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Tukarrs

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,822
"My dear departed grandmothers (whose extraordinary legacy I described in a recent essay on this website), as well as my deceased parents, must be turning in their grave right now to see their family's name, reputation and proud Jamaican identity being connected, in any way, jokingly or not with the fraudulent stereotype of a pot-smoking joy seeker and in the pursuit of identity politics," he wrote.

Added Donald Harris: "Speaking for myself and my immediate Jamaican family, we wish to categorically dissociate ourselves from this travesty."

It not hard to parse. He's angry about...
1) Continuing the negative stereotype of Jamaicans being pot-smoking joy seekers.
2) pursuing identity politics saying that she understands/approves Pot because she's half Jamaican, even though he knows that they've been largely estranged and that she doesn't really know the heritage. It's appropriating an unearned heritage.

I think get the sense that he's a very serious person who is sick of Jamaican Bob Marley stereotypes.
 

Suzushiiro

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
515
Brooklyn, NY
The middle aged crop, (50-70) all came into political maturity during the peak of Reaganism in America and their politics and attitudes are genuinely reflective of the zeitgeist of that day (not that they're all Reaganites but that they're not as left as people would like to see because the Democrats of that age were not very left at that time). We have a large generational gap where there's a bunch of old "socialists" entering their golden years (if not already dead) and a bunch of young "socialists" who went through 9/11 and the great recession and emerged ideologically scarred and skeptical of the status quo of American politics.

For a lot of people Bernie's age is a problem that can't be brushed aside but for a lot of his supporters, the source of his politics is more important than his age. It's basically a choice between an old socialist or a middle aged stodgy liberal.
Yeah, as far as major figures in that part of the spectrum go you have Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren (though she's kinda trying to ride the right border of that zone,) and a bunch of millenials/younger Xers who didn't hold a federal office until last month, for the most part. So it's either one of those two old boomers or someone who may be younger but is notably farther away from said old boomers in terms of their politics.
 
OP
OP
pigeon

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
I actually don't mind Bernie dying as much, it's just the fact of his being old means his VP pick is more important than it usually is. We already have a system in place to take care of presidential deaths so we might as well plan with it in mind.

I'd like to see him pick someone maybe outside of politics but generally involved in social policy/urban engineering. It'd be a clever way to sneak someone closer to his politics through the system rather than try to find a compromise choice (which is what the VP usually is) from the current batch of primary candidates.

I think this misses the real problem, which is less about potentially dying in office, and more about either a) dying on the campaign trail or b) becoming incompetent without dying. Our systems are not well designed to handle either of these. I think maybe in the 1800s "what if this person becomes sick but lives thanks to professional and competent medical care" was not as much of a concern.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
Looking at the claims it seems that the issue now is that she went "of course I smoked a joint, I'm of Jamaican descent" that is obviously playing into a stereotype. Being Jamaican is actually part of her heritage so it's not like she's disallowed from joking on it, but her Jamaican relatives still decided to take distance from her claim
It came out publicly because they're estranged, and his "ok I'm not saying anything else" follow up screams "Someone who's not estranged had some words with him" to me.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
I think this misses the real problem, which is less about potentially dying in office, and more about either a) dying on the campaign trail or b) becoming incompetent without dying. Our systems are not well designed to handle either of these. I think maybe in the 1800s "what if this person becomes sick but lives thanks to professional and competent medical care" was not as much of a concern.
I'd take a socialist with dementia over Biden, that's for sure.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Because allowing unelected appointees to run a dementia-ridden president's administration a la Weekend of Bernie's has worked out so well the last two times.
In so far as they solidified their control of the judicial branch and gave tax cuts to their backers while burdening their opposition with the fall out, yeah.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
In so far as they solidified their control of the judicial branch and gave tax cuts to their backers while burdening their opposition with the fall out, yeah.
And it was very much terrible with the mass corruption, complete lack of accountability, and all the other shit that's gone down under Reagan and Trump.

You can get the Judicial branch with any Dem + the Senate and not have to worry about the executive's inability to respond to a crisis.
I mean.. for republicans

Fuck yeah it did
Not for the nation. Mirroring their worst behavior isn't going to magically make bad behavior into good behavior, it'll just be different bad behavior complete w rampant corruption.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Wait, oh, you were referring to Reagan and Trump. I thought you were referring to Dubya and Trump.
 

Soul Skater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,201
Let's just nominate Ron Reagan, the Buddhist, atheist, not mentally ill socialist hippie son of Ronald and get enough cross over votes out of confusion
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
I think he's a secret republican? In the even of an "unfit" but still alive president the control of the nation will go to his or her handlers. Biden is one year younger than Sanders, they're both equally vulnerable to late adulthood dementia. Given the choice between a salient Biden and his appointees and a possibly incapacitated Sanders and his appointees (assuming these appointees were made during periods of cogency), I feel better with the latter than the former.
Let's just nominate Ron Reagan, the Buddhist, atheist, not mentally ill socialist hippie son of Ronald and get enough cross over votes out of confusion

Fine with this honestly, it'd work too.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
even though he knows that they've been largely estranged and that she doesn't really know the heritage. It's appropriating an unearned heritage.

How would he know anymore than we do? It seems odd that he'd think he was the only authority Kamala could go to about her heritage, and there are likely other voices about what the heritage means than his opinion on the subject.

I think get the sense that he's a very serious person who is sick of Jamaican Bob Marley stereotypes.

That's fair.
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
...

secret???

Biden is no better than Bloomberg.
I was trying to be diplomatic about it but yeah this is how I feel more or less. Biden, Bloomberg, etc. They're the kind of people who, after decades in politics, made voters go "both sides are the same" and are generally to blame for why we have so little cultural trust in our institutions and why we have so many deep-seated problems.

I read this piece a few months after Trump's victory, oh so long ago.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/on-safari-in-trumps-america/543288/

"I have so much hope, and it's gotten kind of shaken from both ends, you know?" she said. "There's an, I don't know, blue-sky part of me that was like, 'I'm going to go traveling around the country and see that we're more about commonalities than differences, that we're more about our desire to be together than to be separate.' And I'm not saying that isn't true. I'm just saying every once in a while it gets kicked in the ass."

That moment of doubt does not appear in the report that Third Way released, which distills the group's conclusions from the tour I joined. In the report, there is only one quotation from the hippie roundtable in Viroqua—a man who extols the area's turnaround, in a section about the area's "intense local pride." "There's love, beauty, and a sense of opportunity," he is quoted as saying. "There's been a rejuvenation of identity."
It was around here where I realized Democrats lost the plot, and I began to reject that entire ideology for good. Biden is the current manifestation of this kind of bullheadedness.
 
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danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,132
Sydney
I was trying to be diplomatic about it but yeah this is how I feel more or less. Biden, Bloomberg, etc. They're the kind of people who, after decades in politics, made voters go "both sides are the same" and are generally to blame for why we have so little cultural trust in our institutions and why we have so many deep-seated problems.

I read this piece a few months after Trump's victory, oh so long ago.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/10/on-safari-in-trumps-america/543288/


It was around here where I realized Democrats lost the plot, and I began to reject that entire ideology for good. Biden is the current manifestation of this kind of bullheadedness.

Wow this piece is hilarious

They wanted to open their hearts and their minds and simply listen. They were certain that, in doing so, they would find what they believed was true: a bunch of reasonable, thoughtful, patriotic Americans. A nation of people who really wanted to get along.

"You've got all these parasites making a living off the bureaucracy," the farmer declared, "like leeches pulling you down, bleeding you dry." We had been in the state for just a few hours, and already the researchers' quest for mutual understanding seemed to be hitting a snag.

Others in the group, a bunch of proudly curmudgeonly older white men, identified other culprits. There were plenty of jobs, a local elected official and business owner said. But today's young people were too lazy or drug-addled to do them.

Some of the people we met expressed the conservative-leaning view that changes in society and the family were to blame. One, a technical-skills instructor at the Chippewa Falls school, questioned whether women belonged in the workplace at all. "That idea of both family members working, it's a social experiment that I don't know if it quite works," he said. "If everyone's working, who is making sure the children are raised right?

Lmao

Edit:

Holy shit this piece is amazing, the writer says the women running the focus group completely spikes the report and puts in a whole bunch of shit to validate her initial world view.
 
Oct 31, 2017
4,333
Unknown
$1000/mo, even as a low figure to begin the discussion, would inject a lot of money into poor communities and help towards ending homelessness. Whatever the right figure works out to this could not only provide housing it could fuel the economy and create new small business and local investment in those areas nationwide. This together with improved healthcare and education bills would improve the lives of ...woww...what would the right figure for that be? The thought of that much wealth redistribution in a nation like the USA is breathtaking to consider. Really. but what is the reality?
Yang and Marianne met a few days ago. Went to catch up on what's going on with her and there's an article about her launch in Washington Post Magazine.

Anna Peele said:
In a friend's dining room in central Los Angeles, 27 hours before she will announce she's running for president of the United States, I ask self-help author and motivational speaker Marianne Williamson to perform a miracle.
"I'm afraid," I tell Williamson. Afraid about how bleak things feel under our current president; afraid of how angry people are. "I'm afraid of what will happen to the country," I say. "And that there's no going back."
Williamson leans back into her chair, lovely cheekbones jutting over the lower planes of her face. Her chin angles away, dropping a Melania-quality side-bang over one eye and leaving the other to narrow. Black-blazered arms cross in front of a white silk blouse. She opens her mouth and, in a voice like a powder brush dusting harp strings, begins miracle-working.
"Where there is light, there cannot be darkness," Williamson says. "And where there's love, there cannot be fear." I smile knowingly. In the past few weeks, I've read enough of Williamson's canon to be extremely familiar with this sentiment. All right, I think. Let's get to the miracle. Then Williamson begins berating me. "I think it behooves us to remember that those who walked across the bridge in Selma surely were traumatized," she says, in an ASMR murmur. Her scold feels like a scalp massage. "Surely the women's suffragettes were deeply traumatized and angry." I'm nodding, hypnotized by her certainty in my inadequacy. Yes, Marianne, I have neglected to contextualize my suffering! "American women are not porcelain dolls," she says pointedly. "This is a serious moment. It is a crisis. A crisis is never convenient."
Williamson's volume climbs and her pitch drops as she reaches the climax. "Too many people now are lost in their negative feelings about what's going on in our own little personal silo," she says, gesturing to my own little personal silo. "That's what makes the fear and the anger so debilitating. If we want to change our lives, we have to ask ourselves, deeply, what part we played. If I don't tend to my marriage, I'm going to lose my marriage. If we don't tend to our democracy, there are others who will more than happily take up the space. We [need to] realize, 'No, I'll show up for this, [as] other generations have shown up.' "
And lo, Marianne Williamson has delivered a surprisingly harsh miracle: For the first time since November 2016, I'm embarrassed enough to stop feeling sorry for myself about the state of America. I'm inspired.

and...


That is a huge boost.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,922
I wonder when the party's are going to splinter into 4.
Socialists, Democrats, Republicans and Tea Party.

You essentially cannot win the nomination of either of the two party's without playing to the fringes of each in the primary's.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
I wonder when the party's are going to splinter into 4.
Socialists, Democrats, Republicans and Tea Party.

You essentially cannot win the nomination of either of the two party's without playing to the fringes of each in the primary's.

It won't happen unless we get rid of FPTP somehow.

And the crazies have overrun the entire GOP already.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
On Break
Oct 25, 2017
32,776
I wonder when the party's are going to splinter into 4.
Socialists, Democrats, Republicans and Tea Party.

You essentially cannot win the nomination of either of the two party's without playing to the fringes of each in the primary's.
It won't happen. The system is designed so that there's only two viable options due to the existence of the presidency.
 

OtherWorldly

Banned
Dec 3, 2018
2,857
If mueller report really says trump did nothing wrong in Russia then this anyone can beat trump goes out of the window. Then you really need to go after electability. Who will get black, Hispanic , white, Christian, atheist, Jewish, Muslim combo vote and the "he is the progressive I want" goes out of the window because the center right electorate will not go left even with trump

The field at that point narrows considerably
 

Deleted member 22490

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,237
If mueller report really says trump did nothing wrong in Russia then this anyone can beat trump goes out of the window. Then you really need to go after electability. Who will get black, Hispanic , white, Christian, atheist, Jewish, Muslim combo vote and the "he is the progressive I want" goes out of the window because the center right electorate will not go left even with trump

The field at that point narrows considerably
How do you determine who is electable or not? What's electability measured in? Who is the most electable and who isn't?
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Wow this piece is hilarious

Lmao
They went out to look (like every Trump voter puff piece that year) for the real America and they learned the real America was horribly racist and backwards and they came away with the conclusion "Third Way will work". That Hale herself is from San Francisco adds a dimension of class dialectic to it and the level with which the dialectic failed to imprint on her worldview is reminiscent of politics debate on the internet.
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,132
Sydney
They went out to look (like every Trump voter puff piece that year) for the real America and they learned the real America was horribly racist and backwards and they came away with the conclusion "Third Way will work". That Hale herself is from San Francisco adds a dimension of class dialectic to it and the level with which the dialectic failed to imprint on her worldview is reminiscent of politics debate on the internet.

The bit about the union guys shit-talking the GOP and Scott Walker as well!

How did none of that make it in!
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Reparations
Oprah's spiritual counselor (Williamson/Oprah 2020?)
A little bit cuckoo for cocoa puffs
It is a task of our generation to recreate the American politeia, to awaken from our culture of distraction and re-engage the process of democracy with soulfulness and hope. Yes, we see there are problems in the world. But we believe in a universal force that, when activated by the human heart, has the power to make all things right. Such is the divine authority of love: to renew the heart, renew the nations, and ultimately, renew the world.
 
Oct 31, 2017
4,333
Unknown
https://www.marianne2020.com/issues/native-american-reconciliation
Making Amends toward Native American Reconciliation
As president, I would support:
  • Returning dominant control of the Black Hills of South Dakota to the Sioux Nation. The Black Hills, considered sacred to the Sioux, were promised by treaty in 1868 and should be returned as promised.
  • Halting construction of the Keystone pipeline, respecting Native tribes' sovereignty over their territory.
  • Efforts by Tribal Nations to regain and restore their communities and heritage.
  • Improvement of Native lands' justice systems, which, due mainly to chronic underfunding, make it difficult to enforce prosecution of non-natives accused of serious crimes.
  • Protection of tribal sovereignty. Tribal nations have important needs for infrastructure, education and economic development that are severely underfunded and under-resourced. My administration would continue to push for aid to strengthen tribal self-governance.
  • Protecting Native religious freedom. Protecting sacred sites and lands from sale, mining, or transfer without consultation with tribes.
  • Rethinking treaties that have limited Native Tribes' ability to make decisions about their own lands.
  • Continuing tribal nation summits annually held in Washington, with the full support of key cabinets agencies in order to discuss and garner feedback on issues relating to planned federal activities that might impact tribal nations.

Native American Justice Reform intersects with Harris's platform. Williamson should bring it up with Harris if she gets a chance. Get this message to the national stage.
That or one of the dozen or so other boring things mentioned like preserving sacred sites.
 
Oct 31, 2017
4,333
Unknown
Marianne Williamson is in this Simpsons picture.
DzU8RcAVAAAkm8J.jpg:large
 
Oct 31, 2017
4,333
Unknown
Marianne Williamson is a brass tacks spiritual figure. Religious expression is part of American culture and people.
This is from a talk last night at Harvard Divinity School.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,922
I love Kamala more the more I see her.

I genuinely thought she was not charismatic enough previously.
 

tabris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,236
So there is currently 16.01 trillion dollars per year of income paid out in the United States (2016 numbers).

There is 230 million adults.

For $12000 UBI a year, it would need 2.760 trillion of that pie. If we were to do a fair flat tax rate against everyone to redistribute that 1 to 1 - that would be a flat tax rate of 18% across all that 16.01 trillion dollars. So essentially the cross-over point of where you would start "losing money" is around $67000 a year. I think it's fair to ask everyone above that income to pay a bit more towards society.

Now I couldn't find exact stats for capital gains, but those should be included and currently it's almost a 1 to 1 for tax revenue between income and capital gains. So assuming that would follow same rule, and ideally a bit more - that would make the break or cross-over point of where you would start "losing money" to ~$130000 a year. Now that even becomes an easier number to swallow and a easier bracket of people to expect to pay a bit more.

So you can easily do a fair flat rate against everyone - no exceptions - just whatever earned from income and capital gains of flat 9% (divided 18% in half if we can also tax capital gains that) across everyone is divided out by 12 and paid to all 230 million adults.
 
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