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Oct 31, 2017
4,333
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its nuts, the american people have no idea whats about to hit them

you were never going to "make america great again", that country doesn't even exist anymore, things are changing fast and people need to seriously get their shit together so we can effectively transition into it
It's very exciting. Opening discussions about a fundamentally new idea as a solution to foreseeable problems across the coalition.
 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
Im open to judging people on their legislative ability but other than Warren, who I assume Sanders would lean on if he won I dont know what the arguments would be to say someone is a better legislator.

That being said after the fillibuster comments i'd prefer Warren unless Bernie changes his mind.

Warren and Bernie's relationship is weird, from what I can tell while they have common ground she's the work horse in congress while he's doing other stuff like amendments. They don't seem to "team up" as much as they should. They have disagreements, too, as she's a red blooded capitalist and he is not.

Yeah, Warren's great.
 
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y2dvd

Member
Nov 14, 2017
2,481
I truly don't believe Sanders would ever pick anyone he feels has attacked him in during the primary process. And Harris and the rest are not about to hit him while wearing Socker Boppers. Her own probably doesn't matter.

I don't think this is the correct framing. He doesn't give a damn if you attacked him personally or not. It's more "do your policies aligns with his?"

What would happen if Bernie gets the nom and Harris isn't picked for VP?

What would happen if Harris gets the nom? Bernie gets the VP pick?

Assuming either wants the VP title in the first place.
 

TarNaru33

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,045
You act like bernie's the only one who can see this, as if other candidates are idiots, and haven't figured any of this out.

I'm confused, I did not imply at all that Bernie is the only one that can see this.

My current position is Bernie, Biden, Gillibrand, Klobachar, and anyone else against nuking the filibuster do not see it or are acting like they cant for whatever reason.

One of my major gripes with Bernie has always been that I know he wouldn't prioritize fixing our political system.

Nuking the filibuster
Making All of our territories states
Increasing the House
Stacking the courts
Restoring and strengthening Voting Rights (I believe the legislature would push this on him though)

And much more that no candidate is even talking about. No one serious is talking about how dysfunctional the Senate is becoming and wont until majority of the country realizes 30% of the country has more say than they do.

I can only hope like some here said, that he is just talking politics and that he would be for nuking the filibuster when given the chance.
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,739
I'm confused, I did not imply at all that Bernie is the only one that can see this.

My current position is Bernie, Biden, Gillibrand, Klobachar, and anyone else against nuking the filibuster do not see it or are acting like they cant for whatever reason.

One of my major gripes with Bernie has always been that I know he wouldn't prioritize fixing our political system.

Nuking the filibuster
Making All of our territories states
Increasing the House
Stacking the courts
Restoring and strengthening Voting Rights (I believe the legislature would push this on him though)

And much more that no candidate is even talking about. No one serious is talking about how dysfunctional the Senate is becoming and wont until majority of the country realizes 30% of the country has more say than they do.

I can only hope like some here said, that he is just talking politics and that he would be for nuking the filibuster when given the chance.

I apologize, I misread what you posted.
 

Opto

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,546
I felt lukewarm on Bernie until someone from the right started criticizing him and making up lies then I woke up with a Bernie 2020 tattoo
 

Jas

Member
Oct 28, 2017
201
I think it has to do with the fact that Dems do not control 50 seats yet.

He has in the past been open to nuking the filibuster.


Yep, I just saw the interview with Chris Hayes his emphasis was on how Democrats don't have control of the Senate right now and that's why he stayed away from answering the question.

The link below is to the interview where Chris asked Bernie about the filibuster...

 

Ichthyosaurus

Banned
Dec 26, 2018
9,375
I don't think this is the correct framing. He doesn't give a damn if you attacked him personally or not. It's more "do your policies aligns with his?"

What would happen if Bernie gets the nom and Harris isn't picked for VP?

What would happen if Harris gets the nom? Bernie gets the VP pick?

Assuming either wants the VP title in the first place.

Bernie wouldn't care about ordinary posters say about him but he will when his competitors do. Hillary didn't go all out on him and their hatred for each other is legendary. He's not as good as Obama at mending fences, never has been and while he does compromise thats not what he's down for, either. I don't see him accepting a VP from anyone, he wants to be on top. When he feels like he's losing all options are on the table. Now, maybe he's changed - Hillary did, but I'd have to see it myself before simply assuming all water is under the bridge and he's a new man.

That's true.
 

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
While at this point nuking the filibuster is likely necessary to get... Well, anything at all done, I wouldn't want anyone to say they would while running.
 
OP
OP
pigeon

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,447
Hot take: the only way you'll actually convince 51 senators to nuke the filibuster is if you run on it and win, allowing you to lie about having a mandate for it.

People think McConnell hasn't nuked because of some deep strategic plan but all evidence suggests the individual senators actually just really don't want to. So all that actually matters is what might change their opinions.
 

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,377
Not sure if it's been posted, and you don't have to watch because it's Fox, but Yang confirms the DNC has reached out to him and he will be at the debates in the summer.

 
Oct 31, 2017
4,333
Unknown
Could UBI help bring the reparations discussion into the trillions of dollars as some think it should be?


This interview doesn't appear to have been confirmed by Williamson yet but if it's happening maybe she'll share her first impressions on Yang's book and if she thinks UBI can work with reparations.
 

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,377
Could UBI help bring the reparations discussion into the trillions of dollars as some think it should be?


This interview doesn't appear to have been confirmed by Williamson yet but if it's happening maybe she'll share her first impressions on Yang's book and if she thinks UBI can work with reparations.


As much as I respect the idea of UBI being a form of reparations (I'm assuming you're referring to what Warren and Harris have said regarding minorities on this matter), I imagine this will actually create hostility for the idea. One of the things Americans have grown to hate is the conditionality of programs, so even if UBI started as a platform for the poorest, or in particular income groups, or to minority groups, all of these create landmines and animosity.

If the program has to start on conditionality for it to grow into universality, what we start with is key. Nothing saying you couldn't mix all of the above into the conditioned bracket, of course.
 
Jan 15, 2019
4,393
Not sure if it's been posted, and you don't have to watch because it's Fox, but Yang confirms the DNC has reached out to him and he will be at the debates in the summer.


I'm surprised he claims the DNC already reached out about including him in debates. I wonder if there's anything to read into about that, because I know for sure he doesn't meet the criteria yet. Maybe the DNC has the heads up that folks like Hickenlooper and McCauliffe and Inslee don't plan on running so they want to keep the debate stage(s) as full as possible, at least for the first couple debates. If we had two debates with 7-8 candidates each, I think that'd strike a nice balance of giving everyone a chance to make their case and also presenting a broad spectrum of ideas. At 9-10 candidates per night I worry that we get into the territory of people desperately jockeying for air time.
 

Deleted member 14459

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,874
Again, guys. It's amazing. Black people were worried that the Democrats would follow Sanders' and other white males' idiotic proposal of ditching social issues and were told to shut up and get in the back of the bus.

Three, just three so far, Democrats said they support reparations and suddenly, trying to cater to just one demographic is considered a losing strategy. Considering the GOP is ALWAYS going say that the Dems wants to take money from whitey and give it to blacky anyway.

Like seriously, guys. Thanks for not having the Negro's back. Let's add "white liberal" to that the MLK quote as well.

I'm for reparations but the candidates need to give a bit more indication what they mean with that word - Harris' being serious "about taking an approach that would change policies and structures and make real investments in black communities." - could be understood as tacking on reparations-label to existing policies if not more clear indication how she understand the word; Warren the same as no details given except that the word was mentioned "amid her calls for the federal government to provide special home-buying assistance to residents of communities that were adversely affected by "redlining," the discriminatory practice of denying mortgages, usually in poor and nonwhite areas. ". Williamson I believe is the only one who has come out with some details, and that number is ridiculously low: "I believe $100 billion given to a council to apply this money to economic projects and educational projects of renewal for that population is simply a debt to be paid" - Williamson has put more emphasis on a "national apology" and this includes Native Americans - to my understanding none of the other candidates make a link between reparations and Native Americans.

yet that is not how I think most people understand reparations, but it is absolutely a good thing that we now have three candidates who use that word, whatever they mean with it - they way they use it (loosely) might also mean that this is actually embraced by the majority of primary contenders. Compare these ideas about reparations e.g. to Conyers' HR40, which was geared towards direct compensation "to the descendants of enslaved Africans". I mean in this very thread most people write about it as if it means a kind of UBI to descendant of enslaved Africans and/or all African Americans, which sounds completely different than what the candidates seem to talk about. Researchers considered foremost experts of reparations, such as William Darrity, has made it clear that while institutional/community investments are part of the "portfolio" they do not replace that "virtually essential that some part in the way which reparations are paid out constitutes what people refer to as a check to all eligible Americans"
 
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Vector

Member
Feb 28, 2018
6,637
Just to clarify, you're not talking about Reid here?
I didn't mean to demean Reid, since he seems to be on the right side, but mostly the people attacking Bernie for "not being a Democrat" who use that as a pretext for not supporting a populist

I can see why the wording of my post could be confusing though
 
Oct 25, 2017
17,537
Posted this in Poliera but it still made me chuckle



Dz-BLeEUcAAQEF5.jpg
 

y2dvd

Member
Nov 14, 2017
2,481
Bernie wouldn't care about ordinary posters say about him but he will when his competitors do. Hillary didn't go all out on him and their hatred for each other is legendary. He's not as good as Obama at mending fences, never has been and while he does compromise thats not what he's down for, either. I don't see him accepting a VP from anyone, he wants to be on top. When he feels like he's losing all options are on the table. Now, maybe he's changed - Hillary did, but I'd have to see it myself before simply assuming all water is under the bridge and he's a new man.

That's true.

Can you detail this hatred? You make it sound like it was personal. As far as I'm aware, Bernie never attacked anyone personally besides Trump specifically. He aggressively attacks the system. If a candidate is part of the problem then so be it. Bernie didn't care to use this email scandal again Hillary. He just talked about corruption.

I think he actually would've taken a back seat if he honestly thought there was a better candidate. This being on top doesn't make sense when all these years, he finally decided to run for president in '16. If his ego is that big he would've attempted a run it years ago. But even then I don't equate running for president to be egotistical by default anyways. Didn't think that of Obama and didn't think that here.
 

Suiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,931
Can you detail this hatred? You make it sound like it was personal. As far as I'm aware, Bernie never attacked anyone personally besides Trump specifically. He aggressively attacks the system. If a candidate is part of the problem then so be it. Bernie didn't care to use this email scandal again Hillary. He just talked about corruption.

I think he actually would've taken a back seat if he honestly thought there was a better candidate. This being on top doesn't make sense when all these years, he finally decided to run for president in '16. If his ego is that big he would've attempted a run it years ago. But even then I don't equate running for president to be egotistical by default anyways. Didn't think that of Obama and didn't think that here.

That is a hell of a claim. Wow
 

ProfessorLobo

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,523
I'm confused, I did not imply at all that Bernie is the only one that can see this.

My current position is Bernie, Biden, Gillibrand, Klobachar, and anyone else against nuking the filibuster do not see it or are acting like they cant for whatever reason.

One of my major gripes with Bernie has always been that I know he wouldn't prioritize fixing our political system.

Nuking the filibuster
Making All of our territories states
Increasing the House
Stacking the courts
Restoring and strengthening Voting Rights (I believe the legislature would push this on him though)

And much more that no candidate is even talking about. No one serious is talking about how dysfunctional the Senate is becoming and wont until majority of the country realizes 30% of the country has more say than they do.

I can only hope like some here said, that he is just talking politics and that he would be for nuking the filibuster when given the chance.
Yep. In this country minority positions have consistently held majority power. Any candidate that doesn't make this front and center won't make me too excited.

I'm confused as to why this wasn't fixed when we had the Senate, house and presidency.
 

Indiana Jones

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,177
The brutal reality is that a Biden presidency and a Sanders presidency wouldn't be drastically different as far as whats achievable. Translating rhetoric into actual policy that can pass Congress is a herculean, once-in-a-generation task. But we can for sure have liberal courts and appointments in the executive branch.

Rally behind whoever wins.
 
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