment. When someone takes on minority status/identity without having to bear the life-breaking hardships and burdens that frequently come with that status, it's like a slap in the face. And to see a visual artifact from that time, it got a visceral reaction out of me. I supported Elizabeth Warren. I still may support Elizabeth Warren. But I have to confess I'm reeling. I'm still sorting out my feelings about this. And I understand those who will not forgive her for this.

What's making me waver instead of outright dropping her from my list of potentials? This happened in 1986, when people were still calling Native Americans "American Indians." That it happened 30+ years ago doesn't make it right. It wasn't right then either. But the nation and the culture were profoundly ignorant of how wrong this was. She did this in that cultural context, where the entire country was silent and blind to this issue. It wasn't part of the national conversation.

She did this out of ignorance of how wrong this was. And out of genuine pride in the family stories she was told. Her family lore is that one side of her family had Native ancestry and, because of that, family members on the other side were opposed to her parents' marriage. It's a family story that was meaningful to her, but she expressed that pride in her family history in the wrong way. Back then, there were more pressures on white and white-passing people to deny that they had any minority ancestry. She went against that societal pressure and that might've influenced her judgment on this. But again, identifying her race outright as "American Indian" was wrong. She didn't know better then. She knows better now.

The dumb ass deserves every bit of her negative coverage, she is a scumbag that used fake minority status to further herself.
It was a dumbass move to call herself "American Indian." She's not American Indian.

But she did not intend to deceive or mislead. It was an honestly mistakenly-held belief she had. And - more importantly - she did not identify herself as "Native American" in any school application or career move. She did not use this to further her career. She's an extraordinary mind, the top expert in her field of bankruptcy and commercial law, an inspiring and gifted teacher. All the top schools courted her. And she reached that pinnacle after starting out as a two-year community college student. She was a divorced (later remarried) young mother that still found a way to educate herself and to excel.

She's not a scumbag. She made an honest mistake that was born out of love and pride in her family's stories. That may be bad enough. But if she's going to be written off, then folks should understand exactly what it is that they're writing off.
 
OP
OP
pigeon
Oct 25, 2017
3,355
I do kind of wonder a bit about the people who insist it was a huge advantage in the 1970s to go around putting “American Indian” on all your job applications.
 
Oct 27, 2017
554
The fact that warrens blunders is getting so much attention, shows where peoples priorities are. Why not take some time to see whose policies would benefit the native community more and push politicians to comment on native concerns.
 
Dec 3, 2018
658
The fact that warrens blunders is getting so much attention, shows where peoples priorities are. Why not take some time to see whose policies would benefit the native community more and push politicians to comment on native concerns.
Americans chose, vote and reject based on impression. Warren has so far stumbled spectacularly despite her policy positions . It’s a good thing. She will make the senate better staying there based on her policy driven drive
 
Dec 26, 2018
2,292
The fact that warrens blunders is getting so much attention, shows where peoples priorities are. Why not take some time to see whose policies would benefit the native community more and push politicians to comment on native concerns.
That's not how politics works. Policy will be less priority to optics, that's just how we're wired.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,465
I do kind of wonder a bit about the people who insist it was a huge advantage in the 1970s to go around putting “American Indian” on all your job applications.
Honestly there seems to be some racist undertones to whole idea that posing a minority even on applications makes things easier for people.

PoC get rejected more than accepted based on their race and ethnicity.

Really what Warren did wrong was trying to actually show that she was a minority now not some dumb applications years ago. However when you put them together it's just bad optics.
 
Oct 27, 2017
554
That's not how politics works. Policy will be less priority to optics, that's just how we're wired.
Well its dumb and imma call it dumb. This is more aimed at the media, which i feel could do a better job of launching of this to talk about wider native issues instead of treating this just like a basket ball game.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,071
This Native American thing is overblown hogwash. I just googled old pics of her and with her natural dark hair and hearing her family's stories, it's entirely plausible that she believed she had some Native American lineage. I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt because the "Race" section of Bar registration has no advantages whatsoever, it's only for statistical purposes.
 
Dec 26, 2018
2,292
No wonder people are confused by how the system works when he's sprouting bullshit like this, like the system can be brushed off on a whim. Naturally, what's missing is how to get there in the system itself because all it takes is thinking real hard. Right, Bernie? He's going full populist again.