2020 Democratic Presidential Primary | OT | Hickenlooper makes it to the debate

[A More Normal Bird]

Yes, they're trying to make it seem like they're bigger than they are. It's deliberate dishonesty.

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I fear you'd have a heart attack if ever read a journal of critical theory or somesuch, all these fringe philosophies trying to misrepresent how popular they are by positioning themselves in relation to others. But I'll try once more: they aren't necessarily ignoring numbers or trying to misrepresent them. They're trying to shift the spectrum of thought. Thoughts can exist even if very few people have them.

How about the Trump example in my previous post? Do you object to Trump being called far right given that he has the support of much of the mainstream right in the US?

 

[sphagnum]

I see! Willing to work with people by, checks notes, namecalling those not 100% aligned with you.

Bold strategy!

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I get along with Kirblar precisely because he thinks I'm a pinko monster and I think he's a neoliberal weasel.

 

[SaveWeyard]

The appropriate argument for UBI is that it's a necessary improvement to make the capitalist system function, since the labor market is currently dysfunctional owing to an imbalance of power between bargainers, which is no doubt creating all kinds of deadweight loss.

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Sure, I'm all for decreasing the suffering caused by the inherent instability of capitalism as much as possible.

 

[Kirblar]

I fear you'd have a heart attack if ever read a journal of critical theory or somesuch, all these fringe philosophies trying to misrepresent how popular they are by positioning themselves in relation to others. But I'll try once more: they aren't necessarily ignoring numbers or trying to misrepresent them. They're trying to shift the spectrum of thought. Thoughts can exist even if very few people have them.

How about the Trump example in my previous post? Do you object to Trump being called far right given that he has the support of much of the mainstream right in the US?

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No, it's an accurate representation of his position in the GOP caucus as part of the far right Freedom Caucus types.

He's the party leader but doesn't represent the party median whatsoever (which to be fair, is still really awful), he represents the most extreme parts of their base.

 

[pigeon]

You could conclude that the United States is more left than SA, sure. Turning that into "leftist" requires viewing left/right as purely relational and also excluding all political thought that is significantly to the left of USA, so your examples don't really work. Once again, I said spectrum of thought, not distribution of support.

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In that case, the United States is far left because we don't believe in entitlement to rule via the divine blood of royalty

 

[Mona]

I see! Willing to work with people by, checks notes, namecalling those not 100% aligned with you.

Bold strategy!

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thats how all work gets done on Era

 

[jack_package_200]

 

[pigeon]

Sure, I'm all for decreasing the suffering caused by the inherent instability of capitalism as much as possible.

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Let the record show that SaveWeyard is a contradiction-softener

 

[SaveWeyard]

Let the record show that SaveWeyard is a contradiction-softener

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I'm sorry Rosa, I didn't mean it!

Seriously though, stuff like UBI is the reform that I can get behind while keeping in mind that it is only a means of achieving the revolutionary aim, never the end goal itself.

 

[Steel]

If terms like Left or Right are only used in a relative sense, then they have absolutely no meaning. Wow, I guess half of the US are lefties and half are right wing because that's the only logical conclusion you can make if the terms are relative.

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The left and right spectrum has been relative since inception. When you're talking about left and right in terms of turkish politics it's not the same thing as talking about left and right in anything else. It's about who's against who more than specifics of political ideology.

They only have any real meaning when looking at where policies and ideas fall on the left-right spectrum. The fact that the left was hollowed out in the US 30 years ago doesn't magically make the center right the new left. It just means that there isn't much of a left.

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No, we have other terms to describe subsets of policy ideas. Granted, people misuse THOSE terms all the time too, meaning that if you're using shorthand terms in politics you're not communicating anything!

And this "the left died" in the last 30/50/XX years in the U.S. narrative some of you people trot out is kinda gross considering where the U.S. was on social issues in those decades and the fact that the policy platform of the overall democratic party only ever really shifted rightward with Bill Clinton.

You could conclude that the United States is more left than SA, sure. Turning that into "leftist" requires viewing left/right as purely relational and also excluding all political thought that is significantly to the left of USA, so your examples don't really work. Once again, I said spectrum of thought, not distribution of support.

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Uh, that still would make the U.S. left because there are a ton of different globally far right ideologies past and present that are basically on another planet of authoritarianism/chattel slavery than the very exclusive definition of leftism you purport.

 

[pigeon]

I see! Willing to work with people by, checks notes, namecalling those not 100% aligned with you.

Bold strategy!

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Pretty embarrassing lecture from thr person who keeps calling Bernie "not even a Democrat," surely the worst namecall of all

 

[samoyed]

UBI will likely be part of the transition from capitalism to socialism for the socialist utopia society of the future.

 

[Kirblar]

Sure, I'm all for decreasing the suffering caused by the inherent instability of capitalism as much as possible.

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This is what businesses try to do by capturing regulators. They hate uncertainty and love captive markets. They view a dying industry as "suffering", a dodo like Blockbuster gracefully exiting with class is the exception, not the norm.

The instability of capitalism is a feature, not a bug. Normal recessions killing off marginal businesses that were barely hanging on generally is just fine. But which parts of the instability you address and how you address it does matter, because things like France's labor laws will leave you without the die-off you're supposed to get from a recession that allows for room for growth elsewhere and instead leaves you slowly ripping the bandaid and bleeding jobs for a decade. (this was also an unintended consequences of the '08 bailouts as the financial sector didn't shrink like it needed to.) UBI is easy- other aspects are hard.

(this is not me directly addressing you, just using it as a jump off point fyi)

 

[Deleted member 3896]

Pretty embarrassing lecture from thr person who keeps calling Bernie "not even a Democrat," surely the worst namecall of all

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It's fun to conflate criticisms of presidential candidates with namecalling members of your own community.

Good try at a deflect!

 

[SaveWeyard]

Pretty embarrassing lecture from thr person who keeps calling Bernie "not even a Democrat," surely the worst namecall of all

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[Madison]

Pretty embarrassing lecture from thr person who keeps calling Bernie "not even a Democrat," surely the worst namecall of all

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God, the primary starts in a year and we are already at this part of the discussion

Im really excited y'all

 

[SaveWeyard]

The instability of capitalism is a feature, not a bug.

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Wow, I'm agreeing with neolibs left and right today!

 

[Clipjoint]

Who exactly do you think that 538 was isolating in those charts if not literally them. https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1098651547129573376

When I have said that Sanders' coalition was lefties, young people, and socially conservative Is, I was not pulling that out of my ass. (edit: social conservatives also exist in the first two groups as well, it crosscut all 3 but the Is were the most blatant.)

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My point is "Bernie-Bros" are painted as far-left privileged white males who were so upset about Bernie losing that they refused to vote for Clinton causing Trump to win.

Silver is actually showing that no, his left-wing vocal supporters (ie. "Bernie-Bros") actually largely supported her in the general election. The people who voted against her were the ones who only voted for Bernie because they hated Hillary, not because they loved Bernie.

Just further goes to show how polarizing of a candidate she was and why the Dems were crazy to nominate her when her favorability was so low.

 

[TarNaru33]

This is what businesses try to do by capturing regulators. They hate uncertainty and love captive markets. They view a dying industry as "suffering", a dodo like Blockbuster gracefully exiting with class is the exception, not the norm.

The instability of capitalism is a feature, not a bug. Normal recessions killing off marginal businesses that were barely hanging on generally is just fine. But which parts of the instability you address and how you address it does matter, because things like France's labor laws will leave you without the die-off you're supposed to get from a recession that allows for room for growth elsewhere and instead leaves you slowly ripping the bandaid and bleeding jobs for a decade. (this was also an unintended consequences of the '08 bailouts as the financial sector didn't shrink like it needed to.) UBI is easy- other aspects are hard.

(this is not me directly addressing you, just using it as a jump off point fyi)

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Da fuq? Have you always held that position? I'm surprised.

My point is "Bernie-Bros" are painted as far-left privileged white males who were so upset about Bernie losing that they refused to vote for Clinton causing Trump to win.

Silver is actually showing that no, his left-wing vocal supporters (ie. "Bernie-Bros") actually largely supported her in the general election. The people who voted against her were the ones who only voted for Bernie because they hated Hillary, not because they loved Bernie.

Just further goes to show how polarizing of a candidate she was and why the Dems were crazy to nominate her when her favorability was so low.

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Hmm, I have your same position, to an extent. Even though I want to separate those assholes from actual Bernie supporters, it is something people against those types seem to not want (or have difficulty) to distinguish from actual Bernie supporters.

Its obvious bias imo.

 

[samoyed]

Marx: Capitalism is unstable and disrupts its own stability, this is why socialism will happen.
Kirblar: Capitalism is unstable and disrupts its own stability, that's how you know it's working.

 

[Iloelemen]

I see! Willing to work with people by, checks notes, namecalling those not 100% aligned with you.

Bold strategy!

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Hmmm..

This post reeks of intentions to cause in fighting and disarray towards people who actually are willing to work together.

But yeah, it seems totally productive to single out a group for doing something (namecalling) that pretty much all groups do. That doesn't necessarily mean reductionist namecalling is excusable, of course not, but singling out a particular group as if they're the only ones doing it?

 

[TarNaru33]

God, the primary starts in a year and we are already at this part of the discussion

Im really excited y'all

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Pretty sure pigeon and Spaghnum are being lighthearted in their response.

Not sure of Mercury, but I'm biased.

 

[Tiger Priest]

Well that wouldn't really be universal, which is the whole point. Like, I know the popular argument is we need UBI to help combat increased automation, but that is a specter that is wholly overblown, imo. Technological improvements that reduce the amount of labor that is necessary have been happening for a long time, with the current result being a preponderance of bullshit jobs where people really don't need to be working for 40 hours a day, but are forced to due to this managerial spirit of checking boxes, useless meetings, and micromanagement of workers' time, not really an increase in unemployment. Also, if all you're worried about is automation costing people their jobs, it isn't really necessary to have a social welfare program that is universal.

That's why a better argument for UBI stems from notions of justice, equality, and freedom, and why reparations would fit in nicely.

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Yes, there's a rather simple argument to be made against UBI from this perspective. There has never been more automation than ever before at this moment and simultaneously there have never been more people working in human history than at this moment. Also the inflationary pressures of giving everyone (including someone like me who doesn't need it) an extra $12000 a year would lead to rents and food prices going up very quickly. We kind of have UBI already with negative effective tax rates so maybe that should be expanded.

 

[eosos]

What's the recent take on Pete Buttigiege? Seems like my ideal candidate, think his biggest uphill battle will be name recongintion. If he gets past that I feel like he'd be prime though.

 

[samoyed]

What's the recent take on Pete Buttigiege? Seems like my ideal candidate, think his biggest uphill battle will be name recongintion.

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That's how everyone feels about him. He talks a good game but is seriously who?.gif for most of America.

And unlike Schultz he's not a billionaire so he doesn't get free coverage and publicity.

 

[Kirblar]

My point is "Bernie-Bros" are painted as far-left privileged white males who were so upset about Bernie losing that they refused to vote for Clinton causing Trump to win.

Silver is actually showing that no, his left-wing vocal supporters (ie. "Bernie-Bros") actually largely supported her in the general election. The people who voted against her were the ones who only voted for Bernie because they hated Hillary, not because they loved Bernie.

Just further goes to show how polarizing of a candidate she was and why the Dems were crazy to nominate her when her favorability was so low.

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The common thread of the "Bernie Bros" (and gals) was generally racism and misogyny. Which, while most common in the "I" area, also did overlap in the other two as well, as those "economically left but not very left socially" types were and are a thing (Hi Michael Tracey & co), and the overwhelming numbers among young people meant some would be there as well.

What's the recent take on Pete Buttigiege? Seems like my ideal candidate, think his biggest uphill battle will be name recongintion. If he gets past that I feel like he'd be prime though.

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He seems to be taking the role of "things we need to do but can't actually say on the campaign trail"- he has a problem with ascending politically via the normal ladder because his state is just going redder and redder. He probably should go pull a McAulliffe and be an insider for a while after this.

 

[Deleted member 3896]

Hmmm..

This post reeks of intentions to cause in fighting and disarray towards people who actually are willing to work together.

But yeah, it seems totally productive to single out a group for doing something (namecalling) that pretty much all groups do.

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Right, so this mini-thread was in response to labelling people "milquetoasts" and/ or other namecalling.

Would you say namecalling is a good foot forward for "people who actually are willing to work together"?

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

The left and right spectrum has been relative since inception. When you're talking about left and right in terms of turkish politics it's not the same thing as talking about left and right in anything else. It's about who's against who more than specifics of political ideology.



No, we have other terms to describe subsets of policy ideas. Granted, people misuse THOSE terms all the time too, meaning that if you're using shorthand terms in politics you're not communicating anything!

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In that case, are you arguing that you can never say that a country is Left or Right? I mean, if it's all relative then every country is right in the center because they have their own left and right. Without some sort of relative baseline for what Left and Right mean, the terms are completely meaningless.

And this "the left died" in the last 30/50/XX years in the U.S. narrative some of you people trot out is kinda gross considering where the U.S. was on social issues in those decades and the fact that the policy platform of the overall democratic party only ever really shifted rightward with Bill Clinton.

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Good thing I said 30 years, not 50 years, but cute strawman. Bill Clinton was elected President 27 years ago, and the rightward push had already started a few years before then in the mid to late 80s (you don't get a guy like Clinton elected President if the party hasn't moved to the right at all). I'm not aware of any person who argues that the Left died 50 years ago, because that was a point in which there was still a social democracy movement in the US.

Are you going to argue that neoliberalism has not been the defining movement of the Democrats for the past 30 years? Under neoliberalsim you can still have leftward movement on social issues, to be sure, and obviously we've made some great strides in that time, particularly with regards to LGBT rights, but there has been a strong rightward push economically (which disproportionately hurts POC who make up a larger portion of the working class than white people do).

 

[SaveWeyard]

Right, so this mini-thread was in response to labelling people "milquetoasts" and/ or other namecalling.

Would you say namecalling is a good foot forward for "people who actually are willing to work together"?

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It started with you calling Bernie a centrist.

 

[Autodidact]

Da fuq? Have you always held that position? I'm surprised.

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I mean, his position has always been that the capitalist system should have a comprehensive safety net including universal healthcare, generous unemployment insurance, affordable housing, educational assistance, etc, to mitigate the effects of capitalism and ensure that all citizens have a minimum standard of living and equal opportunity to succeed.

You know, what social democrats, not ~~~neoliberal shills~~~, believe... and what like 99% of the community in PoliEra believes.

 

[Deleted member 3896]

It started with you calling Bernie a centrist.

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It's fun to conflate criticisms of presidential candidates with namecalling members of your own community.

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[Iloelemen]

Right, so this mini-thread was in response to labelling people "milquetoasts" and/ or other namecalling.

Would you say namecalling is a good foot forward for "people who actually are willing to work together"?

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No, that's why I said "That doesn't necessarily mean reductionist namecalling is excusable, of course not,"
but like I said "but singling out a particular group as if they're the only ones doing it?"

 

[eosos]

That's how everyone feels about him. He talks a good game but is seriously who?.gif for most of America.

And unlike Schultz he's not a billionaire so he doesn't get free coverage and publicity.

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The most tragic piece of it all😢

 

[Kirblar]

Da fuq? Have you always held that position? I'm surprised.

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Yes? People being able to enter a market is good! Businesses dying when they're not able to succeed is also generally good! The only constant is change, embrace it. Just not climate change, that's still bad.

 

[SaveWeyard]

Guess I'm free to call Warren an indigenous-appropriating white feminist and Harris a top cop, then.

 

[Deleted member 3896]

Guess I'm free to call Warren an indigenous-appropriating white feminist and Harris a top cop, then.

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Opportunistic, petty, and vulgar work too

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[A More Normal Bird]

Just to reiterate to everyone I'm responding to, I'm arguing against being overly prescriptivist about the use of a simple heuristic to categorise political thought, because I saw someone misunderstand its use as a rhetorical device. If you're responding with "well then this is actually left/right" you've missed the point.

No, it's an accurate representation of his position in the GOP caucus as part of the far right Freedom Caucus types.

He's the party leader but doesn't represent the party median whatsoever (which to be fair, is still really awful), he represents the most extreme parts of their base.

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So Trump is extreme, but managed to win the primary and the rest of the base voted for him to be president? It almost sounds like you're categorising the spectrum of thought in the GOP based on philosophical position.

In that case, the United States is far left because we don't believe in entitlement to rule via the divine blood of royalty

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Putting aside that the way that capitalism is often deified in the US isn't that far off, you've done the same thing you did in your last post which makes me think you've not really understood my point. You keep just naming things to the right of the US to justify it being "left". If we're talking about the entire spectrum of historical political philosophy, that includes anti-capitalist thought, anarchism etc... And since it was only tacit in my previous post, I'll emphasise that left/right is often not treated as purely relational (see KuwabaraTheMan 's posts).

Uh, that still would make the U.S. left because there are a ton of different globally far right ideologies past and present that are basically on another planet of authoritarianism/chattel slavery than the very exclusive definition of leftism you purport.

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I'm not advocating a very exclusive definition of leftism. I'm pointing out that people can use left/right in different ways; in this case, the distinction between the descriptions of "the left" and "the right" as they exist in a particular context and "left" and "right" as they exist in the corpus of political thought. For the rest of your post, see my response to pigeon above.

 

[TarNaru33]

I mean, his position has always been that the capitalist system should have a comprehensive safety net including universal healthcare, generous unemployment insurance, affordable housing, educational assistance, etc, to mitigate the effects of capitalism and ensure that all citizens have a minimum standard of living and equal opportunity to succeed.

You know, what social democrats, not ~~~neoliberal shills~~~, believe... and what like 99% of the community in PoliEra believes.

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Good point, but this is the first time I am seeing him explicitly call the negatives of capitalism a feature, its significantly different than acting like it's a bug people need protection from.

Why do all of your posts have to end that way? Lol. I cant tell if that is supposed to be aimed at me or not.

Yes? People being able to enter a market is good! Businesses dying when they're not able to succeed is also generally good! The only constant is change, embrace it. Just not climate change, that's still bad.

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Yes, I do recall you being one to say that. I think you and I agree on most things. I guess I got the wrong impression regarding your stance on capitalism.

Agreed, climate change is a change we cant allow.

 

[y2dvd]

Bernie already said he's looking for his VP to be minority and a woman, so Yang/Buttigiege is out. It's not gonna be any PoC-woman either, but someone to carry his torch. Harris is out. His VP pick is gonna be none of the current candidates.

 

[Iloelemen]

Does anynone think reductionist name-calling is a good thing? I love Janet Jackson. I think she's a really interesting artist.

We walked along the beach
What a moonlit night
He held my hand in his
He kissed me
He said "I wanna spend my life with you... I want you for my wife"
Just then I thought

[CHORUS:]
What about the times you lied to me
What about the times you said no one would want me
What about all the shit you've done to me
What about that, what about that
What about the times you yelled at me
What about the times I cried, you wouldn't even hold me
What about those things
What about that, what about that

I took a pause, then a deep sigh
He looked right into my eyes as he said
"I know I didn't say somethin wrong"
I didn't have the courage to say
But then I thought

[CHORUS]

[CHORUS 2]
What about the times you hit my face
What about the times you kept on when I said "no more please"
What about those things
What about that, what about that
What about the times you shamed me
What about the times you said you didn't fuck her
She only gave you head
What about that, what about that

Don't wanna live my life
In misery
Don't tell me you did it cuz you love me
I don't believe

I'm sick and tired
Your deceptive games
Wonder where you have been
I can't live life wonderin

My heart was poundin
But the time had come
To stop lettin my whisperin heart control me
And tellin my screamin mind what to do
I looked him straight in the eyes and then I said

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[SaveWeyard]

Those are not trivial concerns. Warren's behavior was and continues to be very harmful to Native people and pushes this narrative of race realism that I'm very much not okay with. Her apologies were soft and didn't show she understands how to be an ally to Indigenous peoples.

 

[Steel]

Without some sort of relative baseline for what Left and Right mean, the terms are completely meaningless.

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That's the point. But people don't always use it as a relative baseline, they use it as an absolute one. And the absolute they measure against is not even consistent.

I'm not advocating a very exclusive definition of leftism. I'm pointing out that people can use left/right in different ways; in this case, the distinction between the descriptions of "the left" and "the right" as they exist in a particular context and "left" and "right" as they exist in the corpus of political thought. For the rest of your post, see my response to pigeon above.

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And it's that very random use of the spectrum that makes it useless and a conversational dead-end.

And addressing your other point: anarchism isn't an exclusively left-right ideology in the first place.

 

[YamchasRevenge]

Bernie already said he's looking for his VP to be minority and a woman, so Yang/Buttigiege is out. It's not gonna be any PoC-woman either, but someone to carry his torch. Harris is out. His VP pick is gonna be none of the current candidates.

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Harris is out even though she pretty much supports everything Bernie does? I don't get it. The VP shouldn't be a purity pick either.

 

[Kirblar]

Good thing I said 30 years, not 50 years, but cute strawman. Bill Clinton was elected President 27 years ago, and the rightward push had already started a few years before then in the mid to late 80s (you don't get a guy like Clinton elected President if the party hasn't moved to the right at all). I'm not aware of any person who argues that the Left died 50 years ago, because that was a point in which there was still a social democracy movement in the US.

Are you going to argue that neoliberalism has not been the defining movement of the Democrats for the past 30 years? Under neoliberalsim you can still have leftward movement on social issues, to be sure, and obviously we've made some great strides in that time, particularly with regards to LGBT rights, but there has been a strong rightward push economically (which disproportionately hurts POC who make up a larger portion of the working class than white people do).

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Reagan/Greenspan economics basically starts with Reagan and whoever succeded Volcker and ends with the Great Recession, yes. But part of understanding why that happened is understanding why that lurch rightward happened when it did- it wasn't just the racial backlash, it was that the left investing so heavily into bad economics (the poopoo economics to Reagan's Voodoo economics) completely blew out the balance of power within the field. A bunch of stuff that had previously been up for debate suddenly really wasn't up for debate anymore, and if you had been on the outside of that line, you weren't getting taken seriously anymore. This is why Warren was a Republican in the '80s - the combination of liberal social views and middle of the road economic views, parties that were still ideologically unsorted on social issues and the conservative tilt of the boomers overall could easily put you in the GOP simply due to the economics favored on the left in the 60s/70s being a total turnoff.

That over-correction rightward led to bad things like the Reagan tax cuts but also good things like the bank deregulation under Clinton. (unit banking is very, very bad.) And because the shift had occurred because a chunk of the political spectrum had become irrelevant overnight, it's taken a long time for newer generations in the field (and older ones like Warren shifting) to readjust and adopt more modern positions pulling the center back to the left in the field.

Just to reiterate to everyone I'm responding to, I'm arguing against being overly prescriptivist about the use of a simple heuristic to categorise political thought, because I saw someone misunderstand its use as a rhetorical device. If you're responding with "well then this is actually left/right" you've missed the point.

So Trump is extreme, but managed to win the primary and the rest of the base voted for him to be president? It almost sounds like you're categorising the spectrum of thought in the GOP based on philosophical position.

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No, I don't misunderstand. It's not an arbitrary rhetorical term. It's a descriptive one about someone's place in modern politics. And yes, Trump is extreme and managed to win the primary. Corbyn, Le Pen, Goldwater, etc.- it's not unique to the GOP.

I mean, his position has always been that the capitalist system should have a comprehensive safety net including universal healthcare, generous unemployment insurance, affordable housing, educational assistance, etc, to mitigate the effects of capitalism and ensure that all citizens have a minimum standard of living and equal opportunity to succeed.

You know, what social democrats, not ~~~neoliberal shills~~~, believe... and what like 99% of the community in PoliEra believes.

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Yeah, I'm explicitly referring to business, not personal living standards. As we like to remind the GOP, Corporations are not People.

 

[Unknown Unknown]

Those are not trivial concerns. Warren's behavior was and continues to be very harmful to Native people and pushes this narrative of race realism that I'm very much not okay with. Her apologies were soft and didn't show she understands how to be an ally to Indigenous peoples.

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Guess I'm free to call Warren an indigenous-appropriating white feminist and Harris a top cop, then.

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What does feminist have to do with it? By making it the object are you saying feminism caused or contributes to the problem?

 

[pigeon]

Putting aside that the way that capitalism is often deified in the US isn't that far off, you've done the same thing you did in your last post which makes me think you've not really understood my point.

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I dunno, my theory is I understood it and found it unconvincing.

You keep just naming things to the right of the US to justify it being "left". If we're talking about the entire spectrum of historical political philosophy, that includes anti-capitalist thought, anarchism etc...

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Right. In other words, you're naming things to the left of the US to justify it being "center" or "right." We're literally doing the same thing, and then you're pointing to me doing it and saying "well that doesn't make any difference." That's not very convincing!

And since it was only tacit in my previous post, I'll emphasise that left/right is often not treated as purely relational (see KuwabaraTheMan 's posts).

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Yes, I know. More often than not an arbitrary "spectrum of thought" is assumed into existence in order to place ideas on it. But that spectrum is arbitrary, which is the other reason why it is relevant to bring up examples of further-right thought that are conventionally disregarded when considering such a spectrum, even though those examples are literally present and indeed dominant today in major developed countries. That's literally the original point that was being made that you jumped off of like two pages ago.

 

[pigeon]

What does feminist have to do with it? By making it the object are you saying feminism caused or contributes to the problem?

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Weyard is saying that Warren's brand of feminism is a white supremacist brand which develops feminist thought only in a non-intersectional, white-privileging way.

I'm not sure I agree with that, but it is a conventionally understood term among feminists of color, I think.

 

[sphagnum]

It's fun to conflate criticisms of presidential candidates with namecalling members of your own community.

Good try at a deflect!

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People often build rapport by jokingly insulting each other. If I knew that revisionist was such a dirty word, I would have conceded from the start and said Stalinist instead!

 

[sphagnum]

BERNIE SANDERS IS A SOCIAL FASCIST

 

[pigeon]

BERNIE SANDERS IS A SOCIAL FASCIST

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Well actually he's a fascist socialist