-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
2020 Democratic Presidential Primary | OT | Hickenlooper makes it to the debate
- Thread starter pigeon
- Start date
- Status
Thanks for your small part in nudging the Overton Window, Bernie.
Now, retire and let someone younger, more able and without the racist baggage take up the mantle.
Now, retire and let someone younger, more able and without the racist baggage take up the mantle.
Not sure why when the party seems to be emphatically embracing his policy positions.
And considering how crowded this primary is looking to become, why not join when you have a decent chance?
That'd a relief!
We know this to be true from someone who worked in his campaign. I agree they will have issues on their campaigns, including Hillary's (which is inexcusable) but they are not identical to Bernie's issues. As far as I can recall Hillary's was a one-off incident, while Bernie's was scattershot. Him correcting these flaws, which is commendable, is not necessarily going to protect him from being attacked on this - which I expect Gillabrand to do. he fucked up, so he's going to deal with the consequences during the campaign.
You can bet someone's going to use any people hurt by Kamala's actions as DA against her, that's just how it is in politics. Everyone does it since it's a vulnerability.
Every candidate has posters here that don't like them, and will take cheap shots - that's not unique to Bernie. Regarding the sexual harassment incidents I've seen harsher takes on Kamala's past as the DA. Which they are right to do so, because she seriously fucked up and this is an anchor on her running for POTUS. Bernie's only being singled out as much as what unfolded has made him a unique case. If you have any stories from the other candidate's campaigns having this specific problem with handling sexual harassment shoot me a link.
Women can commit sexual harassment, I hope you realise. It's not a men only issue. It's just rarer and women are not in as many positions of power as men are. Another factor is that men are less likely to report it.
Of course not, they knew how terrible the optics ike this would be and are loyal to him. It's still relevant for news networks and his opponents to discuss.
Yep, she basically nailed the message I'd be going with if I was running the 2020 Democratic campaign.
America has always spoken of itself as the miraculous country where anything is possible. Yet you have the entire Republican Party and most of the Democratic Party telling you that you can't even have things that other first world countries have already implemented successfully, like universal healthcare, renewable energy reform, living wage provisions and college tuition assistance schemes that don't burden graduates with insurmountable debt.
What the fuck went so wrong to make America let its political leadership so brazenly bullshit the people, and even worse, they believe them.
My point is making a 1 to 1 comparison is dumb given Hillary and 2020 candidates operate in an environment that benefits from the post me too era and having campaigns that are prepared for the growth in size. Bernie can be criticized but saying Harris or Hillary are better on the issue given their advantages isnt really that clear cut and i would say worse.
The comparison was bought up because Bernie's employees' reaction was unique among other sexual harassment charges in campaigns. It's a wash here, and I'm being lenient on Bernie because what he did was fucked up which hurt multiple people under his charge. On numbers alone he did far worse. Sexual harassment was never something society took lightly in '16, #MeToo simply brought it to the forefront in society than it used to be. Of all the complaining about sexual harassment being a dumpster fire in campaigns, which I'd admit to agreeing with as likely, feels hollow when the only campaign bought up is Hillary's (someone who isn't running) and was a one-off fuck up. There's Kamala, but I don't recall her being as scatter shot as a DA, either.
edit: The charge against Bernie was specific, so I will ask again: who is running managed to ignore multiple sexual harassment incidents under their leadership because they were too busy, and had no infrastructure to speak of for this?
Because it's not all bullshit. The system is a functioning, real thing which tangibly affects the world the political class didn't pull a fast one on the public to believe in it like it was hypnosis. Those countries don't have America's history, foundation or the GOP fucking their shit up. Red tape won't simply disappear in any country because we don't like it, you need to be able to break it down and reform it from within brushing it off as a con leaves you powerless because it makes you misunderstand the problem you're facing. Common sense isn't so common, man.
Last edited:
Hillary was not a one off fuck up, shes shown history of this and her personal disregard for victims shouldnt give people confidence in her position on the issue. However lets use Kamala Harris who did not vet a top aide for his history of Harrasement and this happened in an environment that should have better HR procedures. Making statements that Bernie is worse by viewing the outcomes in a vacuum does not say who is better on the issue.
This is all valid but isn't really a counterpoint to anything I said to be honest. I have a degree with honours in Political Science and Public Policy and in the past have worked in government agencies with the specific focus of changing the culture of regulation and reform government wide (in social, environmental and economic policy spheres). It's a tough beat. I only mention all that to demonstrate that I am far from blind as to the enormity of the challenge. I'm not saying it's something that will happen over night. Weber was right when he said that politics is the slow boring of hard boards.
But hard is not a synonym for impossible. It does have to start somewhere, and as my post said, I'm talking specifically about the messaging for the campaign, not laying down the entire roadmap. The message has to be about breaking a cycle of cynicism and defeatism about what is possible instead of just spinning the tyres in the mud. I think it's a message that could seriously resonate.
Last edited:
You're replying to someone who has a political ideaology summed up by ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Probably best to disengage to be honest. People that think the broken system is some immovable object are the exact reason that such a perception prevails.
OP
OP
I don't really care what you say about my motives. I happen to actually know them, so it doesn't matter much to me what you think about them.
One of us has said that all sexual harassment issues should be investigated for all Democratic candidates, and one of us has said that all the people who say they care about the sexual harassment issues in Bernie's campaign are lying and should be ignored, so I'm happy to let others judge which of us has corrupt motivations.
That's fair about Hillary, I agree Kamala fucked up here but neither have the wide scope of ignoring sexual harassment or lacking a HR department for these issues like he did. You're still saying what they did was worse, however. That was the biggest contention in my first reply. This is why I call what Bernie did "scattershot" as it was all over his campaign, rather than laser focused fuck up's.
I can agree with that.
Then you haven't been paying attention, I've never been shy about what my ideology is or where I stand in politics.
I never said it was an immovable object, I'm acknowledging how large the obstacle it is to reform rather than acting like it'll be knocked off in a couple of days through some tweets. If the system was as fragile as you're framing why isn't it at least half way being shaped into what your vision is? It's a perception based on reality, real reform requires you to fully understand the complexity and power it welds and have the proper implementing force to do the job it won't be done by simply changing peoples minds one at a time, as if all it was is a mindset. The bureaucracy won't suddenly disappear by getting people to agree with you, that's the first step - the next step is getting them to the heavy lifting in changing the bureaucracy brick by brick on the inside. Which politicians like Warren, Bernie and AOC are doing little by little.
Who's saying it's not? What occurring in Bernie's campaign is sad, but hardly an instance where it is inappropriate, as he's running for POTUS. This is not an either/or issue regarding campaigning, it's like any other mistake candidates make in this race - it will be scrutinised and judged accordingly. Loyalty is nice, but because she has a soft spot for the guy isn't a sign that we all should shrug our shoulders and move on.
Last edited:
This NYT article about Warren's announcement today brought my attention to Ocasio-Cortez's answer during Thursday's MSNBC interview describing her position on Warren's Native American claim.
Here's AOC's full answer(question at 3:17):
Hopefully Warren's model has a different definition for "uplifting those voices" than AOC and Bernie had in their primary of KS03 last year.
Here's AOC's full answer(question at 3:17):
Feel like he would try to hype up an announcement to run a bit more than this, but at the same time media would do all the work for him in a second. He did say he would have deciding on running by the end of February, so wonder if we'll hear anything on that here? Border and immigration are going to be massive topics of debate in 2020, so this would be an appropriate venue for an announcement...
Given his biggest strength is campaigning, out on the trail, he should announce ASAP if he's running. His relevance is just fading in the meantime.
"Prioritize Central American Foreign Policy" sure seems like he's about to announce a Texas run, not a US one.
For sure, but he is already a pretty recognizable name among the general voting populous to the point where he's polling around 8-9% support without even announcing an intention to run and people already have a favorable impression of him. While the sooner the better, I think anytime in February would work just fine for him, he's just got to be careful of getting overshadowed by a Bernie or Biden announcement.
Also, this blurb on the event makes me think an announcement is a no:
Beto trying another Texas run would be welcome. He did pretty well last time
He lost because he lost ground with Hispanic voters relative to Hillary. Unlike in Florida, where Nelson wasn't campaigning to them and Scott was, there's actually an excuse (Cruz's background) and on top of that, Cornyn is less well known relative to Cruz in Texas (the same way Nelson was less well known than Rubio) suggesting there's an opening here vs Cornyn that wasn't there vs Cruz.
I've heard Cornyn is pretty popular or at least well regarded in Texas, whereas Cruz was pretty disliked considering he's a slimy bastard and all, which is what gave Beto the opportunity he had to flip the seat. Beto may have more momentum going into 2020, but I feel like if he couldn't take down Cruz, he can't take down Cornyn unless he gets lucky.
I think this is the CW among Dems/older voters, but it doesn't actually gel with the polling. Cruz is more popular than both Cornyn and Trump in Texas.
Interesting, another senate run is probably best for Beto anyway, although it would be very interesting to see him in the primaries. Kamala looks like she's shaping up to be a pretty strong contender and flipping a seat in Texas blue would be great. However, putting Beto on the VP ticket may work a miracle in Texas if that's something Dems feel they need to go for.
The event seems about showing opposition to the admins policies and Donnie's presence in the city.
Beto was one of the strong early voices helping raise national awareness of and against zero tolerance, the internment facilities, and the effects on families and children. The admin still can't, won't or tries to rationalize keeping the children seized from zero tolerance from being returned to their families. I hope this event has a large attendance to send a message against the admins policies, lies and racism regardless of anything to do with Beto announcing.
That said, lots of energetic anticipation in support for a Beto bid in the thread though. His base seems ready to go. Congresswoman Veronica Escobar's presence at the event makes it seem she's possibly an early endorsement. Maybe this could be leading up to a formal rally/announcement if portents look good next weekend or after?
When does he have to announce for a Texas run?
that's since 2012
all good stuff here, pretty much exactly what AOC outlined as an ideal 2020 candidate
good message but not much about future building.
Warren harping on the past too much does nothing to shore up the future.
Warren harping on the past too much does nothing to shore up the future.
I don't know, future building seemed to be her entire message. saying trump isn't the cause of all of our problems, merely the most extreme recent symptom aka beating trump is just the beginning. wants big, structural change. rejects those goals being considered radical. change is coming. etc. all future building. even the undo past bullshit is for a better future. pretty much connected to every word she said.
Oh, this thing with Warren happened already. Glad someone mentioned it.
Hope her planned big structural changes don't inadvertently crush "the wrong people" with her focus on class warfare.
Hope her planned big structural changes don't inadvertently crush "the wrong people" with her focus on class warfare.
I loved Warrens speech today, I hope she can avoid falling into the Jeb! pit of fuckups. I prefer her vastly over the likes of Kamala, Klobucher and especially fucking Booker and Biden. Also I'm hyped as fuck for Bernie
She should quit while she is behind
She has been such an easily and malleable target for Trump
She has been such an easily and malleable target for Trump
The primary will take care of that itself. If she isn't electable enough to beat Trump (and she likely is not able to beat Trump) she won't win the primary.
Don't worry, things will play themselves out.
OP
OP
What the fuck?
Kamala was asked what was the first thing she'd pass when she became president not what her number one priority would be. This is blatant disingenuous nonsense from Warren
I mean that's what the guy in the tweet said. Warren didn't knock Kamala herself.
Now that I think of it, Liz will be useful at dividing the Bernie vote. So both won't win the nom
- Status