• Introducing Image Options for ResetEra 2.0! Check the left side navigation bar to show or hide images, avatars, covers, and embedded media. More details at the link.

2020 Democratic Presidential Primary | OT | Biden Mulls Abrams as Running Mate

Oct 25, 2017
509
My point is we know pretty much as much about Trump's taxes as we do about Bernie's.
I'd argue that a full tax return is a bit better than almost literally nothing from Trump, but I agree those are pretty meager offerings.

When do candidates typically release tax returns? In the primaries or during the actual election cycle?
 

xbhaskarx

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,567
NorCal
When do candidates typically release tax returns? In the primaries or during the actual election cycle?
Well apparently Beto should have done it today, on literally the first day of his campaign, whereas the Sanders family was too busy campaigning in 2016 to get around to it because that would involve going to Vermont and firing up TurboTax and how can anyone really be expected to do that
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2016-04-11/jane-sanders-we-will-release-full-tax-returns
 

Kitsunelaine

My favorite cake is pie
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,273
for some reason I was expecting a bad response, hence the "nvm" edit, but this is acceptable

but y'all bet your asses that I'll harp on beto if he doesn't do the thing we're expecting of everyone else, it's way too early in the game to judge him the same way we're judging a 2016 candidate who still hasn't done it though
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,466
I'd argue that a full tax return is a bit better than almost literally nothing from Trump, but I agree those are pretty meager offerings.

When do candidates typically release tax returns? In the primaries or during the actual election cycle?
Edit: Correction to my correction, the tax return listed on this site is Trump's 1040.

https://www.taxnotes.com/presidential-tax-returns

Also, Gillibrand has released 11, Warren 10, Biden 18, fucking Jeb! 32. In general, though, in the modern day people release it in the primaries.
 
dude jokes about moving the goalpost and you immediately do just that
To be pedantic, posters did use the plural "tax returns," which implies more than a single year, as a single year of filing is referred to (per the IRS) as a "tax return" (not plural). To suggest that is moving the goalposts is ignoring the specific language being used (as well as decades of precedent).
 

xbhaskarx

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,567
NorCal
To be pedantic, posters did use the plural "tax returns," which implies more than a single year, as a single year of filing is referred to (per the IRS) as a "tax return" (not plural). To suggest that is moving the goalposts is ignoring the specific language being used (as well as decades of precedent).
That's not being pedantic... besides the decades of precedent that you noted, I specifically used not just the plural but the phrase FULL TAX RETURNS

Days since Beto announced and didn't release his full tax returns: 0.5 maybe?

Days since Bernie announced he was running in 2016 and didn't release his full tax returns: A LOT
 
Oct 28, 2017
493
So the standard was one year of tax returns, until I "moved the goalpost"?

Do any Bernie supporters actually pay even the most cursory attention to American politics?

man they don't even pay attention to the threads they're responding to
Fuck off with this shit. How is acceptable to continually insult supporters of bernie in this thread? Imagine if bernie supporters insulted Kamala's supporters constantly.
 
Oct 28, 2017
749
https://twitter.com/kfile/status/1106251433895186433

Weren’t we told Bernie is a democratic socialist not a socialist socialist
I don't understand. A democratic socialist would definitely want to nationalize where they can, right?

Not that it really matters, since Bernie would mostly function like a social democrat as president, given the hyper capitalist nature of the States. Plus, he's gonna be too busy dealing with other shit to be nationalizing stuff willy nilly.
 

Cheebo

Banned
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,889
Ann Arbor, MI
User Banned (1 day): ignoring modpost
Fuck off with this shit. How is acceptable to continually insult supporters of bernie in this thread? Imagine if bernie supporters insulted Kamala's supporters constantly.
A Bernie fan in this very thread this morning got banned for making sexist insults against young girls who support Kamala though.....
 

brainchild

GameXplain
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
5,334
Minnesota
Official Staff Communication
Hey, knock off all the sniping. That goes for everyone.
Question, do you all have a plan to make staff communications more visible whenever they get posted and someone refreshes/enters a thread? There are way too many times these kinds of posts go unnoticed and I've been banned before simply due to the lack of their visibility. Just curious if there's a plan to improve the visibility of staff communications, perhaps similar to how the site's update notifications appear.
 

B-Dubs

Oh well, what the hell
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
11,957
Question, do you all have a plan to make staff communications more visible whenever they get posted and someone refreshes/enters a thread? There are way too many times these kinds of posts go unnoticed and I've been banned before simply due to the lack of their visibility. Just curious if there's a plan to improve the visibility of staff communications, perhaps similar to how the site's update notifications appear.
There already is. See at the top and bottom of the thread where it says "Staff posts"? It's right there as soon as it's made.

EDIT: Also, there's generally a decent period for people to refresh and see it. We try and give people every opportunity to not get banned for ignoring a modpost.
 

xbhaskarx

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,567
NorCal
I don't understand. A democratic socialist would definitely want to nationalize where they can, right?

Not that it really matters, since Bernie would mostly function like a social democrat as president, given the hyper capitalist nature of the States. Plus, he's gonna be too busy dealing with other shit to be nationalizing stuff willy nilly.
See now this is shifting goalposts... Only 25 percent of respondents ranked “socialist” as a desirable trait for a candidate.

From a few days ago:
U.S. Voters Don’t Want Socialist or Very Old President: Poll
Hey how about one who is BOTH!

(And by the way, for anyone who thinks Bernie is moving the overton window, that dropped to 25% from 27%)

Mention that and you'll be told Bernie is a democratic socialist not a socialist socialist, with the implication being that the former doesn't have to worry about that baggage.

Now we see that Bernie used to support seizing the means of production, even if he doesn't anymore
https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1106251433895186433

So either he's changed, or he's lying about it.

Right now the Republicans are barely attacking Bernie, they want him to win because that's their best shot in the general election (out of the major candidates). But eventually this stuff will be everywhere. He didn't get that treatment in 2016 because he wasn't the nominee, he got to go out while still popular.

But whether he's changed or he's lying, it's not going to be hard to paint him as a socialist socialist in the general election, where 25% makes Trump's 40% look like Bush post-9/11.

So whether it's because he's changed or because he "would mostly function as a social democrat" or because "he'd be too busy dealing with other shit to be nationalizing stuff"... it would never happen. But hey at least the probability Trump gets another 4 years would skyrocket, so odds are he'd never get the chance to even try!
 
Last edited:

B-Dubs

Oh well, what the hell
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
11,957
I genuinely did not see those, and I'm sure I'm not the only one. But I don't want to derail the thread, so I will take my concerns to the appropriate thread for this topic.
You can just PM me, it's fine. There was a whole big post outlining threadmarks when they launched, it got stickied and everything. Besides that, like I said, we tend to give a pretty decent buffer window for people. I won't tell you how long simply because I don't want anyone taking advantage.

EDIT: If you want to know more about threadmarks feel free to PM. I actually really like the tool as it lets an OP easily update their own thread with important information without having to edit the OP.
 
Oct 25, 2017
509
See now this is shifting goalposts... Only 25 percent of respondents ranked “socialist” as a desirable trait for a candidate.

From a few days ago:
U.S. Voters Don’t Want Socialist or Very Old President: Poll
Hey how about one who is BOTH!

(And by the way, for anyone who thinks Bernie is moving the overton window, that dropped to 25% from 27%)
I'm not sure how seriously to take polls like this when they directly contradict other polls/election results. Biden is very old and is extremely popular. Bernie is very old and is extremely popular. Trump is very old and is president.
 
Nov 7, 2017
11,713
See now this is shifting goalposts... Only 25 percent of respondents ranked “socialist” as a desirable trait for a candidate.

From a few days ago:
U.S. Voters Don’t Want Socialist or Very Old President: Poll
Hey how about one who is BOTH!

(And by the way, for anyone who thinks Bernie is moving the overton window, that dropped to 25% from 27%)

Mention that and you'll be told Bernie is a democratic socialist not a socialist socialist, with the implication being that the former doesn't have to worry about that baggage.

Now we see that Bernie used to support seizing the means of production, even if he doesn't anymore
https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1106251433895186433

So either he's changed, or he's lying about it.

Right now the Republicans are barely attacking Bernie, they want him to win because that's their best shot in the general election (out of the major candidates). But eventually this stuff will be everywhere. He didn't get that treatment in 2016 because he wasn't the nominee, he got to go out while still popular.

But whether he's changer or he's lying, it's not going to be hard to paint him as a socialist socialist in the general election, where 25% makes Trump's 40% look like Bush post-9/11.

So whether it's because he's changed or because he "would mostly function as a social democrat" or because "he'd be too busy dealing with other shit to be nationalizing stuff"... it would never happen. But hey at least the probability Trump gets another 4 years would skyrocket, so odds are he'd never get the chance to even try!
1) that link is broken

2) you keep posting the same tweet about his backstory multiple times a page
 
Jan 22, 2019
215
I'm not sure how seriously to take polls like this when they directly contradict other polls/election results. Biden is very old and is extremely popular. Bernie is very old and is extremely popular. Trump is very old and is president.
Some people get too carried away in taking polls seriously. They matter, sure, but they're not the be-all-end-all and often, as you say, just blatantly contradict the data. Hillary's entire campaign was basically built on this kind of highly "objective" data-driven campaigning where you more or less have Robbie Mook saying "we don't need to really campaign in Wisconsin or Michigan. The data!" Sometimes people think they know what they actually are willing to vote for and they're not - or vice-versa.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,466
So you're saying she would've lost to Jeb!
Yes. I believed that she'd be very likely to lose against normal candidates even during the election. I also didn't believe it was possible for voters to be so stupid as to vote in Trump rather than boring Hillary. I mean, I was a cynic when it came to voters before, but now...
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,822
Yes. I believed that she'd be very likely to lose against normal candidates even during the election. I also didn't believe it was possible for voters to be so stupid as to vote in Trump rather than boring Hillary. I mean, I was a cynic when it came to voters before, but now...
I voted for her and all but we probably saw two different things in 2016. I saw the awakening of the American Id as it manifested in Trump, Jeb! was not going to be the dude to bring it out although maybe he could've rode the wave past Clinton.
I think it was. Poor Hillary got hit with the comey surprise.
Yeah sure, just saying it's ironic when I remember how typical Dems saw Trump. Saying the Reps want Bernie is pretty strange to me. Where comes this foresight, and where was it in 2016? Did they want Bernie in 2016 as well?
 

brainchild

GameXplain
Verified
Nov 25, 2017
5,334
Minnesota
You can just PM me, it's fine. There was a whole big post outlining threadmarks when they launched, it got stickied and everything. Besides that, like I said, we tend to give a pretty decent buffer window for people. I won't tell you how long simply because I don't want anyone taking advantage.

EDIT: If you want to know more about threadmarks feel free to PM. I actually really like the tool as it lets an OP easily update their own thread with important information without having to edit the OP.
Oops. I already posted a suggestion in the new features thread before seeing this post. Sorry.
 
Oct 31, 2017
579
To be fair, Trump was probably Hillary's best chance to win.
I actually think the opposite - Trump was the only Republican who could've won in 2016 over Hillary (also yes, he would've beat Bernie because low info voters didn't know he was selling them BS and was still attempting to be less extreme on fiscal issues than most Republican's).
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,466
I voted for her and all but we probably saw two different things in 2016. I saw the awakening of the American Id as it manifested in Trump, Jeb! was not going to be the dude to bring it out although maybe he could've rode the wave past Clinton.
I saw people sitting on their asses as a four alarm fire was sounding because Abuela was a corrupt, boring old stooge who didn't "excite" them enough. You saw the same type of thing in Gore V Bush, Kerry V Bush, Dukakis etc. Except, in those cases, the Republican did better than Trump did. If the dems don't elect someone who can talk them into being excited about the future in the era of TV they lose. Bottom-line. The dems can't bring a boring policy wonk to the finish line. They're not capable of it.
 
Feb 28, 2018
1,355
I just don't see how one can make that argument that Bernie would have lost WI/MI/PA when his entire platform is attuned to appeal to those 3 states and Hillary barely lost them.

Trump won there by being against TPP, by being against NAFTA, by pretending to care about bringing jobs back, by saying he won't cut SS and Medicare etc. and Hillary did very little to push back on all that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
81
I voted for her and all but we probably saw two different things in 2016. I saw the awakening of the American Id as it manifested in Trump, Jeb! was not going to be the dude to bring it out although maybe he could've rode the wave past Clinton.

Yeah sure, just saying it's ironic when I remember how typical Dems saw Trump. Saying the Reps want Bernie is pretty strange to me. Where comes this foresight, and where was it in 2016? Did they want Bernie in 2016 as well?
Some GOP party strategists did want him to win in order to unleash the spectre of communism. This is mostly from hearsay and random articles from early in the primary though. But the GOP didn't necessarily need Bernie to win when they had decades of propaganda on Clinton and the power of racism.